Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,609
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Does anyone really care what Clive Chapman thinks? I know I don't. He seems to be forgetting that Team Lotus continued for a good number of years after Colin's death.
Group Lotus to Tony Fernades: Cease and Desist
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
- 321 comments
- 36,678 views
- 1,748
That was my original point, but Mr. Stinson has raised many a good point.
- 1,748
And in wades the view of Our Nige.
Nigel Mansell is the latest to wade into the Lotus debate, insisting he is "delighted" to see the name "return to Formula One" by partnering with the Renault team.
Briton Mansell drove iconic Lotus F1 cars in the 80s before moving on to Ferrari and finally winning the title in a Williams in 1992.
"It is particularly pleasing for me to see the union of Lotus and Renault again and the return of the iconic Black and Gold colours as driven by the late greats Ayrton Senna and Elio de Angelis, Johnny Dumfries and of course, myself in the 80s," he said.
Mansell's comments coincide with the publication of the abandoned black and gold livery that would have adorned the 'Team Lotus' cars next year amid the naming dispute with the separate Tony Fernandes camp.
The comments also coincide with the issuing of a statement by the family of Lotus' late founder Colin Chapman, whose famous black cap was proudly displayed on the pitwall by Fernandes' team in 2010.
But Chapman's son Clive said the family thinks the "Team Lotus name should not be used in Formula One".
"Indeed, assurances to this effect were received (last year)," he added.
Chapman said the family supported the Fernandes team when the Lotus Racing name was used with the consent of Group Lotus.
"However, then its license to use the Lotus name was terminated and things changed," he confirmed, adding that his family now backs Group Lotus as "the ongoing Lotus entity created by Colin and Hazel Chapman".
Mansell also recalled Colin Chapman in his statement posted on Group Lotus' official website.
"I am extremely grateful to Lotus and especially to Colin Chapman, who was so inspirational and almost like a second father to me and have been watching with great interest the developments that have been taking place recently at Hethel with their ambitious race and road car projects.
"I am really delighted to see that Lotus is back where it belongs competing with the best in the top echelons of motor sport," he added.
Nigel Mansell is the latest to wade into the Lotus debate, insisting he is "delighted" to see the name "return to Formula One" by partnering with the Renault team.
Briton Mansell drove iconic Lotus F1 cars in the 80s before moving on to Ferrari and finally winning the title in a Williams in 1992.
"It is particularly pleasing for me to see the union of Lotus and Renault again and the return of the iconic Black and Gold colours as driven by the late greats Ayrton Senna and Elio de Angelis, Johnny Dumfries and of course, myself in the 80s," he said.
Mansell's comments coincide with the publication of the abandoned black and gold livery that would have adorned the 'Team Lotus' cars next year amid the naming dispute with the separate Tony Fernandes camp.
The comments also coincide with the issuing of a statement by the family of Lotus' late founder Colin Chapman, whose famous black cap was proudly displayed on the pitwall by Fernandes' team in 2010.
But Chapman's son Clive said the family thinks the "Team Lotus name should not be used in Formula One".
"Indeed, assurances to this effect were received (last year)," he added.
Chapman said the family supported the Fernandes team when the Lotus Racing name was used with the consent of Group Lotus.
"However, then its license to use the Lotus name was terminated and things changed," he confirmed, adding that his family now backs Group Lotus as "the ongoing Lotus entity created by Colin and Hazel Chapman".
Mansell also recalled Colin Chapman in his statement posted on Group Lotus' official website.
"I am extremely grateful to Lotus and especially to Colin Chapman, who was so inspirational and almost like a second father to me and have been watching with great interest the developments that have been taking place recently at Hethel with their ambitious race and road car projects.
"I am really delighted to see that Lotus is back where it belongs competing with the best in the top echelons of motor sport," he added.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
A lot of hypocrisy going on as usual, at the end of the day, we have one team that was started from scratch and another team which is simply being re-branded.
I know which I would prefer to be called "Lotus" and it has nothing to do with what Chapman, Fernandes, Bahar, Mansell...or anyone else says or thinks.
Late edit: I'll also add that all I see right now is a team that worked very hard with limited time and resources and out-performed their closest rivals thrown to the way side and corporate people telling us who we should support. Then there's the team at Enstone being dragged into this silly argument, a team who have gone through a lot and on the verge of a potentially great season.
I have no sympathy for Group Lotus, Proton, Bahar, the Chapmans, etc. Buying into success is just so cheap, cheap to do and cheap to the taste. I was happy to see the Lotus name return last year, mostly because it was tied to a team which showed a great deal of spirit. I would be happy to see Fernandes' team named anything really, it doesn't need to be Team Lotus.
I also have nothing against the idea of Group Lotus debuting in F1 as they did last year. I do have a problem with them attempting to tell me how I should consider them a iconic F1 name simply because they have plastered their name on a Renault and their subsequent ditching of a team that really did them proud last year.
I hope both teams at Enstone and Hingham have the great seasons we are expecting. I hope the executives take their argument and their hypocrisy somewhere else. But it wouldn't be F1 without a great argument to keep us going behind the scenes!
I know which I would prefer to be called "Lotus" and it has nothing to do with what Chapman, Fernandes, Bahar, Mansell...or anyone else says or thinks.
Late edit: I'll also add that all I see right now is a team that worked very hard with limited time and resources and out-performed their closest rivals thrown to the way side and corporate people telling us who we should support. Then there's the team at Enstone being dragged into this silly argument, a team who have gone through a lot and on the verge of a potentially great season.
I have no sympathy for Group Lotus, Proton, Bahar, the Chapmans, etc. Buying into success is just so cheap, cheap to do and cheap to the taste. I was happy to see the Lotus name return last year, mostly because it was tied to a team which showed a great deal of spirit. I would be happy to see Fernandes' team named anything really, it doesn't need to be Team Lotus.
I also have nothing against the idea of Group Lotus debuting in F1 as they did last year. I do have a problem with them attempting to tell me how I should consider them a iconic F1 name simply because they have plastered their name on a Renault and their subsequent ditching of a team that really did them proud last year.
I hope both teams at Enstone and Hingham have the great seasons we are expecting. I hope the executives take their argument and their hypocrisy somewhere else. But it wouldn't be F1 without a great argument to keep us going behind the scenes!
Last edited:
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
My feelings also.
----
Lotus' buy-in to Renault will have no bearing on their performance and they should not dare take any credit for Renault's achievements next year.
----
Lotus' buy-in to Renault will have no bearing on their performance and they should not dare take any credit for Renault's achievements next year.
- 24,646
- Anoka, MN
I wouldn't say they can't take any credit if they happen to anything notable in 2011. They are putting a decent chunk of cash into the Renault team which will aid in developing the car over the season. Of course they shouldn't be rushing onto the podium(if they happen to wind up there), but they will no doubt have played a role in getting the team there.
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
Given the vital information presented recently in this thread that Fernandes basically agreed not to target using the Team Lotus name at any stage when Lotus Racing was formed, I think it would be for the best now if Fernandes sold the Team Lotus name to Proton for a premium (and ended the court battles, and in return finishing up with an extra sum of money for the team as a payout from Proton, whether received through a higher price for the name, or as a settlement, whichever is more tax-convenient of course), and named his team something else.
Last edited:
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,609
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Where is the proof of that agreement?
- 377
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/mobile/motorsport/formula_one/9296324.stm
If true, that's a lot of money to lose just for changing your name.
If true, that's a lot of money to lose just for changing your name.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The idea is to stop people from buying a team at a minimum price, getting the payout and then seling the team on.
- 377
Makes sense. I don't see why anyone would expect them to change their name with that amount of money on the line.
IMO it's a bit unfair that Lotus is trying to take the name away from Fernandes' group with the work they put in this year. I know life isn't fair but I still think that sucks though
.
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
I found an interesting read about Sir Stirling Moss's experience with the Team Lotus back in the days. Written by himself...
- 1,748
Just a quick one, I spent a while wondering why Autosport seemed to be so supportive behind Group Lotus.
Guess which team is launching their car at Autosport International in January?
Guess which team is launching their car at Autosport International in January?
- 1,748
And this is for you half hour before its launched 
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
There's a whole foltilla of sponsors that are bound to come in. Vitaly Petrov is getting backing from Moscow through Russian Technologies and Novatek, and all their old sponsors - Lada, Vyborg Shipyards, Flagman Vodka, HP and Bank SNORAS - may return in some capacityI wish they did more with the engine cover, it's too empty.
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
We saw this R30 in 2011 colours ages ago btw.
Anyways, the lines around the middle are too thick, looks like someone used a permanent marker a few sizes too big.
The Fernandes one was better (livery design competition winner)
Hopefully it will look better on the R31's body, will probably grow on me.
Anyways, the lines around the middle are too thick, looks like someone used a permanent marker a few sizes too big.
The Fernandes one was better (livery design competition winner)
Hopefully it will look better on the R31's body, will probably grow on me.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
We'll save the discussion of the livery for a thread on the Renault R31. In the meantime, this thread is for Lotus vs. Lotus. And on that subject, Martin Brundle has weighed in as the voice of reason, pleading for someone to grow some common sense.
- 708
- GTP_MaxAttack
'Ludes, that link takes me to an article about the Rome gp…
- 708
- GTP_MaxAttack
Team Lotus has said that they need to score more points in 2011 and Mike Gascoyne has said that the difference between the two Lotus teams were that they "were a constructor, not just a sponsor"
Danny Bahar has said that he hopes the whole argument can be resolved before it reaches the courts, but according to Team Lotus CEO Riad Asmat:
"We haven't heard anything from them - we haven't talked to them recently."
He also said that it was "unfortunate" that Team Lotus and Group Lotus had not been able to find a way to work together.
It would seem that Team Lotus are pressing on with their name as is for now.
Danny Bahar has said that he hopes the whole argument can be resolved before it reaches the courts, but according to Team Lotus CEO Riad Asmat:
"We haven't heard anything from them - we haven't talked to them recently."
He also said that it was "unfortunate" that Team Lotus and Group Lotus had not been able to find a way to work together.
It would seem that Team Lotus are pressing on with their name as is for now.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Lotus vs. Lotus will be heard much sooner than anyone anticipated, with a summary hearing to be held on the 24th. The short version of a summary hearing is that if you can persuade a judge that a case is so one-sided that the usual guff of a trail would only be a waste of the court's time, you can have the case fast-tracked to a summary hearing, in which the lawyers go a-lawyering. It doesn't need witnesses or testimony; it's just the arguments. Group Lotus, it seems, are the ones to have instigated this, so it's immediately apparent that they have a strong case and the British court agrees with them. On the other hand, Team Lotus are steadfastly convinced that the case will go to court in autumn at the earliest, and that the season will start with two teams named Lotus, which is at odds with the summary hearing. It's also become apparent that Tony Fernandes was conspiring to use Formula 1 to gain control of Lotus Cars.
- 401
- Forlì
- rez-vibes
Interesting article.
- 5,603
- England, Warwickshire
- GTP_Sigma
That's the wrong link, do you have the correct one still by any chance?
- 3,165
- yeti_c
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Nope, sorry.
This article from James Allen:
Maybe "conspired" is the wrong word to use, but it's fairly clear that Fernandes planned to gain control of Lotus Cars after a few years. Given that Riad Asmat was a part of Lotus Cars before joining Lotus Racing, it certainly feels like a conspiracy to me.
- 4,496
- Vancouver, BC
"I remember that he didn't bother to come to see me in hospital after I broke my back and my legs when the wheels came off my Lotus at Spa Francochamps in 1960, and I can only assume that was because he was pretty embarrassed. I returned to racing two months later and won the US Grand Prix, and as it was my birthday the team made me a cake in the shape of a car. The first thing I did was cut the wheel off and said, "Give that to Colin Chapman". He didn't think it was funny at all ... I thought it was quite amusing myself."
ROFL!
Stirling is still such a bad-ass, that was a really great read! 👍
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
I don't see how Lotus Cars are going to just walk away from this, the only just outcome is them paying Fernandes' team a large sum of money to cover the loss of the constructor income, and some more for hardship caused and a few other etc reasons.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding exactly what is going on in terms of what Lotus Cars are claiming. They're not challenging Fernandes' rights to the Team Lotus name. They claim that by using the Team Lotus name after they withdrew the rights to the use Lotus Cars name - which is technically how Lotus Racing were competing in 2010 - Team Lotus are trading on their name. It's like if I started a team tomorrow called MacLaren. MacLaren is not a name registered by McLaren, but they are so similar that they can interfere with one another.
I think that's what they're arguing.
I think that's what they're arguing.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
I don't see how thats clear at all? How is having a former employee of Proton and a license agreement proof of attempting take over? This is so rediculously vague.
"Clear", "conspired", "conspiracy" are not the words that come into my mind.
I like how James Allen can just write an unsourced, unexplained paragraph into an article and people lap it up. He might think there is/was some "conspiracy", but there is no proof as such.
- 708
- GTP_MaxAttack
Didn't they withdraw the naming rights because Fernandes developed an energy drink caller LR8?
Where the LR was meant to mean Lotus Racing and this was in breach of the original agreement as they were only allowed to use the name in conjunction with their racing ventures & nothing else.
Where the LR was meant to mean Lotus Racing and this was in breach of the original agreement as they were only allowed to use the name in conjunction with their racing ventures & nothing else.
Similar threads
