Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[Zelalem]

Replays can trick people into thinking they're watching real life racing footage, and the racing experience for most people is very satisfying.

I was never tricked by GT6, because it doesn't look realistic enough. PD did a great job with the PS3 hardware, though. GT7 could be the first GT game that can trick me, but PD needs to get the sound realistic, too. Otherwise i will never be tricked by a GT game.

 

[Griffith500]

Mainly the part where you say they're reevaluating and rebuilding their method from the ground up. Earlier, I've seen you compare their efforts to Sonory's... Where do you get that notion?

He's doin' just fine

We have a great means of comparison, because several cars use the exact same samples in GT6 as they did in GT2. So you can track the progress of how those samples are used over the successive versions of the game.

Very simply: although their samples have been carried over, the audio engine has been re-built for PS2 and then again for PS3. That's the opposite of what usually happens: the samples are re-designed and the engine carried over.

There are a number of impressive physical considerations implemented in the source mixing and localisation in the PS3 outing that imply a fundamental re-design of the sampler controls and buffer management - namely: the sound delay and "filtering". I don't want to go into too much detail, because it gets very technical very quickly, and although I like to believe that it's easily understood by anyone given the time, the chances are no one will care!

Other developers have tried these things, but gave up when the immediate changes didn't result in something that sounded good: you have to push past that with more challenging of assumptions and re-evaluation of base knowledge. Many of the sound quality issues can be avoided by starting from scratch, rather than trying to "retrofit" an existing system, since the "mistakes" are more obvious and the correct behaviour more intrinsic. That takes time, effort and money, of course, which is generally "better" spent elsewhere in the minds of those focused on the short-term - the bane of any ambitious developer.

PD demonstrate such re-evaluation in other areas of their work (mostly graphics, naturally), and Kaz is often heard saying they re-built things in terms of the base assumptions.


Note that I was not comparing their work to Sonory's as such, I just used that as an example of a successful, purely-synthetic engine sound "technology".

 

[Dodzzz]

I was never tricked by GT6, because it doesn't look realistic enough. PD did a great job with the PS3 hardware, though. GT7 could be the first GT game that can trick me, but PD needs to get the sound realistic, too. Otherwise i will never be tricked by a GT game.

I got tricked once by GT6 engine sounds when it was replaying an automatic demo..
So I was in my room, doing something on my PC while my GT6 is idling in my living room.. then suddenly, I heard a loud sports car engine sound roaring from nowhere.. I thought.. WOW who's that! I almost tried to go outside to check who's the guy driving that car... and a few moment later I realized it was just my GT6 doing a demo

 

[Samus]

nevermind, can't be bothered. Delete.

 

[Tenacious D]

I was never tricked by GT6, because it doesn't look realistic enough.

You=/= everyone. There have been many replays that I've stared at the screen hard because it looks so real. A number of posts since the Prologue days in which people have walked in on a replay and wondered what race was on.

Prior to these next gen racers like P CARS, the only other game that did that to me was Forza, from F3 on, but just in moments. GT5 and 6 look stunning on obsolete hardware.

By the way, I've had Dodzzz's experience too on occasion, taking a net break while GT5 or 6 idled, and heard something that had me bolting to the livingroom to watch a demo thanks to an impressive engine roar.

 

[Zelalem]

There have been many replays that I've stared at the screen hard because it looks so real.

You=/= everyone.

A number of posts since the Prologue days in which people have walked in on a replay and wondered what race was on.

A number of post =/= everyone. The cycle of realistic graphics is funny, because if PS3 graphics are realistic. What will be PS4, PS5, PS6 or PS7 graphics for you and people which believe PS3 can make realistic graphics? More realistic than reality?

I agree GT looks great, but as i said many friends and me were never tricked by GT, because reality looks so much better. I watched the 6 hours nurburing yesterday and played GT6 afterwards. This is at least a generation difference. Sound is a much bigger problem, thought.

I want to believe Griffith500 theories, but i can not understand that PD only use them on RB cars and not the new cars aswell. Furthermore, Yamauchi talks about features that aren't in the game yet and don't proudly tells us that the RB cars use this new method?! Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Tenacious D]

You=/= everyone.
A number of post =/= everyone. The cycle of realistic graphics is funny, because if PS3 graphics are realistic. What will be PS4, PS5, PS6 or PS7 graphics for you and people which believe PS3 can make realistic graphics? More realistic than reality?

Oh brother. "Nuh-uh!"

The point is that people are perceiving something you aren't. Your experience with GT5 and 6 is shared by some, but not all. "Nuh-uh" answers have no touch on experiences by others, because my friends have remarked the opposite of yours. So it's not you and your friend's opinion against mine. And "more real than reality"? Sure, whatever suits you.

 

[mister dog]

So; one month later again how about those placeholders huh?
Still holding their places I see

 

[PepeMickey]

I think they'll hold their place until GT7, then they will move on and hold new places in that game as well.

 

[mister dog]

I think they'll hold their place until GT7, then they will move on and hold new places in that game as well.

My guess is he just lied when he said 6's sounds were placeholders, and they would be "fixed in an update", helped the sales figures with those die hard fanatics giving them some false hope at least...

For GT7 they just can't permit to have these ridiculous sounds anymore that's for sure, so i would be really surprised if they would try to pull that one off again. We'll see their prologue game "FM5 style" probably by this xmas; limited content but more focused on quality (finally!).. they got to really if they don't want SMS and T10 laughing in their faces together with everyone else on the race sim market.

 

[Dude27]

Engine sound apart , GT IMHO have the best doppler effect ever in a racing game 👍, always loved the realistic swoosh when the cars are passing off camera (especially with the JTCC cars).

 

[Rafael F]

Still waiting for the "breakthrough"

 

[TokoTurismo]

Still waiting for the "breakthrough"

Maybe Kaz was drunk when he said that. He saids a lot of things when he's drunk.

 

[Imari]

Maybe Kaz was drunk when he said that. He saids a lot of things when he's drunk.

Every interview he's ever done, possibly...

 

[TokoTurismo]

Every interview he's ever done, possibly...

Yep, and up next will be GT7 interviews. We must brace ourselves for it, drunk Kaz to the max because PS4, haha.

 

[Vegard]

Engine sound apart , GT IMHO have the best doppler effect ever in a racing game 👍, always loved the realistic swoosh when the cars are passing off camera (especially with the JTCC cars).

Sound engine 👍

Engine sounds 👎

 

[Griffith500]

...

I want to believe Griffith500 theories, but i can not understand that PD only use them on RB cars and not the new cars aswell. Furthermore, Yamauchi talks about features that aren't in the game yet and don't proudly tells us that the RB cars use this new method?! Doesn't make sense to me.

It's just a teaser, is my impression. The way they're driving the new sounds is to use really poor sounding samples (load a lap of an X-car in the Data Logger), when they could instead do it in a way that better complements the processing they're applying. The samples for the V6 X-cars don't even sound like a V6 (they sound like a motorbike, which is tickling on one of my other theories); it's all in the processing, much like it is in "my" system, and in LFS'.

They won't want to spend time doing all the cars in that half-baked way if there's a chance they can get the full-fat version working on PS3 (no such issues for PS4, I'd bet), especially since the full-fat sounds are most likely pretty much complete, in terms of the per-car "sound design" and ready for PS4. The teaser method might not even work for all cars, anyway, especially quieter / silenced / "ordinary" ones.

Remember, Kaz said they're doing research, not trying to get artwork out the door.

 

[RACECAR]

I really want to use that Data logger and investigate those sounds now that they are fully isolated in that feature. Only thing that's keeping me from doing so are the posts saying that PS3s are freezing from it.

 

[Griffith500]

I really want to use that Data logger and investigate those sounds now that they are fully isolated in that feature. Only thing that's keeping me from doing so are the posts saying that PS3s are freezing from it.

It probably doesn't help, given I'm just one person, but mine hasn't frozen yet. I've used it perhaps five times, once to really dissect a lap I did for a while (using the manual scrolling and switching between sets etc.), and another time I left it running on "play" (with the X Junior sound, to "soak it up" a bit), for something like 30 mins...

 

[HuskyGT]

Amazing how Forza 3 not only got all sounds right when it comes to matching the right sample with the right car (So far. I only have like 15 cars), but the sound effects themselves are also very impressive. Makes me enjoy the game so much more than GT6. The only thing that GT does better and it's superior than any other car game I've tired is the sound "output" (surround sound and stuff) and the Doppler Effect thing in replays.

PD rubs in my face the Diablo, Countach 25th Anniversary, Audi Quattro, Lamborghini Reventon, and it makes them sound like if they didn't even had the right engine type. Guess what, PD? Forza got them right! So I guess I''l go enjoy them in that other game.

A cheap, crappy 2009 game has better sounds than your godly and untouchable GT6... shame on you, PD...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Maybe Kaz was drunk when he said that. He saids a lot of things when he's drunk.

My memory could be off, but I don't recall saying the sounds would be in GT6 in an update. What I recall him saying is that they are working on it but it might not make it into GT6. Correct me if I'm wrong with a link

Found it: You can read this a couple of ways and there may be some problem with the translation.

GTP: So we will see some changes in that area?

KY: “Actually, we are doing research right now to generate the sounds in a completely different way. I’m not sure if it is actually going to make it into GT6 in time yet, but we’ll have to see.”

 

[John_Marsten]

I think you might be right Johnny

 

[TokoTurismo]

My memory could be off, but I don't recall saying the sounds would be in GT6 in an update. What I recall him saying is that they are working on it but it might not make it into GT6. Correct me if I'm wrong with a link

Found it: You can read this a couple of ways and there may be some problem with the translation.

Hmmm. Seems like it'll be saved for GT7, which makes sense. Da powah of PS4.

 

[Rafael F]

That's sad

 

[mister dog]

My memory could be off, but I don't recall saying the sounds would be in GT6 in an update. What I recall him saying is that they are working on it but it might not make it into GT6. Correct me if I'm wrong with a link

Found it: You can read this a couple of ways and there may be some problem with the translation.

Yes he's always smart enough to suggest it's coming "somewhere in the future" but not to commit.. bit misleading to say the least.

 

[Dude27]

Actually make sense if you consider GT6 to be just a money grabber until GT7 on the PS4... the thing with Kaz is that he have a real PR talent to make haiku-like* statements that ALWAYS have to be taken on the "spiritual" faith level... and in the great tradition of the new concept of game in kit introduced by GT5, GT6 seems to follow the same road of "great expectation, poor result" until the next iteration...

What puzzle me is that the man seems to want to push boundaries only with obscure features that only 0.01% of us will/could really use... when the biggest (huge) faults of GT are still untreated after 6 games.

* hard to interpret as fact

My memory could be off, but I don't recall saying the sounds would be in GT6 in an update. What I recall him saying is that they are working on it but it might not make it into GT6. Correct me if I'm wrong with a link

Found it: You can read this a couple of ways and there may be some problem with the translation.

 

[Griffith500]

My memory could be off, but I don't recall saying the sounds would be in GT6 in an update. What I recall him saying is that they are working on it but it might not make it into GT6. Correct me if I'm wrong with a link

Found it: You can read this a couple of ways and there may be some problem with the translation.

Yeah, that's true. The possibility of an update was always sketchy in my mind as it would require a lot of forward planning and no substantial or even just finicky changes in the broad schema of the inter-relation between the various processing tasks. But then this:

I think I mentioned this in the past, but we’re really working to change the fundamental way that the engine sound works. Right now I have a feeling that it might not make it for day one for GT6.

(Asked if it could it be patched in as part of the post-release support)
There’s a good possibility that we might do this.

Obviously nothing concrete, but "good possibility" is better than we usually get, and implies they were already thinking about it. Which is better than GT5.

 

[Vegard]

"good possibility (that it will be added in a patch, post release)."

6 months ago:

Now:

 

[Samus]

"Both are technically possible, and we might be preparing it. (Laughs)" - What Kaz said about engine swaps and a livery editor.

"Both are technically possible but we're not doing them any time soon. (Laughs at you)" - What he actually meant.

 

[Griffith500]

But neither of those things were ever mentioned as being in any particular game, unlike the new sounds.