Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[astrarobotica]

The first post you quoted entered the chat literally two hours ago:

I've previously also given the example of Wreckfest - again in this thread and the article - which also supports more vehicles on PS5.

I don't know what the disconnect is here.

Oh my gosh, you specifically said:

no cross-gen PS4-5 or XB1-S title has had any differences outside audiovisual improvements and load times

All I did was give you an example that specifically contradicts that. That is not just an "audiovisual improvement" by any means. That's a massive difference in online match size that splits the player base into two version of the game. This is getting silly, I'm gonna check out now. You're the admin, pick your battles.

 

[snc]

Somebody asked about the cpu usage with GT Sport earlier. I've just discovered the PS4 has a homebrew plugin to monitor the system.

https://github.com/OSM-Made/Orbis-Toolbox/releases

So, from limited running with full grid race and time trial:

Core 1 - 4 don't go above 80%
Core 5 doesn't go above 90%
Core 6 doesn't go above 80%
Core 7 - 8 don't go above 65%

very interesting ! tough even very heavy cpu game will not have 100% on all cores and also not everything can bu multithreaded and single thread speed is also important and still we see, no much more room here

 

[Famine]

Oh my gosh, you specifically said:

Yes, after I said the other thing. I didn't know you needed me to repeat every word every time. Now I do, so I will.

For my money, increased grid sizes are as much a visual effect as particle effects, ray tracing, etc. They're basically an amuse bouche enabled by GPU power and don't affect fundamental gameplay one iota. I appreciate others might not see it that way.

This is getting silly, I'm gonna check out now. You're the admin, pick your battles.

I don't know why you're regarding anything as a battle. You're furiously agreeing, then trying to pick holes that have already been filled, then trying to walk away from it. I don't know what the disconnect is.

Do yourself a favour and go read the article - and the rest of the thread.

 

[Dave A]

"Using as much CPU power as possible" = 100% CPU Usage, in my language at least, which is from planet earth btw.

As are well over a thousand other languages to English, but if you're familiar with English you'll be familiar with things like idoms and hyperbole which are easilly identifiable in the context of a discussion.

So be very careful how you twist meaning of what people say and then try to tear that comment out of context and raise it up for some internet wins. On top of that, neither of those posts said anything about using 100% of the CPU all the time.

I don't know about you and others, but I don't take discussions in forums like these like "a game I must win at all costs". I prefer to win races instead. If you or others are so eager to, then I can let you win here

Yet you're the one going out of your way to twist what people have said and inferring they said thing which they clearly did not, for reasons.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Lots of outlets "confirmed" it right away. I know PushSquare cited "PlayStation PR" to confirm it later on - but we also spoke to PS PR and we didn't get anything like a confirmation.

We're sticking with unconfirmed until confirmed

The Man of Wisdom speaks and I agree with his assessment

 

[Urzum]

If there's one thing I've learned during the past couple of years, that's not to be excited about a game release anymore. Absolutely all the new releases I've been impatiently expecting turned out to be real flops.
This is why I wasn't expecting much from Gran Tursimo either. Not having any expectations turned into actually being happy it is going to be available on PS4 as well; I wasn't going to be a part of the insanity that currently buying a new console is with all the scalping and shortages just because I wanted to "PLAY NEXT GEN GRAPHICS DYNAMIC WEATHER RAY TRACING HURR DURR!!!!!11"

Good for you, Sony and PD! One of the most rational decisions you took recently!

(I'm also happy for God Of War Ragnarok)

 

[Novalee]

That's not different functionality, I think there is a line here being missed between enhancing an existing function and making the game functionally different. Enhancing an existing fuction from a PS4 version of GT7 to a PS5 version would be increasing the size of the gris on PS5, imporving the resolution etc. Making the game functionally different would be dyanmic time of day and weather in the PS5 version but not in the PS4 version.

Other games on ps4 have dynamic day / night changes and weather. There is zero reason gt7 cannot have the same . It is more a matter of will than if it is possible in my opinion .

 

[Scaff]

Other games on ps4 have dynamic day / night changes and weather. There is zero reason gt7 cannot have the same . It is more a matter of will than if it is possible in my opinion .

Not without scaling back the visuals and lighting effects it can't, which given that's a GT series USP would be a major thing to do.

Hell, with PDs use of tessellation rather than LODs, its arguable that its even easy or straightforward to do in the first place.

 

[RacingFan1]

As are well over a thousand other languages to English, but if you're familiar with English you'll be familiar with things like idoms and hyperbole which are easilly identifiable in the context of a discussion.

So be very careful how you twist meaning of what people say and then try to tear that comment out of context and raise it up for some internet wins. On top of that, neither of those posts said anything about using 100% of the CPU all the time.

Yet you're the one going out of your way to twist what people have said and inferring they said thing which they clearly did not, for reasons.

Lol, really? are you crazy?
I don't maliciously twist words of anyone, and even less so to try to get a "stupid internet win". And if you think so, maybe you are taking internet way too seriously and you should disconnect from it for a bit and go to the countryside and breath some fresh air.

 

[FPV MIC]

The first post you quoted entered the chat literally two hours ago:

I've previously also given the example of Wreckfest - again in this thread and the article - which also supports more vehicles on PS5.

I don't know what the disconnect is here.

Taking off from a standing start is slightly different From the PS4 version to the PS5+ free game version of Wreckfest too. If you select the Manual option on PS4 1st gear is preselected for you so you can just hold the throttle flat and get a great jump, but on the PS5+ version with the same selection you start in neutral before the lights go out and have to quickly grab 1st at the last second, then there's a slight pause, and only then do you take off.

It works the same way in lobbies for both versions as well, and by the same I mean, errr different. I haven't tried it in x-play lobbies yet but if it stays like this it would be a huge advantage to players with the PS4 version off the line.


Disclaimer: I'm unsure but I think it's a bug

 

[Novalee]

Not without scaling back the visuals and lighting effects it can't, which given that's a GT series USP would be a major thing to do.

Hell, with PDs use of tessellation rather than LODs, its arguable that its even easy or straightforward to do in the first place.

Yes exactly . I dont see how anyone could argue that but they will .

 

[Vspectra]

I suggested that a game like GT Sport is not exactly the most demanding type of game out there in terms of CPU. But some of the several so wise armchair experts here "corrected" me and said CPU usage was always 100%. Interesting

"Using as much CPU power as possible" = 100% CPU Usage, in my language at least, which is from planet earth btw.

Using as much cpu power as possible doesn't mean reaching 100%. Reaching 100% is not a good thing, you don't want to create a game reaching 100% CPU utilization and then run into situations in the game you can't account for that would need even more CPU usage to maintain its framerate. That would result in framerate dips, which is why you always need to allow for some headroom. The game having cores reach 80-90% usage is a lot, which definitely does not look good for "look at all of this extra headroom to have vastly better physics and gameplay features" on top of maintaining a stable 60fps. The numbers make sense considering GTSport runs at 60fps 99.8% of the time, with very rare occasions where it does dip to 54fps. If the CPU usage was at 100% you would be running into much more framerate dips.

GTSport framerate data from vgchartz

Those screen captures are in 1080. Seriously?
Witcher can actually run up to 8k.

Look at the PC they used to run this, it's in the description

Even if you ignore 8k and set it to 4k the difference is still enormous

I think you should actually read my post that you quoted:

"As stated earlier, Witcher 3 on PC Ultra Settings allows for an increase in image resolution, increase in draw distance for shadows and assets, and those are the biggest graphical differences. It's not some massive generational difference. The game's assets and visuals were designed for PS4/XBO consoles, then they just scaled up resolution and draw distance for the PC release."
​

Which goes back to your argument that Witcher 3 PC was designed with max settings in mind. If all you can show me is an increase in resolution for PC max settings, which I had already mentioned, then the game was not designed with max PC settings in mind. I can literally play PS2 games at 4k or even 8k on PCSX2, it does not mean those ps2 games were designed for the highest-end PC spec. Resolution is one of the easiest things to scale in graphics based on gpu power.

 

[Dave A]

Other games on ps4 have dynamic day / night changes and weather. There is zero reason gt7 cannot have the same . It is more a matter of will than if it is possible in my opinion .

Yes, but it's a case of trade-offs. We know it wasn't possible for GT Sport, which is why they didn't include it. It wasn't possible in GT Sport because their priority was the resolution and frame rate and there's no reason that will have changed for GT7 and that GT7 will arrive on PS4 a worse looking game running at a lower frame rate than GT Sport is. So yes, it's possible, but no, it's not likely. And yes, if they include it they have to trade-off elsewhere.

 

[Novalee]

reful ho wyou twist meaning of what people
Yes, but it's a case of trade-offs. We know it wasn't possible for GT Sport, which is why they didn't include it. It wasn't possible in GT Sport because their priority was the resolution and frame rate and there's no reason that will have changed for GT7 and that GT7 will arrive on PS4 a worse looking game running at a lower frame rate than GT Sport is. So yes, it's possible, but no, it's not likely. And yes, if they include it they have to trade-off elsewhere.

I think you were accusing me of twisting your meaning ? Anyways ,my point is that Sony/PD need to make money and if changing plan mid stride is their solution , i dont get the big deal being made about it . I wanted bf2042 to be only ps5 or xbsx but guess what ? that is not going to happen and i am fine with it.
I know that there was not going to be any major change to physics or crash physics to gt7 no matter what console it comes out on . I think PD like whats going on with how gt sport plays because they never really made it better and gt7 is going to be close to the same no matter what .

 

[TS050]

Yes, but it's a case of trade-offs. We know it wasn't possible for GT Sport, which is why they didn't include it. It wasn't possible in GT Sport because their priority was the resolution and frame rate and there's no reason that will have changed for GT7 and that GT7 will arrive on PS4 a worse looking game running at a lower frame rate than GT Sport is. So yes, it's possible, but no, it's not likely. And yes, if they include it they have to trade-off elsewhere.

Yeah, I don’t understand why people keep bringing up other racing games that happen to have dynamic TOD/weather on the PS4 like those games didn’t have to compromise in some kind of way to get it. Stuff like PC2 rarely runs at a locked 60fps with dynamic weather, and ACC doesn’t even run at 60fps

Not to mention it’s been repeatedly said that Kaz didn’t implement dynamic TOD/weather into GTS as they wouldn’t be able to sustain a locked 60fps - I’m not sure why they’d decide to go back on that and release a game with shaky performance

 

[Dave A]

I think you were accusing me of twisting your meaning ? Anyways ,my point is that Sony/PD need to make money and if changing plan mid stride is their solution , i dont get the big deal being made about it . I wanted bf2042 to be only ps5 or xbsx but guess what ? that is not going to happen and i am fine with it.
I know that there was not going to be any major change to physics or crash physics to gt7 no matter what console it comes out on . I think PD like whats going on with how gt sport plays because they never really made it better and gt7 is going to be close to the same no matter what .

No, the first bit of your quote were remannts of another post I drafted that I didn't realise were still there when I quoted you, you just replied to me before I could edit it out after I spotted it. I don't think you twisted anything .

 

[Tornado]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-cross-gen-title.399332/page-25#post-13427384
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-cross-gen-title.399332/page-25#post-13427404

"Using as much CPU power as possible" = 100% CPU Usage, in my language at least, which is from planet earth btw.

So nobody said that, and once again you're misrepresenting what someone said as if it was proof of a claim, and once again not actually understanding something technological presented to you and pretending to use it as evidence.



Games aren't parasitic loads. Games aren't compiling benchmarks. Games aren't rendering software. A CPU with nearly all of its cores deep in the 70s or more for usage (and running at 80 degrees in the process) doesn't mean "They've got 20% more to extract!"

 

[Jump_Ace]

Why you have to be so technical?

Because it's a technical issue/question at hand and having a goal is waaay different than achieving a goal.


Jerome

 

[Nielsen]

So... GT Sport with the one thing that it needed to be good? Is that a problem somehow?

I think the key word was lazy. GT games have felt rehashed for more than a decade now with most of the evolution going into graphics. You could say GT Sport tried something new, but more than anything it was just a change in creative direction which ultimately made the game shrink in scope.

 

[crooky369]

@Vspectra

This is a fascinating table. I was looking for this info the other day as I always seemed to think the game was noticeably slower in quality mode... Apparently not according to that table.

But we don't know how this test was carried out in regards to circuit, number of cars, speed of the cars, etc.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Easy solution.

GT7 on PS4 is as GTS is now but with GT7 content.

GT7 on PS5 gets to add dynamic time of day and weather to demonstrate the power of the console.

Match the physics in Sport and Lobby modes for crossplay reasons and enhanced physics for none multiplayer modes on PS5.

Sony gets to sell the game to PS4 owners, promote the PS5 as a more powerful console and sell a significantly enhanced game to existing PS5 owners.

That's unless this all turns out to be a rather large miscommunication combined with the usual clickbate tactics of websites which people continually manage to forget happens. Frequently....

 

[Novalee]

I hope at the end of the day that what PD does is make a game that is fun and has same sense of community gt6 had . If they can pull that off then i predict a winner .

 

[VR DRIVER]

The ONLY thing now that can respark my fire will be if the ps5 version has PSVR2 for the whole game. As this is the feature I want the most. Reply if this is something your after to guy and gals..
Anyway. I'm off to write a complaint to PD. I'm for one want to air my opinion right at them.
Gtrealmracing❤

I see it the same way. And VR in particular has shown very clearly what it means when weaker hardware slows down the possibilities. Where would we be with a VR mode only for the PS4 Pro already? Of course fragmentation is difficult, especially within a console generation. But in the current discussion we're talking about two different generations, after all.

One aspect that hasn't been mentioned here yet is the freedom for creativity.

I have the impression that if the Gross Gen development really happens, PD is currently under so much pressure to make the game run on the PS4 that all the creative verve completely falls by the wayside. The whole team is certainly anything but happy about having to cancel so many visions. Unfortunately, PD has to bow to SONY.

Without the PSVR system, I would have completely ignored the PS4. Gran Turismo Sport is very reduced compared to the earlier parts. What remains is a great VR demo.
With Gran Turismo 7, something really groundbreaking should finally be created, without compromise!

 

[CarreraGT]

I think the assumption currently is that the games will be Cross-platform, which means players on PS5 can play with players on PS4. So far almost all Cross-platform games have been identical outside of graphical differences and controller optimisation. So this precedent is being used to assume that GT7 will be the same on both consoles, which would mean GT7 has been "kneecapped" so that it will operate on the PS4 (unfortunately).

I personally would've thought they would want to encourage more people to buy a PS5 having GT7 be a PS5 exclusive instead of encouraging people to continue using the PS4 with a cross-platform game. I can only assume they have market research which is suggesting a cross-platform release will be more profitable. I guess the current excess demand for PS5 might be playing into the decision as well.

Fair point. I guess I meant features like dynamic weather and time of day would only be available offline on PS5. So you're right, sport mode would essentially need to be the same but the PS5 could (should) have additional offline features.

 

[Strittan]

With that out the way, if you were them, would you like to sell your product to ~8m people, or ~118m people ?

Lol, as if everyone who owns a PS4 would buy it?

To answer your question, though. If I was Kazunori I would like to make the game as good and as optimized for the latest hardware as possible, regardless how many copies I hope it would sell. Developing a game for two generations must be a pure nightmare.

 

[Yard_Sale]

To all the nerds that know a lot more than me:

Would a PS4pro be capable of running a GT7 game that had 90% of the bells and whistles we all want...whilst, looking more like a standard PS4 graphic-wise during game play?

This is where I'm going with this...

What if PD was able to make some good compromises in the features to make the game playable on a PS4pro, albeit with graphics that were a step down in quality from say...GTsport on PS4 pro (of course a standard ps4 could run the game too...but the graphics would look maybe more like what GTS looks like in VR...but better....you get the point).

They put PS4 Pro's on sale for even a bigger discount than they already are. MASSIVE DISCOUNT. Than people would have the choice to upgrade to a PS4 Pro for cheap, or spend up and buy a PS5. Or do nothing and still have a decent looking game.

I play GTS on a standard PS4. Game looks absolutely stunning! If I was budget minded, I would be willing to take a step down in graphics in order to play the latest and greatest.... with the option of upgrading to a console that could give me all the new stunning details down the road.


Is this even possible?

 

[FPV MIC]

Lol, as if everyone who owns a PS4 would buy it?

I know I wouldn't buy for a copy for my PS4. It's already stuck up in a cupboard with all of my other PlayStation's. I dare say this will happen to a fair few of the PS5 owners old consoles so by GT7's release it could be more like 8Om PS4's and 30m PS5's. I've also given away some of my old consoles to kids that don't have one and there's no way they're playing GT games.

I also wonder how many of all of those PS4's sold are actually still operational.

 

[CaptainTNT]

Well it looks like I not really missing anything. For now Forza Horizon fills the void for me & when I dust them of, Gran Turismo 2, 4.

 

[willbsn13]

I've seen a few people here reference FM8/The New Forza Motorsport as next gen only but that is still unconfirmed at this point.

T10 haven't official said it isn't coming to XB1. It has also been confirmed that (through the latest playtest), there is an XB1 version playable. Whether this sees the light of day when the game finally releases is anyone's guess.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I've only just thought about this whilst reading this thread, but nearly 2 years ago to the day we saw our first glimpse of rain in GT Sport on the Red Bull Ring at the Nurburgring WT and 2 months later it was released in an update. But a month before that update, they updated the physics engine which in my opinion, and plenty will agree, dumbed down the physics and introduced chronic understeer.

It was also done to make the racing fairer amongst the Group 3, Group 4 and Group B cars. They suffered the most with the physics update. You now the game is centred around eSports when literally everything is done to "improve" the racing, without thinking about the wider implications for the majority who do not and cannot race at the top.

Somebody asked about the cpu usage with GT Sport earlier. I've just discovered the PS4 has a homebrew plugin to monitor the system.

https://github.com/OSM-Made/Orbis-Toolbox/releases

So, from limited running with full grid race and time trial:

Core 1 - 4 don't go above 80%
Core 5 doesn't go above 90%
Core 6 doesn't go above 80%
Core 7 - 8 don't go above 65%

Assetto Corsa Competizione during full grid race at Spa.

Core 1 - 6 constantly in the 90 - 98 % range
Core 7 doesn't go above 65%
Core 8 doesn't go above 45%

So it uses less computing power than Assetto Corsa Competizione? Interesting. It seems as though PD can squeeze a little bit more performance from the PS4.