GT League is Everything Good (and Bad) About Classic Gran Turismo

[Openheaders]

This is just my personal opinion about gt league. 1. Gt5 and Gt6 had more races combined in offline mode. Gt league was just a rushed update to satisfy those who wanted a offline mode. I like gt league,but there just isnt enough races to really keep me interested. Gt league needs more races than what is there already. I get that gt sport is mainly online and i respect that as a gamer.
Other than that,i really like gt sport.

 

[iamjajo]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

GT League is Everything Good (and Bad) About Classic Gran Turismo

This article was published by Kyle Patrick (@SlipZtrEm) on January 15th, 2018 in the Gran Turismo Sport category.

Good article summing up the intro of GT League. When I get annoyed at the AI driven cars I imagine they are simply modeled from real users. That said, I like GT Sport; a lot.

 

[EddyHawk]

If the AI is bad, then the game becomes boring and the AI of GT Sport is terrible, you do not have that feeling of being in a race, there are not battles to overtake or defend, you are just racing alone with traffic, this was fun in 90's but for god sake we are in 2018.

 

[Epic B]

I like what GT League currently has to offer. I just wish it had more to offer. Hopefully they add more events down the line. And more tracks. That's my general opinion of GT Sport's offline content. What offline content there is is good, but I wish there was more.

 

[jagenigma]

And now we wait for the next update. Still no word on it at all. By now we would have heard something. Maybe later on in the week.

Anyways, GT League definitely brought back the nostalgic factor for me, mostly because of the GT2 arcade theme that made me instantly smile! It's a step in the right direction. GT sport was meant to be a serious GT, but it can't forget where it came from.

 

[baldgye]

"Suddenly the now-second-place car gets a dramatic surge in power, like it’s had a canister of NOS hidden under the passenger seat..."

I haven't tried the league races yet, but I noticed this watching replays in the arcade races. After you get the lead, the AI cars become faster even though they're lines and speeds don't change. They can still go through a corner up to 30mph slower than you, but they'll lose absolutely no ground doing it.

Yeah, what I like the most is you’ll gain the lead on the second lap, set the fastest time, then the next lap the guy in second will beat it by like 5-6 seconds setting world record sort of pace...

 

[snowgt]

I’m having the feeling that PD was trying (again) to achieve too many things at the same time.

The AI actually can be pretty fast and give you a challenge, but what they tried to do is make it fit with literally EVERY level of driver. When someone is slow, the AI doesn’t speed up and makes lots of mistakes, when you’re close to the lead they switch to a more competitive mode.

I think it would have been a better approach to add a difficulty setting like for the custom races, with more credits for higher AI difficulty.

Also, they really should fix the bugs in the vehicle restrictions. The 86 GRMN is allowed in the Boxer Cup, but for no apparent reason not in FR or Clubman? The Huracan cannot be selected for the midengined races, but it’s raced by the AI. First I thought it’s because it’s 4WD, but you actually can pick the Veyron or the Veneno, so it’s apparently random.

 

[Factor41]

I think it would have been a better approach to add a difficulty setting like for the custom races, with more credits for higher AI difficulty.

They sort of do that. Remember that the earlier races, with the really easy AI are labelled as Beginner series - they're not just shorter, they're supposed to be easier. If you power past them, the Beginner AI seems to think they can keep up with you, and immediately drive way beyond their ability, with predictably chaotic consequences!

The fact that underpowered cars have the ability to perform ridiculous catchups on the straights is the bit they really need to look at - it seems to affect some events way more than others where you can pull away to form a decent lead.

 

[zeptrans]

And Good : classic Gran Turismo 2 music menu, nostalgy... (not important, but...)

 

[snowgt]

They sort of do that. Remember that the earlier races, with the really easy AI are labelled as Beginner series - they're not just shorter, they're supposed to be easier. If you power past them, the Beginner AI seems to think they can keep up with you, and immediately drive way beyond their ability, with predictably chaotic consequences!

The fact that underpowered cars have the ability to perform ridiculous catchups on the straights is the bit they really need to look at - it seems to affect some events way more than others where you can pull away to form a decent lead.

I must admit I’ve been looking for evidence that boost is maybe enabled in these races, but every time someone is catching up to me, they actually turned out to be in a much quicker car. So I’m not convinced that this isn’t simply because the AI turns serious once you passed them.

 

[TheGeologist]

I think the addition of GT League is confusing. Wasn't the marketing of this game to "burn it down and start fresh"? The addition of this GT mode from old games with GT2 music gives the game identity issues.

I bought this game because they marketed it as totally different. I do not want it to return to the Grand Turismos of old. I like this game. (Just needs more content)

 

[bokimoto]

It's useless to me.

My interest, and purpose in GTS is multi-player racing. I need the human minds to race against to stay interested.
The availability of quality online multi-player racing keeps increasing. I don't have enough hours in the week to even keep up with that, so there is no time available for canned opponents. Fortunately, AI doesn't get lonely.

 

[baldgye]

I must admit I’ve been looking for evidence that boost is maybe enabled in these races, but every time someone is catching up to me, they actually turned out to be in a much quicker car. So I’m not convinced that this isn’t simply because the AI turns serious once you passed them.

If you really need 'evidence' do a league race, catch the leader and sit behind him for a lap, then pass him. Watch him then set the fastest lap of the race and increase his pace by some 10 odd seconds in some cases, it's ridiculous.

 

[Mr616]

If the AI is bad, then the game becomes boring and the AI of GT Sport is terrible, you do not have that feeling of being in a race, there are not battles to overtake or defend, you are just racing alone with traffic, this was fun in 90's but for god sake we are in 2018.

I know a place where you can get what you're looking for. Sport mode.

 

[zaxs]

Still didn't made a single race in GT League.

I love the nostalgic music and menus, BUT, there is no Leaderboards and that's the only reason why I'm not playing it.

I want to compete with people from my FL and wider.
It's some kind of "semi" (or passive) multiplayer experience, but no stress bcs of dirty drivers.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I must admit I’ve been looking for evidence that boost is maybe enabled in these races, but every time someone is catching up to me, they actually turned out to be in a much quicker car. So I’m not convinced that this isn’t simply because the AI turns serious once you passed them.

It's called rubber banding. AI "turning serious" once you passed them is the definition of rubber banding.

 

[snowgt]

If you really need 'evidence' do a league race, catch the leader and sit behind him for a lap, then pass him. Watch him then set the fastest lap of the race and increase his pace by some 10 odd seconds in some cases, it's ridiculous.

If he’s in the same car, that would be evidence. Just because he’s going slow before and fast after wouldn’t be, if he’s in a faster car than I am.

I’m usually in a much lower class car than the leader, so I would expect the AI to be able to compete. Eg I did Boxer Cup races with the 86 GRMN tuned in N200. Got into the lead and was able to increase it easily against Subaru competitors. Suddenly my lead begins to shrink. I first thought that impossible, but it turned out there was 1 Porsche that started at the back and once it was in 2nd, it naturally reduced my lead.

What I’m saying is, I have not witnessed any AI car having unnatural speed down the straight. It’s hard to judge, if they get some magic grip gain once you’ve passed them. But I also have not noticed anything when I was racing close to them. It doesn’t feel like the boost in GT6 was though.

It's called rubber banding. AI "turning serious" once you passed them is the definition of rubber banding.

Yeah, I know what rubber banding aka “boost” is. I don’t think this is what we see here. Have you done 1 race where the AI is able to match your speed in the same car?

 

[baldgye]

If he’s in the same car, that would be evidence. Just because he’s going slow before and fast after wouldn’t be, if he’s in a faster car than I am.

If the guy, in first place, started in first place and was in a faster car, you wouldn't be able to catch him. But you (the player) can not only catch him, you can do so within a lap or so, only after you've passed them for the lead there pace suddenly shoots up.

I've had this happen a fair bit through the course of finishing all the events in League mode.

Yeah, I know what rubber banding aka “boost” is. I don’t think this is what we see here. Have you done 1 race where the AI is able to match your speed in the same car?

Not only match, but surpass to set world beating times. I'm around about 2-3 seconds off the top10 times for any given track, sometimes around 4 seconds. Nothing crazy but not horrible either.
I can lap around a track, vs the AI in League mode, set a decent time on a lap where I have the lead for the whole race, and then the AI will smash it, not by a few tenths but by 3-4 seconds. I've had this happen in 1 make series too. The boost is comically over powered and even then, the AI is so inept they still pose little challenge.

Want a good example, Dragon Trail reverse. I did a few races there, last lap on the little straight before the (normally first) chicane the AI behind can make over a second just on the straight, regardless of car or exit of the corner leading to it. They have so much speed in fact that they can't brake in time and smash head first into the barriers. Though even after having to recover, still finish within a second or so at the line

 

[snowgt]

If the guy, in first place, started in first place and was in a faster car, you wouldn't be able to catch him. But you (the player) can not only catch him, you can do so within a lap or so, only after you've passed them for the lead there pace suddenly shoots up.

I've had this happen a fair bit through the course of finishing all the events in League mode.



Not only match, but surpass to set world beating times. I'm around about 2-3 seconds off the top10 times for any given track, sometimes around 4 seconds. Nothing crazy but not horrible either.
I can lap around a track, vs the AI in League mode, set a decent time on a lap where I have the lead for the whole race, and then the AI will smash it, not by a few tenths but by 3-4 seconds. I've had this happen in 1 make series too. The boost is comically over powered and even then, the AI is so inept they still pose little challenge.

Want a good example, Dragon Trail reverse. I did a few races there, last lap on the little straight before the (normally first) chicane the AI behind can make over a second just on the straight, regardless of car or exit of the corner leading to it. They have so much speed in fact that they can't brake in time and smash head first into the barriers. Though even after having to recover, still finish within a second or so at the line

Ok, that’s evidence.

 

[Factor41]

It's useless to me.

My interest, and purpose in GTS is multi-player racing. I need the human minds to race against to stay interested.
The availability of quality online multi-player racing keeps increasing. I don't have enough hours in the week to even keep up with that, so there is no time available for canned opponents. Fortunately, AI doesn't get lonely.

I sometimes don't want to race online, and in those moments, I race in GT League. Without any offline content, I'd probably move on to something else entirely and then I'd be one less person for you to race against when I might currently decide to have a race or two online. So it's not entirely useless to you.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I know a place where you can get what you're looking for. Sport mode.

Is it possible to select any track and car combo on sport mode? And at any time of the day? Can I for instance pick the Alfa 4C at the ring at any time of day and be racing against a full grid within 1 or 2 minutes? If the answer is no, then sport mode or online is not a place some people can get what they're looking for.

 

[CliveH]

After experiencing the highs and lows of online racing then racing against AI has lost its appeal for me. There is no better feeling then beating human appointments fairly.

 

[JacksHerer]

losing an AI race felt like lost time, losing to humans is just not winning, there's always next race.

 

[Mr616]

Is it possible to select any track and car combo on sport mode? And at any time of the day? Can I for instance pick the Alfa 4C at the ring at any time of day and be racing against a full grid within 1 or 2 minutes? If the answer is no, then sport mode or online is not a place some people can get what they're looking for.

Lobbies then, or custom races. Racing AI in any game is repetitive and boring imo (in an age where online PvP is now an option), and GT's AI has never been the greatest.

Did you realise GTS was geared towards online more than single player? If not, why not?

Edit: You do realise I was replying to someone who said AI was uncompetitive right?

 

[MMX]

The Porsche enduro reminds me why I've never cared for Porsche/Ruf. They drive like 🤬 !

Rear tires were almost toast by lap 6, by lap 10 I said to hell with it. I won't be completing that race.

 

[CeeJay]

It's too bare bones and it was definitely rushed but I'm glad PD added it. The past couple of days I've been getting so frustrated waiting 10+ minutes between sports mode races I just can't take it anymore. I've been running races more in GT League and the custom race setup because it lets me get into the game quicker and at my own pace. Sitting staring at the tv for 10-15 minutes at a time is getting way too old at this point.

 

[debunix]

A GT League with this little amount of tracks is a waste of time - as the game in complete is.

There won't be GTS in my house until there are more tracks.

If PD doesn't get this until end of march, I'll buy Project Cars and move on after 20 years since GT1.
Sad but true.

 

[Joey D]

GT League actually brought me back to the game. Shortly after buying GT Sport, I gave up on it because I was bored. I hated the online races and the missions were just a glorified license test. I knew going in this could be the case, but figured I had to at least give GT a chance. At the worst I'd be out $60 and at best I'd love it.

When they implemented the GT League, I found myself drawn back into the game and rather enjoying it. I don't care how lame the races are, it feels more like the GT games I grew up with so I'm good with that. I do hope they continue to expand it in future updates, even if it's just adding more championships/cups that are essentially the same thing just with different cars.

I do think prize cars are important though, as are proper championships. But I'm guessing those will come with time. I'd even be OK if you won paint chips, wheels, decals, or racing gear with the championships instead of cars. Not as exciting, but it'd be something.

I also think for the GT League to be even better, PD needs to include more low end cars. Race cars are great and all, but I feel like that's not really the spirit of GT games. To me, it's more about taking a slow car and building it up to be a competitive car or just keeping it slow and racing other slow cars.

Oh and for the love of all that's holy, bring back oil changes and car washes.

 

[2clicks]

The jackrabbit issue could easily be solved by just implementing an optional qualifying session before every race. I mean it was there in GT1, and in GT3, which GT League is trying to replicate, so why leave out that fundamental factor?

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

If the AI is bad, then the game becomes boring and the AI of GT Sport is terrible, you do not have that feeling of being in a race, there are not battles to overtake or defend, you are just racing alone with traffic, this was fun in 90's but for god sake we are in 2018.

You know I wonder why the AI in Gran Turisno is such an issue every release.

Is it just less possible to “train” AI well when there are so many variables such as car specs in GT?

Compared to the AI in F1 2017, for instance. If Gran Turisno has he race weekend experience and AI challenge and fun of the recent F1 games, my opinion on GT single player would be less harsh.