Grip bug thread

[GT_Alex74]

@7HO Just share your replays on the PS4 when you can, it's all good like this Also, what wheel are you using currently ?

And about the end of your post, you're quoting out of context and RA's post is irrelevant to what Spurgy said (was not linked by Famine and came after provocations on Devil's behalf).

Anyway, let's stop talking about Devil, we know he has the bug, we know he's not willing to help there, end of story, let's move up onto productive stuff.

 

[7HO]

I have some real life stuff to attend to right now but i might take you up on this. I or someone else could definetly upload your replays if needed or we could do some testing together. I am not asking these things cause i think you are making this up. In fact it is the opposite, if you have a 4500 irating you obviously should know a thing or two about racing and physics so i am just curious if you are right about this without jumping to early conclusions. Also take to mind that in iRacing you are usually running the same car and tracks for longer periods of time so maybe that factors in as well when looking at consistency.

Just to clarify, I am not currently on 4500. I have had an IR of about 4500 then over a period of a few months I had bad race after bad race and my IR plummeted by almost 1000. I stopped enjoying iRacing, they put the price up, I quit. I've only just signed back up. I have not raced yet and have only been testing trying to adapt to the changes and get back up to speed. I still don't like the on the edge physics, the tyres still have the same heat issues where they just melt and lose all grip. It seems like the game is much harder in open classes and I don't think i want to invest the time into those so I am thinking of sticking with the fixed classes. So far I haven't got up to a pace I'm happy with in the MX5 and I've been struggling with heel/toe with these new pedals as I'm a right foot brake guy. But this week I immediately found good pace in the Cadillac so that is promising. I don't really like driving it or the MX5 and I haven't had time to test in the Ruf yet. Last week I did some quick testing in the VW and I was instantly fast in that with a standard set, I did not try this week but I might give that a try. But I still have not made up my mind if I want to stick with iRacing, they charge too much IMO and I am not convinced it is good value and the sim still has the same issues with the tyres. I put a ton of money and time in over there but I stopped because I did not think that justified continuing to put more money into it and I thought it best to cut my losses. I don't think that has changed. The only game I have actually been enjoying recently has been Dirt Rally even with its terrible FFB. Only offline but I don't take it serious, it's just fun. I've never been into rally or good at it but recently something just clicked for me with Dirt rally and I've had a bit of fun.

Also, what wheel are you using currently ?

Primarily a CSL Elite that I've been testing for review. Previously a T-GT. I have a G29 on another rig that my boys are using and that I now hate since testing the CSL Elite.

 

[GT_Alex74]

If there's a hardware cause to your issues, I'd suspect it would come from your CSL Elite rather than your console since it has not the full support Logitech and Thrustmaster wheels have on GT games.

 

[7HO]

If there's a hardware cause to your issues, I'd suspect it would come from your CSL Elite rather than your console since it has not the full support Logitech and Thrustmaster wheels have on GT games.

As i said i suspect from conversations I have had in the past and previous experiences that I mentioned that I have been having this problem for some time when I have played this game with both the G29 and T-GT. Actually one of the disappointments of the T-GT was that I did not find more consistency in GT Sport when using it as i was hoping it would help with my consistency issues in GT Sport. As I said, back then I never suspected there was an issue with my game or that my game might actually be different to others. Even when I said something to the effect of "I feel like we must be playing a different game" I never actually believed that was the case. My arguments about physics and grip were all made when using the G29 and T-GT. I don't think I have made a post on here until today since I started testing the CSL Elite.

 

[andryush]

Is there a plausibility that a user may mod their wheel some how to achieve higher/faster turning speed?

I have no explanation for the 80% throttle on the straights though... Maybe deliberately trying to slow themselves down in an attempt to avoid an even more ridiculous looking lap time?

You can change internal wheel rotation. In Thrustmaster T300 you have to push combination of 2 buttons. As for throttle it is possible to physically readjust potentiometers in pedals, so they won't register input above 80% value.

Can't someone from the dev team just post a "hey, we know, we're working on it". Is that too much to ask for? Other games manage to do that. There's a system for it in the game ffs! There are people whose job it is to write and publish these types of updates. Why no word? At the end of the day, this is all I want to make me feel better right now. Some acknowledgement that they actually care about the people responsible for their incomes over the last two decades.

Acknowledging that game suffers from a bug can hurt sales significantly. So it's normal that PD isn't answering. If you want to have official reply, you should try contacting user @teramoto_pd on official PS forums. He is technical guy from PD and he answered few community questions back when closed beta was running. Or try posting on Twitter.

Lol what's going on

The replays don't show much bcz the videos are poor quality

Is he's the same guy that said that he drives on DS4 with throttle and brake assigned to X and Square buttons?

 

[Highlandor]

@Highlandor what you mention about GT5/6/Prologue are design issues more than bugs, and were available for everyone to exploit. As long as you knew these things worked, all you had to do was to pull some sliders in the right direction to benefit from it as well, so everyone had the same chances. This here on GTS is not something available to everyone, I can't go into the settings, change my ride height and benefit from that grip bug, thus I don't have the same chances as someone who has the bug, and that's where things are coming unfair.

Short story : everyone can have access to it ? Then just use it, as long as the devs don't change it, consider it is their intent you exploit that. Some people can acces it while some others technically can't ? Then that's unfair, and becomes a core problem for competitive environments.

The only people who can correct this grip bug is PD, I believe they've been contacted or in some way this has been brought to their attention - and credit to you and the people responsible for collating the info and highlighting it.

As previously mentioned by others, this thread started very well but went off track / downhill a little, I was merely trying to provide some general (bigger) perspective to try and help it get back on track.

The points I was trying to make were:

- this grip bug is being micro analysed and the history of bugs and unfairness in GT seems to have been forgotten, aswell as the fact that even if this bug is fixed, the game will still be fundamentally unfair (unless all cars are created exactly equal etc etc).

- even when something unfair is available to all, not everyone chooses to use it.

But hey, been on GTP long enough to know what happens here, and bigger picture/perspectives are no way near as important to some as what self righteousness is.

So wishing you and the other positive contributers best of luck with this thread 👍

 

[Spurgy 777]

There's no implication. You - and others - posted people's usernames in association with this bug and you should not have.

Why they're linked is because they're posts including people's usernames in association with this bug, which should not have been made.

And how exactly should we have known that we shouldn't have been mentioning usernames in relation to this bug? Your post in the other thread was responding to calling people out as cheaters (something we haven't done, at least in the posts you mentioned), and none of my posts with videos that had usernames in them were removed, and I received no warnings about them, so it was only logical to conclude that they were fine and I continued to mention names of accounts that did laps that I could prove had something wrong with them. Since your post a few members of staff have commented on the two threads, even Jordan has been tagged in this one, and until now no one has raised any issues with the many many posts where usernames were mentioned, in fact I've had the odd like on my posts from staff so how was I supposed to know I was doing something I shouldn't have been doing is beyond me.

I fail to see how it's our fault that we didn't know you wanted us not to mention names, if that's what you wanted then I'm sure we would have been happy to make every effort to hide the usernames we have been mentioning as it wasn't our intention to make this a witch hunt.

Anyway, this is somewhat off topic now so I won't keep going on, but it is completely unreasonable to expect us to know we shouldn't mention names whatsoever.

 

[miata13B]

And how exactly should we have known that we shouldn't have been mentioning usernames in relation to this bug?

It is in the AUP, it is not just this thread, it is the whole forum.

 

[Spurgy 777]

It is in the AUP, it is not just this thread, it is the whole forum.

No it's not. Where exactly?

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

I was watching I*O#,F's stream yesterday and S}NNN_A has switched to a different account for now which he used for the FIA races. With the normal physics, he was able to lap Brands Hatch Indy in the Group 4 within a tenth of I*O#,F (easily one of the fastest GT Sport players currently). So, we have to give him respect for that, as well as give him the benefit that he didn't know he had the bug or its potential (an experienced driver will not suddenly start using unconventional lines and braking points).

Nevertheless, it's PD's fault not anyone else's. However, a situation like this can reveal the true character of a person judging by how they deal with it. Let's just hope this gets fixed and forgotten quickly, because it's unfair for the guys infected either way.

On a side note, I really wish PD had a proper method of contact, or an active community manager who transfers information like this (or even simple things which could be fixed in little time) to its destination and assures everyone it will all be okay.

 

[Furinkazen]

It is in the AUP, it is not just this thread, it is the whole forum.

There are rules about harassing and accusing members. Big difference from mentioning names associated with a BUG.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If there's a hardware cause to your issues, I'd suspect it would come from your CSL Elite rather than your console since it has not the full support Logitech and Thrustmaster wheels have on GT games.

I do know from personal experience that there is an issue with the FFB on the G29 if the console is put into rest mode versus being powered off and restarted. Coming up from rest mode the wheel gets very heavy with lots of resistance like not having power steering. This only happens when coming out of rest mode on GTS and can be rectified by restarting the console from a powered down state.

I do not play GTS coming out of a rest mode state as a result. Granted this is not grip related but is a hardware related issue concerning GTS and by a product that is supposed to be fully supported and optimized by the game.

 

[miata13B]

No it's not. Where exactly?

• You will not post any person’s private information within the forum but your own. You acknowledge that you are solely responsible for any personal data or information that you choose to disclose and make publicly accessible via GTPlanet, and that any personal data or information may remain indefinitely.

My take is putting people's PSN names into any thread that are not members here or are members here that have not disclosed their PSN accounts break this rule.

To say, if you used my screen name, I have made it public here which would be okay, but say I did not have my screen name public, it would violate this rule if my PSN was posted by someone else regardless if it was in positive or negative view.

I could be wrong about this, but that is how i have always taken this issue in the GTP AUP.

Anyways, I hope this gets fixed. I m happy that we have members here taking this matter seriously to replicate the issue to bring it to light to PD and get I fixed.

 

[Furinkazen]

• You will not post any person’s private information within the forum but your own. You acknowledge that you are solely responsible for any personal data or information that you choose to disclose and make publicly accessible via GTPlanet, and that any personal data or information may remain indefinitely.

My take is putting people's PSN names into any thread that are not members here or are members here that have not disclosed their PSN accounts break this rule.

To say, if you used my screen name, I have made it public here which would be okay, but say I did not have my screen name public, it would violate this rule if my PSN was posted by someone else regardless if it was in positive or negative view.

I could be wrong about this, but that is how i have always taken this issue in the GTP AUP.

Anyways, I hope this gets fixed. I m happy that we have members here taking this matter seriously to replicate the issue to bring it to light to PD and get I fixed.

Technically every shared GTS video is illegal then as you have other people PSN IDs in them.

 

[Spurgy 777]

• You will not post any person’s private information within the forum but your own. You acknowledge that you are solely responsible for any personal data or information that you choose to disclose and make publicly accessible via GTPlanet, and that any personal data or information may remain indefinitely.

My take is putting people's PSN names into any thread that are not members here or are members here that have not disclosed their PSN accounts break this rule.

To say, if you used my screen name, I have made it public here which would be okay, but say I did not have my screen name public, it would violate this rule if my PSN was posted by someone else regardless if it was in positive or negative view.

I could be wrong about this, but that is how i have always interrupted GTP AUP.

Anyways, I hope this gets fixed. I m happy that we have members here taking this matter seriously to replicate the issue to bring it to light to PD and get I fixed.

Well PSN names aren't remotely private, and if posting them violated the AUP, no one would be able to post any videos of races on GTP ever unless they somehow removed all of the names as @Furinkazen mentioned above. To say it violates that rule makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

• You will not post any person’s private information within the forum but your own. You acknowledge that you are solely responsible for any personal data or information that you choose to disclose and make publicly accessible via GTPlanet, and that any personal data or information may remain indefinitely.

My take is putting people's PSN names into any thread that are not members here or are members here that have not disclosed their PSN accounts break this rule.

To say, if you used my screen name, I have made it public here which would be okay, but say I did not have my screen name public, it would violate this rule if my PSN was posted by someone else regardless if it was in positive or negative view.

I could be wrong about this, but that is how i have always taken this issue in the GTP AUP.

Anyways, I hope this gets fixed. I m happy that we have members here taking this matter seriously to replicate the issue to bring it to light to PD and get I fixed.

If they haven't disclosed their PSN, how do you know it's them??? Unless they come out and give it away, then that's on them.

The races can be streamed, which also show user names, can be recorded and so on. IT'S AN ESPORT GAME. Get use to the idea that people will use this as a medium for content creation, and unless you go directly and ask them to block out your name you may be seen in gameplay. The message on here today from a Mod seems to be, don't post up anything that has names either in video or a written post.

It seems a couple members came out on their own to say "that's me" and make an account. Them doing that is of their own accord I'd say so how does that stand?

Also how is one to block driver names in say a live video. There are plenty of members here that post up their twitch stream on their wall when they're on. Should they not, since it would technically violate the "privacy" of others not knowing they're on said stream? Should people really have to then later edit a live stream of content when posting up a video of it on youtube or here because it has names of players that may or may not want them being seen?

If yes is the answer then why isn't all streamed and content creation not as aggressively modded here?

 

[Shottah072]

The videos and PSN id's are not private. I see no problem with sharing them.

 

[kjeldsen]

If someone posts here under a different name than his PSN name i could understand that calling him out on his PSN name would be wrong.
But PSN names are everywhere in GT-Sport, everyone can save the replay, play it and post on Youtube, but posting the same videos here is against the rules?

 

[miata13B]

Well PSN names aren't remotely private, and if posting them violated the AUP, no one would be able to post any videos of races on GTP ever unless they somehow removed all of the names as @Furinkazen mentioned above. To say it violates that rule makes no sense whatsoever.

We both see it our ways, which is fine. We can chat about it privately or start another thread about this topic of what is and is not acceptable elsewhere. We should not be discussing this any further in this thread.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

There's no implication. You - and others - posted people's usernames in association with this bug and you should not have.

Why they're linked is because they're posts including people's usernames in association with this bug, which should not have been made.

I want to apologize to the community and the drivers who's names I referenced in my post that @Famine mentioned earlier. I know better and should not have done that . I did not have any malicious intentions.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I do want to say that IMO the approach to the conversation could have been handled a lot better. I think he would have been more responsive had it been just 1 person conversing with him.

@7HO Just share your replays on the PS4 when you can, it's all good like this Also, what wheel are you using currently ?

And about the end of your post, you're quoting out of context and RA's post is irrelevant to what Spurgy said (was not linked by Famine and came after provocations on Devil's behalf).

Anyway, let's stop talking about Devil, we know he has the bug, we know he's not willing to help there, end of story, let's move up onto productive stuff.

Now, back to the subject of the thread.

Something he did mention was the bug does not work in FIA races. Also stated he was 1 sec off top 10 in FIA practice.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Is there any estimate on how widespread this bug could be? I've had some suspicious races yesterday. I'm far from the best driver yet once I'm in the zone I can keep up pretty decently. However a couple times yesterday I thought I was comfortably ahead, 2sec in front of another car and concentrate on the best lines, then not half a lap later this DR.A driver is already on top of me. Passes then wipes out again.

Each time I get close to DR.A I get more of these examples of very quickly recovering crash outs. Also when they run into you their car doesn't seem as effected as if you're hit by AI controlled cars. It would be natural that people with the grip bug rise to DR.A, I rather stay in DR.B for now, less accidents.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

This moment stood out to me because despite braking before the car in front of me I almost rammed them. I'll break it down with screenshots and timestamps.


0:57:333 - I'm braking, they're not, both going the same speed

0:57:400 - by the time they start braking, I am going 1mph slower (125 vs 126)

0:57:500 - I am now going 2mph faster (123 vs 121)

0:57:650 - I am now going 4mph faster (119 vs 115) and heading straight into their ass

At first I thought maybe it was a slipstream during braking, or brake bias. But now I'm thinking...grip bug? Whaddya think folks?

 

[Spurgy 777]

Is there any estimate on how widespread this bug could be? I've had some suspicious races yesterday. I'm far from the best driver yet once I'm in the zone I can keep up pretty decently. However a couple times yesterday I thought I was comfortably ahead, 2sec in front of another car and concentrate on the best lines, then not half a lap later this DR.A driver is already on top of me. Passes then wipes out again.

Each time I get close to DR.A I get more of these examples of very quickly recovering crash outs. Also when they run into you their car doesn't seem as effected as if you're hit by AI controlled cars. It would be natural that people with the grip bug rise to DR.A, I rather stay in DR.B for now, less accidents.

Nothing remotely accurate, we have very little information on what is causing this to happen and little means to see if slower drivers have it or not. The problem is the slower you are, the harder it becomes to judge how fast you are going by looking at your lap as you could be taking a good line but slowly (early braking late throttle) or a bad line quickly (missing apexs but still carrying good speed for the line you're taking). We can make rough estimates extrapolating from what we do know and a couple of logical assumptions but they're a stretch at best, probably not a huge %.

@ItIsOkBro Almost definitely slipstream, you're going faster so have to brake earlier, it's perfectly normal. From what we've seen a bugged driver could probably brake 20-25m past that 100m board.

 

[XtremePhoto]

Is there any estimate on how widespread this bug could be? I've had some suspicious races yesterday. I'm far from the best driver yet once I'm in the zone I can keep up pretty decently. However a couple times yesterday I thought I was comfortably ahead, 2sec in front of another car and concentrate on the best lines, then not half a lap later this DR.A driver is already on top of me. Passes then wipes out again.

Each time I get close to DR.A I get more of these examples of very quickly recovering crash outs. Also when they run into you their car doesn't seem as effected as if you're hit by AI controlled cars. It would be natural that people with the grip bug rise to DR.A, I rather stay in DR.B for now, less accidents.

I’ve had that happen (suspicious catching up from behind) only to check the replay to see them cutting corners. It’s easy to get paranoid...happens to me too.

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

Having read this thread I have not seen anyone ask what driver level or how far anyone through the game is as far as I've seen.

Given this is affecting people who are at least competing for the top 10 it would suggest that it may be trigggered by how long been playing and what level you are or are we saying anyone could have this bug from day one ?

If it is down to how long played or levels then the population who could be affected for the bug drops dramatically per @Milouse statistics:

Also would Ra1784's profile in terms of DR or SR show when the bug started to benefit him.

Just some thoughts - may have already been considered but not clear from OP etc.

Distance driven among players
Distance % of Players Average Km
A. Less than 10 Km 7 3
B. 10 to 50 Km 11 27
C. 50 to 100 Km 8 73
D. 100 to 500 Km 28 262
E. 500 to 1000 Km 14 717
F. 1000 to 5000 Km 24 2265
G. > 5000 Km 7 10494
Statistics based on 36,113 players representing 3,611,300 players (3,139,700 of the final game) on 2018-01-10.

 

[JacksHerer]

It looks odd that his brake lights are on without any brake input, that could be down to lag that your not seeing his inputs? Also there is no suggested corner gear on his display? Maybe typical when viewing other drivers in your own replay? Do other cars on the track have matching brake lights to brake input?

 

[zzz_pt]

This moment stood out to me because despite braking before the car in front of me I almost rammed them. I'll break it down with screenshots and timestamps.


0:57:333 - I'm braking, they're not, both going the same speed

0:57:400 - by the time they start braking, I am going 1mph slower (125 vs 126)

0:57:500 - I am now going 2mph faster (123 vs 121)

0:57:650 - I am now going 4mph faster (119 vs 115) and heading straight into their ass

At first I thought maybe it was a slipstream during braking, or brake bias. But now I'm thinking...grip bug? Whaddya think folks?

He's braking in the correct place. Maybe even being a bit conservative (100m mark and cones on the right side). You're on his slipstream plus he could have his brake balance towards the front. All good.

The grip bug is way more noticible. Someone affected by it could break at the 50m mark and still make the corner faster than you.

 

[GT_Alex74]

This thread is going to be shut down, I have recreated it following a request from @Famine so see you there : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/grip-bug-thread-v2.373389/

 

[Shottah072]

Is there any estimate on how widespread this bug could be? I've had some suspicious races yesterday. I'm far from the best driver yet once I'm in the zone I can keep up pretty decently. However a couple times yesterday I thought I was comfortably ahead, 2sec in front of another car and concentrate on the best lines, then not half a lap later this DR.A driver is already on top of me. Passes then wipes out again.

See, this is exactly what this thread dont need. A buch of people coming in saying they witnessed something suspicious. Thats not helping at all and only feeding in to the paranoia. If you do see something and are not sure, save the replay and put it up for review or send it to @Spurgy 777 and ask him to have a look at it, he is been doing most of the video research and knows what to look for. As long as people dont start spamming videos of drivers faster then them or braking late this one time.

Remember there have only been 4 confirmed drivers so far, 1 fixed it so 3 left. So far evidence suggest anyone capable of getting within roughly 3 seconds of the leaderbord would be able to make it on there with the bug. That means there are probably thousands of people per region capable of doing it with the bug but only 3 are making the leaderbords. So this suggest its not widespread at all. Keep your eyes open, but dont let the paranoia get to you.

This moment stood out to me because despite braking before the car in front of me I almost rammed them. I'll break it down with screenshots and timestamps.


0:57:333 - I'm braking, they're not, both going the same speed

0:57:400 - by the time they start braking, I am going 1mph slower (125 vs 126)

0:57:500 - I am now going 2mph faster (123 vs 121)

0:57:650 - I am now going 4mph faster (119 vs 115) and heading straight into their ass

At first I thought maybe it was a slipstream during braking, or brake bias. But now I'm thinking...grip bug? Whaddya think folks?

What i see is you braking early but very soft and he seems to brake normal and you get caught by it.

Dont build up your brake slowly. Apply full brakes straight away and slowly let off the brake when you turn in.