Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
To make it easy, set your PS3 to 1080i output only (or 1080p if your tv accept it), back to the demo and enjoy.
If you want to know more:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8631533#post8631533
Gran Turismo 6 Aliasing?
- Thread starter JoseBaiona
- 74 comments
- 11,185 views
If you want to know more:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8631533#post8631533
Gran Turismo 6 don't use MSAA like Gran Turismo 5 but MLAA, less greedy. In addition to that, the GTA 2013's demo uses temporal AA which allows improve the sampling but scintillate image - it can be disabled -.
No confuse flickers and aliasings which are completely missing ! Really, there are no jaggies, you confuse !
For framerate, PoDi will improve it for the final version including cockpit view. I'm sure.
This demo is technically better than Gran Turismo 5 after several fixes : no tearing, smokes no pixel, better light effect with HDR, shadows more softer... I'm very trusty for final version !
Can't wait !
No confuse flickers and aliasings which are completely missing ! Really, there are no jaggies, you confuse !
For framerate, PoDi will improve it for the final version including cockpit view. I'm sure.
This demo is technically better than Gran Turismo 5 after several fixes : no tearing, smokes no pixel, better light effect with HDR, shadows more softer... I'm very trusty for final version !
Can't wait !
Last edited:
- 250
- JoseBaiona
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 243
- France
- SillyBillyP
There's a bad problem with jaggies/aliasing in the demo. I notice it especially on trackside edges in the distance. I checked out gameplay videos on YouTube and, it seems to me, that there are jaggies on the tracks used in the demo (Silverstone, GVS, etc) which are evident in the gameplay videos but I could not perceive jaggies in the gameplay videos of Matterhorn or Willow Springs.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
Have you tried the demo at 1080i in your 720p tv or you don't cares? the comparisson with GT4 is a joke.
...and how is he meant to do that? If you try to send a 1080i/p signal from the PS3 to a 720p set you'll just get a black screen. I know this because my TV upstairs is 1080p and downstairs only 720p. If I set my PS3 to output 1080p and connect it to my TV downstairs I just get a black screen.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Not all 720p native TV supports 1080i/1080p signal, but most Samsung mid range tv does 
I used to have older Samsung LCD with 1388x768 native res, it does 1080i and 1080p perfectly ( downscale ) and it gives crisper picture.
I used to have older Samsung LCD with 1388x768 native res, it does 1080i and 1080p perfectly ( downscale ) and it gives crisper picture.
Last edited:
Not all 720p native TV supports 1080i/1080p signal, but most Samsung mid range tv does
I think you mean downscale.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 250
- JoseBaiona
Trust me it's no joke. I love the demo but the aliasing just bothers me. Not to mention the shadows flick everywhere. It's definately an improvement on GT5 but some things need to be sorted out first. When i say it's no joke, the comparison with GT4 is just for the jagged edges and texture flickering.
Zer0
(Banned)
- 1,624
I think that I have never seen a 720p tv that doesn't support also 1080i. Just try it.
1080p compatibility is another thing and is not supported by many old tv models.
But you tested at 1080i or not?
Aliasings :
It's fixe, no scintillate, no shine
Beyond 3D says GT6'demo runs at 1440x1080P with maybe MLAA + temporal AA.
Maybe, because, PoDi may use MSAA too.
- 238
- United Kingdom
Just on a side note but I saw a few comments about the "pixelated smoke".
I wanted to clear something up here - and hopefully clear up some of the comments about pixelated smoke being fixed / not being fixed, etc.
1.) The smoke itself isn't really so pixelated - it's actually rendered quite decently in that you can't pick out pixels amongst all the smoke!
2.) Take note of something of relevance. All GT4, GT5P, GT5 & GT6 smoke / dirt / wet weather spray / snow spray effects are done EXACTLY THE SAME. The way these effects are basically done (in layman's speak) is the smoke / dirt / etc effect is rendered to an image buffer of some resolution (just for e.g. 320 x 256). So now you have an image of that size with just smoke / dirt / etc in it (based on course type).
3.) These GT games then use the Z buffer to create a stencil for the position of the car where the smoke / dirt / etc effect is to be positioned. In some cases the effect (e.g. tyre smoke) is to appear in front of the car, in other cases - behind the car. Also note that the effect may appear in front of the car - but behind other objects in the foreground (trees, traffic cones, fences, etc).
4.) The Z buffer stencil is applied to the smoke / dirt / etc buffer. What you have now is a "cut out" of any foreground objects - like your car, other cars, trees, traffic cones, etc.
5.) The effect buffer is pretty small - and guess what - it needs to be "upscaled" to the same resolution as the game is running native in (e.g. 1280 x 1080). Upscaling the effect buffer means there's no smoothing between pixels, so you get a jagged "cut out" for where the car, trees, etc should appear.
6.) The effect buffer is applied as an overlay for the current frame. So now you'll see your smoke / dirt / etc - as you should.
Now you might say - why not use a bigger effect buffer size (higher resolution)? That would work except that the PS3 has pixel fill rate issues, so there's not much chance of rendering this in 1/60th of a second. There are also graphics memory issues to consider - having large buffers expends memory that could be used for textures.
What I am telling you here is how GT has worked for several iterations - certainly GT4 did this, GT5P, GT5 and so it appears GT6 is as well.
With GT4 - people perhaps didn't notice so much because (a) the GPU had a high performing fill rate, (b) the resolution of the game wasn't HD - so memory requirements weren't as high and (c) car windows were blacked out. That's what made the stencil technique so useful there - because you'd never be able to see smoke / dirt / etc - that should be behind the car through the car windows. With GT5P, smoke was kept to small puffs - so the damage was (a) limited and (b) with small puffs - a higher resolution buffer could be used for those. That was never going to work with GT5 on account of the dirt wakes left in rallying, snow spray wakes left on snow courses, rain spray wakes left in rainy weather, etc. As you'd expect with premium cars - you can't see the smoke / dirt / etc through their (transparent) windows...
Some techniques can be applied to the upscaled effects buffer - to smooth / blur the edges before applying the overlay (something similar to the anti-aliasing example in the post above), but this is really more like a damage limitation workaround for the real issue.
I've tried to raise this with KY through Twitter, but my thoughts are that these effects should be rendered "in the scene" appropriately. That would certainly resolve the graphical fidelity issue, however, it would increase additional polygon counts & maintaining 60fps frame rate will become an issue.
Much to the chagrin of many, my thoughts about this are that GT6 should really be a PS4 game. If Polyphony Digital and Sony are looking to do GT more justice on PS3 in its twilight years - the game really needs to drop down to run at 30fps. At 30fps, a lot more fancy stuff can be added and at least we'd have a game that could look a lot closer to GT4 - as in we'd have tracks that come alive with effects like spectators running around, etc - and all in high definition.
There's no easy solution and something has to give. I'd personally rather take the hit on frame rate and have a solid 30fps over an unsteady 60fps with not so great looking smoke / weather effects, aliasing issues, shadow flickering, etc.
Please don't bother to say these smoke / dirt / etc effects are "fixed" in the GT Academy 2013 download. It is not fixed and it will not be fixed for GT6 unless other sacrifices are made.
Anyway, I've said all that's needed here. That is all.
I wanted to clear something up here - and hopefully clear up some of the comments about pixelated smoke being fixed / not being fixed, etc.
1.) The smoke itself isn't really so pixelated - it's actually rendered quite decently in that you can't pick out pixels amongst all the smoke!
2.) Take note of something of relevance. All GT4, GT5P, GT5 & GT6 smoke / dirt / wet weather spray / snow spray effects are done EXACTLY THE SAME. The way these effects are basically done (in layman's speak) is the smoke / dirt / etc effect is rendered to an image buffer of some resolution (just for e.g. 320 x 256). So now you have an image of that size with just smoke / dirt / etc in it (based on course type).
3.) These GT games then use the Z buffer to create a stencil for the position of the car where the smoke / dirt / etc effect is to be positioned. In some cases the effect (e.g. tyre smoke) is to appear in front of the car, in other cases - behind the car. Also note that the effect may appear in front of the car - but behind other objects in the foreground (trees, traffic cones, fences, etc).
4.) The Z buffer stencil is applied to the smoke / dirt / etc buffer. What you have now is a "cut out" of any foreground objects - like your car, other cars, trees, traffic cones, etc.
5.) The effect buffer is pretty small - and guess what - it needs to be "upscaled" to the same resolution as the game is running native in (e.g. 1280 x 1080). Upscaling the effect buffer means there's no smoothing between pixels, so you get a jagged "cut out" for where the car, trees, etc should appear.
6.) The effect buffer is applied as an overlay for the current frame. So now you'll see your smoke / dirt / etc - as you should.
Now you might say - why not use a bigger effect buffer size (higher resolution)? That would work except that the PS3 has pixel fill rate issues, so there's not much chance of rendering this in 1/60th of a second. There are also graphics memory issues to consider - having large buffers expends memory that could be used for textures.
What I am telling you here is how GT has worked for several iterations - certainly GT4 did this, GT5P, GT5 and so it appears GT6 is as well.
With GT4 - people perhaps didn't notice so much because (a) the GPU had a high performing fill rate, (b) the resolution of the game wasn't HD - so memory requirements weren't as high and (c) car windows were blacked out. That's what made the stencil technique so useful there - because you'd never be able to see smoke / dirt / etc - that should be behind the car through the car windows. With GT5P, smoke was kept to small puffs - so the damage was (a) limited and (b) with small puffs - a higher resolution buffer could be used for those. That was never going to work with GT5 on account of the dirt wakes left in rallying, snow spray wakes left on snow courses, rain spray wakes left in rainy weather, etc. As you'd expect with premium cars - you can't see the smoke / dirt / etc through their (transparent) windows...
Some techniques can be applied to the upscaled effects buffer - to smooth / blur the edges before applying the overlay (something similar to the anti-aliasing example in the post above), but this is really more like a damage limitation workaround for the real issue.
I've tried to raise this with KY through Twitter, but my thoughts are that these effects should be rendered "in the scene" appropriately. That would certainly resolve the graphical fidelity issue, however, it would increase additional polygon counts & maintaining 60fps frame rate will become an issue.
Much to the chagrin of many, my thoughts about this are that GT6 should really be a PS4 game. If Polyphony Digital and Sony are looking to do GT more justice on PS3 in its twilight years - the game really needs to drop down to run at 30fps. At 30fps, a lot more fancy stuff can be added and at least we'd have a game that could look a lot closer to GT4 - as in we'd have tracks that come alive with effects like spectators running around, etc - and all in high definition.
There's no easy solution and something has to give. I'd personally rather take the hit on frame rate and have a solid 30fps over an unsteady 60fps with not so great looking smoke / weather effects, aliasing issues, shadow flickering, etc.
Please don't bother to say these smoke / dirt / etc effects are "fixed" in the GT Academy 2013 download. It is not fixed and it will not be fixed for GT6 unless other sacrifices are made.
Anyway, I've said all that's needed here. That is all.
Last edited:
Similar threads
