Gran Turismo Sport Physics Thread (Poll)

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yeah I've read his impressions. Said so in my first post (quoted at the top of this page). It does look like an improvement, the question is how much and is it enough to compete with the latest sims?

We'll have to wait until the game is released and reviewed to be sure of how it compares to the likes of AC and Pcars

 

[Johnnypenso]

I still don't expect GT to be on the level of PC sims, but at least get rid of the overdamped suspension, unrealistic slip angles and fix high speed aero and it should be good enough.

It does look like an improvement, the question is how much and is it enough to compete with the latest sims?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I didn't contradict myself there. GTS does look like an improvement over past GTs. Just that I'm not sure even with all that improvement it's going to be as good as PC sims.

Ideally I'd like it to be on the same level as AC, but considering PD needs to pander to the casual crowd as well, I'd settle for 90% of AC's physics fidelity. That's where the "good enough" comment comes from.

 

[super_gt]

@super_gt What do you think to this crash by a GT Academy champion?:

This seems close to the real world

 

[Adam41]

As I may have said already the competitors had to do a time trial in the Lotus Evora around Brands Hatch Indy on sport hards as part of their qualifying for the Nations Cup.

I had a go the following day, I'd set a 51.8 on my 9th lap and a 51.7 on my 25th with a load of high 51s in between.

I've just tried the same combo on GT6 and set a 51.3 on my 6th lap.

In GTS you can accelerate out of a corner and the rear is planted. Obviously if you come out of the corner and your throttle or steering input is overly aggressive the car will break away but in GT6 the rear is more loose.

Through the high speed corners, the issue with GT6's MR physics not being able to load up the fronts and constantly having to manage the rear slipping with small steering inputs seems to be much improved in GTS. Some of that weird slip angle to achieve faster times has been ironed out.

The difference in physics may be up to a second difference over a longer lap but with GTS' physics still being a work in progress and this test only concerning an MR layout car, I'm sure the differences may change up to release. I thought it was at least interesting to compare and shows improvements being made.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

As I may have said already the competitors had to do a time trial in the Lotus Evora around Brands Hatch Indy on sport hards as part of their qualifying for the Nations Cup.

I had a go the following day, I'd set a 51.8 on my 9th lap and a 51.7 on my 25th with a load of high 51s in between.

I've just tried the same combo on GT6 and set a 51.3 on my 6th lap.

In GTS you can accelerate out of a corner and the rear is planted. Obviously if you come out of the corner and your throttle or steering input is overly aggressive the car will break away but in GT6 the rear is more loose.

Through the high speed corners, the issue with GT6's MR physics not being able to load up the fronts and constantly having to manage the rear slipping with small steering inputs seems to be much improved in GTS. Some of that weird slip angle to achieve faster times has been ironed out.

The difference in physics may be up to a second difference over a longer lap but with GTS' physics still being a work in progress and this test only concerning an MR layout car, I'm sure the differences may change up to release. I thought it was at least interesting to compare and shows improvements being made.

How does 51.7 compare to the competitors? Did they get many laps to qualify?

It's only combo I did laps (Think race had Sport Soft tyres though, maybe also driving aids?) on although never attempted a fast lap. Only had four clear flying laps IIRC, two were my first time playing GT SPORT so I was driving rough purposely to test how it handled and other two was in race when I was in lead so took it easy without taking any risks to avoid looking like an idiot.

Sounds right compared to GT6, I was expecting the rear to lose grip a lot more based on what you said on day before event (Link) but it was quite reasonable which was a positive. Handling balance seems quite a bit better, the ways tyres grip and lose grip and also power delivery. Going to try GT6 later and see how it behaves and report back. Hopefully won't be too slow, was quite happy when I found out from Tidgney what track I will be racing on given it is so simple and have been quite fast on it in past regarding raw pace.

Did notice on one of the races (Think it was Big Willow), someone changing tyres to Racing Softs. Not sure if that was fair but seemed well run in terms of what was inputted by staff. Come to think of it, is SRF no longer in the game as an aid? That's a positive if so. Was grid order random depending on list order or based on practice times?

I think I mentioned to you before event hoping there will be a new direct drive GT wheel so was good to see it looks like there is going to be one. Do hope they improve FFB, with that wheel feedback should feel awesome including for other games like PCARS and Assetto Corsa.

 

[ynot]

Individual adjustments of each tire would be nice instead of just front and rear. The options they give us are enough for me but each tire seperate would be awesome.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I think tire pressure on front and rear axles would be the minimum, which I would be satisfied with. Although the ability to setup each corner would be nice, especially for oval racing.

Wondering if anyone who drove the stock ND MX5 on GTS can also try it on Assetto Corsa and give a comparison.

 

[BrodieBoi94]

I answered yes.

PD need to get as close as possible to real life handling and tuning simulation, and with the ability to adjust each point individually, they will be one step closer.

I hope they add more realistic values too, and the ability to change the units. I don't know firsthand kgf/mm, I have to use a unit converter to calculate.

One more thing is tuning parts should be much more in depth. Using Forza as a comparison, you can add cams, individually and many more parts which makes tuning a car to a specific power output easier and more efficient than a power slider. (They should still have the power slider just for EVEN MORE precision when tuning).

 

[Adam41]

How does 51.7 compare to the competitors? Did they get many laps to qualify?

It's only combo I did laps (Think race had Sport Soft tyres though, maybe also driving aids?) on although never attempted a fast lap. Only had four clear flying laps IIRC, two were my first time playing GT SPORT so I was driving rough purposely to test how it handled and other two was in race when I was in lead so took it easy without taking any risks to avoid looking like an idiot.

Sounds right compared to GT6, I was expecting the rear to lose grip a lot more based on what you said on day before event (Link) but it was quite reasonable which was a positive. Handling balance seems quite a bit better, the ways tyres grip and lose grip and also power delivery. Going to try GT6 later and see how it behaves and report back. Hopefully won't be too slow, was quite happy when I found out from Tidgney what track I will be racing on given it is so simple and have been quite fast on it in past regarding raw pace.

View attachment 548664

Did notice on one of the races (Think it was Big Willow), someone changing tyres to Racing Softs. Not sure if that was fair but seemed well run in terms of what was inputted by staff. Come to think of it, is SRF no longer in the game as an aid? That's a positive if so. Was grid order random depending on list order or based on practice times?

I think I mentioned to you before event hoping there will be a new direct drive GT wheel so was good to see it looks like there is going to be one. Do hope they improve FFB, with that wheel feedback should feel awesome including for other games like PCARS and Assetto Corsa.

The competitors had a minute or 2 free practice whilst others were getting set up, then had 10 minutes to set a lap. Most guys were doing high 52s, some mid 52s and the Japanese guys set low 52s, the best being a 52.1.

Your race had ASM forced on. Driving aids (braking or braking and steering, which has replaced SRF) were optional as was the transmission and TC.

My comments today were regarding on throttle car behaviour. I actually only experiencing the lift off oversteer with the 458 GT3, may have also been because I touched the kerb slightly.

Everyone should have been on racing softs with the race cars (some people just did what they wanted and entered the track ).

Grid order was strange. I thought pole was who got furtherest round the lap in free practice whilst others were being set up. But in the the US v Japan v UK race, I overtook @Tidgney in free practice whilst he was messing with his wheel or something, and he started on pole and I started 6th! So I think it was random.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The competitors had a minute or 2 free practice whilst others were getting set up, then had 10 minutes to set a lap. Most guys were doing high 52s, some mid 52s and the Japanese guys set low 52s, the best being a 52.1.

Your race had ASM forced on. Driving aids (braking or braking and steering, which has replaced SRF) were optional as was the transmission and TC.

My comments today were regarding on throttle car behaviour. I actually only experiencing the lift off oversteer with the 458 GT3, may have also been because I touched the kerb slightly.

Everyone should have been on racing softs with the race cars (some people just did what they wanted and entered the track ).

Grid order was strange. I thought pole was who got furtherest round the lap in free practice whilst others were being set up. But in the the US v Japan v UK race, I overlooked @Tidgney in free practice whilst he was messing with his wheel or something, and he started on pole and I started 6th! So I think it was random.

If only they let you compete as well, UK would have had really high chance of winning then on home turf. At least you got to experience winning feeling in Olympic venue with Tom commentating against some of the best drivers. Do you know if the winners get to keep the massive trophies at all?

Thought something like that was on, would explain why car felt slow even with better tyres compared to when I had a quick go earlier. Good that they got rid of that magic force.

Just got worried a bit if it will be too much like GT6 but like you said earlier, seems like some of that weird slip angle approach might be a thing of the past. I hope so anyway, didn't try using handbrake.

I guess that explains why it didn't look a performance advantage then regarding tyres.

I started second which made sense but then I noticed first person was different than order in practice. Just had a look back on photos and seems it's based on member list order so based on who joins first I assume. I guess I was lucky to start in correct position then, starting 16th would have made it really hard to win on such a short race and more likely to be involved in crashes.

 

[Tidgney]

I think the grid order on the tournament was based on pod number where as the 2nd day it was random (I assume that's a session setting)?

 

[Adam41]

I don't think @Tidgney entered the session first so doesn't explain his pole. I genuinely think it was random.

They got to keep the trophies. One of the PR guys was trying to sort the logistics out for one of them to take it back to Spain.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I don't think @Tidgney entered the session first so doesn't explain his pole. I genuinely think it was random.

They got to keep the trophies. One of the PR guys was trying to sort the logistics out for one of them to take it back to Spain.

It was whatever order the member list showed before entering free practice from what I've seen. That might be random then but think logic would be if it is based on who joined first but didn't see that part of process so won't know.

That's quite awesome for the winners then, seemed whoever kept it on track the best won.

 

[mister dog]

So apparently he left on stabilty control, but even still riding those kerbs like that and 2 wheels on the grass a lot of times without any consequence?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So apparently he left on stabilty control, but even still riding those kerbs like that and 2 wheels on the grass a lot of times without any consequence?

Not just the curbs but two wheels up on the grass more than once. Like this, at 130 mph in a very high speed corner and off throttle to boot:

Hopefully it's just the stability assist at work here.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As I may have said already the competitors had to do a time trial in the Lotus Evora around Brands Hatch Indy on sport hards as part of their qualifying for the Nations Cup.

I had a go the following day, I'd set a 51.8 on my 9th lap and a 51.7 on my 25th with a load of high 51s in between.

I've just tried the same combo on GT6 and set a 51.3 on my 6th lap.

In GTS you can accelerate out of a corner and the rear is planted. Obviously if you come out of the corner and your throttle or steering input is overly aggressive the car will break away but in GT6 the rear is more loose.

Through the high speed corners, the issue with GT6's MR physics not being able to load up the fronts and constantly having to manage the rear slipping with small steering inputs seems to be much improved in GTS. Some of that weird slip angle to achieve faster times has been ironed out.

The difference in physics may be up to a second difference over a longer lap but with GTS' physics still being a work in progress and this test only concerning an MR layout car, I'm sure the differences may change up to release. I thought it was at least interesting to compare and shows improvements being made.

Interesting comparison with GT6 stock Evora setup.

I drove my Evora replica ( Full option/fuel weight + 6 speed manual corrected ratios ), 277HP / 1431kg with 39/61 weight distribution ( ballast at pos 43 ) as in real car, Brands Hatch Indy, with SH tire, managed 52.7xxx in 1st lap with cold tires. GT6 is a bit too fast if GTS Evora is the same as stock GT6 Evora with much less weight than my replica ( 100+kg difference )

Surprisingly, the Evora replica I built is planted considering it has 61% at the rear. If you are interested to drive Evora build with real life specs as close as possible including alignment, give this a try and see if there's much difference to GTS Evora :

Lotus Evora + Evora S ( Basic + Full Option )
Standard + Close Ratio + IPS

Tuned to replicate Lotus Evora and Evora S Full Model Range
Comfort Soft​

​

CAR : Lotus Evora '09
Tire : Comfort Soft

Specs BASE Evora 6MT ( Including Close Ratio )
Basic Trim with Full Fuel Tank
Horsepower: 277 HP / 280 PS at 6500 RPM
Torque: 252.4 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 100%
Weight: 1383 kg
Ballast : 53 kg
Ballast Position : 43
Weight Distribution : 39 / 61
Performance Points: 457


Specs Evora FULL OPTION 6MT ( Including Close Ratio )
Full Fuel Tank
Horsepower: 277 HP / 280 PS at 6500 RPM
Torque: 252.4 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 100%
Weight: 1431 kg
Ballast : 101 kg
Ballast Position : 43 or 28
Weight Distribution : 39 / 61
Performance Points: 454

Specs Evora S FULL OPTION 6MT ( Including Close Ratio )
Full Fuel Tank
Horsepower: 345 HP / 350 PS at 6900 RPM
Torque: 297.4 ft-lb at 4900 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.7%
Weight: 1437 kg
Ballast : 107 kg
Ballast Position : 41 or 27
Weight Distribution : 39 / 61
Performance Points: 485

Specs Evora FULL OPTION IPS
Full Fuel Tank
Horsepower: 277 HP / 280 PS at 6500 RPM
Torque: 252.4 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 100%
Weight: 1436 kg
Ballast : 106 kg
Ballast Position : 41 or 27
Weight Distribution : 39 / 61
Performance Points: 454

Specs Evora S FULL OPTION IPS
Horsepower: 345 HP / 350 PS at 6900 RPM
Torque: 297.4 ft-lb at 4900 RPM
Power Limiter at : 99.7%
Weight: 1442 kg
Ballast : 112 kg
Ballast Position : 40 or 26
Weight Distribution : 39 / 61
Performance Points: 485



GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
Wheels : Standard Size Stock
Car Paint : In Violet Metallic

Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports ECU - Only For Evora S
Catalytic Converter Sports - Only For Evora S
Intake Tuning - Only For Evora S
Exhaust Manifold - Only For Evora S
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission - ONLY For Close Ratio and IPS, use stock gearbox for 6MT Standard Ratio.



Suspension - Eibach Spring + Bilstein Damper - Custom OEM Style
250/300 F and 400 R
Personal Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 125 125
Spring Rate: 5.36 7.14 - 4.46 OPTIONAL Front Rate
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 5 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 1.0 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.10 0.20


Suspension - Eibach Spring + Bilstein Damper - Custom OEM Style
250/300 F and 400 R
OEM Lotus Optimum Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 125 125
Spring Rate: 5.36 7.14 - 4.46 OPTIONAL Front Rate
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 5 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 0.3 1.6
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.18


Suspension - Eibach Spring + Bilstein Damper - Custom OEM Style
250/300 F and 400 R
OEM Lotus Stable Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 125 125
Spring Rate: 5.36 7.14 - 4.46 OPTIONAL Front Rate
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 5 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 0.5 1.5
Toe Angle: 0.03 0.21



DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Stock 6 Speed Toyota EA60 Manual Close Ratio

Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed to 340kmh / 205mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.538
2nd 1.913
3rd 1.407
4th 1.091
5th 0.831
6th 0.738
Set Final Gear : 3.777 ( As the real Evora uses different Final for 5th and 6th at 3.238,
I calculated the 5th and 6th in GT6 based on overall ratio calculation using 3.777 Final
Original 5th and 6th on the real car is 5th 0.9697 and 6th 0.8611 for Close Ratio )


DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Stock 6 Speed Lotus IPS ( Intelligent Precision Shift ) Toyota AT U660E
Evora + Evora S
Set Default
Set Final to 3.685
Set Auto Max Speed to 380kmh / 236mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 3.300
2nd 1.900
3rd 1.420
4th 1.000
5th 0.713
6th 0.608
Set Final Gear : 3.685



LSD - TRD OEM LSD - BASE
Rear
Initial Torque : 21
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 15


LSD Open Bevel Gear - OEM Lotus Evora ( OPTIONAL )
Rear
Initial Torque : 5
Acceleration Sensitivity: 5
Braking Sensitivity: 5



Brake Balance:
4/4 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 3/3, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.


Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 4/4 brake balance as starting point.


Notes :

Included 2 replays of test laps at Tsukuba and Eiger driving the Evora S 6 MT with TRD Base LSD and OEM Optimum Alignment + Optional front spring rate at 4.46 kg/mm or 250 lb/in.

Tsukuba lap time at 1:04s and Eiger at 1:13s on CS tire.

Tips for driving the Evora :

Be smooth with steering and weight transfer.
Never be afraid to stab the gas to correct the line or tuck the nose in as long as both rear tires still has traction.
Brake late can be done, be sure to hold the steering well.

View attachment 487737​

COMPARISON SHOTS OF REAL CAR STOCK RIDE HEIGHT / GROUND CLEARANCE 125MM TO GT6 REPLICA 125MM/125MM



View attachment 487870

View attachment 487866

View attachment 487869

View attachment 487871

​

Brands Hatch Indy test : Evora Base Full Option spec, 454PP, 277HP 1431kg, 39/61 split, ballast at position 43, close ratio 6 speed manual corrected box, TRD LSD/Base. Suspension : 250/400, Lotus Optimum Alignment :
Ride Height: 125 125
Spring Rate: 4.46 7.14
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 5 3
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 0.3 1.6
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.18

SH tire, 52.7s 1st lap cold tires. Time 13.00, grip real, no ABS or other assist, 4/4 brake balance ( nicely balanced handling even with 61% rear weight )
I would be interested too, to know if the bolded part of your post happens to the setup I used above. I'm using stick controller, so a wheel should give different feedback

 

[SkyBreaker]

Is there any word on the clutch? It was terribly implemented in GT5/6.

 

[Adam41]

@Ridox2JZGTE that setup just made the issues with MR cars worse, probably because of the stiffer suspension and more rearward weight distribution.

Through the fast left right before the last corner, you can stay flat but you're constantly managing the rear and you get that weird slip angle going on. In GTS you could take that flat out, turning in, loading up the front tyres and having confidence in the rear it wasn't going to slide away.

Of course if you let off the throttle, you would then expect the rear to break loose. And I think an element of that was missing in the GTS physics.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ridox2JZGTE that setup just made the issues with MR cars worse, probably because of the stiffer suspension and more rearward weight distribution.

Through the fast left right before the last corner, you can stay flat but you're constantly managing the rear and you get that weird slip angle going on. In GTS you could take that flat out, turning in, loading up the front tyres and having confidence in the rear it wasn't going to slide away.

Of course if you let off the throttle, you would then expect the rear to break loose. And I think an element of that was missing in the GTS physics.

The fast left right, I entered with half throttle for split second and flat out, did it by instinct. The rear stays planted in that way ( I'm using stick btw ), and I'm thinking it's the way I setup the damper/ARB to stabilize the car due to the heavy rear. If you increase the rear extension to 4, it will be more eager to rotate, responsive to steering/direction change. Reduce rear extension to 2, and it will be lazier.

The LSD is also a factor, the real Evora has open rear diff ( but also aided by EDL - Electronic Differential Lock from 2010 MY onwards as part of DPM stability control system implementation, EDL is a stability control aid that reduce engine power sent to the inside wheel using the brakes, avoiding wheel spin - this can be switched off, Assetto Corsa do not allow this to be turned off which is inaccurate ), maybe 5/5/5 LSD would make it interesting on the left/right esses, though may not help much with MR quirks in GT6.

I tried the left/right flat out, and the rear did slip, more likely from the weight transfer physic and tire model issue.

Thank you for giving time to try the setup GT6 MR and RR cars are very touchy. The rear spring on the setup is actually softer than the stock setup that came with the car Stock rear spring is 7.79 kg/mm with even softer front spring 4.08 kg/mm.

I can only hope at least in GTS, stock alignment ( camber/toe ) will be based on real car spec from factory for road cars, not just one value fits all with crazy big toe in like in GT6.

Forgot to mention, the Evora was tuned on comfort soft originally

 

[super_gt]

Stop with the personal digs, you will not be asked again.

First of all I want to apologize for this post.

I had an hour and a half with GT Sport and that included a good few laps at the 'ring in a street car and no you can't do the same thing at all.

But feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

Then again it isn't finished you know......................

I want to bet with you that there will be no tire air pressure tuning/simulation in GT Sport.
If there is tire air pressure in GT Sport and I lose feel free to ban me.If there is no tire air pressure in GT Sport and I win I do not want nothing,it is a win/win situation for you.
Will you take this bet?

 

[Scaff]

First of all I want to apologize for this post.

Given that's not me driving I'm not exactly sure what relevance it has to me and what I experienced?

First that's not the same build I played (its from the previous day), you have no idea what aids were used in that and it also shows going off track causing an accident (and the resulting rubbish collision physics).

I want to bet with you that there will be no tire air pressure tuning/simulation in GT Sport.
If there is tire air pressure in GT Sport and I lose feel free to ban me.If there is no tire air pressure in GT Sport and I win I do not want nothing,it is a win/win situation for you.
Will you take this bet?

Why on earth would I take a bet on something I have never claimed would be in GTS and have consistently complained about being missing from the series?

I seriously suggest that you take a step back and actually think about what your posting in a measured and constructive manner, as you posting habits of the last few days have not been acceptable.