Group Lotus to Tony Fernades: Cease and Desist

InvincibleM5
Whatever happened, the one I will support is the one at the back of the grid, wearing the Green and Yellow Livery. Enough said!
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Hopefully with 1Malaysia Racing as a team name.

Anyway it is great news. I hope the influx of cash will help in development of R31 and boost Kubica's chances to win the title.
 
Jackington
Which will also be black and gold next year, actually. :P
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Owh I forgot about that :lol:

Get ready for a little bit of confusion next year...

mr_geez
Hopefully with 1Malaysia Racing as a team name.

Anyway it is great news. I hope the influx of cash will help in development of R31 and boost Kubica's chances to win the title.
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Hopefully...

Team Lotus operates independently of Lotus Cars. It is a separate body, assembled purely for Formula 1 racing. The company has been inactive since 1995, when Team Lotus withdrew from the championship, but David Hunt has owned the rights ever since. He has now sold them to Tony Fernandes. A team does not need engines from a company in order to use that name – the original Team Lotus never actually used engines built by Lotus. They were usually powered by Cosworth, tough they experimented with Lamborghini and Honda and used Renault power in the age of late Ayrton Senna. Now if Group Lotus wants to claim anythig of the name ''Lotus'' being theirs then I will just write the name ''Lotus'' on my notebook and let's see if they claimed the book is theirs.....

Umm, anyway yes the cash will definitely help the development of the R31 and seriously I am always having a dream of seeing Robert Kubica being a World Champion. Been a fan of him since he got into the car with the BMW, couple of races later a podium in Monza. He has a massive future. We'll see ;)
 
Hopefully Renault-Lotus will be able to compete with the big teams. I like the livery of the car. Still prefer Renault's though.
 
I know the history of Team Lotus, but let's be realistic for a second. Both parties don't have anything in common with the Classic Team Lotus (which died, from my point of view, the moment Pacific re-branded themselves as Team Lotus in mid 90's) . Tony Fernandez only used the Lotus brand to gain sponsorship money, it had nothing to do with "true racing spirit of Colin Chapman". Funny thing is now his team (if he still wants to use Team Lotus name) will bring free advertising to Group Lotus (which, under direction from Danny Bahr, has a bright future as a car manufacturer).
 
mr_geez
I know the history of Team Lotus, but let's be realistic for a second. Both parties don't have anything in common with the Classic Team Lotus (which died, from my point of view, the moment Pacific re-branded themselves as Team Lotus in mid 90's) . Tony Fernandez only used the Lotus brand to gain sponsorship money, it had nothing to do with "true racing spirit of Colin Chapman". Funny thing is now his team (if he still wants to use Team Lotus name) will bring free advertising to Group Lotus (which, under direction from Danny Bahr, has a bright future as a car manufacturer).
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For a second thought, you're right... But still the main thing is that why would Group Lotus wants to take action of the use of the name Team Lotus is what I totally don't understand. I'll leave this to the expert and see the result... Whatever happened or the name it will be, Mr. Fernandes team will gain my support.
 
Fernandes' Lotus declared first that they were going to use the black and gold 'john player special' type livery first.
Proton Lotus are just being complete retreads and are now copying them, they (renault) should just stick with the yellow and black scheme from this year, it looks great.

Anyways, now they can sign Petrov and Resign Kubica, I do however support mass booing and thumbs downs upon the lotus-related people joining the team, like the aftermath of what happened in 2002 when Barrichello had to let Schumacher pass.

Also, I think it would be great if someone made and uploaded to youtube, a compilation video of Fernandes' lotus team's TV footage, with (Come and see) 'The Real Thing' by Russel Morris as the song.
 
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RTSolvalou
Fernandes' Lotus declared first that they were going to use the black and gold 'john player special' type livery first.
Proton Lotus are just being complete retreads and are now copying them, they (renault) should just stick with the yellow and black scheme from this year, it looks great.
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Ermmmmm, No.

Quote: "Team Lotus, which was known as Lotus Racing this year, announced at the season finale in Abu Dhabi that they intended to revive the classic colour scheme, while Lotus Renault GP are understood to have been working on their design since September."

from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...urer-announces-return-to-F1-grid-in-2011.html

As for Pietrov signing, I wouldn't be so sure about him, if you look closely there are no sponsors from Russia on the new Lotus Renault livery so there is still a long road to finding out who will be Kubica's partner next season.
 
A couple of months ago I read on Formula.com that Proton's Lotus design was going to be green and yellow like this year's lotus, with Fernandes switching to black and gold, I guess it changed, or they got it wrong.
 
mr_geez
I know the history of Team Lotus, but let's be realistic for a second. Both parties don't have anything in common with the Classic Team Lotus (which died, from my point of view, the moment Pacific re-branded themselves as Team Lotus in mid 90's) . Tony Fernandez only used the Lotus brand to gain sponsorship money, it had nothing to do with "true racing spirit of Colin Chapman". Funny thing is now his team (if he still wants to use Team Lotus name) will bring free advertising to Group Lotus (which, under direction from Danny Bahr, has a bright future as a car manufacturer).
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No team on the grid has any originality to them at all, Ferrari is not Enzo's Ferrari, neither is McLaren.
What matters is that the spirit of the team is continued, which personally I believe Fernandes has already achieved while Group Lotus are simply pulling a Red Bull.

I also don't like how Lotus Cars are pretending the Team Lotus history is there's. Almost all of their marketing material refers to their "Formula 1 heritage" etc (this was before Bahr came on the scene, he's just taking it to a new level now). I didn't really mind it before but now its rediculous, Group Lotus have no history in F1 beyond sharing the same founder as Team Lotus. They have had plenty of time to join up with Team Lotus and help them out (which they did in 1993 I think it was?) and for the most part have done nothing.
If we're going to get high and mighty about what Chapman would have wanted, he made Lotus Cars and Team Lotus seperate companies specifically so they didn't interfere with each other. If one was in trouble, the other could continue (as happened in 1994/5). So if anything, Lotus Cars are the ones tearing the history apart here.
Not that Fernandes is so much better, he didn't enter originally with the Team Lotus name but I think he has shown the drive and ability to pull it off regardless.

At the end of the day, simply sponsoring a team is not very "Lotus" whereas starting a small team and beating the other newcomers with only 6 months is very "Lotus". I'd rather Lotus Cars leave F1 alone as they have never had any connection to it before and let Fernandes make his mark. Or at the very least, Proton should just sponsor or own Renault as "Proton".
Bahr's strategy seems pretty cheap to me (and probably very effective, but cheap all the same). Rather start new teams and operations, he simply sponsoring existing ones (in some cases, like ART, trying to secure immediate success). It doesn't suggest long term commitment, 7 year deal or not.

Other than that though, terrible livery but good to see Renault's future is somewhat secure (and Kubica's!).
 
Globally , Lotus as a brand , will get much more recognition from fighting for top spots on the grid between the likes of McLaren, Ferrari or Mercedes than to fight for 19th place between Virgin's and HRT's (which also had limited time to establish themselves before this season,so beating them, especially considering how bad their cars were, is not such a big thing, for me at least) of F1 world.

BTW Tony F. started the team as LitespeedF3 (that is why it is based in Norfolk, where it was based for over 20 years) and got the license for racing in F1 as Litespeed, so let's not bring ideology and what would Chapman want into this topic because we are not in the 70's anymore (my first Colin Chapman reference was tongue-in-cheek ;)

I don't see why in current economic climate anyone would want to build a team from the ground up. It is just not reasonable, you'll be a backmarker for many years with very limited screen time thus limited advertisement exposure. Especially when you want your brand to get big piece of automotive market now dominated by Ferrari or Porsche.

My first memory of F1 is Ayrton Senna in Lotus-Renault scoring a victory in Jerez 86' Grand Prix over Mansell in Williams-Honda. Since then I always was a fan of the Lotus Brand (ok , Roger Moore in Submarine Esprit had also small part in it). I don't think it would be like that if I started following F1 in say 94 and getting excited because Phillipe Adams was lucky enough to qualify for Belgian GP. I hope that Lotus will get many new fans not because they are the Lovable Losers but because they are one of the main forces in racing world (be it in F1 or any other racing series).

The better results -> more exposure -> more people wanting to own Lotus Cars -> Lotus getting back to status of producer of incredible super-cars
 
*sigh* I will never understand F1 and politics...

Who cares about the name or whatever it is going on, lets the results do the talking! Ferrari & McLaren didn't become famous just for their name ya know... But yeah, I'm not interested in the naming dispute or whatever but I'm more interested which "Lotus" is gonna perform better. I'm sure Tony Fernandes' team is gonna be a lot better next year with the Renault engine and Red Bull gearbox package. On the other hand seeing how Renault were performing at the end of this season I can't doubt them either. Both have potential to score some points, but I doubt either could actually win races just yet. :P

With that said though, having two Lotus teams in F1 ain't really bad actually. Didn't stop Red Bull running 2 teams either... :lol:
 
Muzaffar
With that said though, having two Lotus teams in F1 ain't really bad actually. Didn't stop Red Bull running 2 teams either... :lol:
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Well yes Red Bull is Red Bull but the other one is called the Toro Rosso... Unlike the case with Lotus, both of their cars might have about the same livery and the same name. Now that's a bit of a trouble for next year...
 
As long as Renault are in f1, I'll support them, even if they end up with the bad side of Lotus.
 
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, Lotus-Renault's livery for 2011:

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This is all just so much faceplam. Please, Group Lotus and Proton, quit while you're behind.
 
They're not that bright. Dany Bahar has said he has "no issue" with there being two teams known as Lotus, but you can bet the FIA and/or Bernie will have something to say about it. I'm pretty sure there is a rule that dictates the changes a team can make to its name: 1) the new name must be an actual word (Hispania are known as HRT because the FIA did not recognise 'Hispania' as a word), 2) the name cannot reflect negatively on another team (so I can't start a team and call it Red Bull Are Cheaters), and 3) a team cannot have a name that is similar to that of an existing team, which is for the purposes of identification on timing sheets and among fans. Now, "Red Bull" and "Toro Rosso" might mean the same thing, but they sound totally different. And they're also owned by the same company. In this case, however, we have two teams known as "Lotus-Renault" who are engaged in a custody dispute over the name and are intending to run similar liveries in 2011. There's no way the FIA is going to allow this.

This isn't over. Not yet.
 
I really hope a name gets changed. I don't want to have to listen to Johnathon Legard get confused to much.
 
InvincibleM5
Well yes Red Bull is Red Bull but the other one is called the Toro Rosso... Unlike the case with Lotus, both of their cars might have about the same livery and the same name. Now that's a bit of a trouble for next year...
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I guess your right about that. But still, Lotus-Renault & Team Lotus isn't the same now does it? :P Well who cares... like I said before the name isn't important, its the results that they get which is important!

Peter
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you, Lotus-Renault's livery for 2011:

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This is all just so much faceplam. Please, Group Lotus and Proton, quit while you're behind.
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*facepalm*
They already made the livery? I guess Tony had to come up with something else then... maybe the Lotus Gold Leaf color perhaps? :D
 
mr_geez
Globally , Lotus as a brand , will get much more recognition from fighting for top spots on the grid between the likes of McLaren, Ferrari or Mercedes than to fight for 19th place between Virgin's and HRT's (which also had limited time to establish themselves before this season,so beating them, especially considering how bad their cars were, is not such a big thing, for me at least) of F1 world.

BTW Tony F. started the team as LitespeedF3 (that is why it is based in Norfolk, where it was based for over 20 years) and got the license for racing in F1 as Litespeed, so let's not bring ideology and what would Chapman want into this topic because we are not in the 70's anymore (my first Colin Chapman reference was tongue-in-cheek ;)
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Firstly, yes of course Lotus gets more coverage if they are a leading team rather than a backmarker. That makes perfect business sense. However, I'm not a businessman looking to invest in a F1 team, I'm a motorsport fan who would like to see teams/companies work for their success, not just buy into it and then leave after a few years.

Secondly, Tony did not setup Litespeed.
Litespeed was setup by Nino Judge and a group of ex-Team Lotus staff as an F3 team who have been running for a few years now in British F3. They had always planned on one day maybe trying to get into F1 and the 2010 rule changes whereby $40 million budgets were the benchmark. They brought in Mike Gascoyne to help their entry who in turn brought in Tony Fernandes after the entry failed. This is when Proton, Lotus Cars and Malaysia got involved and Litespeed and Team Lotus stopped being involved so much.

I realise we are not in the 70s, but honestly, Gascoyne and Fernandes built their team from nothing in 6 months. Is this not slightly reminiscent of Lotus and the garagistes cobbling together racing cars to take on the big boys? Sure Fernandes clearly was only initally using the Lotus name as a marketing tool but as I said, its the spirit of the team that matters (to me) and its certainly got the right vibe in my opinion.
Fernandes' team has also just finished their rookie season in style with a lot of hard work put into it, both in presentation and development. This appeals to me (and many fans it seems) more than car manufacturers simply buying into a legacy like Lotus Cars has and is doing. Sure Fernandes initially bought into the Lotus name too, but he has now proven he has the ability to present a solid and promising team with long term amibitions, he didn't simply buy a team and re-name it, he laid down the groundwork.
 
Muzaffar
I guess your right about that. But still, Lotus-Renault & Team Lotus isn't the same now does it? :P Well who cares... like I said before the name isn't important, its the results that they get which is important!
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Well, people can call them Lotus-Renault and the other one Team Lotus but, if I'm not mistaken, when the result comes up both of them then will be counted as Lotus-Renault as opposed to RBR-Renault, Force India Mercedes etc...

Currently, the 2011 entry published by FIA named the Team Lotus as Lotus-Renault.

This Danny Bahar guy is giving me a real headache... :mad:
 
A black-and-gold Lotus and a green-and-yellow Lotus.

My head may explode, but at least for a good reason.
 
Ardius
Secondly, Tony did not setup Litespeed.
Litespeed was setup by Nino Judge and a group of ex-Team Lotus staff as an F3 team who have been running for a few years now in British F3. They had always planned on one day maybe trying to get into F1 and the 2010 rule changes whereby $40 million budgets were the benchmark. They brought in Mike Gascoyne to help their entry who in turn brought in Tony Fernandes after the entry failed. This is when Proton, Lotus Cars and Malaysia got involved and Litespeed and Team Lotus stopped being involved so much.
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Excuse me , English is not my native language so I probably worded that paragraph about Tony F. and Litespeed incorrectly. I meant that Tony did not build anything from ground up. He bought into LitespeedF3 , which was based in Norfolk and setup by Judge (just as you wrote), when he thought about getting into F1. And I understand that was a logical move, because setting something as big as F1 team from ground up nowadays is almost Mission Impossible.

We'll see if he is going to race with "Big Boys of F1", if my bookie came with bet: How many times will Team Lotus car get to Q2 in 2011 season? over/under set at 3 ? I would take under and never look back.
 
He didn't buy into Litespeed, Litespeed are still seperately owned and have minimal ties to the team.
None of the Litespeed F3 team have carried over to the F1 team as far as I can tell, once the original entry failed, it was no longer Litespeed.

How many times do you have to be told Fernandes' team started from nothing? They didn't have a base, all they had was Gascoyne and his designs and a dog.

Of course Fernandes' team isn't going to be fighting Ferrari just yet, but my point is he built a team from very little in a very short space of time. For now, he has just defeated Branson, Wirth and Manor Competition but perhaps next season he may be beating Toro Rosso.
 
Lopez
"We always had the idea and then it leaked out through the press," said Lopez. "Three days later they [Team Lotus] were announcing they were doing black and gold. At the end of the day, I don't think there will be any confusion as to which cars will be which in terms of position on the track."
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He should not speak so soon.

I'm in a difficult place right now, I like Petrov and want him to succeed but this group lotus fiasco has soiled Renault's image for me, so I sort of want them to suffer.
 
Ardius
He didn't buy into Litespeed, Litespeed are still seperately owned and have minimal ties to the team.
None of the Litespeed F3 team have carried over to the F1 team as far as I can tell, once the original entry failed, it was no longer Litespeed.

How many times do you have to be told Fernandes' team started from nothing? They didn't have a base, all they had was Gascoyne and his designs and a dog.

Of course Fernandes' team isn't going to be fighting Ferrari just yet, but my point is he built a team from very little in a very short space of time. For now, he has just defeated Branson, Wirth and Manor Competition but perhaps next season he may be beating Toro Rosso.
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Well , it's all matter of point of view, you say they have minimal ties , I think their cooperation is much more than minimal. We agree to disagree on these topic (just like on the topic of "building from the ground up").

Besides it'll be interesting to have Litespeed competing against ART and Lotus-Renault vs. Team Lotus.

Whatever the outcome will be, we will have one winner.

Lotus.

:)
 

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