Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[newmedia_dev]

That was so long ago, I don't even remember what that felt like.

let's ask the people on the TT thread and leaderboard where a disproportionate amount of GT Planet members place consistently in the top 100 and even top 10.

so some of the fastest times come from members of this forum don't mention the physics and if they do, they crack on and put world beating times in. That is a fact. 150 thousand people can keep the car on the track not understeer or oversteer and get with in 10% of that time is a fact.

so what is it, the physics is broken or all those people adapted better? because the evidence says that it's absolutely drivable and competitive at the competitive end of things.

 

[Tommy_D]

The problem is that PD keeps changing the physics for NO ****ING REASON! There was nothing wrong with the physics in v1.31. The great majority of players were very happy with the Spec II update. Go back on YouTube and watch the reviews of the v1.31 Spec II update. PD could have just left it there and not messed with anything after that. But, no, they had to go and make changes because..... why???? Anyone have an answer why PD needed to completely change the physics engine in v1.49?

Then they go and change it again in v1.55. Anyone have a reason why the physics needed to be completely changed yet again?

Then they start making tweaks to the FFB and sensitivity in specific wheels in v1.56. Again, WHY? Nobody asked for these changes. Nobody asked to have their wheel's FFB turned down and to reduce the wheels sensitivity. As we all know, the game has sensitivity sliders built right into it. We can all turn down our FFB ourselves, but no, PD had to do it for us and limit the upper end.

PD keeps making some fairly major changes to the game that effect everything about it. These changes are made without anyone's consent. They aren't made because the developers took an online poll of it's player base to see what changes they wanted. They were made without warning and we all just have to deal with it. It's an online game and we are all forced to load in the updates or we aren't allowed to play anymore. That is why people are mad about all the changes. PD has all the control and the player base has none. PD could shut the whole thing down at a moment's notice and there is nothing we can do. Lights out. Thanks for your purchase, suckers.

As much as I can appreciate PD for trying to bring in new cars and new tracks to keep their game fresh, I cannot stand that they continually make global changes to the game's entire user experience and force us to just "deal with it". I would rather they completely stopped making updates to the game. No new cars, no new tracks, no new physics, no new PP rating system, no new VR integration. Nothing. Just stop ****ing with the current game and work on GT8.

 

[newmedia_dev]

Tommy, the majority of players just cracked on. they adapted and some even set top 100 times.

your frustrations are valid but don't confuse them with the reality before us. more people than ever are participating in Sports Mode TTs and Daily Races on average.

sales are still up and i can only guess but this forum is still doing ok.

i don't think it's right FFB wise but it's not drastically broken. a little bit of realism is needed and pragmatism.

 

[Greycap]

so what is it, the physics is broken or all those people adapted better? because the evidence says that it's absolutely drivable and competitive at the competitive end of things.

The evidence is right. I've played practically every day since launch, with the same wheel, through all the physics changes, and the only time when I really noticed it right away was when they did the original big FFB change that was since reverted. And even in that case all that was needed was to crank the strength up and everything was fine again. No update has broken the game, completely transformed the handling, or anything like that. I've been able to gold licences and circuit experiences with the original physics, the current ones, and everything in between. None of my tuned cars have ever required extensive setup changes after an update other than adapting them to new PP values.

Regarding the FFB, somehow I have a feeling that a lot of people can't figure out the difference between steering rack forces and "seat of the pants" forces. The former is nearly non-existant even in a real car, you feel practically nothing other than the self aligning torque. While the wheel shakes on a rough surface it's because the entire car is shaking, not because the wheel itself moves any more than the rest of the vehicle. The same goes for bumps, you feel them through the car body, not the steering rack forces. Even the best steering rack FFB would be considered terribly bad in a sim because well, it really is just that. It only tells you that there's enough friction between the tyres and the road for the steering geometry to want to straighten the front wheels while you're turning them. Sometimes I think it's also what PD wants their FFB to be.

 

[Tommy_D]

double post

 

[Tommy_D]

i don't think it's right FFB wise but it's not drastically broken. a little bit of realism is needed and pragmatism.

I much prefer the v1.55 physics to the v1.49 physics, but again, why? Why does the physics engine keep being changed? There has been no valid reason given. v1.31 was great. It lasted for over a year and everyone seemed pretty happy. So why change it? And if v1.49 was supposed to be an improvement over v1.31, why did it only last 6 months and get changed in v1.55? How long will these physics last before PD decides to change it again?

The evidence is right. I've played practically every day since launch, with the same wheel, through all the physics changes, and the only time when I really noticed it right away was when they did the original big FFB change that was since reverted. And even in that case all that was needed was to crank the strength up and everything was fine again. No update has broken the game, completely transformed the handling, or anything like that. I've been able to gold licences and circuit experiences with the original physics, the current ones, and everything in between. None of my tuned cars have ever required extensive setup changes after an update other than adapting them to new PP values.

Regarding the FFB, somehow I have a feeling that a lot of people can't figure out the difference between steering rack forces and "seat of the pants" forces. The former is nearly non-existant even in a real car, you feel practically nothing other than the self aligning torque. While the wheel shakes on a rough surface it's because the entire car is shaking, not because the wheel itself moves any more than the rest of the vehicle. The same goes for bumps, you feel them through the car body, not the steering rack forces. Even the best steering rack FFB would be considered terribly bad in a sim because well, it really is just that. It only tells you that there's enough friction between the tyres and the road for the steering geometry to want to straighten the front wheels while you're turning them. Sometimes I think it's also what PD wants their FFB to be.

FFB is the only thing wheel users have to get input about what's going on with the car. I would say upping the FFB in a sim game beyond what is "real" is paramount.

 

[mynameis66]

I much prefer the v1.55 physics to the v1.49 physics, but again, why? Why does the physics engine keep being changed? There has been no valid reason given. v1.31 was great. It lasted for over a year and everyone seemed pretty happy. So why change it? And if v1.49 was supposed to be an improvement over v1.31, why did it only last 6 months and get changed in v1.55? How long will these physics last before PD decides to change it again?


FFB is the only thing wheel users have to get input about what's going on with the car. I would say upping the FFB in a sim game beyond what is "real" is paramount.

I agree,I cant fathom any reason for the physics changes,same as nerfing some of the cars PP used in offline mode.There doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason,some of my earlier builds I used on Tokyo,Sardegna and a few other regular tracks have gradually become way over their original PP levels.Just because PD can it seems,theres never any explanation given.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Reading through all the prior postings all I see from it all is that the physics package is wholly connected to the FFB and wheel users.
Each time they [PD] change up the physics it totally upsets all of the wheel users and in some cases totally nullifies the FFB in wheel configurations.

 

[hawkeyez]

The updates and constant physics changes reminds me a bit of Call of Duty Plunder mode. It was four players. They’d update, now it’s trios, another update would come, it’s quads again. Flip flopping back and forth all year and it was downright annoying. We had a team of four, go to play, somebody had to be the odd man out. Why did they switch it constantly? Trying to please everyone is my guess. If it was trios, let it be trios. We probably wouldn’t have even bothered. But you never knew what it was going to be until you booted up the game.

GT7 feels like that lately after every update. What’s changed now in how the cars feel? Are tires going to hit the fenders? Are my fav cars going to turn into my least favourite? You just don’t actually know what’s getting change d each time.

I bought the game right out the gates. It was arcade. Good graphics. I liked it for what it was but my thought was I’ll probably jump ship when something better comes out. Then they update. I remember everyone complain about how the wheel just goes like when your front tires scrub. To me that’s realistic and felt way better than my wheel just getting heavy. They pleased me and pissed off a bunch of other people. Then I got to tuning cars. Had some I spent time in. Update rolls around. My tunes are down right messed up. They pissed me off and pleased other people.

At this point I don’t care what they settle on, I’m just getting tired of the constant changes.

 

[Sir Crashalot]

But, no, they had to go and make changes because..... why???? Anyone have an answer why PD needed to completely change the physics engine in v1.49?

Nobody knows except PD, so we can just guess. And my guess is that they are testing different physics models for improvement in the next game. They are using GT7 to refine GT8.

 

[imChris]

so what is it, the physics is broken or all those people adapted better? because the evidence says that it's absolutely drivable and competitive at the competitive end of things.

I can adapt to any physics patch. The problem is not that the current one is undrivable (it isn't), it's that it's unfun and unresponsive.

 

[newmedia_dev]

I can adapt to any physics patch. The problem is not that the current one is undrivable (it isn't), it's that it's unfun and unresponsive.

i think "feel" is such a subjective and emotive thing that it's very hard to get one common view on things like this.

For one person they hate it for another they love it and for another that don't care or feel the difference to the same extremes.

it's all a bit marmite and subjective.

 

[imChris]

i think "feel" is such a subjective and emotive thing that it's very hard to get one common view on things like this.

For one person they hate it for another they love it and for another that don't care or feel the difference to the same extremes.

it's all a bit marmite and subjective.

Yes a lot of people disliked the 1.49 patch and prefer "simpler" physics. It is subjective at the end of the day