Getting quicker....

[kilesa4568]

No, it's not. Taking time to learn the ability to tweak on the fly can be used to try more traditional techniques to gain time.

What are your 'traditional techniques'?

Current gap to pole in top split usually ~2 sec on an average track.

I'm at the same level and have given up trying to find more time. I'd have to pinch more curb, use the safety buffer foot of track I usually leave and to keep things nice and calm on the exit, I'm always a slow blink behind on the throttle. Dipping into the aggregate 2/10ths I lose per corner is beyond me but I'm more than happy with the pace I'm at. Plenty of time to day dream and mess with settings plus the constant pace leaves me more time for decisions. Bliss.

 

[Groundfish]

Yes, an F1 car is completely different. But the key concepts are the same. Some corners you want more braking force (BB front), some corners you want more rotation (BB back). You don't have to drive every corner perfect to derive an advantage from it. Even if it's only 0.1 sec, you take it because it's there.

If you read my first post, you'll also note that I only change every corner for quali (and not for every track either). In a race I just stuck to one setting usually.

Everyone will hit a limit on their accuracy eventually, no matter how much time you practice. When that time comes, you start looking for gains from all these extra little things because they are easier to do than just improving your driving alone. Doesn't mean you stop trying to improve, but they both go hand-in-hand. Whether you are at that point already or not, only you can answer. I don't know your K score or DR. I can only give Ian tips that I know for myself have worked.

Speed Secrets is a good resource, also Driver61 YT channel, Tidgney's channel and SAFEisFAST. Personally, they all say the same thing at the end of the day. If you know racing lines, trail braking and focusing on exit you know 99% of it. The rest is just variations on that and improving your accuracy. You can also learn a lot from watching top aliens' streams like Hizal/Fraga, on how they manage the race (e.g. not battling too much too early, saving fuel and tyres, reading the race and using alternative strategies etc).

I’ve had better luck starting from ground zero in this game doing as I mentioned in post 14.
My goal isn’t to have “more braking force on some turns and more rotation on others”
Personally my goal is to drive the limit. The vast majority of people don’t understand what that means. I came to this game not having played a racing game since ridge racer ps1.
By doing what I said in post 14 I’ve had tremendous success in this game. It’s taken a lot of time but I’ve developed a (probably, hopefully) lifelong hobby moving forward.
I have ended up doing things in a way that includes a whole common list of sim gaming “Don’ts”
I don’t left foot brake, I use default tcs 98 percent of the time even on qual because it makes me more consistent and faster. I use cockpit view only. Often I’m running weak Abs or in rare cases no abs (very rare). On racecars I run bb0 almost exclusively.
So, for myself it’s as @NevilleNobody said, traditional (fundamentally sound real world technique with inputs and driving the limit) means to get times and succeed in online sport mode.
I can only point to what works for myself, and post my opinion.
It’s fun, sim gaming, and everyone has an iron in the fire, everyone has “their way”
Truly it’s all good and all about fun as you pointed out.

Cheers

 

[P4man]

Over braking is a thing. It's very easy to lose and gain laptime on the brakes. 100% brake pressure is usually too much beyond initial application on the brakes, you don't want to have the abs going off like crazy or else your not slowing down as quickly and efficiently as you could be. If your on a wheel you can almost get a feel for how the front tires and the front of the car loads up when your entering a corner with the right amount of speed and trailing off the brakes while turning in. Initially I apply probably 90% brake pressure and right away back that out slightly closer to 80% and then trail out as needed while turning in. Stabbing the brakes to 100% will unsettle the car too much and ruin your turn in and line on a lot of higher speed finess corners, sometimes a lot of high speed corners can be braked for later with a lot less pressure on the brake pedal than you would think, this let's you have more grip from the tire for turning in. You have to balance the slip of the tire between braking, and turning in. Same goes for getting on the throttle, you can only ask so much of the tires with steering lock applied.

Just one of those things that really develops over time with practice but my main take away with braking is that a lot the time less can be more if you know what I mean.

This is something I've really been working on myself. I've been working on the endurance races offline the past couple weeks and going lap after lap I've been able to see the effect (Affect?) my braking points and pressures can make. I upgraded my pedal spring (Logitech) to the stiffer GTeye one a while ago and this really helped me control things. Alsace seems to be a great track to demonstrate effective braking, especially in the final 2 turns.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I’ve had better luck starting from ground zero in this game doing as I mentioned in post 14.
My goal isn’t to have “more braking force on some turns and more rotation on others”
Personally my goal is to drive the limit. The vast majority of people don’t understand what that means. I came to this game not having played a racing game since ridge racer ps1.
By doing what I said in post 14 I’ve had tremendous success in this game. It’s taken a lot of time but I’ve developed a (probably, hopefully) lifelong hobby moving forward.
I have ended up doing things in a way that includes a whole common list of sim gaming “Don’ts”
I don’t left foot brake, I use default tcs 98 percent of the time even on qual because it makes me more consistent and faster. I use cockpit view only. Often I’m running weak Abs or in rare cases no abs (very rare). On racecars I run bb0 almost exclusively.
So, for myself it’s as @NevilleNobody said, traditional (fundamentally sound real world technique with inputs and driving the limit) means to get times and succeed in online sport mode.
I can only point to what works for myself, and post my opinion.
It’s fun, sim gaming, and everyone has an iron in the fire, everyone has “their way”
Truly it’s all good and all about fun as you pointed out.

Cheers

Well driving on the limit starts with braking. If your braking isn't right, the rest of the corner and the whole of the next straight will be compromised. Again, I don't know how fast you are, what other games you play, or what real life fast driving experience you have, but a lot of what you say doesn't make sense to be honest. But hey, if it works for you, then go for it

Left vs right foot brake is preference really. I LFB in game (RFB in real life) but I know a lot of fast drivers who do either.

TCS - nobody in the top tiers use it except for standing starts. It just slows you down period. Yes some real cars have TCS, but the TCS in GT is a very rough tool and nothing like the sophisticated systems in these cars. If you've driven ACC, you'll understand what I mean. The TCS in that game is a performance tool. In GT, it's just a crutch.

Cockpit view - again it's preference, but most top drivers use bumper or roof. Unless you use VR or triple screen, cockpit view is just way too restrictive on a single flat plane screen and doesn't give you the same awareness as real life.

ABS - again most top drivers use Default. Weak is maybe useful on karts and rally, but otherwise you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage without it. The ABS in GT also has hidden stability assists so you can brake later, harder and more stable than without. Also the threshold for locking is way too sensitive in GTS (weird because they had this correct in GT6), with no way to adjust brake pressure. So ABS off, even in cars that don't have ABS, is just unrealistic and slower.

BB - we've been through this ad infinitum so I'll leave it here.

Not antagonizing you here, but I think it's important when you give tips to give correct ones. Otherwise newcomers and other people might get confused. If you're happy with the way you drive that's okay, but just let others know your style is unorthodox

 

[kungtotte_]

I mean, it's not correct to tell people to do corner-by-corner adjustments of BB in order to find time. If you want to get picky with it, that is.

That's literally only true if you're hunting for the last tenths in top-10 territory. Before that point you will find half a second to several seconds working on other areas of your driving first.

And I think it's interesting that every piece of literature on going faster around a track puts braking further down the list than almost every other aspect of going fast, yet you think going faster starts with braking.

Correct tips indeed...

 

[Yard_Sale]

If your on a wheel setup I have a suggestion that may or may not be possible with your equipment. I have a fanatec CSL elite and by far one of the best things I've done with it especially for GTS is turn on the ABS vibration in the wheel base and set it for 100% brake pressure. This way when I apply 100% brake pressure I get a vibration in the wheelbase to let me know that I'm over doing it. This has been useful for me and taught me better brake control in GTS.

how and where do you make this adjustment on the csl elite wheelbase?

 

[NSP525]

how and where do you make this adjustment on the csl elite wheelbase?

It's the ABS setting in your tuning menu, is usually set to off default I believe. It's meant mostly for the v3 pedals that vibrate but it also makes the wheelbase vibrate. You can set it from 0-100 and all it does is start vibrating the wheelbase at the desired setpoint of brake pressure.

 

[Groundfish]

Well driving on the limit starts with braking. If your braking isn't right, the rest of the corner and the whole of the next straight will be compromised. Again, I don't know how fast you are, what other games you play, or what real life fast driving experience you have, but a lot of what you say doesn't make sense to be honest. But hey, if it works for you, then go for it

Left vs right foot brake is preference really. I LFB in game (RFB in real life) but I know a lot of fast drivers who do either.

TCS - nobody in the top tiers use it except for standing starts. It just slows you down period. Yes some real cars have TCS, but the TCS in GT is a very rough tool and nothing like the sophisticated systems in these cars. If you've driven ACC, you'll understand what I mean. The TCS in that game is a performance tool. In GT, it's just a crutch.

Cockpit view - again it's preference, but most top drivers use bumper or roof. Unless you use VR or triple screen, cockpit view is just way too restrictive on a single flat plane screen and doesn't give you the same awareness as real life.

ABS - again most top drivers use Default. Weak is maybe useful on karts and rally, but otherwise you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage without it. The ABS in GT also has hidden stability assists so you can brake later, harder and more stable than without. Also the threshold for locking is way too sensitive in GTS (weird because they had this correct in GT6), with no way to adjust brake pressure. So ABS off, even in cars that don't have ABS, is just unrealistic and slower.

BB - we've been through this ad infinitum so I'll leave it here.

Not antagonizing you here, but I think it's important when you give tips to give correct ones. Otherwise newcomers and other people might get confused. If you're happy with the way you drive that's okay, but just let others know your style is unorthodox

Lol ok man. Happy Holidays.
Happy Holidays to Ross Bentley too.
Lol ‘correct tips’
Lmao ok man rock on

 

[kilesa4568]

Does Ross Bentley's book have a chapter for people who've already learned decent potentiometer based throttle and brake, have no need for a restrictive traction control and can show a certain game's cockpit view can be detrimental to overall performance? I'll grab a copy if it does.

Minimizing the time you spend braking is the easiest way to improve lap times though. Look at the top time to see what's possible with brake markers and adjust it (lengthen it) to your ability till you can consistently hit your clipping point to maximize the exit. The closer you can get to their brake marker, the less time you'll lose but they have a real fluidity and confidence in their best lap that maximizes their car and talent. I have to add at least 10 meters to each.

 

[Groundfish]

All I’m sharing is what’s worked for me to start with this game. I haven’t played any other GT game and the last racing game I played was the original Ridge Racer years ago on the original PlayStation.
When I began getting into racecars on this game I was running the RS01 in gr3 before they added weight to it under the bop change.
Unfortunately for myself I took the let’s call it conventional advice ie no tcs braking late is where there’s time...
Yes I had some success but I soon realized I needed to work on fundamentals. I bought Ultimate Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, and studied it and became A plus from B on NA.
I’ve finished top quarter many times in DR2 dailies including in the group B Audi-I DONT have stages memorized and those are one shot deals no silly infinite retries as GTS allows in tt and qual.
In DR2 you get one chance. I’ve played all the games. Gts is the best circuit game because playerbase, and it’s the most fair, no tuning bs. Sure ACC drove great at first before they nerfed the ffb but on console it looks like crud and the crummy port was just a cash grab. Not to mention no playerbase to speak of within ping range for me.
The reason I was able to succeed in GTS getting to top 1percent on my server is understanding, both of how to make time in race which is NOT late braking every corner as I’ve said before.
Both you and the other hater above essentially paraphrased pretty much every comment I’ve ever made re braking which I paraphrased from Bentley.
Most in GTS on NA rely 100 percent on default abs and the braking point determines everything about the cars attitude in concert with bb adjustment. It’s one reason they have such trouble racing clean. All they know is that. No ability to modulate braking or change line dynamically or use good racecraft. Of course not! They don’t know what that is lol.
That’s great, fine for time trial, time trial is not what I focus on personally. I mean going round and round trying for pixel perfect to me is a necessary evil of the way online racing is in GTS.
GTS has more depth than is often alluded to by guys who “played every GT game ever and in gt games tcs defacto slows you down and should never be used”
The common thought is just copy a top ten or you tube and it’s all about a tt time.
None of that is truly helpful in race, and it shows when you go online at average levels and just see the reality there.
I get most younger people can’t be bothered to start from step one and learn the basics but I post the real truth just in case there’s folks that might benefit from understanding real racing fundamentals.
I read Alain Prosts book when I was about fifteen, have family history in real racing not video games.
I just find it funny how many people I beat online just like I did last night in FIA top split who spin slide and crash using no tcs.
The tcs implementation in game is actually quite good, which I point out.
I can go no TCS just fine, I have many times and can do it in any car, but it’s not the best way to race in many cases.
Other things determine times much more than tcs.
If you race online in NA every race people will lose time because no tcs every race people end up crashing no tcs, even in top rooms. It’s anyone’s choice what to do but it’s my contention for 99 percent of people tcs is going to help them once they work with it.
Yes, if you are making massive mistakes every lap and don’t understand the fundamentals taught by Bentley in his book then no TCS will probably make you faster-like say for an average B or low A NA server player.
This is because the mistakes made trigger TCS to limit power. Now, if you UNDERSTAND how it works and have fundamental understanding of tires and car balance and racing lines you can then realize WHILE DRIVING where those mistakes are and correct them and improve.
Most young people today aren’t interested in that though.
They want the quick you tube turn off a setting get 4 tenths and call it good.
That doesn’t improve their understanding though or provide a path to improvement long term.
Imo improving long term provides enjoyment and betters the online community.
Ridiculing a guy you don’t know and whatnot as both you and Legend have done just pisses people off and really helps no one long term.
It’s just keyboard warrior trash.
I reccomend Bentley because it’s just the truth.
He’s honest. I learned his info and BOOM straight up to top 1 percent.
Thanks Ross Bentley!
I like sharing the truth with others, but some here don’t like it.
It’s an ego thing with them. More interested in appearances than results or sharing truth and promoting learning.
Makes me sad. Literally every race I am in I see people drinking the no tcs kool aid as they hit the wall, hit other cars, explore the sand trap, slide too much losing exit speed, try to late brake and miss apex etc etc etc, usually in the RSR gr3.
LOL

 

[kungtotte_]

Take a look at a top 10 replay with a stopwatch handy. Run the clock each time you see them braking and leave it paused when the brakes aren't engaged, at the end of the lap look at the stopwatch versus the laptime.

Then think about where you stand to gain the most time if you improve. The 15 seconds you spend braking or the 75 seconds you spend accelerating?

Gain hundredths by shortening your braking distance at the end of a straight, or gain tenths by accelerating earlier, hmm...

 

[kilesa4568]

Gain hundredths by shortening your braking distance at the end of a straight, or gain tenths by accelerating earlier, hmm...

Corner speed is kinda important too.

 

[NSP525]

I would say there are tenths in every hard braking zone not hundredths myself. That being said, proper trail braking will allow you to brake later, carry better overall corner speed and maintain proper apex speed. If your sacrificing in braking it doesn't matter about getting on the power earlier, you have to be doing it all near max potential for it to add up to the point where changing BB corner by corner would actually gain you anything.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I mean, it's not correct to tell people to do corner-by-corner adjustments of BB in order to find time. If you want to get picky with it, that is.

That's literally only true if you're hunting for the last tenths in top-10 territory. Before that point you will find half a second to several seconds working on other areas of your driving first.

And I think it's interesting that every piece of literature on going faster around a track puts braking further down the list than almost every other aspect of going fast, yet you think going faster starts with braking.

Correct tips indeed...

You didn't read my earlier posts mate, I literally said 3-4 times in this thread already: only mess around with BB if you are close to your personal limit, and every tenth improvement only comes by from doing hundreds of laps. Then BB adjustments become meaningful. I didn't advertise it as a magic bullet either, it's only a tenth here and there, and only for some cars/tracks combos.

Your K' score is currently 46, DR D, so yes in your case there are still LOADS of time to be gained from tidying up your basic techniques. Forget fiddling about BB/TC/FM.
https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=4465485

As for the braking comment, well I don't know what literature you've been reading. Braking is important, apex speed is important, using the whole track is important, accelerating early is important. Racecraft, strategy, mental management, tyre/fuel management, everything is important to do well in a race. But no matter how you drive, a corner always starts by braking.

Spoiler

All I’m sharing is what’s worked for me to start with this game. I haven’t played any other GT game and the last racing game I played was the original Ridge Racer years ago on the original PlayStation.
When I began getting into racecars on this game I was running the RS01 in gr3 before they added weight to it under the bop change.
Unfortunately for myself I took the let’s call it conventional advice ie no tcs braking late is where there’s time...
Yes I had some success but I soon realized I needed to work on fundamentals. I bought Ultimate Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley, and studied it and became A plus from B on NA.
I’ve finished top quarter many times in DR2 dailies including in the group B Audi-I DONT have stages memorized and those are one shot deals no silly infinite retries as GTS allows in tt and qual.
In DR2 you get one chance. I’ve played all the games. Gts is the best circuit game because playerbase, and it’s the most fair, no tuning bs. Sure ACC drove great at first before they nerfed the ffb but on console it looks like crud and the crummy port was just a cash grab. Not to mention no playerbase to speak of within ping range for me.
The reason I was able to succeed in GTS getting to top 1percent on my server is understanding, both of how to make time in race which is NOT late braking every corner as I’ve said before.
Both you and the other hater above essentially paraphrased pretty much every comment I’ve ever made re braking which I paraphrased from Bentley.
Most in GTS on NA rely 100 percent on default abs and the braking point determines everything about the cars attitude in concert with bb adjustment. It’s one reason they have such trouble racing clean. All they know is that. No ability to modulate braking or change line dynamically or use good racecraft. Of course not! They don’t know what that is lol.
That’s great, fine for time trial, time trial is not what I focus on personally. I mean going round and round trying for pixel perfect to me is a necessary evil of the way online racing is in GTS.
GTS has more depth than is often alluded to by guys who “played every GT game ever and in gt games tcs defacto slows you down and should never be used”
The common thought is just copy a top ten or you tube and it’s all about a tt time.
None of that is truly helpful in race, and it shows when you go online at average levels and just see the reality there.
I get most younger people can’t be bothered to start from step one and learn the basics but I post the real truth just in case there’s folks that might benefit from understanding real racing fundamentals.
I read Alain Prosts book when I was about fifteen, have family history in real racing not video games.
I just find it funny how many people I beat online just like I did last night in FIA top split who spin slide and crash using no tcs.
The tcs implementation in game is actually quite good, which I point out.
I can go no TCS just fine, I have many times and can do it in any car, but it’s not the best way to race in many cases.
Other things determine times much more than tcs.
If you race online in NA every race people will lose time because no tcs every race people end up crashing no tcs, even in top rooms. It’s anyone’s choice what to do but it’s my contention for 99 percent of people tcs is going to help them once they work with it.
Yes, if you are making massive mistakes every lap and don’t understand the fundamentals taught by Bentley in his book then no TCS will probably make you faster-like say for an average B or low A NA server player.
This is because the mistakes made trigger TCS to limit power. Now, if you UNDERSTAND how it works and have fundamental understanding of tires and car balance and racing lines you can then realize WHILE DRIVING where those mistakes are and correct them and improve.
Most young people today aren’t interested in that though.
They want the quick you tube turn off a setting get 4 tenths and call it good.
That doesn’t improve their understanding though or provide a path to improvement long term.
Imo improving long term provides enjoyment and betters the online community.
Ridiculing a guy you don’t know and whatnot as both you and Legend have done just pisses people off and really helps no one long term.
It’s just keyboard warrior trash.
I reccomend Bentley because it’s just the truth.
He’s honest. I learned his info and BOOM straight up to top 1 percent.
Thanks Ross Bentley!
I like sharing the truth with others, but some here don’t like it.
It’s an ego thing with them. More interested in appearances than results or sharing truth and promoting learning.
Makes me sad. Literally every race I am in I see people drinking the no tcs kool aid as they hit the wall, hit other cars, explore the sand trap, slide too much losing exit speed, try to late brake and miss apex etc etc etc, usually in the RSR gr3.
LOL

Honestly mate, your posts are very hard to read. Breaking them up into paragraphs might do you a lot of good.

It seems to me you're confusing people who just can't drive/race cleanly as the same as those who don't use TCS Don't know what to say really.

I do follow Ross Bentley, one of the videos I linked above is from him directly. But it doesn't mean you can apply everything he said to GT 100%, because this game isn't reality and there are quirks in the physics engine that are different. Like go tell real life mechanics that to reduce understeer, you raise front ride height and slam the rears, see how they react

You're saying ACC FFB is crud, when every other person who actually understands, knows it is light years ahead of what is in GTS. I agree the console port looks bad, but that shouldn't affect your judgment of the physics/FFB.

I don't know why you brought up DR2 either.

You're saying I'm a keyboard warrior, but I'm not the one writing huge walls of text going round and round with no clear concise topic, full of anecdotes and no clear evidence to back it up. It's all good saying you're in top 1%, you won top split FIA etcetera. Just give us a link to your kudosprime page, and we can talk on the same page.

Sorry if I upset you, but if you've been outside the GT forums you'll have a mental breakdown seeing the kind of arguments we have in other topics This is a pretty normal debate as far as I'm concerned.

Merry Christmas, don't stress and remember at the end of the day, it's just a game

 

[kungtotte_]

Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets.

Skip Barber, Getting Faster.

Lewis Carroll, Drive to Win.

Those are three primary sources I've read that all say that the procedure to follow in getting progressively faster is:

1. Drive the correct line
2. Maximize corner exit speed
3. Maximize corner entry speed/optimize braking.
4. Maximize mid-corner speed.

That's in order of importance and amount of time gained. So you gain whole seconds to several tenths by working on the first two, and tenths to hundredths working on the last two. The faster you are the less time to be gained across the board, obviously.

But those three books all support my point that braking is not the first thing you work on to go faster regardless of your skill/speed.

 

[Groundfish]

Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets.

Skip Barber, Getting Faster.

Lewis Carroll, Drive to Win.

Those are three primary sources I've read that all say that the procedure to follow in getting progressively faster is:

1. Drive the correct line
2. Maximize corner exit speed
3. Maximize corner entry speed/optimize braking.
4. Maximize mid-corner speed.

That's in order of importance and amount of time gained. So you gain whole seconds to several tenths by working on the first two, and tenths to hundredths working on the last two. The faster you are the less time to be gained across the board, obviously.

But those three books all support my point that braking is not the first thing you work on to go faster regardless of your skill/speed.

True dat. Plus I’ve yet to see the examples of cars and the ‘correct’ bb setting per corner that gains those tenths lol. Show me the money.
Plus imo if a person likes twiddling and tinkering with a bunch of settings there’s pc games for that or ACC. GTS is driver ability, that’s what’s great about it. You can hit top 1 percent or better by just driving without adjusting a thing, if you know how to drive as is taught irl by Bentley and others.

 

[kilesa4568]

1. Drive the correct line
2. Maximize corner exit speed
3. Maximize corner entry speed/optimize braking.
4. Maximize mid-corner speed.

That's in order of importance and amount of time gained. So you gain whole seconds to several tenths by working on the first two, and tenths to hundredths working on the last two. The faster you are the less time to be gained across the board, obviously.

Try 3, 1, 4, then 2. Voila. You just got quicker.

True dat. Plus I’ve yet to see the examples of cars and the ‘correct’ bb setting per corner that gains those tenths lol. Show me the money.

I've found moving the BB forward or backwards a notch or two (for undulating tracks) helpful for setting up certain corners but I've never said 'per corner'. That being said, if I'm giving a road car a thrash on the Nordschleife, I'll set it for a lot more corners as the weight can shift a lot more in them. It's not hard or confusing to do it, especially when BB is the only thing I need adjust. No TC and the only time I touch fuel map is long straights in a draft or I've borked my fuel usage.

It's genuinely baffling hearing someone recommending traction control (which is proven to slow you down in GTS) and a constant neutral brake bias in each car, no matter what drive train or weight split they have. I'm glad it works for you but I'd be taking two steps back if I followed your (or Ross Bentley's) basic technique logic in GTS. I'm sure he could fill a few holes in my race craft though...if there are any

I'm not saying you're wrong as everyone has their own style and technique when it comes to driving/racing but I prefer my monkey see/monkey do approach after watching the top top splits (usually EMEA) strutting their stuff on youtube for the last few years. They've taught me everything I know (but not everything they know) about how to drive in GTS. Nobody uses TC (except on starts) and the car always dictates the best brake bias...when you know what to look for...

Tidgney has got a video out (might be the one above) where he chats with Lewis Hamilton (not shown) about better braking being the key to faster laps and being agreed with. I'm not going to argue with them after finding out they're right.

Anyway, each to their own. I just wanted to remind about the 'per corner' bit...again...again...

Happy holidays fellas.

 

[kungtotte_]

Lewis Hamilton is literally the fastest guy on the planet right now, driving the fastest class of car in the highest level of the sport. All 20 drivers in F1 are making dozens of adjustments each lap, particularly in qualification, to find the last bit of speed they can.

They do it because they've already perfected everything else. They are already driving the perfect line, already have perfect exits, already have perfect braking. The only place left for them to look is "if I shift my brakes half a percent, can I go a few thousandths faster?".

Outside of the top splits in this game nobody is at that level. Which is in line with what we've been saying: find a comfortable setting for the car/track/driving style and stick with it for the whole lap. Once you hit top-10 times feel free to fiddle with everything.

All three of those authors all put braking further down the list because you gain the least amount of time by perfecting that area compared to line and exit speed. Exiting a corner 1 MPH faster does more for laptime than entering it 10 MPH faster.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I see one thing missing from all of your advice.
And I am sure you all do it, it's very basic but it's also fundamental to gaining speed.
Where you look. Look far ahead, look at the next apex, look through where you can.

 

[Groundfish]

This has gotten way out of sorts.
The whole way we got into this bit was because some of us said to OP work on the other things first before twiddling bb looking for hundredths.
We assumed OP wasn’t vying for top tens every week already.
Then all heck kinda broke loose with snide comments, and disagreements.
For me, again, re tcs, AGAIN, if you understand how the TCS works, you can use that to your own advantage, especially in gr3 4 and up and in many powerful street cars.
To me looking at say top split or Igor Fraga and copying their way blindly is sort of like selecting golf equipment.
Like you COULD say well Tiger Woods uses Mizuno muscle backed blades with double x super stiff steel shafts and carries a one iron and uses balata golf balls, that doesn’t mean you or I should do that.
Or like say you have an overpowered supercar somehow in real life, and you can defeat all those nannies and say Lewis Hamilton has one too and tracks it and has all assists defeated and drifts all over..
That doesn’t mean you can do it or should because he can.
The fact is we are all where we are. I don’t know the OP but it’s a solid bet he’s not at the top of GTS just by probability alone.
I’ve been posting times in top one percent of NA on dailies I fancy for over a year now tcs3. Bb0.
I gain way way more and there’s much more there by working on the things advised by Bentley and Barber etc. Pretty much everything said by tcs haters is wrong. I know because I use it probably far more than anyone here.
Myself and others gave the correct advice given by driving instructors worldwide that would help 99.7 or more percent of drivers the most, far more than bb adjustments.
Further it is a fallacy to state the following:
“Tcs makes you slower”
That is a gross oversimplification of what creates laptimes. The car can’t accelerate if you don’t have traction on the drive wheels. Plus AGAIN I never never once said use tcs for all cars, I specified that several times but saying you use it at all brings every witch hunter out of the woodwork. “Mama says tcs is the devil” lol
Anyways I want to say I’m not personally interested in being snarky although I have made some snarky responses to the rude comments directed towards me and others

It should be about helping folks out, not calling others out.
I KNOW I stand on bedrock being supported by Ross Bentley. It’s just true.
Changing bb to gain time is debatable and no one here has posted specific examples as I requested several times. I don’t expect it and don’t care anymore.

It should be about collectively moving FORWARD not whipping out our junk and grabbing a ruler.
.

 

[Ian JB]

Dear Groundfish - Merry Christmas first of all!!!

"This has gotten way out of sorts." I have to agree. I have watched, with some dismay, this descend into a p*****g competition. Much to my sadness! I know there are differing opinions here. That said, my intention was to ask a question, learn from the responses and let others learn from the same responses.

I have learned!!!!

I have learned a great deal too. This week gone, I have managed to "Gold" a time on the Lewis Hamilton challenges. Something I would have considered impossible for me only a couple of weeks ago. All my other times have improved significantly and it all down to you guys in this thread - Another massive thank you.

I am getting quicker :-)

Best regards and seasons greetings to all here.



Ian.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I’ve had better luck starting from ground zero in this game doing as I mentioned in post 14.
My goal isn’t to have “more braking force on some turns and more rotation on others”
Personally my goal is to drive the limit. The vast majority of people don’t understand what that means. I came to this game not having played a racing game since ridge racer ps1.
By doing what I said in post 14 I’ve had tremendous success in this game. It’s taken a lot of time but I’ve developed a (probably, hopefully) lifelong hobby moving forward.
I have ended up doing things in a way that includes a whole common list of sim gaming “Don’ts”
I don’t left foot brake, I use default tcs 98 percent of the time even on qual because it makes me more consistent and faster. I use cockpit view only. Often I’m running weak Abs or in rare cases no abs (very rare). On racecars I run bb0 almost exclusively.
So, for myself it’s as @NevilleNobody said, traditional (fundamentally sound real world technique with inputs and driving the limit) means to get times and succeed in online sport mode.
I can only point to what works for myself, and post my opinion.
It’s fun, sim gaming, and everyone has an iron in the fire, everyone has “their way”
Truly it’s all good and all about fun as you pointed out.

Cheers

this has been a helpful thread. One of the most helpful threads I’ve read here. I bought the Ross Bentley book people mentioned here and have began to thumb through it. I also decided to go cockpit view only for my newly created Europe alt account. I might go cockpit view for everything. Admittedly, I’m probably a half second off my “fastest” qually times in this view. But I’m waaaaaay more consistent with my braking points, trail braking, apexes, throttle control and such. Not to mention it’s way more immersive! At 37 years old and someone who drives for a living, it’s hard for me to adjust to the other views. I could get close with the bumper view, but it’s very difficult to see over cars.

keep this thread going, even the snarky comments!!! It’s the interwebz!!

 

[kilesa4568]

For me, again, re tcs, AGAIN, if you understand how the TCS works, you can use that to your own advantage, especially in gr3 4 and up and in many powerful street cars.

...and if you don't need it? This not a flex but if I rarely lose traction (by accident) or I want to deliberately break traction to help me rotate the car, why would I put TC on?

To me looking at say top split or Igor Fraga and copying their way blindly is sort of like selecting golf equipment.

Not at all. They often go into detail on why they do what they do and me practicing what they preach has proved very beneficial. Who better to teach you than a specific game's very best?

Further it is a fallacy to state the following:
“Tcs makes you slower”
That is a gross oversimplification of what creates laptimes. The car can’t accelerate if you don’t have traction on the drive wheels. Plus AGAIN I never never once said use tcs for all cars, I specified that several times but saying you use it at all brings every witch hunter out of the woodwork. “Mama says tcs is the devil” lol

Don't be so melodramatic. Brake bias helps me rotate the car but having unimpeded access to the car's power helps me follow and improve on my line a hell of a lot more. I'm not poking you in the eye with that fact, I'm just stating it.

Changing bb to gain time is debatable and no one here has posted specific examples as I requested several times. I don’t expect it and don’t care anymore.

You haven't actually asked for examples and an A+ driver should already know how changing it helps in GTS.

Top recommendation from me @Ian JB , watch how the top splits drive. They give you everything you need to work on in your practice.

 

[Def-Infinity]

...and if you don't need it? This not a flex but if I rarely lose traction (by accident) or I want to deliberately break traction to help me rotate the car, why would I put TC on?

To protect already dying tires (namely, the driving tires) and to prevent overdriving on tires that you're uncomfortable with.

It doesn't matter if you rarely lose traction or spin. If you spin at all you would have lost more time having to rectify the mistake than if you ran TC the whole time. At that point its objectively faster whether you like it or not.

The top split is able to mitigate this issue to a great degree - but the majority of drivers are not top split drivers.

 

[Groundfish]

...and if you don't need it? This not a flex but if I rarely lose traction (by accident) or I want to deliberately break traction to help me rotate the car, why would I put TC on?

To get out of slow corners is one. On hairpins tcs setting 2 or above was adjusted several updates back specifically to help rotating the car on partial throttle. They listed it in the update notes. Many cars rotate with partial throttle into a slight oversteer balance with setting 2 and up. This includes for example the turn at Catalunya onto the back straight in certain gr3. Tcs varies in how it works between cars too, but that turn... Take it just right with tcs it’s faster than without. There’s many turns like this in game. If you wanna break rears loose with the arcade compression lock up late brake slide turn in you can do that with tcs also it’s doesn’t prevent that.
A huge issue in close racing AT LIMIT is slight contacts. I play rally games my reactions are fast and my hands are quick.
I’m fine with handling contact but in many instances in aggressive close racing the wrong contact at the wrong time will put you out of control. The tcs prevents you from spinning NOT BY SIMPLY Due to your own INCOMPETENCe IT HELPS WHEN YOU ARE HIT BY INCOMPETENT PEOPLE OR AGGRESSIVE DRIVERS OR LETS FACE IT RACING CLOSE AND HARD. Tcs is a boon when encountering dirty drivers.
A great example of this is Seaside turn four, any part of that turn is a lot of incidents. If someone breaks your traction by hitting you even very gently and you are not expecting that you spin up the rears overheat em buh bye. Tcs reacts to that when you cannot. Same getting hit exiting on curbs etc.
Tcs allows you to be as aggressive as possible exiting turns especially technical turns. I can’t tell you how many cars I flat walk away from exiting certain turns in tight racing because I can push the envelope on throttle and they hit it a microsecond early boom fishtail and I’m gaining time.
Lastly learning to use it will make you faster if you don’t cheat and turn it off as a cop out. If you learn to drive but only have it come on barely you’ll be fast and have low tire wear too because it teaches you to straighten out the steering, balance the car better on entry etc.
There’s so many reasons these are just off top of my head. Oh yeah, I think an awful lot of players who cry about getting hit off or divebombed by dirty drivers would certainly be better off with tcs.
FWD with power are far better in corners with tcs. Megane gr4 Bathurst...Tcs is worth a lot there. No TCS alone fine. With others? I’ll use tcs. I’ve been burned by peoples mistakes too many times. I’m talking about racing online in sport mode where anything can and does happen very often. I’ve never said, oh use it if you can’t lap without spinning. I’ve gotten 50-60 days drive time-many hours into GTS. I doubt most people reading this have that much time in. On hotlap ping tcs is 100 percent accurate and repeatable in its behavior. It’s predictable and reliable, that’s a quality less than 3 percent of players on NA have. It’s a good thing but you gotta understand how it works to take advantage of it and learn what it’s teaching you and how it helps the learning and continual improvement process which is really the only reason I shared my take. The reaction I get is people unzipping and telling me their three inches are longer than my three inches. Lol it’s ridiculous how inane the responses have been...lol

You haven't actually asked for examples and an A+ driver should already know how ch.

I don’t do what you do.
Lol read my posts, do you even read them? Lol
I don’t think you remember what I’ve even said. You just heard TCS?! and started frothing at the mouth and pounding away on your keyboard. Take karts. I never saw anyone use abs off until I did. The kart understeer s like heck with abs and tcs also sucks the life out of it but you know, at Tsukuba I had to turn it on because everybody else was using it and playing Mariokart. I’ve never said blanket leave it default across the board. No ones paid attention though. It’s just “TCS?! BURN HER SHES A WITCH!”
I don’t do what you do.

 

[kilesa4568]

You just heard TCS?! and started frothing at the mouth and pounding away on your keyboard.

Melodrama again? I said TC is slower (reasonably I thought) in the long run but you jumped in two footed with your defense of it as a 'getting quicker' aid. Like I said earlier, I'm not poking you in the eye with it but it seems to have hit a real nerve with you as you're the biggest promoter of its use in this thread.

Believe it or not, more people will read this thread than reply in it so if my advice (not an instruction) about dropping TC strikes a chord with them, that's job done. I'm not going to sit here debating with someone who swears by it so vehemently though as that's just a waste of my time.

I'm all for debate but please leave the angst at home. It's a real turn off.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

When it comes to TCS I think the middle ground will be faster for most. Keep it on and learn to be fast without activating it.
I'm not very fast but I am a lot faster with TCS on than off.
I can run most classes without it but I am faster with it on. And a lot safer

 

[Groundfish]

Melodrama again? I said TC is slower (reasonably I thought) in the long run but you jumped in two footed with your defense of it as a 'getting quicker' aid. Like I said earlier, I'm not poking you in the eye with it but it seems to have hit a real nerve with you as you're the biggest promoter of its use in this thread.

Believe it or not, more people will read this thread than reply in it so if my advice (not an instruction) about dropping TC strikes a chord with them, that's job done. I'm not going to sit here debating with someone who swears by it so vehemently though as that's just a waste of my time.

I'm all for debate but please leave the angst at home. It's a real turn off.

What useful tip did you provide here about the topic? Right none.
Please refrain from further attempts to antagonize me with your nonsense and wordsmithing.
Anyhow there’s no debate. There hasn’t been in the thread here. It’s just been people telling me what I’ve already done can’t be possible. It’s actually pretty funny now that I reflect on it.
Thanks, Ross. And goodbye thread.

 

[CBH]

Dear Groundfish - Merry Christmas first of all!!!

"This has gotten way out of sorts." I have to agree. I have watched, with some dismay, this descend into a p*****g competition. Much to my sadness! I know there are differing opinions here. That said, my intention was to ask a question, learn from the responses and let others learn from the same responses.

I have learned!!!!

I have learned a great deal too. This week gone, I have managed to "Gold" a time on the Lewis Hamilton challenges. Something I would have considered impossible for me only a couple of weeks ago. All my other times have improved significantly and it all down to you guys in this thread - Another massive thank you.

I am getting quicker :-)

Best regards and seasons greetings to all here.



Ian.

That's good you are getting quicker my friend , and a Merry Christmas to you .

About Traction Control, usually only for standing starts only and then leave it off during a race.

 

[barak181]

When it comes to TCS I think the middle ground will be faster for most. Keep it on and learn to be fast without activating it.
I'm not very fast but I am a lot faster with TCS on than off.
I can run most classes without it but I am faster with it on. And a lot safer

See? Now this thread has got me all curious and wanting to go turn my TCS to 2 and see what happens with my lap time at RBR but I got dinner and stuff to do right now....