Give us better sounds - PLEASE !!

[CinnamonOD]

Any examples? no access to PS3 right now

Skip to 0:50

 

[sk8er913]

So I guess the recent 1.15 updates brought a new machine to the table that may possibly use this AES method: The Mazda LM55 Vision Gran Turismo has an exceptional rotary sound that sounds much better than the 787B.

Wow really? I remember back in GT5 when it was my favorite car. I remembreally it sounding amazing. The e90 bmw.sounds very good also.

Edit: (o_o) wow. I'm playing it through my phone speakers and it sounds amazing.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

I think pd after years of exploration and endeavour have again jumped to "cutting edge" in terms of taking this genre of game forward. Maybe there will be "standard" and "premium" sounding cars in gt7. But from reading @Griffith500 amongst others and from hearing the last few vgt cars, this hard work will reap unbelievably fantastic results. It'll just be a case of time before every single car sounds amazing. Obviously people will never stop doubting the whole kaz is a visionary thing but pd can't stop that. If 30% of cars have a sound makeover using this new "organic" sound generation system, I'll take that. The Mazda is absolutely gorgeous sounding

 

[RACECAR]

So I guess the recent 1.15 updates brought a new machine to the table that may possibly use this AES method: The Mazda LM55 Vision Gran Turismo has an exceptional rotary sound that sounds much better than the 787B.

Its definitely got the same defining characteristics (Hard, Bass-y, over-the-top rasp). We're looking like we're basically seeing it in a very early WIP and so far with all things considered, its not a bad start. The engine characteristics can be easily picked out (The V6 of the Lotus, the Boxer engine in the Subaru and now the Rotary in the Mazda). The next big test will be to see what they manage with a V8, one of their more notable Hit & Misses.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'd also like to point out that the Infiniti Concept Vision Gran Turismo does present an exceptional sound compared to other machines in the game.

 

[ironman44321]

Most of the new cars that they've added recently have sounded really good. Really does bode well for GT7.

 

[Pootis]

Almost all the cars that got recently added to the game sound really good.

All the X1's (including the Jr. one), all the VGT's since the Subaru, the Lotus 97T, and the F3 car.

Gives us hope for GT7 sound wise.

 

[Griffith500]

Its definitely got the same defining characteristics (Hard, Bass-y, over-the-top rasp). We're looking like we're basically seeing it in a very early WIP and so far with all things considered, its not a bad start. The engine characteristics can be easily picked out (The V6 of the Lotus, the Boxer engine in the Subaru and now the Rotary in the Mazda). The next big test will be to see what they manage with a V8, one of their more notable Hit & Misses.

V8s work perfectly fine, too

 

[Aphelion]

Almost all the cars that got recently added to the game sound really good.

All the X1's (including the Jr. one), all the VGT's since the Subaru, the Lotus 97T, and the F3 car.

Gives us hope for GT7 sound wise.

I think that is what they are trying to do. Quote from PD: 'the next major sound update will be coming in GT7'. I think that by adding that mini sound update a while ago they are trying to give us a taste of what is too come. Just a theory.

 

[sparkytooth]

Question is if it'll span the entire index by GT7.

 

[sparkytooth]

V8s work perfectly fine, too

The Infiniti Concept Vision Gran Turismo sounds like a 4.5 liter NA V8 like the game says so, and it's also very distinctive. It could use AES like the other 2 recent VGT cars.

 

[Griffith500]

The Infiniti Concept Vision Gran Turismo sounds like a 4.5 liter NA V8 like the game says so, and it's also very distinctive. It could use AES like the other 2 recent VGT cars.

I'm certain it uses samples, and I don't think it's flat plane V8s people are worried about, so much as the more evocative cross plane type.

But AES will handle both just fine, because it's designed to work for the general case of any configuration and firing order, according to the data supplied.

 

[Vegard]

But AES will handle both just fine, because it's designed to work for the general case of any configuration and firing order, according to the data supplied.

Still no intake sound though.
Do you expect GT7 on PS4 to have a dedicated 'induction channel'?

 

[Max Weismann]

I remember when I first bought GT6, I wondered why do all these cars sound like vacuum cleaners and leaf blowers?

 

[Pophead]

AES is giving me hope for GT7 - if PD can pull off these lovely sounds in the Mazda and Subaru VGT on the PS3's hardware with only 256MB of RAM, imagine what they could do with the PS4's 8GB of RAM.

This excites me but I'll leave full judgement until we see GT7 gameplay hopefully next E3 and see if this new engine has been implemented.

If so and the whole package looks to be amazing, boy I will be annoyed I got an XBOX One and not a PS4! (I was skeptical of 7 after how 6 disappointed me in a whole)

 

[Griffith500]

Still no intake sound though.
Do you expect GT7 on PS4 to have a dedicated 'induction channel'?

Yes, if you look at the strings WhistleSnap dug out, you'll see reference to intake in the AES files - more references appear elsewhere. It appears the game ignores these (in code) in its current form, and existing AES-enabled cars have null values for all intake related properties (reflecting my belief that they're all custom tunings for the limited functionality currently in GT6).

Without intake, AES will not work properly convincingly at all; even for engines where intake is barely noticeable, it still has an effect "in the mix".

Even though the sampler doesn't have a dedicated induction channel, if you listen very carefully to both the exhaust and engine samples, you can hear some intake noise bleeding into both. You won't get that in the exhaust sound from AES, unless you tune it to approximate the intake pulse waveform as well as the exhaust waveform.

But it's a poor approximation in my experience, because both sources need to be timbrally distinct to give the correct, convincing effect - the exhaust (model) can only sound like exhaust, no matter the waveform you start with. Using a more superficial synthesis method may yield more success on that front, but you'd be sacrificing its flexibility and "physicality", i.e. its principal advantages.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Am I right in thinking this new sound replication means mean engine physics will improve, what with the game measuring all the engine details?

 

[Griffith500]

Am I right in thinking this new sound replication means mean engine physics will improve, what with the game measuring all the engine details?

Not nessiecelery. But ideally, yes.

All the sound synthesis does is produce a sound according to the controls fed to it.

Something like idle lope is not sound synthesis, it's just an unsteady idle speed with characteristic rise and fall, and a given frequency of oscillation. That comes from modeling the acoustic-dynamic (coupled with fueling) properties of cylinder filling and its effect on combustion, coupled with the inertial properties of the rotating / reciprocating masses.

With samples, you get that lope for free and the in-game idle speed can safely be constant. However, it is fixed content with audible looping (listener fatigue) and transitions into and out of that lope sample are tricky to get to sound natural.

With PD's AES, you have to modulate the synthesis controls to get the same effect, either with a physical model along the lines described above, or using some kind of fakery - the latter can sound unnatural and suffers the same transition problem. The former has never been done in a game.

The beauty of the model is that it has wide reaching effects, e.g. part-throttle fluffiness falls out "for free", throttle hesitation and driveline shunt also; plus you've basically made an engine simulation you can get torque curves out of: detailed tuning.

 

[Huks]

It's worth noting that Richard Burns Rally was originally intended to have a real-time engine simulation model. (Over a decade ago!) Unfortunately, it seems the developers couldn't get it to work in the actual game since the final game has predetermined torque values for all the cars.

 

[Griffith500]

It's worth noting that Richard Burns Rally was originally intended to have a real-time engine simulation model. (Over a decade ago!) Unfortunately, it seems the developers couldn't get it to work in the actual game since the final game has predetermined torque values for all the cars.

Wow, I never knew that (although I'm not surprised in this case). What's stopping other serious simulations? Priorities, man...

RBR used an interesting form of sound synthesis also; it had realtime adjustable sliders, like LFS (although it's likely the synthesis technique is different) - also like LFS, it probably relied on some form of pre made source "sample" (recognisable or otherwise) that was then manipulated by the synthesis engine. I've not really looked into it in great detail.

RBR was such a gem: great physics engine, superb tyre model, detailed stage surface modeling without barriers etc. etc. What happened to those guys?
EDIT: Square Enix happened, and shut them down.
Warthog Sweden was previously Atod AB; after Eidos / Squenix they went back to being Atod and made this.

 

[Crowood]

I did a few laps on Special Stage Route 5 since the "added echo to tunnels and enviroment" update. That track is really fun now, the echo improves the overal experiance a lot for me.

 

[Raggadish]

I'm slightly worried about this new system for sound and it mostly comes from that we haven't really heard if it can accurately replicate real life car sounds. I mean, there is such a big variety with distinct sounds such as LFA, 787B or any of the race cars. Sure, the Vision GT cars have some good and interesting sound design, and we can hear the likes of a V6 and such. But is the new system good enough to convey how the real life cars sound?

 

[RACECAR]

So, you're not counting the Lotus 97T or the Ralt F3? Those are the only two real world cars using this new method.

 

[Harsk100]

So, you're not counting the Lotus 97T or the Ralt F3? Those are the only two real world cars using this new method.

The 97T and Ralt F3's sounds are close to the real one and they're two of best sounding cars in the game.

And I got one question: What is the worst sounding car in the game?

My worst sounding cars in the game is Citroen Xsara Kit Car (Sounds like a V6 when it is a 4-cylinder) and a Audi Quattro S1 (it sounds like a V6 when it was supposed to sound like a V10 like the R8 LMS)

 

[PR3D4TOR]

Technically its recreating an engine sound. For example the Visiv uses a Turbo Boxer 4. The sound is a Turbo Boxer 4 it could be applied to the boxer 4's but I hope the bring a little more distinction and don't just use the same clip repeatedly.

The LM55 uses (if they specifically say it or not) a Rotary

Infinity a V8

97T Turbo V6

F3 4 banger

 

[Raggadish]

So, you're not counting the Lotus 97T or the Ralt F3? Those are the only two real world cars using this new method.

I forgot about those two! Point still stands though, can they produce engine sounds that are accurate to a wide range of different exhaust sounds. A V6 engine exhaust note in one car can sound really different from a different car with a V6.

The sound is a Turbo Boxer 4 it could be applied to the boxer 4's but I hope the bring a little more distinction and don't just use the same clip repeatedly.

This is also a concern of mine. In my ears all the cars using this new system sounds same-y. Like the underlaying sound is the same, just with different pitches or whatever the terminology is.

 

[Vegard]

My worst sounding cars in the game is Citroen Xsara Kit Car (Sounds like a V6 when it is a 4-cylinder)

They changed it from GT5!?

 

[PR3D4TOR]

I forgot about those two!



This is also a concern of mine. In my ears all the cars using this new system sounds same-y. Like the underlaying sound is the same, just with different pitches or whatever the terminology is.

I would agree on the older ones using it. They seem to use variations of the same clip (97T/Ralt/R18/X1/X1 Jr)

The 3 most recent all sound different LM55, Visiv and infinity.


Just my guess is the first wave was like initial testing, the second wave is expanding upon that testing. I'm kinda looking at GT6 as a sound test system for GT7. They will try new things on new cars added and see how we'll its received. If I hear sound quality like the Visiv & LM55 there won't be anything to complain about, although since I live in an apartment building my neighbors have recently been complaining they don't like the Visiv or LM55 lol.


I can just see it now:

"GT6 new sounds got me evicted"

 

[Harsk100]

They changed it from GT5!?

Yes, they did.

See the comparison videos between GT5 and GT6:
In GT5 the Citroen sounded like a 4-cyl engine.


But in GT6, they changed to a V6 engine.


And the real sound is:


PD, how dare you ruining the sound of this Xsara?

 

[RACECAR]

Seems like they tried to pitch up one of the recycled samples and tried to match the rea lcar. Of course, that's not guaranteed to make a good result and unsurprisingly to be honest, neither sound like the real thing anyhow.