Getting quicker....

[Ian JB]

Hi,

Do the top / quicker players alter setting during a race please? Setting such as brake balance or traction control?

My "K" score times are steadily improving but I am thinking that I may need to look at altering things during a race as above.

Thanks and regards.

Ian.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It's highly dependent on the combo especially tyre/fuel multipliers. The more extreme they are, the more you have to manage settings to save tyres/fuel.

TC - usually only for standing starts. Otherwise off.

BB - for quali I adjust corner by corner if needed. In the race I just stick to one setting usually (the opposite to the tyre that's going to wear the worse e.g. if you drive FF then BB +5).

Fuel Map - if no fuel saving needed leave at FM1 obviously. If there is moderate fuel saving needed, I turn it down when stuck behind someone and cannot pass (to jump them in the pits). If extreme fuel saving, I adjust corner by corner (you treat it as KERS basically - FM6 is "normal" mode and anything above is "boost" mode). Also some cars can be short shifted without losing too much speed, so that may be an easier option than fiddling with FM.

Torque Split - rarely relevant, mostly for Gr.B races. Quali usually use 50:50 split for max traction out of corners. In race usually 40:60 or 30:70 to save the fronts.

IMO, depending on your skill level, tinkering with these things too much can distract you and make you slower & get you involved in accidents more often (because you can't have the radar on at the same time). It's not going to magically make you several seconds faster, but it might help you finish ahead of that one guy that always seems to pip you. If your K score is still improving rapidly, might be best to focus on basic driving techniques first. My K score has plateaued for more than a year now, so it's worth in my case to go for these marginal gains. But by all means experiment, you never know when it might come in handy 👍

 

[CBH]

Hi,

Do the top / quicker players alter setting during a race please? Setting such as brake balance or traction control?

My "K" score times are steadily improving but I am thinking that I may need to look at altering things during a race as above.

Thanks and regards.

Ian.

Hi Ian, and if you want to improve your lap times try trail braking.

 

[Ian JB]

Hello again,

"IMO, depending on your skill level, tinkering with these things too much can distract you and make you slower & get you involved in accidents more often (because you can't have the radar on at the same time). It's not going to magically make you several seconds faster, but it might help you finish ahead of that one guy that always seems to pip you. If your K score is still improving rapidly, might be best to focus on basic driving techniques first. My K score has plateaued for more than a year now, so it's worth in my case to go for these marginal gains. But by all means experiment, you never know when it might come in handy 👍"


Excellent point and well made. Thank you.

At the moment my "K" score is a whisker below 60 and it improves by around 0.15 to 0.35 per week. Telling me - I think? - There is still much room for improvement!!! A wheel is next for me as I currently use a controller. This will almost certainly be delivered by Father Christmas this time around along with the PS5 :-)

Hello Ford - I really do need to try trail braking but I find its almost impossible with the controller set up I have. Rather than totally re-learn the control so its instinctive, I reckon that getting the wheel and rig will solve this issue - Thank you for the input though.


Regards once more.

Ian.

 

[kevinddr]

64K DR here, can basically confirm Legend's advice. ABS on (Full), TCS 0 always once you can handle it (except for starts that need it, and then you need to still switch back to 0 before shifting to avoid losing time), but I don't personally change BB during a lap practically ever. It can be advantageous at times but it's certainly not something that is going to vastly alter your times unless you're looking at top 10 quals or better. Sometimes I'll change during the race in an extreme tire wear race if I'm better/worse on wear than expected, but other than that it's mostly left at the same value (which varies both by car/track and personal preference in some cases) for a given race / qual. Of course, the qual setting might not be the same as what you want to use during the race since the race setting also needs to take into account tire wear. I've also started turning TCS on (to 5) during some lengthy FIA race qual outlaps to prevent myself from overdriving and burning tires before the flying lap, but of course it goes back to zero before the last turn of the lap. As for torque balance, honestly no idea because I practically don't ever do those races and just go with what guides recommend when I do.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

64K DR here, can basically confirm Legend's advice. ABS on (Full), TCS 0 always once you can handle it (except for starts that need it, and then you need to still switch back to 0 before shifting to avoid losing time), but I don't personally change BB during a lap practically ever. It can be advantageous at times but it's certainly not something that is going to vastly alter your times unless you're looking at top 10 quals or better. Sometimes I'll change during the race in an extreme tire wear race if I'm better/worse on wear than expected, but other than that it's mostly left at the same value (which varies both by car/track and personal preference in some cases) for a given race / qual. Of course, the qual setting might not be the same as what you want to use during the race since the race setting also needs to take into account tire wear. I've also started turning TCS on (to 5) during some lengthy FIA race qual outlaps to prevent myself from overdriving and burning tires before the flying lap, but of course it goes back to zero before the last turn of the lap. As for torque balance, honestly no idea because I practically don't ever do those races and just go with what guides recommend when I do.

Yes the changing BB is really only for a few tenths per lap, and only for some tracks. Like Maggiore for example, I use +1 for T1-4 and the banked hairpin, and +5 for everything else. Bathurst I use rear bias going uphill, and front bias downhill. Granted, an alien will still beat my time without any adjustments so that's why I said only do it once you've hit your skill ceiling.

Good point for quali. I don't see TC as that beneficial tbh, I just drive really slowly on the outlap, being careful to minimise any wheelspin and tyre squeal.

 

[NevilleNobody]

BB is pretty subtle, you will gain more time trying to carry more mid corner speed i reakon,

 

[Ian JB]

Yes the changing BB is really only for a few tenths per lap, and only for some tracks. Like Maggiore for example, I use +1 for T1-4 and the banked hairpin, and +5 for everything else.

The above is exactly what I am wondering about... A few tenths would make a massive difference to my time(s)! Even thinking about this during a race is beyond my current level of ability. Executing this kind of adjustment is another level altogether.

Regards.

Ian.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

The above is exactly what I am wondering about... A few tenths would make a massive difference to my time(s)! Even thinking about this during a race is beyond my current level of ability. Executing this kind of adjustment is another level altogether.

Regards.

Ian.

Race an offline race and try making the adjustments on the fly. I find the hardest part is remembering to get back to the radar HUD. If you are like me you started with AT, moved on to MT by practicing in offline races, no different here.

 

[NSP525]

I think you'll find more pace in being consistent then trying to make these adjustments mid lap or over a race tbh. I know for what I can achieve over one lap that if I was trying to optimize BB also I'd probably just be inviting myself to make a mistake which is already easy enough when your pushing the limits for laptime. Getting rotated and initiating forward momentum out of corners is crucial to finding laptime along with consistent braking. I tend to be more conservative on the brakes and to try to hit my apexes at the right speed and get on throttle as early as possible. It's so easy to over drive the car and lose time everywhere, you need smooth consistent inputs. Sure there are appropriate times in races to change BB for tire wear sake but otherwise I usually set it and forget it.

 

[breeminator]

Executing this kind of adjustment is another level altogether.

With a TGT it's easy. Forget it with a Fanatec CSL, though, it's too easy to accidentally move the tiny joystick in a direction other than that intended.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

BB is pretty subtle, you will gain more time trying to carry more mid corner speed i reakon,

That's just as helpful as saying "just drive faster".

We're all trying to drive as fast as we can. What Ian is trying to ask is whether there are any improvements to be gained from adjusting these settings. I gave my answer, and also put a disclaimer saying depending on your skill level, this sort of stuff may be beyond your concentration level so focus on basic techniques first.

The above is exactly what I am wondering about... A few tenths would make a massive difference to my time(s)! Even thinking about this during a race is beyond my current level of ability. Executing this kind of adjustment is another level altogether.

Regards.

Ian.

It's all just practice and experience at the end of the day. I've been playing this game for 3 years now, memorised every track and driven every car, so the driving part is all just muscle memory. It leaves my mind free to think of making adjustments, racecraft, strategy and other stuff during a race. It's not easy at first, but with time it becomes second nature (just like switching from AT to MT for example). And yes, having the T-GT with its rotary dials help. If you're using a controller it's a lot more complicated because you don't have as many buttons.

The video that inspired me to learn fuel map mixing. After mastering it, I went from rank 20 ish to finish rank 7th in the Supra Cup last year in Oceania.


The pros in real life do it too


Lewis Hamilton in the GT Sport Finals 2019 explaining how he approaches a quali lap:

"A lot of the drivers don't spend time with manoeuvres in terms of the adjustments. I think Ferrari has a flick on the back of their steering wheel, but I move a lot.

"In each corner there’s a limitation to what you can do. If you're going to be [at] very high speed, you have a lot of downforce on some of the corners, so you have more slip when the brake balance is further forward at the front end. Or at some corners you have more on the rear end, like Brazil for example. Let me take you through a lap of Interlagos.

"So Turn 1 I have the brake balance I think like 56%, and we have brake migration and engine braking. So I have those three all set. I go through Turns 1, 2, 3 and coming out of Turn 3 I adjust my engine braking one step up, move my brake migration one step forward. And then I'm going to move my brake balance forwards and really, really quick.

"Then you go through Turns 4, 5, 6, and 7, and just before you get to Turn 8 I move the brake balance rearwards because you put a lot of temperature in the front tyres as you come through, so you don't want front-locking.

"Then go through Turn 8 and 9 and, as you go from Turn 9 to 10, you have to move the brake balance rearwards again, and also the migration rearwards because this is a really tight corner.

"Then coming out of Turn 10, through Turn 11 and down to Turn 12, I move the brake balance forwards. As we come into the last corner, again it's all about the exit.

"I'm constantly trying to explore. You have to be able to focus on hitting the apexes and the braking points perfectly, and adjusting these things has taken a lot of time to practice. You have to have extra bandwidth, you know, in your focus region, to be able to do those and get them perfect."

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/lewis-hamilton-secrets-driving-success/4603178/

 

[Ian JB]

Hi,

Thank you for the input - ALL of it! :-)

I have found that I am "overdriving" especially when the dander / red mist is on. I am also massively *"overbraking" - This weeks Fuji has shown me that. I guess I still have much to learn.

I am over 2 seconds inside my "K" time at Fuji though, so progress is being made. That said its like trying to wrestle a bag of jelly and wild piglets around the circuit!!!

* Is there such a thing as "overbraking"?

Best regards to all here.

Ian.

 

[Groundfish]

I mean come on now. Sure Lewis Hamilton adjusts things on the fly IRL.
That’s got nothing to do with us at all. The real life reasons for that don’t apply in GTS, further no one here can sniff Hamilton.
My 2 cents-work on coordinating your steering braking and throttle.
Read Ultimate Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley if you truly want some fundamentally sound knowledge and technique which you can then apply.
Forget adjusting bb on the fly, there’s way more to be gained from applying fundamentally correct race driving techniques and having an understanding of how to make time on a given track.
Fix the inputs you are applying. Everyone in this game has room for improvement on those.
You’re not gonna find anything by bb adjustment on fly. However understanding fundamentally WHAT HOW and WHY regarding the brake steering and throttle inputs will lead you to a point where you have no limits except your own ability and practice time to invest.
My 2 cents.

 

[NSP525]

Over braking is a thing. It's very easy to lose and gain laptime on the brakes. 100% brake pressure is usually too much beyond initial application on the brakes, you don't want to have the abs going off like crazy or else your not slowing down as quickly and efficiently as you could be. If your on a wheel you can almost get a feel for how the front tires and the front of the car loads up when your entering a corner with the right amount of speed and trailing off the brakes while turning in. Initially I apply probably 90% brake pressure and right away back that out slightly closer to 80% and then trail out as needed while turning in. Stabbing the brakes to 100% will unsettle the car too much and ruin your turn in and line on a lot of higher speed finess corners, sometimes a lot of high speed corners can be braked for later with a lot less pressure on the brake pedal than you would think, this let's you have more grip from the tire for turning in. You have to balance the slip of the tire between braking, and turning in. Same goes for getting on the throttle, you can only ask so much of the tires with steering lock applied.

Just one of those things that really develops over time with practice but my main take away with braking is that a lot the time less can be more if you know what I mean.

 

[kilesa4568]

You’re not gonna find anything by bb adjustment on fly.

Once you're used to it you will. My main reason to use it is to try and give myself more grip towards the end of the race by limiting a lot of tyre scrubbing but it gives you a much more malleable car in balls to the wall qualifying too.

Not hard to switch it around as you only need it for certain corners and have plenty of time to set it before you reach them.

 

[O604]

I found Fuji in the Crown this week was a good exercise in early throttle release.

In a way, got quicker through the week with slower entries. Anticipating the momentum of the car I felt was key.

Also made me notice how much better my G29 brake pedal could be compared to a button. I think I could have a better time if I had more precise brake pedal control in the 50-100% range. Makes me wonder, on a G29, what would BB do anyways?

 

[Groundfish]

To me bb stock at 0 is balanced right for most gr3 and 4.
Bb sets up which tires lockup first
Irl in an mr car the safest thing is setup the fronts to lock first. Setting too far rearward could make the rears lock first leading to spins and much danger.
Now, that being said on race B this week I found to get better turn in from the 911 I had to move the bb rearward a few clicks because with my driving style I couldn’t get the rotation I was looking for on bb0.
It’s probably not getting off brake soon enough and being a little late on the brakes-a technique issue, but I ended up masking that with bb adjustment and just had better luck not overloading the fronts turning in.
To me there’s a huge difference in ABS weak over default also, IF you can modulate the input very well.
Abs default can be an understeer generator in many scenarios, but in others it’s the best option. Jmo but the 911 all understeer like pigs to my style on default abs, at least those I’ve driven. The RSR is capable of waaaay more than I can get out on abs weak, but weak is way more responsive.
Being able to notice the differences is predicated on being able to apply precise inputs.
To me it’s best to leave things exactly stock 90 percent of time on gr3/4 and get better at input control.
That’s where I’m personally at with it.
I can’t say I can drive a track perfectly input wise so my focus is there.
Bb for tire wear mid race as Kilesa said I could see but per corner wow for me it’s not a case where I drive the corner perfect every time to begin with so it’s pointless for me jmo

 

[kilesa4568]

but per corner...

An adjustment isn't needed in every corner. Just the corners where it's shown to help.

 

[kungtotte_]

Eh, the time gained per lap by adjusting the BB on the fly over the course of said lap is really minimal. One or two tenths, maybe? Sure that's an improvement, but if you're not one or two tenths away from improving your position on the top-10 board you really have no business worrying about on-the-fly adjustments of BB before you work on all that other stuff like @Groundfish says.

I will evaluate a car in the first 10 or so laps on a track and test different BB settings to find one I'm comfortable with and then stick with that over the course of a race.

Sometimes adjusting it to account for tyrewear over a longer stint is appropriate, but that's one adjustment at one time in a whole stint as opposed to several times over a lap every lap.

 

[CBH]

Ian test this for yourself do a Time Trial lap with your fasters time with BB number you like for that car, but and leave it as it is during that lap. Now do a Time Trial lap with the same car and track and adjusting the BB during the lap and see if it makes you quicker, than not changing BB during the lap.

 

[Ian JB]

Hello again,

"I found Fuji in the Crown this week was a good exercise in early throttle release."

- Wow! So did I. I have improved sooooo much this week. Very pleased with myself I can tell you! I reckon I have gained around 1.5 - 2.0 seconds this week on my "test" tracks and setups. Less braking, Later and earlier throttle. This forum is a gold mine of help and information - Thank you all for the input. It really is greatly appreciated!!!

Hello Ford - I have also been playing with Brake Balance - This has also improved things for me. While I am not adjusting it during a race I have gone from + to - 5 in stages - Corr Blimey O'Reilly - What a difference it makes huh? Wait... Oh yeah... You knew that already! Duh!

:-)

Brilliant stuff. Cheers Folks.

Ian.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I mean come on now. Sure Lewis Hamilton adjusts things on the fly IRL.
That’s got nothing to do with us at all. The real life reasons for that don’t apply in GTS, further no one here can sniff Hamilton.
My 2 cents-work on coordinating your steering braking and throttle.
Read Ultimate Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley if you truly want some fundamentally sound knowledge and technique which you can then apply.
Forget adjusting bb on the fly, there’s way more to be gained from applying fundamentally correct race driving techniques and having an understanding of how to make time on a given track.
Fix the inputs you are applying. Everyone in this game has room for improvement on those.
You’re not gonna find anything by bb adjustment on fly. However understanding fundamentally WHAT HOW and WHY regarding the brake steering and throttle inputs will lead you to a point where you have no limits except your own ability and practice time to invest.
My 2 cents.

No one can sniff Hamilton in real life, but have you seen the LH Challenge leaderboards? Plenty of people faster than LH in the game, because the game isn't real life.

Yes, an F1 car is completely different. But the key concepts are the same. Some corners you want more braking force (BB front), some corners you want more rotation (BB back). You don't have to drive every corner perfect to derive an advantage from it. Even if it's only 0.1 sec, you take it because it's there.

If you read my first post, you'll also note that I only change every corner for quali (and not for every track either). In a race I just stuck to one setting usually.

Everyone will hit a limit on their accuracy eventually, no matter how much time you practice. When that time comes, you start looking for gains from all these extra little things because they are easier to do than just improving your driving alone. Doesn't mean you stop trying to improve, but they both go hand-in-hand. Whether you are at that point already or not, only you can answer. I don't know your K score or DR. I can only give Ian tips that I know for myself have worked.

Speed Secrets is a good resource, also Driver61 YT channel, Tidgney's channel and SAFEisFAST. Personally, they all say the same thing at the end of the day. If you know racing lines, trail braking and focusing on exit you know 99% of it. The rest is just variations on that and improving your accuracy. You can also learn a lot from watching top aliens' streams like Hizal/Fraga, on how they manage the race (e.g. not battling too much too early, saving fuel and tyres, reading the race and using alternative strategies etc).

Anyway, I think Ian has plenty to chew on from this thread already. At the end of the day is all practice and experimenting yourself but most importantly don't forget to have fun too. Not everyone can win the world championship but everyone can have FUN Good luck Ian 👍

 

[Groundfish]

Sorry I dared to offer the opinion what do I know anyways I’m not world number one.

 

[kilesa4568]

Nobody has to use it but it's there if you need it.

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

Hi,

Do the top / quicker players alter setting during a race please? Setting such as brake balance or traction control?

My "K" score times are steadily improving but I am thinking that I may need to look at altering things during a race as above.

Thanks and regards.

Ian.

Not near a top/quickest driver but to answer you yes. The couple guys I watch track guides on and a few other better racers and I always see them break balance suggested and traction control is usually off but that takes A while to work up to. Check YouTube pages from Mistah_MCA and Tidgney. Study there driving lines, shift points, etc. if your in America’s region you can almost find Mistah_MCA in the top 10 and then download it goes then follow that around after you study that’s what I do with those two guys and Improve my lap times greatly from 1 to 5 seconds I’m usually about that far away from three years about my average good luck I hope that helps

 

[NevilleNobody]

That's just as helpful as saying "just drive faster".

We're all trying to drive as fast as we can.

No, it's not. Taking time to learn the ability to tweak on the fly can be used to try more traditional techniques to gain time.

 

[NSP525]

If your on a wheel setup I have a suggestion that may or may not be possible with your equipment. I have a fanatec CSL elite and by far one of the best things I've done with it especially for GTS is turn on the ABS vibration in the wheel base and set it for 100% brake pressure. This way when I apply 100% brake pressure I get a vibration in the wheelbase to let me know that I'm over doing it. This has been useful for me and taught me better brake control in GTS.

 

[Ian JB]

Hi,

O.M.G ( Ohhh my great auntie Elsie's... Fill in your own expletive / superlative / idea here! )

I can't even begin to explain how grateful I am for all your, respective, comments. I have learned more in a week than I had in the previous 2 years!

I have been overbraking, oversteering, overdriving and over just about everything other than a quick lap! I am almost too ashamed to admit that I totally misunderstood the brake balance idea - I have had it set 100% wrong before this week. Steering / Apex's - Yup! Missed school that day. Throttle control - Looks like its been a big fat zero all this time - Thanks to Mistah_MCA on this one!!!

Its not bragging, I assure you - Its a thank you... I have just reached 100% in the offline challenges, missions and experiences - All thanks to people here. Only a few weeks ago, I would have described a lap ( gold ) of Nurbgring as impossible for me - Not anymore.

To all here - Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Very best regards and seasons greetings. May you all stay happy, safe, warm and well fed.... Ohh and quick too!!!! :-)

Ian.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Glad you found it helpful Ian 👍

No, it's not. Taking time to learn the ability to tweak on the fly can be used to try more traditional techniques to gain time.

Not really, the timescales we're talking about are completely different here.

Brake balance - there are 11 settings so you only need 11 laps to test each (30 mins max for most tracks). In that time you also learn the track and car naturally.
Fuel map - took me a week to master this for the Supra Cup last year. Sure every car and track is different, but once you get the concept it's easily transferable.
Improving technique - I've been playing racing games 20+ years, chasing leaderboards for 10 years. Gap in GT Academy 2010 was ~3.5 sec. Current gap to pole in top split usually ~2 sec on an average track. So gain is roughly 1.5 sec in 10 years. Maybe I'm just rubbish, but there are more people below me in the leaderboards than above so I doubt it.

Do you see what I mean? Yes you need time to learn BB/FM switching, but in the grand scheme of things it's nothing. You can keep improving your traditional techniques in the background. It's just another facet to your technique, no different than taking the time to learn how to drive FF cars vs FR cars for example. You can have your cake and eat it too.