Goodbye Saturn, Hummer, & others; GM cut to 4

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DETROIT — The brand that was once hailed as an important part of the future of General Motors now will be part of its past.

G.M. said Tuesday that it would phase out its Saturn brand by 2012. It does not plan to develop any more new vehicles for Saturn, which began 19 years ago as an effort to attract owners of small Japanese cars.

G.M. also said it was considering its options for the Pontiac division. The Pontiac name, part of the car business since 1932, could remain on some models, but may no longer be a separate division. G.M. said Pontiac would be a “focused brand” with fewer models.

The disclosures by G.M., contained in a viability plan submitted to the government, means that G.M. plans to cut its brands in half, to four: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC.

It said last fall that it would try to find buyers for Hummer and Saab. On Tuesday, it said it would decide on Hummer’s fate by March 31.

But is four the right number?

After all, most of its big competitors, including Toyota, Honda and Chrysler, build their businesses around three brands or fewer in the United States. Ford is moving to shed its foreign brands and plans to focus primarily on three — Ford, Lincoln and Mercury.

“A volume brand and a premium brand can get the job done. Toyota has proven that,” said Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, a Web site that offers car-buying advice. “Cadillac, Chevy, done.”

The more brands a carmaker has, the more it must spread money around to develop vehicles and market them.

As a result, “every brand suffers,” said A. Andrew Shapiro, a managing partner with the Casesa Shapiro Group. “No particular brand or brands can achieve the share of voice that they need.”

Its extensive brand lineup has long been G.M.’s primary weapon. Founded in 1908 by William C. Durant, who brought together a collection of car companies, G.M. made the concept of “a car for every purse and purpose” its strategy during the 1920s for retaining buyers from their first car to their last.

Brands were a crucial element in G.M.’s effort to thwart Ford, then the country’s biggest car company, whose founder joked that buyers could have any color they wanted, as long as it was black.

G.M.’s strategy paid off during its best years, when it controlled more than half the American car market. But it held only 22 percent of United States auto sales last year, with more than half of its share coming from a single division, Chevrolet.

G.M. found out last decade just how expensive it could be to unwind a brand. It spent more than $1 billion to buy out dealers at Oldsmobile, which built its last cars in 2004.

Rick Wagoner, G.M.’s chief executive, said the automaker had set aside money to buy out dealers, but declined to specify a figure. “We have reserves in our plan to facilitate that,” he said.

He cited the economic downturn as the reason G.M. was phasing out Saturn. “Frankly, the opportunity for any brand, and for our volume as a whole, just looks radically different,” he said. “It is unfortunate and it seems like a cruel twist of fate at a time when Saturn is loaded up with a fantastic product portfolio.”

In a letter sent Tuesday to Saturn dealers, G.M. said it would entertain a plan from Saturn dealers or other investors for a spinoff of the division to keep it operating. It said it would provide information to potential investors.

But it warned a spinoff would be “a difficult and complex task, and some of the issues that must be resolved include product sourcing, capitalization and financing issues,” G.M. said in the letter signed by Mark LeNeve, a G.M. vice president for North American sales, and Jill Lajdziak, the general manager of Saturn.

When Saturn was started in 1990, as a “different kind of car, a different kind of car company” aimed at owners of small Hondas and Toyotas, its small cars were immediate hits. But G.M. executives decided in the mid-1990s that they needed to support G.M.’s other brands over Saturn, which by then had cost $5 billion.

G.M. did not add any new vehicles to the Saturn lineup for five years, despite pleas from dealers for bigger vehicles. Earlier this decade, G.M. decided to start selling vehicles from its Opel division, with some design changes, as Saturns in the United States.

Saturn sold 188,004 vehicles in 2008, down 21.7 percent from the previous year. Its best-selling vehicle was the Saturn Vue, a small sport utility vehicle.

Strict franchise laws protect dealers across the country from seeing their operations shut down without advance notice.

G.M. dealers said they were led to believe that the company was committed to the division.

“G.M. is picking on Saturn,” said Sherrill Freeborough, who owns Saturn dealerships in Grand Ledge and Okemos, Mich. “I want G.M. to be successful but I don’t think that always happens the other way around.”

In 1992, when G.M. began discussing the end of Oldsmobile, the division sold 412,000 vehicles. Except for Chevrolet, none of G.M.’s current brands sold that many vehicles last year.

Mr. Shapiro, the analyst, said G.M. should have rethought its divisions in the 1980s, when a number of new brands appeared in the United States, including Acura, Lexus and Infiniti, the Japanese luxury brands, and the Korean makers Hyundai and Kia.

“There were always good short-term reasons for not doing something,” Mr. Shapiro said.

Ed Dena, a Pontiac dealer in Dinuba, Calif., said he would eventually have to focus on his other G.M. brands, including Chevrolet, Buick and GMC. “Of course we’re sad because Pontiac is an icon,” he said. “But right now, in this industry, nothing is a shock anymore.”

Mary M. Chapman contributed reporting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/business/18brands.html?_r=1&hp

They're going to axe Pontiac & yet, keep GMC. Who thought that up?

But, it goes on.
DETROIT — The price tag for bailing out General Motors and Chrysler jumped by another $14 billion Tuesday, to $39 billion, with the two automakers saying they would need the additional aid from the federal government to remain solvent.

In return, the two companies also promised to make further drastic cuts to all parts of their operations, in the hope that they can eventually strike a balance between their bloated cost structures and a dismal market for new car sales.

G.M., for example, said it would cut 47,000 more of its 244,000 workers worldwide; close five more plants in North America, leaving it with 33; and cut its lineup of brands in half, to just four: Chevrolet, Cadillac, GMC and Buick.

The Pontiac brand will have a much smaller role, if any, in G.M.’s future, and the company also said it would phase out its Saturn brand, which it once hoped would build small cars to counter the best of the Japanese brands.

G.M. also said it had made progress in discussions with the United Automobile Workers union and its bondholders to reduce its costs further.

The cash crisis will require fast action by the administration’s new cabinet-level Presidential Task Force on Autos, which is overseeing the reorganization of G.M. and Chrysler.

The deteriorating finances of the two companies present the Obama administration with two options, neither of them appealing.

It can provide the money in the hopes that the companies will stabilize, and no longer have to keep pushing workers into a growing pool of people without jobs. But there are no guarantees, as the Treasury Department learned on Tuesday when the automakers filed updates on their restructuring plans, that they might not be forced to come back again with requests for more money.

But if the federal government balks at the automakers’ requests, that would mean the two companies probably would have no choice but to file for bankruptcy protection, because they are losing hundreds of millions of dollars each month.

And the car companies said on Tuesday that the cost of a bankruptcy reorganization, with the government providing financing to help it through that process, would be far greater than their latest loan requests. Without such help, the companies would have to liquidate, creating staggering new job losses.

In a statement, the administration said Tuesday night that its task force would be reviewing the carmakers’ reports in coming days, adding that “more will be required from everyone involved — creditors, suppliers, dealers, labor and auto executives themselves — to ensure the viability of these companies going forward.”

The third Detroit auto company, Ford Motor, has not received federal assistance and has no requests pending.

By March 31, the presidential task force is expected to rule on whether G.M. and Chrysler have restructured enough to be viable businesses for the long term.

Big questions remain, including whether G.M. and Chrysler, as well as Ford, will be able to cut their unionized labor costs to parity with foreign automakers, as was required in the original loan agreement from last December.

The companies have been in marathon negotiations with the United Automobile Workers on reducing costs, as well as determining how they will finance health care trusts for retired blue-collar workers and their surviving spouses.

G.M. is also pushing for a deal with its bondholders to help it reduce its debt to $9 billion, from $27 billion. The U.A.W. said on Tuesday it had reached “understandings” with the Detroit companies on modifications to their contracts. Ron Gettelfinger, the union’s president, said “discussions are continuing” regarding how to fund the health care trusts at each of the companies.

Rick Wagoner, G.M.’s chief executive, said there had been “good progress” in talks with both the union and bondholders.

On the concessions in the U.A.W. contract, he said, “the things that have been negotiated really take a big bite out of what needed to accomplish.”

G.M.’s restructuring plan extends to its global operations. It will cut 47,000 jobs worldwide by the end of this year. It also said it would close 14 plants in North America by 2012 — five more than were included in its Dec. 2 loan request.

Mr. Wagoner said on Tuesday that the revamping plan was “comprehensive, responsive and achievable,” and could help the company break even by 2010. Both G.M. and Chrysler said they expected to begin paying back their federal loans by 2012.

A bankruptcy filing, Mr. Wagoner said, would be a “highly risky and costly process.” G.M.’s president, Frederick Henderson, said the company would require as much as $100 billion in debtor-in-possession financing from the federal government if it filed for Chapter 11. Chrysler said it would need $25 billion if that step were required.

G.M. and Chrysler admitted that their current federal loans would be exhausted by March 31.

G.M. said Tuesday that it had increased its overall loan request from the government to a total of $30 billion, up from $18 billion.

The company has received $13.4 billion so far from Treasury, and the most recent installment — $4 billion — was turned over to G.M. on Tuesday.

But G.M. said that loan would not last long. Company officials said they hoped to receive another $2 billion loan in March and $2.6 billion in April. Beyond that, G.M. is asking for another $12 billion by 2011 — $7.5 billion in loans and $4.5 billion to pay off a credit facility that comes due.

Chrysler, which has received $4 billion in loans, also increased its overall request for funding. In December, it said it needed $3 billion more to survive 2009, but it raised that request to $5 billion.

The smallest of Detroit’s Big Three, Chrysler has drastically scaled back its operations since being acquired in 2007 by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management.

On Tuesday, Chrysler said it would cut another 3,000 jobs and discontinue three models — the Dodge Durango, P.T. Cruiser and Chrysler Aspen.

“Chrysler will be viable,” said the company’s chairman, Robert L. Nardelli. “An orderly restructuring outside of bankruptcy, together with the completion of our stand-alone viability plan and enhanced by a strategic alliance with Fiat, is the best option for Chrysler employees, our unions, dealers, suppliers, customers, and certainly the taxpayers.” The company is exploring a deal with Fiat to share products.

But Mr. Nardelli said Chrysler would have to consider liquidating itself in the event that it received no more federal aid.

G.M. executives sidestepped questions on Tuesday on whether they had been given any assurances by administration officials about additional loans. “They fully understood we would be coming in with additional requests,” said Ray Young, G.M.’s chief financial officer.

But the possibility exists of a negative political reaction to the administration’s pouring more taxpayers’ money into the companies, especially when they continue to operate at huge losses.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/business/18auto.html?_r=1&hp
 
Thats amazing why is Buick still a player in this. GMC may be more profitable to GM due to fleet vehicles,but buick?
 
Thats amazing why is Buick still a player in this. GMC may be more profitable to GM due to fleet vehicles,but buick?

Buick is huge in China. ^^

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What is the point in keeping Pontiac? What do they produce (except maybe the G8) that is worthwhile to keep?
 
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That doesn't mean anything for the American market, which sold more of these (by which I mean one model by itself):
2008.gmc.sierra%201500.20139333-396x249.jpg

Than they sold of these:
Buick_logo.jpg

You don't have to keep a perennial money loser in one region just because it makes money elsewhere. On top of that, Pontiac sales and Buick sales are something like 2:1 (and Saturn sales are pretty much the same). So, essentially, GM has just committed itself to throw away nearly 600,000 sales to keep 150,000.
 
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While it might not mean anything for the American market - a good point to note is that China now sells more cars than the U.S does.

Not to mention how HUGE Buick is there. Evidently, they (with more information than we have) made the decision that Buick was worthwhile to keep for some reason.
 
Two quick points then I'm out.
  • I don't want Uncle Sam involved in any internal automotive industry dealings. YOU HEAR ME OBAMA!
  • I don't like GM getting rid of Pontiac.
 
Wow, the performance division will become history, and the history division becomes the performance one. So much for the one division (Saturn) that has repeat sales and cares a little about its clientele.

Massive re-structuring...Chevy shouldn't sell any more trucks or vans or SUVs, make it all GMC's job. Cadillac has the niche that Buick once had, except Buick doesn't mean much in US sales. Maybe Cadillac is going even further upstream?

Hummer might as well be part of GMC; Saab will find a home somewhere else.
 
I am shocked to hear they are getting rid of Saturn. Quite possibly the best and most reliable cars we have owned. Very cheap on insurance, dent resistant panels, and very good gas mileage ranging from 30mpg to 40mpg. They seriously dont seem to make the right decisions do they. :ill:
 
What is the point in keeping Pontiac? What do they produce (except maybe the G8) that is worthwhile to keep?

I'm kinda both ways on this topic. Pontiac ranks third of all GM brands for vehicles sold in January, although it is also tanking the fastest. My guess is that GM wants this brand to pull it's weight with the G6, Vibe and Solstice, but who knows. The G6 is a terrible car (from everything I've heard), I haven't really heard anything about the new Vibe and the Solstice is a cool car, although the economy isn't right for it right now.

The G8, G5, G3 and SUVs they can kill. It'd be sad to see the G8 go, but they just aren't moving. And I could possibly see there being some sales in the G5 and G3, but only if Pontiac keeps selling these (at a significant discount) as the new Chevy replacement cars come out.

You don't have to keep a perennial money loser in one region just because it makes money elsewhere. On top of that, Pontiac sales and Buick sales are something like 2:1 (and Saturn sales are pretty much the same). So, essentially, GM has just committed itself to throw away nearly 600,000 sales to keep 150,000.

Buick was the fifth best selling brand under GM in January (1000 better than Saturn). Perhaps GM is hoping that some new vehicles will put the brand back into contention. I really don't know what Buick is doing though. I can't even figure out what market segment they are shooting for. I don't see why Cadillac can't just sell both the sporty luxury cars and the floaty luxury cars at the same time.

JCE
  • I don't want Uncle Sam involved in any internal automotive industry dealings. YOU HEAR ME OBAMA!
  • I don't like GM getting rid of Pontiac.

1. One thing that I can see actually helping GM quite a bit from the Car Committee is if it forces them to think harder about developing new products and how they will fit into the market. Perhaps the Saturn disaster could have been helped if they had thought more about everything?

2. Pontiac will still be around. I don't know what's going to happen to them, but they'll be selling cars.

They need to keep some sort of small rear drive sports car. Camaro and Corvette? **** that.

First of all, that should be the least of GM's worries. Cool cars are cool, but the economy is in no situation for those to be profitable.

Second, they'll be keeping the Solstice around.
 
Buick was the fifth best selling brand under GM in January (1000 better than Saturn).
Saturn is also the only GM brand in the past 20 years that has ever been run in a sane way. Saturn owners are repeat owners who come back because they like what the brand offers (or at least what it used to offer) and felt that they were cared about by the company. Buick owners are people who can't afford Toyota Avalons.
The only reason that Saturn sales have been slumping as of late (and they still outsold Buick last year) is because GM has been mismanaging the brand on an epic scale. As said by buickgnx88 in the other thread, its hard to care about Saturn now compared to Saturn of 1995. Similarly, as I said in the other thread, the only reason GM needs to cut brands is because they don't know why they need to cut brands.
GM management is as idiotic as it has ever been, and slashing brands, especially brands with a potential future use, will not fix anything. Ask Chrysler what happens when you kill off a brand that happens to have strong sales and a viable sales strategy, because you don't get those sales back in your other brands. Forget about rebadging, Chrysler literally sold the exact same car under two different brands (and the rest of the range was literally a grill swap), and they still couldn't recoup the sales numbers when they made Plymouth go bye bye.
GM doesn't need to cut any brands if they could find a place for them. And the only one they can't find a place for is Buick. The problem is that they don't know that fact. They think there are too many brands, completely ignoring the fact that they made half of the brands they have irrelavent. And that they did this on purpose. The fact that they think slashing brands will solve the problem shows that they are no wiser now than they were ten years ago.


Perhaps GM is hoping that some new vehicles will put the brand back into contention.
They said the same thing about Oldsmobile, except Oldsmobile actually had pretty good cars at the time. Buick has a rebadged version of the worst Cadillac you can buy, and a slightly better version of the chintziest Chevrolet you can buy. They also have more expensive versions of otherwise-identicle GMC vehicles.
And they still cannot sell anything.
 
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I'll be in line to buy me a new Saturn Vue for $10.50 on their last day of business, thank you very much.
 
I never did understand the GMC brand. They're the same exact trucks as Chevy, except they have a nicer Denali option. Chevy and GMC both offer work versions, 2wd, 4wd, long bed, crew cab, you name it, they both offer the exact same thing except Denali. They even offer the same commercial and heavy duty platforms but with different badges!

Ford has all its trucks offered not only in one brand, but one model, the F150. From 2wd short bed V6 work truck to 4wd crew cab luxury totted-up Denali-beating Platinum version, they're all offered on one model. And then you've simply got the heavier duty models above it.

Chevrolet and GMC trucks are completely redundant. I think they should just add Denali or something like that to Chevy and get rid of GMC.
 
Most divisions did have purpose a long time ago.

The China reason is a big reason. When you're selling hundreds of thousands of Buicks in China, there is no reason to cut the brand. But yes, absolutely they have no identifiable place. They used to be for technological innovation (I know) but not anymore. Not since the late 80s, really.

I think that there is a lot more to consider than just sales here. We have to look at profit margins, the cost of parts and many, many other variables. They have all that information.

Saturn was gearing up to be a "European" brand importing Opels, essentially, but then the dollar fell out of favour and that plan is no longer as viable as it once was. Though it may have recovered, car development lags behind. I was actually hoping for Opels here.

And GMC I can see them keeping for commercial trucks. They can eliminate any Chevrolet commercial trucks and just have GMC as their "truck brand".
 
Hey, guys read the stuff on the internet:

PONTIAC ISN'T DEAD

Pontiac is being moved into the Buick and GMC product channels becoming a "niche" brand. The only models likely to survive, at least for now, will be the G8, Solstice and Vibe. Lets be honest with ourselves, they're the only models that matter right now. Until GM gets their product portfolios completely figured out, this presumably is the best move they could make in order to keep the brand alive.

RE: Saturn

It was fun while it lasted, but I'd much rather have Buick around than the ol' plastic pals. I think the death-blow to the brand was the Ion, which completely solidified the negative feelings towards it overall. I don't blame the kicking and screaming that is going on behind it, the dealers want to organize to make their own brand out of it (get China on the phone!), but we'll see.

RE: What I'm Most-Concerned About

Coinciding with the release of General Motors' Viability Plan, the automaker has disbanded its High Performance Vehicle Operations team, the crew responsible for the line V-series Cadillacs, the Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS and the V8 version of the Colorado. According to Vince Muniga, a spokesman for the General, "All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold. The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs." Muniga went on to say that there are no plans for high-performance versions of upcoming plans, but once (if?) GM is in a better financial position, the team could be reinstated.

Considering that these were some of their best products, yes, that is very worrying for me.
 
Considering that these were some of their best products, yes, that is very worrying for me.

Worrying for me, as well. The Cobalt SS was finally kicking butt, and the CTS-V is a great performance value.

Just when they were doing their best work, they get cut. >_<
 
Chevrolet and GMC trucks are completely redundant. I think they should just add Denali or something like that to Chevy and get rid of GMC.

Exactly what I was thinking. Keep Pontiac, and merge GMC with Chevrolet. No need to keep both around.
 
I never did understand the GMC brand. They're the same exact trucks as Chevy, except they have a nicer Denali option. Chevy and GMC both offer work versions, 2wd, 4wd, long bed, crew cab, you name it, they both offer the exact same thing except Denali. They even offer the same commercial and heavy duty platforms but with different badges!
As I understand it, GMC has always (ignoring the commercial sales) been like GM's Mercury: It doesn't really make any sense, but it still paradoxically manages to work. And Chevrolet can't very well get rid of their trucks because they sell lots of them too.

LongbowX
Saturn was gearing up to be a "European" brand importing Opels, essentially, but then the dollar fell out of favour and that plan is no longer as viable as it once was.
Which, to be honest, was a thoroughly stupid plan anyways. Saturn dumped their uniqueness and different ideals (and point) in the GM lineup. In return, we got crappier versions of cars we already had (Astra); or the "game changing" vehicles were immediately followed by far better versions at other places (Aura/Malibu). Even ignoring the imported Opels that were already merely rebadged Chevrolets. In essence, trying to make Saturn into "Opel for America" made things even worse then they were before; and it would have happened that way regardless of any economic foibles. Largely because we already had an "Opel for America," by the name of Chevrolet; which GM execs for some reason completely missed.
Saturn originally was very different from the rest of GM, and GM execs forgot bringing over a brand stable that fits a certain niche in one country doesn't work if you already have that niche filled (See: Merkur, Eagle, Geo, etc.).

To be honest, I'm not really mad that they killed off Saturn. I'm actually mad that they dragged it through awful for 5 years before deciding to do so. What bothers me more is that instead of the logical Chevy-Cadillac-Pontiac (and maybe GMC), we got the inane Chevy-Cadillac-GMC and Buick (which notably competes for sales with GMC, Chevy and Cadillac all at once).
 
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Ask Chrysler what happens when you kill off a brand that happens to have strong sales and a viable sales strategy, because you don't get those sales back in your other brands. Forget about rebadging, Chrysler literally sold the exact same car under two different brands (and the rest of the range was literally a grill swap), and they still couldn't recoup the sales numbers when they made Plymouth go bye bye.

Do we know if Saturn was making or losing GM money? Because, as sad as it would be to see a brand go, and even if it could become very profitable in the long run, I would rather see GM kill it and survive than let it survive and have it kill GM.

And, to be honest, at this point there is no point to keep Saturn anyway. GM killed the brand when they decided they wanted to change it's image. It is already dead, but just hanging around. It isn't going to accomplish anything in it's present state, and making the brand profitable is going to require a huge investment that GM can't afford. So there is nothing that can be done with it anyway.

Chevrolet and GMC trucks are completely redundant. I think they should just add Denali or something like that to Chevy and get rid of GMC.

I don't know if anybody gets it. Yet GMC is GM's second best selling brand. Maybe that has to do with the market for work trucks that will always be around as long as people are building stuff. And then there is the whole fan base thing. If GM killed GMC, I wouldn't be surprised to see those fans get mad and go over to other companies instead.

Considering that these were some of their best products, yes, that is very worrying for me.

I actually think that's a good decision. Sure, it's always cool to have sporty cars and things around, but in a recession/depression, there really isn't any need for anything sporty.

Exactly what I was thinking. Keep Pontiac, and merge GMC with Chevrolet. No need to keep both around.

How exactly do you merge two brands? Especially something like GMC and Chevy. Wouldn't it turn out exactly the same way as killing a brand in the end?
 
Do we know if Saturn was making or losing GM money?

I think it depends on who you ask and what kind of stuff we're talking about. As Toronado pointed out, the overshadowing of better products essentially destroyed sales for the brand. The Outlook launched well, the Enclave killed it. The Aura did the same, and the Malibu killed it. The Astra was doing well in the beginning, and then was swept aside by the Vibe and Cobalt XFE.

Keeping Saturn open, operating and developing new products was likely running up costs at GM that they were slowly realizing won't worth it. Six to eight months ago, they announced that the next-gen Aura would be delayed, and that presumably was the beginning of the end for the brand on the whole. Their best-selling vehicle was put out to pasture before it had even put in two seasons on the market.

I'm under the assumption that if GM literally made the Opel --> Saturn transition happen within two years, the actual investment to have all of those models certified, tested, and the marketing required to make a splash... It wouldn't have been enough to keep the brand afloat into 2012 or 2013.

It will be interesting to see if a GM-free Saturn could outdo itself in a previous form, be it from some kind of private investment, or from the purchase by another company. It kinda makes me wonder if someone like Peugeot/Citroen would want to buy the Saturn brand to push their goods in the US under a familiar brand, or for that matter, a company like BYD or Geeley.

Regardless of owner, if someone "reset the clock" on Saturn to go back to a 1995-style model, they'd bring in a lot of sales. Four-pot only coupes and sedans, skip the crossovers, and offer stripper models. People will buy if they know its a good value and built well, Saturn just hasn't done that since the last century.

If GM killed GMC, I wouldn't be surprised to see those fans get mad and go over to other companies instead.

I think that was the main argument against killing it outright. With some afterthought, I've realized that for sure, there are people who are die-hard GMC fans that won't buy any truck unless its one of their trucks, even if its exactly the same as a Silverado or Tahoe.

How exactly do you merge two brands? Especially something like GMC and Chevy. Wouldn't it turn out exactly the same way as killing a brand in the end?

The notion of merging brands I think comes out of two different models, at least in the GM portfolio:

1) See the Daewoo --> Chevrolet changeup in international markets, essentially re-designing and re-badging Daewoo products as Chevrolets. In most cases the cars were dramatically improved in order to avoid tarnishing the nameplate, but nevertheless, its still a Daewoo in most circumstances. But, its worked out well, and the Chevrolet brand is now firmly established in emerging markets around the world.

2) See the Buick -- Pontiac -- GMC workings as of late. The movement in GM was to bring together the "BPG" dealers to essentially form a single brand. Pontiac would handle lower-level and "normal" cars, Buick going for the mid-size and slightly more luxurious models, and GMC would handle the trucks and SUVs. Knowing whats going on with Pontiac, we're going to see that continue... Albeit at an expedited rate. My guess is that the G3 may not show up, the G5 will likely be dead in the water, the Vibe will continue, along with the G8 and Solstice.

The G6 issue will likely be the biggest one, as the LaCrosse is slightly larger than the Malibu, but not nearly as big as the Lucerne. This leaves a "gap" in the BPG lineup, and with the G6 clearly not up to snuff (despite its semi-attractive update for 2009), and the Regal due for action, but now perhaps delayed... What will they do?

===============

Which Brings Me to My Last Point... What Should Survive?

Chevrolet
Aveo --> Spark
Cobalt --> Cruze
HHR --> Orlando
Volt
Malibu --> Malibu (needs to go to EPII soon)
Impala --> KIA?
Camaro
Corvette
Equinox --> Equinox (replacing VUE)
Traverse
Silverado
Tahoe --> KIA
Suburban --> KIA

Pontiac
Vibe
G6 --> Buick Regal
G8
Solstice

Buick
"Skylark" (Buick needs a premium compact)
Regal
LaCrosse
Lucerne --> Lambda/EPII Hybrid
Enclave

GMC
Acadia --> KIA?
Sierra
Yukon
Yukon XL

Saab (Sold, Dead or Integrated?)
- 9-3 and 9-3X
- 9-5 --> EPII

Cadillac
BLS --> Alpha BLS
"Voltec" Sedan
CTS & CTC
STS --> Lambda/EPII Hybrid
DTS --> KIA
SRX
Escalade --> Lambda Plus

Shift out models, and bring in the good stuff. We need more diesel options (which makes killing Saab difficult), we need more small options (hence the Skylark), and certainly we need to get the PHV models out ASAP.
 
I'd actually be surprised if the Tahoe/Suburban/Escalade range (particularly the Escalade) ended up dying or being repositioned as car based. Because Chevrolet needs the Silverado, it really doesn't cost anything to keep them around. In fact, I've read theories (I think Automobile talked about it) that GM may keep the Tahoe/Suburban and their twins around purely because of the Escalade. Other than cost problems ($37,000 starting price!), the Lambda twins ironically don't really do anything better than the GMT 900 SUVs anyways.
 
I never really understoof the point of the Lambda trucks. They're just as big as the SUVs, but they have smaller engines. So why not just give the SUVs smaller engines? Nobody will ever know, lol.

YSSMAN, I'm going to copy your list and add my own modifications, in bold.

Chevrolet
Aveo --> Spark
Cobalt --> Cruze
HHR --> Orlando
Volt
Malibu --> Malibu (needs to go to EPII soon)
Impala --> KIA?
Camaro
Corvette
Equinox --> Equinox (replacing VUE)
Traverse --> KIA
Silverado
Tahoe
Suburban

Pontiac
Vibe
G6 --> KIA
G8
Solstice

Buick
"Skylark" (Buick needs a premium compact)
Regal
LaCrosse
Lucerne --> Lambda/EPII Hybrid (Genesis competitor)
Enclave

GMC --> KIA
Acadia
Sierra
Yukon
Yukon XL

Saab (Sold, Dead or Integrated?)
- 9-3 and 9-3X
- 9-5 --> EPII

Cadillac
BLS --> Alpha BLS
"Voltec" Sedan
CTS & CTC
STS --> KIA
DTS --> Eventual 7-Series, S-Class fighter
SRX
Escalade --> Lambda Plus (whatever that is)
 
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It seems that for the most part, we're on the same page Keef.

RE: Traverse

I really think that can go either way, and it would depend on two things: Whether or not the Escalade goes to the Lambda chassis (Lambda Plus would be an extended size version of the chassis), and whether or not the Acadia survives. I'd like to see the Traverse and "Traverse Plus" replace the Tahoe and Suburban, but that probably won't happen.

RE: G6 and Regal

I think for GM, right now, its one or the other. I'd have the Regal/Insignia before a redone G6, which likely wouldn't happen for years anyway. Thing is, its going to have to be smaller than the LaCrosse, and I have idea if it actually is or not.

RE: Lucerne & DTS

The death of the L-Body is imminent, so something needs to happen. It sounds like the idea of a stretched Zeta chassis to underpin some kind of 7-series competitor has been shelved for Cadillac, and the only standing idea that I've continue to hear of is some kind of hybrid of the Lambda and Epsilon-II chassis to underpin the Lucerne. It would be a solid unibody, allow for a wide range of engine and drivetrain options, and make itself expandable. The thing is, we really only need one. With the STS already so large, and its future relatively unknown (so far, no plans to place it on Sigma-II), it seems difficult to see a DTS coming out any time soon.

I'd go for a Genesis/MKS fighter with a new Lucerne, but thats just me.
 
It seems that for the most part, we're on the same page Keef.

RE: Traverse

I really think that can go either way, and it would depend on two things: Whether or not the Escalade goes to the Lambda chassis (Lambda Plus would be an extended size version of the chassis), and whether or not the Acadia survives. I'd like to see the Traverse and "Traverse Plus" replace the Tahoe and Suburban, but that probably won't happen.
Though most people don't use their Tahoes and Suburbans to haul and tow stuff, making them unibodies would make the people who do shop elsewhere. Same goes for the Escalade, on a surprising scale. An Escalade will tow a 26 footer, but an Acadia Plus Denali V12 could never even dream of it.

RE: G6 and Regal

I think for GM, right now, its one or the other. I'd have the Regal/Insignia before a redone G6, which likely wouldn't happen for years anyway. Thing is, its going to have to be smaller than the LaCrosse, and I have idea if it actually is or not.
The newly redesigned LaCrosse is on the same chassis as the Chinese Regal and Opel Insignia. The Regal was designed for China, the Insignia for Europe, and the LaCrosse for here. I populated my list based on the American market.

RE: Lucerne & DTS

The death of the L-Body is imminent, so something needs to happen. It sounds like the idea of a stretched Zeta chassis to underpin some kind of 7-series competitor has been shelved for Cadillac, and the only standing idea that I've continue to hear of is some kind of hybrid of the Lambda and Epsilon-II chassis to underpin the Lucerne. It would be a solid unibody, allow for a wide range of engine and drivetrain options, and make itself expandable. The thing is, we really only need one. With the STS already so large, and its future relatively unknown (so far, no plans to place it on Sigma-II), it seems difficult to see a DTS coming out any time soon.

I'd go for a Genesis/MKS fighter with a new Lucerne, but thats just me.
I think the STS needs to be gotten rid of. It doesn't fit intoCaddy's lineup anymore since the CTS is completely redone and is about the size of a 5-Series. I agree something smaller to compete with the 3-Series might be a good idea, but of course it's not going to be as good as the 3 because nothing ever is. BTW, this so-called BLS would need to be RWD. Maybe for the time being GM should just get rid of the DTS and Lucerne. Maybe they could make a Lucerne based on the G8's chassis, but they'd have to refine it and soften it a bit. And give it a hella facelift.
 
The newly redesigned LaCrosse is on the same chassis as the Chinese Regal and Opel Insignia. The Regal was designed for China, the Insignia for Europe, and the LaCrosse for here. I populated my list based on the American market.

I wonder if Buick (who already has an identity crisis) is going to be the next brand to become totally lost and go all Euro or international and die...
 
According to GMI, Buick and Opel are due to get "chummy" due mostly to the influx of Opel models into Buick China's lineup, and the subsequent streamlining of the Buick brand as a whole between the Chinese and North American markets. I'm not complaining, Buick China sells vastly superior products compared to what we have here.
 
One thing that I think SHOULD stay from Saturn...(and be extended to the entire lineup) is Saturn's no hassle buying experience. One of the worst things that I've heard about US Carmakers is people dealing with dealerships - but Saturn's never been that way.
 
According to GMI, Buick and Opel are due to get "chummy" due mostly to the influx of Opel models into Buick China's lineup, and the subsequent streamlining of the Buick brand as a whole between the Chinese and North American markets. I'm not complaining, Buick China sells vastly superior products compared to what we have here.

When will they learn? :banghead:

RIP Buick?
 
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