Gran Turismo Sport has Sold Around 3.3 Million Copies Worldwide

[TheGeologist]

GTSport is like many French industrial projects: something working pretty well but no one asked for it.

90% of GT players expected a "true" GT and not an eSport game with the track/car lists from a prologue game.

Those are some big claims. I'd very much like to see the data/source/poll that led you to the conclusion.

Also, if "90% expected a 'true gt' they that means 10% actually asked for this, so your two points are not in agreement.

No one should have expected a true GT since PD started this game was going to be different, didn't they? Why expect the opposite of what they say?

 

[TonyJZX]

If you want to go on sales, I think there's two different things at play on the two consoles.

On Xbox, its been an embarrassment of riches, sometimes very poor riches but the titles are there.

I applaud the Xbox for having Forza 5 as a day to date console launch exclusive because that sort of thing should help. And then this annual Forza Motorsport and Horizon tag team... in theory, even a bad title is somehow ok if the competition has nothing.

On the ps4, I bought my console in 2014 and it took pretty much Jan 2018 for GTS to hit its stride. I feel that GT is such a big name that it should be 3.3 mil. based on the fact there's about 4yrs of pent up pressure.

And I'm more optimistic about GTS than about Motorsport/Horizon - I feel FH3 and FM7 are both low lights in this series which I feel that GTS truly is a new paradigm (such as it is) - is it the best in every aspect? No but there's so many new ideas and concepts I cant help but feel excited.

FM7? This turkey is pretty much dead after the car pass is done.

I suspect they will try a Nascar type pack for $20 but is it enough?

As usual, GT6 was still going 2yrs after release and so will GTS.

 

[queleuleu]

Those are some big claims. I'd very much like to see the data/source/poll that led you to the conclusion.

Also, if "90% expected a 'true gt' they that means 10% actually asked for this, so your two points are not in agreement.

No one should have expected a true GT since PD started this game was going to be different, didn't they? Why expect the opposition of what they say?

Oh, it's just my opinion and I don't pretend it's a fact. IMO, it's a matter of supply and demand: look at the sales and the 70 million PS4s sold.
It's the first GT on PS4 and it should be a juggernaut in terms of sales for a first GT which is not the case.
Project Cars and Assetto Corsa can't be seen like rivals for this kind of triple A game. That's why I think that the majority of players are simply not interested by GTSport.

 

[TonyJZX]

Oh, it's just my opinion and I don't pretend it's a fact. IMO, it's a matter of supply and demand: look at the sales and the 70 million PS4s sold.

Its true in part... in another thread here they said that only 20% of people went online in sport mode...

so what are the 80% doing exactly?

I look at it as most of us want a traditional GT7 w/ 1,000 premium cars and all the tracks we had in GT6 etc.

why is this hard to accept?

However saying that I'd say few people would want a purely multiplayer experience.

I would say wishes were horses though and that we accept a game at a price knowing what is deliverable.

GT Sport is what was deliverable. Its not what many of us want though.

 

[sems4arsenal]

I may not have asked for GTSport, but I'm mighty glad with the new direction. I'm a convert and I'm not alone I bet.

 

[queleuleu]

Its true in part... in another thread here they said that only 20% of people went online in sport mode...

so what are the 80% doing exactly?

I look at it as most of us want a traditional GT7 w/ 1,000 premium cars and all the tracks we had in GT6 etc.

It's even more difficult to understand when Forza 7 is available. (far from perfect but more than 700 cars, 32 locations, car modifications...)

 

[TonyJZX]

I agree. There's enough stuff for just about everyone and more is coming.

I look at a lof of the game mechanics and I feel like these guys are the only innovators in the industry. They do new stuff and some stuff works and some stuff doesnt but they try.

Others are stagnant as swamp water.

 

[Imari]

Why expect the opposite of what they say?

Well, pretty much all of what Polyphony has been saying since 2008 has been a pretty mixed bag of truth, half-truth, wishful thinking and outright lies. While expecting a true GT7 would have been a bit silly, expecting GTS to really come out as a Prologue size online-only experience could have been a bit of a surprise too.

I feel FH3 and FM7 are both low lights in this series...

FM7 I can understand, but FH3 is the best of the Horizons and quite possibly the best all-around racing game of the generation. It literally has something for everyone. How can you call that a lowlight?

so what are the 80% doing exactly?

Honestly? Probably not playing it any more. A lot of games get bought, played for a while and then not touched again. Most people are not the hardcore, dedicated fans that we find on GTP.

Let me give you an example from my own gaming. I picked up F1 2017 because it looked good. It was good, and I still think it's a good game. The best F1 game I've ever played in fact, by a significant margin.

But I played it through once, and then sort of went on with other games. There's nothing wrong with it, but at the same time there's nothing particularly engaging about carrying on playing it over playing something new or going back to old favourites. If I want racing I'd rather play Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally or FH3. Or I could play Tekken 7 that I picked up recently, or I could keep working through Vanquish, or work on my Final Fantasy XV bro squad, or play DCS World, or go back to my Death March Witcher 3 playthrough.

Sometimes games can be OK, but not enough to keep people engaged beyond the first few weeks. Those other 80% probably played through the single player stuff, got bored and moved on. I could see why, if you're not into competitive multiplayer there's not much there long term. Get your 20 hours of single player and move on.

 

[GT6mebe]

I'd say overall it's a bad result, the development costs have increased, the team size has doubled, which means it's not making as much revenue/profit as previous games, considering Horizon 3 sold more than 3.5 million copies on an install size of less than half of PS4. Racing sims are on their way out, PCars 2 bombed hard, a third one is very unlikely, Forza 7 bombed as well, leading to irregular dlc arrival and lack of polish, probably suffering budget cuts.

No need to worry about GT as a franchise. GTS will end somewhere near 5-7 million when its all said and done. You're looking at revenue of $200-$300 million.

Its like some have been absent for years:

The collapse of the racing genre was seen almost 5+ years ago. Forza, WRC, Dirt, F1, PCars have all declined notably. GT as well but comparatively its still a big hit. FH is the other franchise that is a big hit in the racing genre.

Some think its partly due to the falling viewership/interest in motorsports.

 

[Imari]

No need to worry about GT as a franchise. GTS will end somewhere near 5-7 million when its all said and done. You're looking at revenue of $200-$300 million.

Perhaps, but Sony sees at best half of that $300 million. 200+ people for four years, plus licensing, plus travel, plus buildings and equipment, plus the massive marketing campaign. GTS probably makes them less money than any mainline GT game, including GT6.

We've seen Sony let developers go for less. Studio Liverpool and Evolution Studios were well established studios that made very good games. If racing games really are losing their place, perhaps it's time for Sony to start putting their money into more Santa Monica or Naughty Dog projects instead of GT.

 

[AKps3]

I think they will be fine with the sale numbers/profit.
I wonder how much money they got from Tag Heuer and Puma for the sponsoring? And what about the FiA?

 

[BrunusCL82]

Maybe it's time for Sony to require Kaz to outsource the production of games, especially circuits and stuff.

GTS sold very little.

But I blamed these bad sales for the wrong decision to launch a game focused on ONLINE, and with a ridiculous number of race tracks and without a robust Single Player mode.

In my view, these were the biggest problem!

I have taken part in several forums, and I have read several testimonials from people who have abandoned GTS because of this.

Kaz decided to make GTS a niche game. This was the mistake!

Yet, part of this niche is much bothered with the ridiculous cast of racetracks.

That's why I believe GT7 will come in 2019. I did not want this. I wanted to constantly update GTS. But, realistically, it is financially inappropriate to invest resources and time into a game that every day the player base shrinks.

For 2018, finish the events of the FIA GT.

In 2019, in the first half, launches GT7 (with more circuits, cars and the online service of GTS).

 

[Northstar]

Perhaps, but Sony sees at best half of that $300 million.

Honestly, even if they received every cent I don't think it would equate to much considering how long it's been since the last installment and the sales numbers of said game. Even if you rounded up to an even 4 million it's still a fraction of what Naughty Dog has managed sales wise since 2013 (between The Last of Us and the Uncharted series they've sold over 17 million copies just off the main titles). Santa Monica hasn't had that same amount of success, but the latest God of War has already passed the 3 million mark.

perhaps it's time for Sony to start putting their money into more Santa Monica or Naughty Dog projects instead of GT.

As sad as it would be, I wouldn't be surprised. Companies don't do big budget projects like GT for small profits.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I can't see this game selling very more copies. Seriously why, if you haven't already bought into at this point, would you? Anyone into online competition must have already got it by now. Who's left? A handful of Lobby players from GT6? There is NOTHING here for anybody else.

As for income, that depends on what they sold at full price and what sold at budget price. I can't see any way Sony can be happy with the numbers at all.

Apparently 75% of players have never done even ONE sport mode race. Interesting target you picked to concentrate on there Kaz. Even when adding GT-League they messed up by copying the stupid chase the rabbit dodge the mobile chicanes leader starts 30 seconds before the start of the not-a-race daftness.

 

[Imari]

I wonder how much money they got from Tag Heuer and Puma for the sponsoring? And what about the FiA?

You think the FIA paid for that? If anything, I'd think that Polyphony paid them.

 

[AKps3]

You think the FIA paid for that? If anything, I'd think that Polyphony paid them.

I don't know. I think the FiA wanted to work with PD

 

[Northstar]

I don't know. The FiA wanted to work with PD

That doesn't really mean much. Lots of companies want to work with other companies, that doesn't always mean they want to do business for free. If I had to guess though, none of those brands you listed paid or received anything money wise. They probably came up with co-branding deals similar to what Forza does for their DLC packs (in other words, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours).

 

[AKps3]

That doesn't really mean much. Lots of companies want to work with other companies, that doesn't always mean they want to do business for free. If I had to guess though, none of those brands you listed paid or received anything money wise. They probably came up with co-branding deals similar to what Forza does for their DLC packs (in other words, you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours).

Yeah could be that way with the Fia.
But I guess Tag Heuer and Puma paid some money

 

[apexpredator100]

I'm not sure why some are making this number out to be a catastrophic failure for the franchise. Considering that racing games as a whole doesn't sell as much as they used to anymore, 3.3 million copies (possibly could be more) in less than a year isn't a bad number.

Overall, I think shifting the focus to competitive multiplayer was a good move, as it sets the GT series apart from other sim/simcade titles, and significantly adds more replay value to the game for active players. The lack of content still hurts GT Sport, especially with the track count, but at least PD has a good base they build off of for future GT titles.

 

[TomBrady]

I imagine the digital sales for all of the big autumn racing releases (GTS, FM7, PCARS2, NFSP) have a fairly high proportion of digital sales. Specifically the sims; they all offered perks for players that were exclusive to the digital versions.

Yeah the digital deluxe edition of GT Sport offered by far by the most bonuses. That's part of why I got it digitally but also because it is pretty convenient to not have to change the disc

 

[Clean Racer]

If they would just add more content, tracks specifically, they would be just fine. Folks who want to focus on single player would be happy as long as GT League events incorporated the new content and Sport Mode participants would finally see some variety in the daily races.

The lack of tracks is a huge problem. Kaz must see this as the main issue. I mean, how could he not see this?

GT Sport needs updated versions of classic GT tracks from games past and real life tracks that make the FiA partnership mean something.

There are reasons some of stick with this game. It has a lot going for it: decent FFB and physics, beautiful visuals, great sounds (finally), very cool looking replays with environments that feel a little alive and a decent livery editor. There is also pretty decent competition once you get your DR and SR up and over the beginner levels.

It' frustrating to see this title floundering when the solution is so simple. It' also frustrating to hear absolutely nothing about future content.

I hate it when developers try to build up suspense for what they are planning when it comes to future DLC. Just show us a roadmap of where this is going. I'd rather know what you're working with some projected release date. Even if things get delayed once in a while. At least I would know what they intend. Nope - just keep watching Twitter for silly teaser images. It' annoying. Very annoying.

 

[Famine]

Just for those arguing the toss about whether it's sales or shipped, or 3.4 million or 3.3 million and our headline is "a lie" (seriously?), here's Polyphony's own numbers from Jun 30th 2016:

"With sales totaling 76.79 million copies worldwide*, Gran Tursimo has become an international sensation, with strong followings in Europe and North America in particular."
Gran Turismo - 10,850,000
Gran Turismo 2 - 9,370,000
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec - 14,890,000
Gran Turismo Concept Series - 1,560,000
Gran Turismo 4 Prologue - 1,400,000
Gran Turismo 4 - 11,760,000
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue - 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP - 4,650,000
Gran Turismo 5 - 11,950,000
Gran Turismo 6 - 5,010,000
Total - 76,790,000

Yes, it says "sales". It also says "Tursimo", but let's not go there.

And then these were updated in September 2016:

"With sales totaling 76.84 million copies worldwide*, Gran Tursimo has become an international sensation, with strong followings in Europe and North America in particular."
Gran Turismo - 10,850,000
Gran Turismo 2 - 9,370,000
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec - 14,890,000
Gran Turismo Concept Series - 1,560,000
Gran Turismo 4 Prologue - 1,400,000
Gran Turismo 4 - 11,760,000
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue - 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP - 4,660,000
Gran Turismo 5 - 11,950,000
Gran Turismo 6 - 5,060,000
Total - 76,840,000

It still says "sales" and "Tursimo", but there's two things of interest. First, GT PSP sold another 10,000 units in those three months. Second, GT6 sold another 50,000 units but the total only went up by 50,000. Add up the individual numbers and you get 76,850,000 copies. That's because these figures are rounded to what looks like -4 decimal places (which makes sense, because the Japanese use a four-place grouping for large numbers - man [10,000], ju-man [100,000], hyaku-man [1,000,000], sen-man [10,000,000] - so rather than rounding to thousands or millions, or even tenths of millions, it's rounded to "man"). This will become important later.

Anyway. The next update was December 2016:

"With sales totaling 76.91 million copies worldwide*, Gran Tursimo has become an international sensation, with strong followings in Europe and North America in particular."
Gran Turismo - 10,850,000
Gran Turismo 2 - 9,370,000
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec - 14,890,000
Gran Turismo Concept Series - 1,560,000
Gran Turismo 4 Prologue - 1,400,000
Gran Turismo 4 - 11,760,000
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue - 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP - 4,660,000
Gran Turismo 5 - 11,950,000
Gran Turismo 6 - 5,130,000
Total - 76,910,000

Still sales, still Tursimo, and nothing for GT PSP this... quarter. GT6 went up by 70,000 and again you'll notice that the total went up by 70,000, so the total figure is 10,000 below the sum of the games.

That was the last update until the pre-GT Sport update. That was on September 30th 2017, and reads:

"With sales totaling 77.02 million copies worldwide*, Gran Tursimo has become an international sensation, with strong followings in Europe and North America in particular."
Gran Turismo - 10,850,000
Gran Turismo 2 - 9,370,000
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec -14,890,000
Gran Turismo Concept Series - 1,560,000
Gran Turismo 4 Prologue - 1,400,000
Gran Turismo 4 - 11,760,000
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue - 5,350,000
Gran Turismo PSP - 4,670,000
Gran Turismo 5 - 11,950,000
Gran Turismo 6 - 5,220,000
Total - 77,020,000

GT6 shifts another 90,000 copies over those nine months, GT PSP shifts another 10,000 and the total - correcting the rounding error - moves up by 110,000.


So, over this period from June 2016 to September 2017, GT PSP sold 20,000 copies and GT6 sold 210,000 copies, while the series as a whole gained 230,000 sales.

But hold the phone. These are rounded to the nearest "-man", as the rounding error from September to the following September tells us. GT PSP sales could have been as much as 30k or as little as 10k, plus or minus the odd one. GT6 could have sold 200k or 220k, plus or minus the odd one. We don't really have any way of knowing.

Still, we can see that with the figures taken as recorded, GT6's monthly sales are hovering in the teens of thousands each month (while GT PSP inexplicably still sells about 1,000 a month) even as late as September 2017:
6/16 - 9/16: ~17k/mo
9/16 - 12/16: ~23k/mo
12/16 - 9/17: ~12k/mo

6/16 - 9/17: ~14k/mo


So, the May 5th 2018 numbers...

"With sell-through sales totaling 80.4 million units worldwide*, Gran Turismo has become an international sensation, with strong followings in Europe and North America in particular."

Well, it doesn't say "Tursimo" any more at least...

It seems pretty simple to say "80.4 - 77.02 = 3.38" and then chalk up 3.4 million sales to GT Sport. Only we've got a rounding problem again. While all previous figures were rounded to the nearest -man, the latest one is rounded to the nearest tenth of a million. Or is it? Well, I don't really know - perhaps it's a genuine 80.40 to the nearest -man, or a rounded down 80.44, or a rounded up 80.35.

As we don't know, and we want to find out the minimum actual sales in that time frame, let's say it's the barest minimum possible of 80.350 (because that's the base line figure that we can rely on without any other assumptions) and let's say that the previous figure was the maximum possible of 77.024 (because that's the peak figure that we can rely on without any other assumptions). That's a minimum difference of 3,326,000 sales - or about 3.3 million.

And while we're at it, let's say that GT PSP has continued to sell at 1,000 per month since September 2017, and GT6 has continued to sell at 14,000 per month since September 2017. Over seven full months (the figures were 30th September to 5th May), that's 105,000 copies of legacy games. So of those 3,326,000 minimum sales, 3,221,000 - or about 3.2 million - are not attributable to legacy games.


So now we have three figures. On the face of it, the sales numbers have gone up by 3.4 (3.38) million. But, due to the rounding employed, this could be as little as 3.3 (3.326) million. And people are still buying legacy games, which might make the figure as low as 3.2 (3.221) million. That all averages out to around 3.3 million. 3,309,000, if you're bothered.

And that's why "around 3.3 million" is in the title. It might be more, and it could be less, but it's certainly not inaccurate.


Also we actually said all this, but without the boring math above:

With GT Sport launching last October (read our thorough review), it’s fair to say it contributes the lion’s share of the 3.38 million new sales. How much exactly is unknown, however.

... Sport‘s numbers could actually be higher than 3.3 million, depending on how many unsold copies of older GT games are out there in the wild.

 

[TonyJZX]

I think a further question would be 'how would PD get more sales at this middle stage of the game'?

Did Spec 2.0 move the needle for GT5? Does GTS need a Spec 2? Will GTS hit that 5 mil anyway by Xmas?

I also think this game is a bit of a 'loss leader' - I'm not sure of this $300 mil. number because this doesnt feel like a $300 mil. game.

GTA5 was a $300 mil. game.

But even if the $300 mil. figure is correct it doesnt matter. Sony will always use GT as a console pull for the PS. So if they lose money, its not a big deal.

Can you imagine a PS wihtout GT? No.

Its not a studio like Liverpool or Evolution they can cut free. Sony is PD, PD is Sony, PD is GT is PS.

They rode out the GT5/6 year. They'll ride out this.

 

[Stephan]

My thoughts about this.

It's actually impressive that in just eight months they managed to rack up 3 million copies.

For a GT game that doesn't have a proper career mode, I never had this much fun since GT3 and 4. When PD introduced the custom race mode that featured that things I wanted that lacked from 6 such as fuel depletion, tire wear, penalties, car damage (not visually but at least something that will affect the performance of your car), and lastly ability to earn money, it was all I needed and that's it.

And as for racing games dying, I wouldn't say so. It's just that the more popular sub genre of racing games these days aka closed track racers don't appeal much to the casual gamers and that led to what some may call the decline of the racing game genre.

Just my two cents on the current state of racing games as a whole.

 

[TonyJZX]

And as for racing games dying, I wouldn't say so. It's just that the more popular sub genre of racing games these days aka closed track racers don't appeal much to the casual gamers and that led to what some may call the decline of the racing game genre.

There's a few things going on...

- open world has kind of gained a mass audience. THere's a feeling that track racing is 'corridor racing' and restrictive. With the PS4 not having a FH type game, I suppose its worrying to people and companies who want into this genre.

- death of arcade driving games. I sort of think something like FH3 has taken over that? This world wants 'realism' I guess and 'fake cars' doesnt cut it when real cars in other games cost just as much.

- the struggle is with the console tier 1 games, ie. GTS and FM7 to gain more sales over their predecessors while basically trying to do the same thing, ie. track racing

As it see it, 'decline' in GTS and Fm7 is actually just stagnation. How do we keep the current audeince while expanding our base? With lootboxes?

 

[KingFrog]

However if it's an online game then your local version has to be the latest. So you have to wait.



Mostly because "good" sales are relative to how much was spent on the game. In absolute terms, 3+ million sales is really very good and puts a game in the top tier. However, a company only looks at the sales compared to what it cost them to make the game. 3 million sales from a $20 million budget would be incredible success. 3 million sales from $150 million budget is probably getting close to an outright loss.

I'm one of those that isn't a fan at all of the "modern" direction that GT has been going in, but first and foremost the series needs to not die if I'm ever to see them change. I'd honestly be surprised if GTS cost less than $100 million, based on the size of the studio, the length of development and some of the OTT marketing that went on. Sony is going to keep pumping that sort of money into GT until they pull the plug, and so Polyphony needs to find a way to make a game that justifies that sort of investment.



You should remember though that there's more than one player in each PS4 household, and they usually have their own accounts. If a dad and two sons want to play GTS on the family console, that's three accounts.

I'm sure there's plenty of single user PS4s out there as well, but I doubt that the number of either is trivial.

I'd be shocked if GT sport cost more to make than GT5. GT5 had OFFICIAL licensing from WRC, Top Gear and Nascar . On top of that Polyphony had to make a new in-house graphics AND physics engine from scratch for GT 5/6. GT6 most likely carried over the licenses ( and most assets) from GT5. GT sport uses a modified GT5 graphics engine with all the textures being rebuilt from scratch to support PBR . I'v already debunked the lie of returning cars being made from scratch, they were touched up. GT sport does not have WRC/ Nascar /top gear/ or any major licensing deals for that matter. The soundtrack is mostly reused from old games and the licensed music tracks are about half of what they were from Gt5/6 . . Oh and licensing for real world tracks got cut down by 3/4ths since this game doesn't have all the tracks previous GTS made .

GT sport feels very low budget compared to GT5 and 6.

Also drive club, Evo made a cutting-edge graphics engine from scratch and arguably spent more money on modeling than polyphony did due to the sheer detail of the environments compared to GTS .

 

[Stephan]

As it see it, 'decline' in GTS and Fm7 is actually just stagnation. How do we keep the current audeince while expanding our base? With lootboxes?

I think its just in the matter of trying to make the player really like closed track racing. Maybe finding the right game to convince the player to give closed track racing a go? I use this from my experience since I remember GTR2 made me love closed track racers more.

But to be honest, with the audience we have that wants open world racing just like The Crew, NFS, FH, etc., its gonna be hard for us to convince them to like closed track racers.

 

[SestoScudo]

I actually find open world racing games to be boring really.Circuit is where its at with the competition.

Only open world racing game that has a soft spot for me was Test Drive Unlimited I put so much hours into that one too bad part 2 was garbage. I just hope the next would able to recapture the essence of part 1.

 

[Oyashiro-sama]

Glad the sales were poor, especially when you consider that this was the first launch in a new platform. Call me evil, and this pains me as well since I am (or depending on the future, maybe was?) a big GT fan, but it's what happens when:

- You completely ignore the "collectors-type" fans.
- You completely ignore the "offline-type" fans.
- Sony makes you pay a fee for online...
- The car/track list is very short and full of stupid fantasy cars/tracks.

Let's hope that GT returns to its glory days with the next release.

 

[CJ1045]

Not sure why people are saying the sales are poor of GTS. They seem pretty good to me. Further I suspect that Sony has had extra PS Plus subscribers because of the game. I am 100% certain that there has been at least 1 extra.

Further I really like playing the game offline too. The GT3 endurance at Monza and the JSGT races at any of the three tracks are ace.

Personally don't have an issue with the number of tracks but would like one or two more of those used in real world GT and prototype racing so I can emulate those races in my lounge. Following on from that the ability to pick the hole grid of cars would be very cool so enabling multi-class racing outside of the league races.

Oh and finally in the lengthy post above you mean significant figures not decimal places.

CJ