Gran Turismo 7 Team Picks Up Forza's Audio Lead to Improve Sound

[Johnnypenso]

^
"KY: In the first period, this is during GT1 to GT4 – so up to around 2003, we were recording engine sounds like this"

At least put in context your quote to no mislead others. Even in that first GT1 to GT4 old period, before modern pre GT5-GT6 "under-load" recordings, they also did some under load records.

Gran Turismo 2:

Pre-GT5 cars make up the majority of the car list. And if we're interested in full disclosure there's no reason to put this in there unless you're inferring that some of the new cars are just copy/pasted samples from other cars and not original recordings. Kaz is clearly inferring that the equipment is cumbersome to cart around and they haven't been able to keep up with the volume of new cars in the game:

So then it comes to, well, you should record all the cars on a Dynapack. But the problem is, a chassis dynamo is not a simple piece of equipment that a group of game creators could just pick up and use, and its not easy to carry this equipment to every place in the world where we data capture cars. It also doesn’t help that there aren’t enough people in the sound team. And the biggest problem is that the sound recordings have not caught up to the increase in the number of cars.

There's no need for huge fonts either, my vision is fine, but thanks.

 

[Skygrasper550]

^
"KY: In the first period, this is during GT1 to GT4 – so up to around 2003, we were recording engine sounds like this"

At least put in context your quote to no mislead others. Even in that first GT1 to GT4 old period, before modern pre GT5-GT6 "under-load" recordings, they also did some under load records.

Gran Turismo 2:

Vector M12!!! God I miss that car...

 

[Zer0]

Pre-GT5 cars make up the majority of the car list. And if we're interested in full disclosure there's no reason to put this in there unless you're inferring that some of the new cars are just copy/pasted samples from other cars and not original recordings. Kaz is clearly inferring that the equipment is cumbersome to cart around and they haven't been able to keep up with the volume of new cars in the game:

There's no need for huge fonts either, my vision is fine, but thanks.

Not sure why you insist.

SimTourist claimed that cars in GT were recorded in neutral to explain the sound differences between Forza (under-load). I posted proof that since GT5 cars are recorded in the same way as Forza (and even before), so that is not the reason. Also, there aren't big in-game sounding differences in GT5 between the old standards and newer premium cars that could draw a line between "under-load" and "neutral" recordings applied to the GT games method of generate sound.

So, you agree with SimTourist and try to back-up a false claim or are you trying to start your own argument rather than the one that I was replying?

 

[JKgo]

....Just a thought, what if Mr. Caviezel was hired to oversee....THE OST SELECTION???!!!

Gosh, seriously now I hope not!!

 

[SimTourist]

Not sure why you insist.

SimTourist claimed that cars in GT were recorded in neutral to explain the sound differences between Forza (under-load). I posted proof that since GT5 cars are recorded in the same way as Forza (and even before), so that is not the reason. Also, there aren't big in-game sounding differences in GT5 between the old standards and newer premium cars that could draw a line between "under-load" and "neutral" recordings applied to the GT games method of generate sound.

So, you agree with SimTourist and try to back-up a false claim or are you trying to start your own argument rather than the one that I was replying?

I said it's one of the factors. The way you process recordings and implement them is equally important. GT5/6 to me sounds the same in all gears, only the pitch is amplified. There a few somewhat decent sounding cars, but by far the majority are pure garbage. Horrible shifting sound, horrible engine/exhaust sounds, and many other deficiencies. Oh yeah it's got cool doppler effect and nice reverb, but who gives a damn if the original source sounds like crap. Out of all sims out there right now only GT I have to play with HUD on because the sound doesn't provide good enough audio cues for when to shift, can never tell when I'm close to the limit. This to me is a mark of crappy sound quality/design.

 

[Griffith500]

Quick reminder: Mike Caviezel is an audio lead. Not the audio lead.

For GT5P, GT5 and GT6, PD have a sound director, then the simulation guy in a corner somewhere and a raft of sound designers. This new title, "audio lead", implies there are now sub-teams in the sound "department" (like they did with the car modelers for GT6): so "audio leads" lead teams of sound designers. The change in structure in the modeling team accompanied a large increase in their number...

I still think Mike Caviezel is heading up a new team of sound designers in the US somewhere, to expand the production rate of new cars, or further fine tune the existing ones.



Regarding the samples, we can see that Kaz personally supervised at least some of the recording sessions; he has since personally admitted that was often done wrong. They knew before GT4 released what they should have been doing. However, very few cars benefit from their corrected recording method, because they decided early on to abandon samples and focus on simulation. This has meant the vast majority of samples in the game are recycled from before GT4.

They still need to record cars for reference purposes; how can you make sure a car sounds right if you don't know how it should sound in a wide range of situations? Note that PD have been recording some cars on track since before GT4, too; and they always recorded much more than they actually used in game.



Whilst this hiring is interesting news at the very least, keep in mind that PD have been doing a lot of work behind the scenes for many years now.

 

[Prenny]

I Tought they were going to hire the Audio Team and Lead from Evolution Studios. I'm glad to see they are going to hire Turn 10 Audio Lead and Random Audio Engineers around the world to improve the sounds, Forza Motorsport Sounds are amazing by the way.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

You don't seriously believe that all the sound shortcomings are now gone because they hired one guy that used to work on another game do you?

This new guy + AES = yes

 

[Johnnypenso]

This new guy + AES = yes

Wouldn't that be newguyAES?

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Wouldn't that be newguyAES?

Sorry???

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sorry???

New guy + AES = newguyAES

 

[TayeezSA]

I saw from that half hour video talk on the GTPlanet news page article that this this dude knows what the people want.

So Mr Penso, I guess we could be safe. It's not just one guy though, there's plenty of fresh fruits on the sound scene now.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

New guy + AES = newguyAES

Going by my original post I would have thought "this new guyAES" to be the answer




So, PD are aware. Audio staff are aware. I don't think sound is going to be a problem much longer.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I saw from that half hour video talk on the GTPlanet news page article that this this dude knows what the people want.

So Mr Penso, I guess we could be safe. It's not just one guy though, there's plenty of fresh fruits on the sound scene now.

I'll believe it when I hear it. I don't bank on speculation

 

[TayeezSA]

So, PD are aware. Audio staff are aware. I don't think sound is going to be a problem much longer.

I'm hopeful on that note. On a side note, since sound is in the bag, I wonder about the other factors like AI etc.

Back to the topic of sound: I suppose not just the engine sounds will improve but everything else surrounding the car, like tyre noise, wind noise, crash noises, crowd noise, sounds of the environment and what not

@Johnnypenso , optimism mate

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I'll believe it when I hear it. I don't bank on speculation

You banked on PCARS being realistic

Without hesitation, I might add.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You banked on PCARS being realistic

Without hesitation, I might add.

Hundreds of videos and dozens of extremely detailed exchanges with members led me to that conclusion. When PD releases dozens of videos showcasing real car sounds for GT7, instead of the usual dubbed sounds they use in trailers, I'll be a convert.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Hundreds of videos

.......That gave you no idea of how realistic the physics were

extremely detailed exchanges

Which is exactly what Griffith500 has been giving us, backed up by whistle snaps discoveries.

 

[Castrol96]

Here's another pic of PD testing on the Dynamo-meter. And does anybody remember seeing this Veloster in the news. This was way back in late 2012, might see it in GT7.

 

[Johnnypenso]

.......That gave you no idea of how realistic the physics were
Which is exactly what Griffith500 has been giving us, backed up by whistle snaps discoveries.

You win. Hundreds of people working on a game for years and hundreds of videos = 1 guy who doesn't work for Sony/PD or have access to ongoing development.

 

[SVPSkins]

Sounds good (no pun intended)

 

[Matvex]

I'm just glad we are sounding out our opinions. (pun intended)

 

[GranTurismo guy]

You win. Hundreds of people working on a game for years and hundreds of videos = 1 guy who doesn't work for Sony/PD or have access to ongoing development.

Correct. But what evens this out more is that we have now seen into the game's codes, and hence can see the path PD has decided to take in regards to sounds. And our lovely expert mr griffith500 has been able to translate what this should mean for the game's audio. He isn't a PD employee of course, but if you asked another expert to examine the files of the SETA tyre model in PCARS, I'm sure they'd come to the conclusion that the outcome would be an excellently simulated tyre.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Correct. But what evens this out more is that we have now seen into the game's codes, and hence can see the path PD has decided to take in regards to sounds. And our lovely expert mr griffith500 has been able to translate what this should mean for the game's audio. He isn't a PD employee of course, but if you asked another expert to examine the files of the SETA tyre model in PCARS, I'm sure they'd come to the conclusion that the outcome would be an excellently simulated tyre.

Well based on that indisputable evidence it's a foregone conclusion then, not sure what I was thinking. "What is should mean", is definitely exactly the same as listening to the sound on hundreds of videos, for years before the game is released. By the way, just for laughs, have you met Chippy569? He's quite the sound expert too:

If you're insinuating that some physical modeling system in which you plug in some numbers about the engine and exhaust into a synth will then spit out audio telling you what that'll sound like is feasible for video games on a current console, you've lost it That software does exist and some car manufacturers use it for exhaust system design to some extent, however you'll notice that it doesn't sound good. This method is ultimately where we'll probably end up, but it's not ready yet, and isn't going to be for a long time.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Well based on that indisputable evidence it's a foregone conclusion then, not sure what I was thinking. "What is should mean", is definitely exactly the same as listening to the sound on hundreds of videos, for years before the game is released. By the way, just for laughs, have you met Chippy569? He's quite the sound expert too:

Be that as it may, the in game files suggest that we perhaps haven't "lost it "

 

[Tenacious D]

I'll believe it when I hear it. I don't bank on speculation

Thank you, Johnny, for reminding us that sounds haven't changed a bit since GT4. Have they.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thank you, Johnny, for reminding us that sounds haven't changed a bit since GT4. Have they.

Your logical fallacy is Strawman

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Your logical fallacy is Strawman

Idk. You do seem rather anti gt these days......

 

[Tenacious D]

JohnnyP, need I remind you what you said to a certain response...

I saw from that half hour video talk on the GTPlanet news page article that this this dude knows what the people want.

So Mr Penso, I guess we could be safe. It's not just one guy though, there's plenty of fresh fruits on the sound scene now.

I'll believe it when I hear it. I don't bank on speculation

So, by all the indications of your quoted text, you haven't been impressed with anything from Gran Turismo games to date. Or you would have, you know, heard something.

I should appreciate you quoting me though. Every time you do, I get more Likes.

 

[JKgo]

....There's something that's been bothering me here.
I read somewhere that this Caviezel fella already runs his own studio/company, so how does that make him a PDI employee?

Is he an outside contractor? Did PDI/Sony buy his firm? What happened? Is he getting two paycheques each month? Or did Kaz hire his firm's services?

....Is he actually moving to Japan? Does he know how to use chopsticks?? Or to drive on the wrong side of the road???

....