- 391
- Sydney
- Daisey327
Yes the issue is completely with Apple and their review service. It's been a week now and it has only made it from "waiting for review" to "in review". We are unhappy with the service but this is all Apple.
Gran Praiano 6 (App Discussion, FAQ, Feedback and Questions)
- Thread starter Daisey327
- 249 comments
- 31,887 views
- 12,639
- paracuru
- praiano63
Hello. Daisey have a prolem with his internet connection that will be fixed only day 2 of april ,he will not able to install the update in APP & IOS till this date
For this time the new update with the 5 old racers will be published in my GTP garage first.
Sorry for this.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°
For this time the new update with the 5 old racers will be published in my GTP garage first.
Sorry for this.
><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°°°
- 391
- Sydney
- Daisey327
- 87
- australia
- hotdogxx60
- 414
- Victoria, B.C.
- skypilotrv4
Hi Daisey,When Mr P tells me he has a fresh batch then I do my best to update ASAP. No formal schedules for our hobby
I just got the Apple app on my ancient iphone last night and it was so cool, zipping through the tunes instead of sifting through a bazillion printouts for the Praiano tune. Thank you both very much.
Cheers, Mustangxr
- 158
- COTA
- speedrcr
I'd like to give some feedback in regards to the R-Rwd tunes. Maybe harsh but read all the way through to understand.
First I'm a customer (bought Android App) and wanting to give feedback for perhaps some better tunes in the future*.
Also I'm not objecting to the tunes as some of them are quite exceptional.
Yet I'm having troubles understanding that the tunes for the Ruf's are better then my own home brew tunes for these cars. Granted I probably have a better understanding for Rear Engine Vehicle physics and PMI (Polar Moment of Inertia, aka Rotational Inertia, aka Angular Mass), as I race Porsche's in many different games and tune accordingly to what the developer has left you with to extract as much lateral G's as I can. I too am imperfect in my moments and like a mad scientist I still run my Ruf's, researching and studying how the car handles. Some even ask me why don't I race other cars (which I have), but I found these more interesting and rewarding for the driving that I do (slow in; fast out).
Now with that said, I know the 911. I know what braking does to it, I know what accelerating does to it. I decided to try your tunes and see how they would do, and with out even trying I was skeptical since the settings you have are more of a crap shoot then a study of what mechanics are really behind it. I'm not saying you are a fraud, nor am I saying I want my money back. But what I am saying is that the settings you gave for the RGT, BTR, and Yellowbird were outlandish and uncanny.
Now I'm not here to toot my own horn, but the tunes didn't really look like anything that took a bit of thought. For instance toe angles, spring rates, and shock dampening that just don't make any sense and were more of "yep lets try those" as picked whimsically. Granted sometimes setting up a car takes a bit of that and most here with no real world knowledge (no understanding of what cars actually do underneath when they corner, brake, or accelerate) setup their cars by doing so, but I'd hope from paying for an application you use some kind of educated guess. (But then again yes, this is a video game.)
What disturbs me the most is the settings you have are of that of someone that obviously knows nothing about how spring rates really work when translating mass from a rearward position, nor shock dampening for a car that has literally no mass upfront.
I'd suggest you revisit the suspension settings and maybe give your customers a bit more for their money if this is an actual representation of the rest of your settings.
Some settings I have found have been pretty good, others have been as I stated before an act of "whimsical dart throwing". Now to be fair, most of the settings some have shared on the forums have been uneducated (meaning no real knowledge of tuning cars for performance or the lack of understanding), and yes your tunes do "work".
Granted I know this application is a constant work in progress, and this is mere feedback to encourage accuracy in your settings to encourage trust in your application. At the moment it's (trust) lacking as I don't know what settings to trust and what not to trust.
May I suggest that you read a book, article, journal, or something about vehicle geometry and suspension physics in general, difference between the various types of suspensions (and understand their physics) and maybe revisit your product in order to give us a product that we can take better care to trust.
Now if you must know I was able to clip 7.12 seconds from using my home brew settings on the RGT compared to your settings. Your settings lack proper weight transfer in order to get the controllable PMI to make the 911 hum on the turns as it is intended to do so.
I'm not an expert on Porsche tuning, yet I'm very familiar with them and tuning the geometry of these cars starting from GTR, GTR 2, Rfactor, Race07, Forza's (that did have them), GT 2+ and have driven and ridden in a variety of 930's (SC), 928's (S4), 944's (turbo), 964's(C4s, turbo), 993's (C2), and 997's (RS). I also have the fortunate nature of having a friend who works at a performance shop specialized in balance and tuning of these vehicles and have seen the multi million dollar rig used to figure out Center of Gravity of various vehicles, and is used extensively in track tuning.
Now I understand this is a game, and nothing is perfect, but considering how the game has become more accurate in Suspension phyiscs, so has the tuning become closer to real life. The only exception and lacking component of this game is real life figures then empty "units" and values on an adjustment chart. We don't know where we are starting from (with exception of Spring rates) and its frustrating knowing where you are actually at.
With this "constructive feedback" or criticism I hope this helps, I say it like it is with no candy or iced coating only to help.
Also even though it's perhaps not your preference to run with Racing Slick tires, most of us that have had real "track day" time know you don't show up to a track day in DOT tires if you are able to afford it and want to really "run" your car. Please if anything, add some settings with Racing Slick tires, because if I really took a sports car to the track and could afford it, I'd run some soft compound racing slick tires...I wouldn't be driving with Seasonal sport tires.
I hate it when people think they're a boss because they can run Comfort Soft tires semi fast, to me that means someone has too much time on their hands and are bored, not because they are "good".
First I'm a customer (bought Android App) and wanting to give feedback for perhaps some better tunes in the future*.
Also I'm not objecting to the tunes as some of them are quite exceptional.
Yet I'm having troubles understanding that the tunes for the Ruf's are better then my own home brew tunes for these cars. Granted I probably have a better understanding for Rear Engine Vehicle physics and PMI (Polar Moment of Inertia, aka Rotational Inertia, aka Angular Mass), as I race Porsche's in many different games and tune accordingly to what the developer has left you with to extract as much lateral G's as I can. I too am imperfect in my moments and like a mad scientist I still run my Ruf's, researching and studying how the car handles. Some even ask me why don't I race other cars (which I have), but I found these more interesting and rewarding for the driving that I do (slow in; fast out).
Now with that said, I know the 911. I know what braking does to it, I know what accelerating does to it. I decided to try your tunes and see how they would do, and with out even trying I was skeptical since the settings you have are more of a crap shoot then a study of what mechanics are really behind it. I'm not saying you are a fraud, nor am I saying I want my money back. But what I am saying is that the settings you gave for the RGT, BTR, and Yellowbird were outlandish and uncanny.
Now I'm not here to toot my own horn, but the tunes didn't really look like anything that took a bit of thought. For instance toe angles, spring rates, and shock dampening that just don't make any sense and were more of "yep lets try those" as picked whimsically. Granted sometimes setting up a car takes a bit of that and most here with no real world knowledge (no understanding of what cars actually do underneath when they corner, brake, or accelerate) setup their cars by doing so, but I'd hope from paying for an application you use some kind of educated guess. (But then again yes, this is a video game.)
What disturbs me the most is the settings you have are of that of someone that obviously knows nothing about how spring rates really work when translating mass from a rearward position, nor shock dampening for a car that has literally no mass upfront.
I'd suggest you revisit the suspension settings and maybe give your customers a bit more for their money if this is an actual representation of the rest of your settings.
Some settings I have found have been pretty good, others have been as I stated before an act of "whimsical dart throwing". Now to be fair, most of the settings some have shared on the forums have been uneducated (meaning no real knowledge of tuning cars for performance or the lack of understanding), and yes your tunes do "work".
Granted I know this application is a constant work in progress, and this is mere feedback to encourage accuracy in your settings to encourage trust in your application. At the moment it's (trust) lacking as I don't know what settings to trust and what not to trust.
May I suggest that you read a book, article, journal, or something about vehicle geometry and suspension physics in general, difference between the various types of suspensions (and understand their physics) and maybe revisit your product in order to give us a product that we can take better care to trust.
Now if you must know I was able to clip 7.12 seconds from using my home brew settings on the RGT compared to your settings. Your settings lack proper weight transfer in order to get the controllable PMI to make the 911 hum on the turns as it is intended to do so.
I'm not an expert on Porsche tuning, yet I'm very familiar with them and tuning the geometry of these cars starting from GTR, GTR 2, Rfactor, Race07, Forza's (that did have them), GT 2+ and have driven and ridden in a variety of 930's (SC), 928's (S4), 944's (turbo), 964's(C4s, turbo), 993's (C2), and 997's (RS). I also have the fortunate nature of having a friend who works at a performance shop specialized in balance and tuning of these vehicles and have seen the multi million dollar rig used to figure out Center of Gravity of various vehicles, and is used extensively in track tuning.
Now I understand this is a game, and nothing is perfect, but considering how the game has become more accurate in Suspension phyiscs, so has the tuning become closer to real life. The only exception and lacking component of this game is real life figures then empty "units" and values on an adjustment chart. We don't know where we are starting from (with exception of Spring rates) and its frustrating knowing where you are actually at.
With this "constructive feedback" or criticism I hope this helps, I say it like it is with no candy or iced coating only to help.
Also even though it's perhaps not your preference to run with Racing Slick tires, most of us that have had real "track day" time know you don't show up to a track day in DOT tires if you are able to afford it and want to really "run" your car. Please if anything, add some settings with Racing Slick tires, because if I really took a sports car to the track and could afford it, I'd run some soft compound racing slick tires...I wouldn't be driving with Seasonal sport tires.
I hate it when people think they're a boss because they can run Comfort Soft tires semi fast, to me that means someone has too much time on their hands and are bored, not because they are "good".
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Do you realize that your entire wall of text says absolutely nothing?
What specific problems are you having, with which vehicles? On which tracks?
All the books on automotive physics, geometry and race car tuning go out the window when tuning for an imperfect video game. Granted, some of the best tunes from some of the best tuners look ridiculous compared to real world setups. That is because the tools are limited, and some even have the opposite effects they would have in real life (camber and ride height are two examples). But they work! Praiano, Motorcity Hami, and the other top tuners are successful because they have let go of traditional notions of real world tuning, and they have figured out what works best in the confines of the game.
- 12,639
- paracuru
- praiano63
Post yours tunes to share all yours (porsche platform) knowledges with everybody here in GTP, it´ll be a pleasure for me and everybody to test. Why not your own garage ???
For my RUF tunes, this is the way i like to drive them in the game. I don´t know how a porsche drive, i don´t and i will never have money to buy or test a real one.
Like i say, i´m just a fake tuners of fakes cars.
About your suggestion \\read a book, article, journal, or something about vehicle geometry and suspension physics in general// i think that to not know a lot about can help to tune in this game. You say that \\the game become more accurate in Suspension phyiscs// ???? I don´t think so. At least the ride height is backward and the springs value are not very accurate and you need some unconventional tricks to make a car work well in GT6.
Sorry for you if you waste your money with my garage.
For my RUF tunes, this is the way i like to drive them in the game. I don´t know how a porsche drive, i don´t and i will never have money to buy or test a real one.
Like i say, i´m just a fake tuners of fakes cars.
About your suggestion \\read a book, article, journal, or something about vehicle geometry and suspension physics in general// i think that to not know a lot about can help to tune in this game. You say that \\the game become more accurate in Suspension phyiscs// ???? I don´t think so. At least the ride height is backward and the springs value are not very accurate and you need some unconventional tricks to make a car work well in GT6.
Sorry for you if you waste your money with my garage.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
Speedrcr, I am assuming you are a " real world" driver. Well this game is not real world nor is it close. If you are taken back by his tunes or tuning theory maybe one of your mechanics or setup men should come on here and give us a tutorial on how PD messed up " a real world Ruf" Your wall of text was awesome. Now maybe go tune some cars, don't forget the arse backwards suspension geometry, flawed tire physics terrible aero and post them. Gladly waiting.
P is one of the best tuners in this game. Its a video game.
P is one of the best tuners in this game. Its a video game.
JogoAsobi
Premium
- 2,578
This link puts the wall of text into better context.
We really do need a filterable online LB for GT6...
...helps filter out stench of natural fertilizer.
Next round of Seasonal TTs comes up in a couple of days.
No doubt, at least one event will feature a tunable car.
Bring it on Texas Ruf man, lets see what you've got.
We really do need a filterable online LB for GT6...
...helps filter out stench of natural fertilizer.
Next round of Seasonal TTs comes up in a couple of days.
No doubt, at least one event will feature a tunable car.
Bring it on Texas Ruf man, lets see what you've got.
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- 158
- COTA
- speedrcr
Well as far as the Jogo as shown I can't "drive" due to some stat run page ....gee I feel ashamed. Obviously you haven't raced with me. I don't judge people I haven't raced with nor should you, it's just foolish.
First off the "Tunes" as I stated aren't taking into consideration game physics, let alone real world physics (which the games physics are close to a certain degree, but we could go on for days on semantics of real versus virtual).
As he stated he just tunes for how he drives admittedly. (I appreciate the honesty and that clarifies this along with his feedback. And I regard that's more honorable then some trying to use a lame stat board to base ones worth on. For that I'm willing to share some information and settings with privately).
Now for how Weight transfer works in game (and in real life) some of the setups are too stiff or don't give enough flexibility for even a Rear engine - Rear wheel drive platform.
Secondly there is a group of us that would get together in GT5 and "Club race" Ruf's (namely BTR's and Yellowbird's) and share tunes on a friendly and collaborative context. Most know me as a very sharing and helping individual, but now considering the approach by some people so far, they can forget them being shared publicly due to the asinine and fickle replies.
Assuming just because its inserted into a console there's no heritage or lineage based on the real world concepts is close minded. Evidently you don't follow Kaz or haven't seen how GT has evolved to include real world physics.
There's some truth in this game, yet there's some Arcade like qualities that make it easy to link up with your friends and have some casual-sim racing.
Now some clues on setup:
First off with rear engine cars there's obviously not a lot of weight up front, so you don't need much spring rate in the front, same with dampening. You actually should "sponge" up the inertial mass so that it doesn't cause the rear to come around more, yet use it in cornering. Also to keep the sprung weight from lifting the cars rear mass as you go over the bumps, you should counter this with more Extension dampening in the rear, forcing the nose to compress, not the rear to lift, etc.
When the car brakes the mass in the rear is projected forward, when you go into a turn and the forward "interia" is displaced, it wants to keep going forward while the car turns, therefore inducing more force or yaw to spin the car.
Well if you take that into consideration and adjust your dampening and spring rates you can counter the force and actual use it during braking to benefit cornering. Then when exiting you can lay the weight down to put the weight on the wheels. If you adjust the suspension more you will get a better benefit on "faster out".
Toe, too extreme of toe angles can mess with the geometry of the car that's really fickle to begin with. Minimize your toe angles up front more than your rear. I'll state I start with .3Front / .10 Rear and adjust from there. Some tracks I even go to extreme of -.3 in front.
As far as Camber, camber come in handy when you think of how the game artist attention to detail and how they have modeled most cars to their true nature and their suspension. The 911,has a "Semi-Trailing arm suspension and how it cambers on compression should be taken into consideration. So some camber can help, running with 0 camber in this game helps some cars but not all. Try on most of them a range of 0.3 - 1.8 on either front or rear. Nothing more, nothing less.
Gears, Porsche boxster engines give good torque output fairly early on, adjsut your gearing using a low final ratio to start and tweak from there.
Also as far as weight, 911's are known for being light cars with nice torque, I found in most occasions a stage 3 weight reduction and then "de-tuning" engine for PP gives the best output so far.
Sorry for late reply as I'm at work and trying to compile all in one reply.
This was just for constructive feedback, and attacks at me and my driving, nor tuning are not needed. If my original post came off mean I was just being blunt.
First off the "Tunes" as I stated aren't taking into consideration game physics, let alone real world physics (which the games physics are close to a certain degree, but we could go on for days on semantics of real versus virtual).
As he stated he just tunes for how he drives admittedly. (I appreciate the honesty and that clarifies this along with his feedback. And I regard that's more honorable then some trying to use a lame stat board to base ones worth on. For that I'm willing to share some information and settings with privately).
Now for how Weight transfer works in game (and in real life) some of the setups are too stiff or don't give enough flexibility for even a Rear engine - Rear wheel drive platform.
Secondly there is a group of us that would get together in GT5 and "Club race" Ruf's (namely BTR's and Yellowbird's) and share tunes on a friendly and collaborative context. Most know me as a very sharing and helping individual, but now considering the approach by some people so far, they can forget them being shared publicly due to the asinine and fickle replies.
Assuming just because its inserted into a console there's no heritage or lineage based on the real world concepts is close minded. Evidently you don't follow Kaz or haven't seen how GT has evolved to include real world physics.
There's some truth in this game, yet there's some Arcade like qualities that make it easy to link up with your friends and have some casual-sim racing.
Now some clues on setup:
First off with rear engine cars there's obviously not a lot of weight up front, so you don't need much spring rate in the front, same with dampening. You actually should "sponge" up the inertial mass so that it doesn't cause the rear to come around more, yet use it in cornering. Also to keep the sprung weight from lifting the cars rear mass as you go over the bumps, you should counter this with more Extension dampening in the rear, forcing the nose to compress, not the rear to lift, etc.
When the car brakes the mass in the rear is projected forward, when you go into a turn and the forward "interia" is displaced, it wants to keep going forward while the car turns, therefore inducing more force or yaw to spin the car.
Well if you take that into consideration and adjust your dampening and spring rates you can counter the force and actual use it during braking to benefit cornering. Then when exiting you can lay the weight down to put the weight on the wheels. If you adjust the suspension more you will get a better benefit on "faster out".
Toe, too extreme of toe angles can mess with the geometry of the car that's really fickle to begin with. Minimize your toe angles up front more than your rear. I'll state I start with .3Front / .10 Rear and adjust from there. Some tracks I even go to extreme of -.3 in front.
As far as Camber, camber come in handy when you think of how the game artist attention to detail and how they have modeled most cars to their true nature and their suspension. The 911,has a "Semi-Trailing arm suspension and how it cambers on compression should be taken into consideration. So some camber can help, running with 0 camber in this game helps some cars but not all. Try on most of them a range of 0.3 - 1.8 on either front or rear. Nothing more, nothing less.
Gears, Porsche boxster engines give good torque output fairly early on, adjsut your gearing using a low final ratio to start and tweak from there.
Also as far as weight, 911's are known for being light cars with nice torque, I found in most occasions a stage 3 weight reduction and then "de-tuning" engine for PP gives the best output so far.
Sorry for late reply as I'm at work and trying to compile all in one reply.
This was just for constructive feedback, and attacks at me and my driving, nor tuning are not needed. If my original post came off mean I was just being blunt.
JogoAsobi
Premium
- 2,578
Smokescreen.
Last I checked "Stat Runs" are also used to qualify for races.
I had to do a "Stat Run" to qualify for WRS organized racing.
Cars are set up to optimize qualifying for races & TTs by "TUNING."
Hence my suggestion you showcase your TUNING talents next Seasonal TTs.
My focus isn't your driving, I am sure you can find a test driver for your tune.
@ Daisey273, praiano63, and all..
please excuse the OT all, done here.
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Of course he tunes for how he drives--which is very fast! Isn't that what we all do? If you've ever raced anything in real life, you'll know that there is no one-size-fits-all setup--it's all about personal taste. Cars, motorcycles, bicycles, sailboats, running shoes--everything is set up for personal preference.
It just so happens that Praiano's preferences have provided a great baseline for hundreds of us to adopt or adapt and consistently shave many seconds off our lap times.
As for your original content-free wall of text, that was all about you and not the app. You offered no concrete criticism of the app or tunes, but instead endeavored to tell us how smart you think you are. Period.
- 158
- COTA
- speedrcr
Okay that's good, I'm glad for him...and what does that have to do with taking real world knowledge and making it applicable and improving some existing tunes?
That's a very closed and "young minded" statement.
No, that's not necessarily true, if you raced anything or paid attention to "real racing" you would know this is not true in Motorsports, its depending upon the car, the track, and "feeling". Personal style, not completely correct, only about 5%. You confuse that with the driver's giving feedback to an "Engineer", not because it didn't suit their style of racing.
There's a certain faster line and if you can't get the best handling dictated from usually an "engineer", "expert", or even perhaps someone that knows a little more than you, you are definitely robbing yourself of "knowledge".
It's really ridiculous what you're trying to debate here.
That's great and you want those baselines to not possibly improve with better knowledge???? As he stated he doesn't know about real world workings, but perhaps having more real world knowledge and applying it in some of these tunes can actually help. I just said it how it is, they seemed like a shot in the dark and perhaps a few "surprised" me..but as for the cars I do know not really helped.
This is just banter targeted at me. Of course I did, I gave him places to look into did I not?
And no its going to be content free since I'm not getting any money for it, I'm not going to share my knowledge I'm going to make him earn the money people are paying for the app.
I'm only leading him to information that might help improve.
Now that I've gotten criticism for me trying to help I'm not openly sharing this information due to jbaffoh and jogo being jerks about things. I came on here with nothing to prove and being blunt.
You're blind to this because you don't read between the lines.
Smokescreen.
hmm not really, I just don't qualify for events like what you posted. I have nothing to prove to anyone here, take my knowledge or leave it. The ones I have qualified for in the past are real enduro's on GTR2, Race07, Rfactor among others. You don't know what a real event is until you have run VLN Nurburgring for 4 hours switching out drivers*, watching fuel, engine damage, overheating, watching out for random mechanical failures and realistic tire wear.
I got better things to prove than stats based on boards with kids (or people) that have copious amount of hours to play a game.
*Pure example of making a setup one size fits multiple drivers, race event would allow for multiple drivers to swap out for single race...uhm I think there's a real series called WSC, ALMS, WEC, etc that have multiple drivers with perhaps different driving styles driving same setup.
