Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

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05XR8
It’s not so much about passing them quickly Without an option and it’s fine the licence tests are there. The variation in how the tests teach the basics, is the question. Here’s what PD did for GT6.



Are the licence tests necessary? Should this be an option from now on?
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In my opinion the license tests are good (international a, international b, special license etc.) because they start with basic corners and advance to more complex sections. They are also timed so you have to go for the gold (in theory) making you to find the best line and gain experience with the cornering, braking, feeling the cars (some are faster, some are slower, lighter, heavier etc.). Yes, a few of them are boring, but the ones that i see people are whining about (the 500m and 1000m braking tests) are just 2. You can do them in 1-3 min. I think PD implements them to make people see the difference in the stopping distance because one is with a slower car and one is with a faster car (that's how i remember it was in GT Sport).
Maybe for some of you they are boring, but for a kid they're helpful. Also, i enjoy doing them and going for the gold because i think of them as mini challenges and given that the game is not releasing yearly, i don't see the problem of doing them at an interval of 4-5 years. And for those saying that PD is not trying to improve them, then why has GT Sport implemented the Track Experience missions? All i see in this thread is people whining about them like it's the end of the world.

Edit: to give you a better idea why the license tests are good: i remember myself playing GT4 as a kid and doing the licenses. They were very hard, but redoing them and learning the basics made me progress further in the game and win races easier. Then, in GT5 i was trying to go for the gold, but couldn't obtain it on all missions. This year, i replayed the game and i was able to obtain the remaining gold medals in no time. As we grow up, we look back at them and think they're easy (and maybe boring) because we have more experience, especially for racing games fans.
And to give one more example of why they're helpful. I have a friend (who has a driving license) but isn't too much into racing. He started playing GT Sport, but he couldn't finish a race (even on a very simple track) without crashing. He didn't know how to take the best line, when to brake etc. I told him to do the missions and after a while he started driving much better, so they are helpful even for older people.
 
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Daniel55
In my opinion the license tests are good (international a, international b, special license etc.) because they start with basic corners and advance to more complex sections. They are also timed so you have to go for the gold (in theory) making you to find the best line and gain experience with the cornering, braking, feeling the cars (some are faster, some are slower, lighter, heavier etc.). Yes, a few of them are boring, but the ones that i see people are whining about (the 500m and 1000m braking tests) are just 2. You can do them in 1-3 min. I think PD implements them to make people see the difference in the stopping distance because one is with a slower car and one is with a faster car (that's how i remember it was in GT Sport).
Maybe for some of you they are boring, but for a kid they're helpful. Also, i enjoy doing them and going for the gold because i think of them as mini challenges and given that the game is not releasing yearly, i don't see the problem of doing them at an interval of 4-5 years. And for those saying that PD is not trying to improve them, then why has GT Sport implemented the Track Experience missions? All i see in this thread is people whining about them like it's the end of the world.
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I already agreed licence tests can remain. Others have said it as well. That’s not the issue. It’s the same ones. No matter if it takes 3 minutes. You like the same ones, others prefer a fresh take on them. Even after 4-5 years and 25 years, they’re the same ones.

The video I posted has everything you described in the licence test. The Circuit Experience reads, “Learn the strategy to master each race track.” “Learn about braking points and driving lines in more detail, track-by-track!”. Players aren’t forced to do Circuit Experience to advance in the game. So, GT Sport would be a different game to past GTs, yes?
You’re concentrating on others whining, but you quoting my post, isn’t what I was speaking on. What about the video I posted? Do you see how PD changed a bit to get players to understand the basics of driving? Even has directions while sitting in the pits(which the Youtuber breezed thru) and further tutorial while driving.

There are also people afraid of change. They feel when someone suggest something that’s not in step with what they are used to, they see those others as complaining. Some feel Options shouldn’t be optional. It should this way because that’s what we know. That’s the way it’s been. It ought to stay that way. They see anyone suggesting otherwise, as noise.

You acknowleged and open mind for options, but others don’t see it. That’s all the suggestions are about: Options and creativity.
 
zzz_pt
Even sims like iRacing, rFactor and Assetto Corsa don't do it. Sure, most people on there are adults who know how to drive their dailies but 99,9% never drove an F1 or a Nascar and they don't need any license tests to figure it out.
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Some of the sim games I played I found to be lacking in the tutorial/teaching area, and kind of wished they had something similar to Gran Turismo. I would prefer if there was an option to start in smaller pieces, like mastering different types of corners and then build up to segments and laps.
 
Daniel55
In my opinion the license tests are good (international a, international b, special license etc.) because they start with basic corners and advance to more complex sections. They are also timed so you have to go for the gold (in theory) making you to find the best line and gain experience with the cornering, braking, feeling the cars (some are faster, some are slower, lighter, heavier etc.). Yes, a few of them are boring, but the ones that i see people are whining about (the 500m and 1000m braking tests) are just 2. You can do them in 1-3 min. I think PD implements them to make people see the difference in the stopping distance because one is with a slower car and one is with a faster car (that's how i remember it was in GT Sport).
Maybe for some of you they are boring, but for a kid they're helpful. Also, i enjoy doing them and going for the gold because i think of them as mini challenges and given that the game is not releasing yearly, i don't see the problem of doing them at an interval of 4-5 years. And for those saying that PD is not trying to improve them, then why has GT Sport implemented the Track Experience missions? All i see in this thread is people whining about them like it's the end of the world.

Edit: to give you a better idea why the license tests are good: i remember myself playing GT4 as a kid and doing the licenses. They were very hard, but redoing them and learning the basics made me progress further in the game and win races easier. Then, in GT5 i was trying to go for the gold, but couldn't obtain it on all missions. This year, i replayed the game and i was able to obtain the remaining gold medals in no time. As we grow up, we look back at them and think they're easy (and maybe boring) because we have more experience, especially for racing games fans.
And to give one more example of why they're helpful. I have a friend (who has a driving license) but isn't too much into racing. He started playing GT Sport, but he couldn't finish a race (even on a very simple track) without crashing. He didn't know how to take the best line, when to brake etc. I told him to do the missions and after a while he started driving much better, so they are helpful even for older people.
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Yeah, but the thing is about how the game can cater to both beginners and veterans, like how beginners can do those basic license tests, but there are options to skip some of those for veterans. I'd also not agree on those who thinks the licenses shouldn't remain. For the Circuit Experience too, if you say that it's an "improvement", are they different from the regular Licenses except for the players choosing the tracks on their own (and that it's optional, but driving school was optional too in GTS)? Both are time trials on a specific section of the track, or full track.
 
Personally I hate the license tests. I have hated them since I first played GT1 when it came out. I always felt like they were an artificial barrier to progress. For me the license test didn't help me. What helped me get better was actual racing. I learned how to do the various sections from racing and I went back and I was able to do the license tests better. For me I learn more when I can race and see what my opponent is doing. I feel like having the racing line shown is a better aid than the license tests. If I have I will do the license tests but it is not something I look forward. TBH I know they are in the game but I am hoping they are optional.
 
JD_18
Of course it is selfish, just to give an example: earlier in the thread you said that people already have experience with other games or racing concepts.

Guess what? My cousin is from Sonora (México) and hes family dont have money to buy a console (is expensive for my country), he doesnt have any experience whit GTA or another racing game. He has also learning problems.

He had the same right to you and me to learn from the begining. Even if you thinks its dumb (obviously from you privileged perspective).

UK and United States are not the world. Is hard to talk with european or americans becouse you think all is about you.

I am glad that you have access to do what you want, but it is not the reality of all.
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I also gave you clear examples of improved ways to do things from the beginning. It was never about removing them, it was about making them better for everyone, including your cousin. So I'll say it again, yes, there are objectively better ways to teach the basics than what the GT license tests offer. Look to real life. How many racing/driving instructors do you know that teach braking the way they do in GT tests? They might have you hit the brakes at random to see how you manage but they certainly don't ask you to do it as a perfect point to stop in a box. How many real racing instructors teach racecraft the way GT tests do? I could go on, but the point is, again, there are objectively better ways to teach people.

I keep giving you better options, or at least suggest PD even look at better options themselves, and you keep ignoring them.

It's not about being selfish, it's about making the game better for EVERYONE. Right now those tests cater only to beginners, I want them to improve them so they cater to everyone, and if that isn't possible, let veterans skip a chunk of them. Pretty simple. Everyone is different, for every person like your cousin, there is people like me who already know the basics and all the advanced stuff after 25 years of GT games. Then there are people in the middle, who know the basics, but need to learn advanced stuff. Cater to them as well. It is possible, not just to cater to one demographic.

JD_18
but the concept about licenses are fine
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Why, because you said so?
 
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Samus
I also gave you clear examples of improved ways to do things from the beginning. It was never about removing them, it was about making them better for everyone, including your cousin. So I'll say it again, yes, there are objectively better ways to teach the basics than what the GT license tests offer. Look to real life. How many racing/driving instructors do you know that teach braking the way they do in GT tests? They might have you hit the brakes at random to see how you manage but they certainly don't ask you to do it as a perfect point to stop in a box. How many real racing instructors teach racecraft the way GT tests do? I could go on, but the point is, again, there are objectively better ways to teach people.
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What are those "better" ways?
 
Gonna be real, I truly believe that the video tutorials that Codemasters did for DiRT Rally:



are probably better educational resources in terms of learning race craft then anything that has been shown by GT's license tests since their inception. It presents them in simple terms, explains them well, and more importantly, shows them in video form.

The issue with GT's license tests is that 99% of people, from beginners all the way up veterans, are really only treating them as objectives to be completed. It only matters to beginners because historically, licenses have been used as a way to gate off progress from the main portions of the campaign until they are completed. To veterans, they only serve as a potential skip ahead in terms of potential cars won that might give them a leg up on others in the early parts of the game. No matter which way the onion is sliced though, they don't really do a good job in explaining any of the concepts that they teach, or how it can apply to the player.

Likewise, the fact of the matter is that the license tests probably could do with being redone to either explain the concepts they are trying to show in a way that actually informs new players or those who need to take the next step, and not use them as a gate lock mechanism for gameplay purposes. The last one is probably more beneficial - you're probably going to have the concepts stick better if new players don't feel they are being forced into them simply to get anywhere in the game.
 

GRAN TURISMO: REALISM REDEFINED

Creating the Mazda RX-VISION GT3 CONCEPT in Gran Turismo
www.mazda.com.au www.mazda.com.au
@Famine Thought I posted this a while ago, but there some interesting info in this about the car modelling process. We know about the sales figure back then, but interesting to see they knew about daily sales.
Engine sounds and performance testing. Crazy about near to release development as well.

The difficulty Mazda's team had with the fenders. Could only imagine the process in making wide-body kits. Maybe that's why a limited number of cars have certain parts.
 
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I wonder if there'll be prize cars for Circuit Experience? In that regard, I wonder if they'll either be one prize car for getting golds on each course, or if there'll simply be three prize cars, where there's one for getting bronze/silver/gold across all the courses. If it's the former case, and if the prize cars have more in common with the course - whereas they were random in GTS' iteration of Circuit Experience - then I wonder what cars I'd pick for each course, without necessarily breaking the game's progress?

The level system could tie into this, as well. Like you could potentially win a racecar early-on - such as winning a GT500-spec car for Fuji Speedway, or an LMP for the Circuit de la Sarthe - but not being able to drive it until you get to a certain level. Hopefully it'll be much easier to max out your level in GT7 than in GTS. I recall GT5 doing something similar, though I heard it could've been implemented a bit better.

If you ask me, I think there should just be three cars for Circuit Experience as a whole, or maybe even just two, like how we can see that the license tests only offer a car for getting all bronzes and all golds, but not all silvers. I'm mostly saying this because I'm sure we'll get tons of other prize cars via the actual campaign's events - such as the Sunday Cup, and whatnot. To have a prize car for every single course would mean a plethora of prize cars, being possibly more than necessary. However, even with a lower amount of prize cars, I think Circuit Experience as a whole could offer a lot in terms of prize credits and experience points.
 
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Samus
I've already explained many times, re-read my posts.
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Yet again someone claims to have already pointed out better ways, and cannot be bothered to repeat when people forgot what they were. I personally wouldn’t hesitate to repeat a point if it was compelling enough to defend more than two weeks on.

I think most of us agree that the license tests in GT are tedious in the early stages, but the tediousness actually has purpose in the fact that every little element gets its own round in the spotlight. It ensures a gradual learning curve that doesn’t overwhelm total beginners. Don’t underestimate the value in such an approach, as basic as it may seem 25 years on.

Then you might pull out the “but games need to be fun” card. Well, GT has issues with not being very fun-soaked in general, and thus there are other areas aside from license tests which could benefit more from some fresh perspectives on increasing the entertainment value. I’d say, save the rants for when the campaign gets properly revealed, because there’ll likely be plenty of weird design choices to pick apart.
 
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Silver Arrows
The issue with GT's license tests is that 99% of people, from beginners all the way up veterans, are really only treating them as objectives to be completed.
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It is a video game after all, and with that in mind, doesn't it explain why people would treat them as objectives rather than a learning experience given the way they are currently set up? My mom played Sport with me before and I asked if she wanted to do the license tests and she was like "I already know how to drive!".

These license tests, as they are usually implemented, do nothing to help people especially when some of the people taking them already know the basics of driving. What more can stopping in 100m teach somebody? I petition that the license tests be gradual and that you'd earn them by playing the game. You'd gain license test points at the end of each race depending of how well you did. If you were to Complete the first chapter/section of GT League and you do so in a clean manner and you'll earn a license which you can use to enter the next set of events. In that regard it will be essentially a rinse/repeat for the rest of the game as long as you can prove you are able to race cleanly and practice proper racecraft. If say you failed to earn your license by the end of a chapter/section of events you can always go back to any given event, redo it and earn more points.

Ramming AI won't earn you points toward your next license, but overtaking the AI without running off the track or ramming them? Sure have some points to go toward your next license. Collect enough points by the end of that particular section of GT League will grant you access to the next section/set of events.

This concept of forcing people to do 100m stops is just archaic and I find the best way for somebody to learn is from actual experience. So why not give them some pointers on what to do in a race and what not to do and then set them free and see if they can follow the proper racecraft? Because they will be rewarded if they do. No need to treat them like a child and hold their hand as they cross the street. Let them learn from actually playing the game.
 
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Anticipation Popcorn GIF
 
05XR8
pulls up virtual chair and popcorn and fish cakes and pecans and ice cream and pretzels and a bottle of Mountain Dew - this gonna be a long one
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I don't know why you say that. I posted an actual solution to the problem. Unlike others whom refute these must be done for "tradition" or "nostalgic" reasons. My suggestion was progressive and looking into the future, and let me just say this series doesn't do enough of that.
 
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HarVee
I don't know why you say that. I posted an actual solution to the problem. Unlike others whom refute these must be done for "tradition" or "nostalgic" reasons. My suggestion was progressive and looking into the future, and let me just say this series doesn't do enough of that.
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Even when some propose a solution and/or option, it’s still seen as a threat to how others play the game. As if PD will say, “Yes! Burn it to the ground!…….. again…”. We’ll see if any members respond.
 
05XR8
Even when some propose a solution and/or option, it’s still seen as a threat to how others play the game. As if PD will say, “Yes! Burn it to the ground!…….. again…”. We’ll see if any members respond.
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It is a sad state when instead of working together for a better game we are fighting. But alas I still refute my suggestion is a good one.
 
This whole disscussion about the license tests are ridiculous. From what I've read, most agree that some tests need to be skippable for exerienced drivers, yet you continue to argue with each other. Some of the things that have been said in this thread make no sense and are pointless. This disscussion won't lead to anything, so just stop. There have been some suggestions made to improve the tests and like I said, a lot of people agree that experienced players should be able to skip the basic tests. Just leave it there.
 
Licenses didnt really help me that much to be honest. If you have a good career mode you learn as you go. They're too stale and boring much like the offline mode in general and if PD cannot reinvent them then they should give them the arse.

I think circuit experience is useful for some but for the truly legendary players (like me) they should award gold for every sector if you can nail the whole lap within the target time.
 
Silver Arrows
The issue with GT's license tests is that 99% of people, from beginners all the way up veterans, are really only treating them as objectives to be completed. It only matters to beginners because historically, licenses have been used as a way to gate off progress from the main portions of the campaign until they are completed. To veterans, they only serve as a potential skip ahead in terms of potential cars won that might give them a leg up on others in the early parts of the game. No matter which way the onion is sliced though, they don't really do a good job in explaining any of the concepts that they teach, or how it can apply to the player.
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Islaygaz
At the end of the day, licence tests are in, and your gonna have to do them to progress. Can we change the subject now?
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For GT's CaRPG format, Licenses are probably more of like GT's boss battles instead of a mere tutorial.
HarVee
I petition that the license tests be gradual and that you'd earn them by playing the game. You'd gain license test points at the end of each race depending of how well you did. If you were to Complete the first chapter/section of GT League and you do so in a clean manner and you'll earn a license which you can use to enter the next set of events. In that regard it will be essentially a rinse/repeat for the rest of the game as long as you can prove you are able to race cleanly and practice proper racecraft. If say you failed to earn your license by the end of a chapter/section of events you can always go back to any given event, redo it and earn more points.

Ramming AI won't earn you points toward your next license, but overtaking the AI without running off the track or ramming them? Sure have some points to go toward your next license. Collect enough points by the end of that particular section of GT League will grant you access to the next section/set of events.

This concept of forcing people to do 100m stops is just archaic and I find the best way for somebody to learn is from actual experience. So why not give them some pointers on what to do in a race and what not to do and then set them free and see if they can follow the proper racecraft? Because they will be rewarded if they do. No need to treat them like a child and hold their hand as they cross the street. Let them learn from actually playing the game.
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So what you're suggesting is like GT5's level system (with a bit of GTS' Sportsmanship Rating), just that it had License plates instead of numbers? Either way there'd be still restrictions in the parts of games and people won't like that (one of the reasons to not like License is that).
HarVee
It is a sad state when instead of working together for a better game we are fighting. But alas I still refute my suggestion is a good one.
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Because sometimes people can give wrong impression or such, Like improving the existing content vs removing it entirely, evolution vs revolution. There are those that'd think criticizing something means a petition for it to be removed or such. I personally hate games removing existing features (an outright objectively bad one should, but to me if it's merely an "unnecessary" one but just provides more choice/options it should stay). which happened in a handful of game series. Including for PD, where they remove Qualifying from GT1/GT3/GT4 (championship only), but it'd be wrong to claim PD never know/implemented qualifying.
 

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