GT Series track list is getting STALE

They added to career mode in Sport with every update and they could do so in 7 as well. Career mode is long. It's not like anyone is going to beat it over a weekend. For me I liked that they added more over time as it kept the game feeling alive.
Career mode isn't going to take more than a week or two at most. Even if you take a month, you're going to get one new track at the end of it at best. Once you've done it you've done it. A career is all about that progression through everything on offer, working your way up.

Firing the game back up three months later to do three events in a Miata or whatever because they added a new track is just not the same, and doesn't suddenly make the original playthrough any less stale feeling.

Adding stuff afterwards is obviously a positive, good thing. But they still need to ensure the initial experience is providing players with enough new and improved content.
 
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I completed GT6's career mode in less than 2 days. I remember being really-disappointed that it was so short.

Went nuts online after that 'though and didn't care... 'til they took down the servers. :banghead:
 
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He trains at all those tracks in simulations constantly. Same with every f1 driver.
Hamilton famously doesn't like simulator work, and has claimed to do no more than a handful of laps in the Mercedes simulator each year. He did, apparently, spend more time in one ahead of Jeddah this year, but claims it's usually only ~20 laps across an entire season.

 
I didn’t say or imply tracks take the same amount of time and resources to make as cars do. I know they don’t. But that doesn’t take anything away from the fact that many people, like me, would prefer PD to bring more tracks (new and old) to GT7. Again, we are getting zero (0) new tracks for GT7. Nothing, at least from what we’ve seen so far in official documentation and trailers. All we are getting are 2 old tracks with a makeover and the return of HSR and Daytona. That’s very poor imo.

IRacing for example has around 100 tracks and over 350 configurations. But “only” has around 100 cars too. The difference between the cost of a track and a car is 0 to 25%. ACC has 12 circuits and is focused on GT3 with around 30 cars.

GT7 comes out with nothing new to offer in terms of tracks except 2 redesign classics, which are nice, but very disappointing considering the AAA status of PD.

And let’s not even mention the 20million cars that a lot of people never touched or drove even though they would love to. I’m one of those. If I knew I wouldn’t be able to own those cars, I’d prefer to have a new track instead.

Sure they could add tracks and not a lot of people would like some of them, but I’m pretty sure there’s dozens of cars in every game you don’t like or drive for different reasons. I avoid FF and AWD cars more than anything but even though I don’t particularly like Alsace, I’ve had some great moments in there. One of them was actually with the Audi TT, a car I don’t like, with TRL_Lightning, just the two of us on a lobby and me trying to not look too slow behind him.
Sure, it's poor. No one said otherwise. And so was the car selection in GTS, only after updates it got more interesting for the casual audience. Though, the 4 returning tracks, are still "new", as the resources needed to model them, are similar to what they'd need for any other track. So it was either those 4 tracks, or model 3/4 entirely new to the series. They weren't simply ported from GT6. Some people, who don't care much about graphics, would be fine with PD just porting over every track from GT6, and every premium car, which would add a ton of content to the game, but would hurt the general quality.

If they end up finally bringing Pikes Peak to GT, we already know that a course that big, took resources equivalent to 2 or 3 normal tracks.

The thing is, with one update, they could add one track, that a big chunk of the player base won't enjoy. Meanwhile, they could add an update with 5 to 10 cars (similar resources spent), and the likelyhood of someone not liking any of them is a lot smaller (unless it's a themed pack). I remember GTS updates, and even though not every car added was great, there was atleast 1 or 2 per update that I enjoyed.

The real question I would ask people, is if PD could only add 2 more tracks in the game until March (hypothetical question), which ones would they be? I would expect very different answers.

A cheap way to enliven the existing tracks would be to make variants. Imagine if every returned track came with at least one new layout, using part of the existing track and adding a new section. Suddenly everyone is excited to try these "new" tracks, and it's cost Polyphony a fraction of the modelling time as creating an entirely new track from scratch.
Sure, but unless the style of the track changes a lot with an alternative layout, many tracks won't be much different in style, thus remaining the problem with tracks being very similar/stale. Tracks in GTS are too wide for slower cars. Alsace would have been great if the road was tighter, like in real life.

If I recall from GT5 the estimated values were 6 man months for an average car, 3 man years for an average track. 6:1 feels about right, and while graphics have improved so have tools so I'd be surprised if that has changed substantially.

There's definitely a balance to be struck, but I think you'll find that most players will get bored of not enough tracks before they'll get bored of not enough cars. That's why open world games have become popular, because there's an enormous amount of "tracks" that can be made even with a relatively limited number of roads available.
Yeah, pretty much what I assumed it was, give or take.

It depends on the player. Sim racers are fine with driving the same car for the entire life span of the game. Dragsters and drifters for example, are happy to use different cars on the same track for most of the life span of the game. People usually don't get bored as easily from cars, because they simply are more, they have customization, multiple purposes/classes. On a 1 to 1 car/track ratio, people would get bored from cars first though, specially if the numbers are fairly low. I personally got bored with GTS until they added updates with more cars.
 
Career mode isn't going to take more than a week or two at most.
If they pick up GT League where it left off (no reason to think they won't carry over all the events if all the cars and tracks are present), I once calculated that to be about 63 hours (In the context of how long it would take to win 28,000,000 Cr. in GTS).
 
Hamilton famously doesn't like simulator work, and has claimed to do no more than a handful of laps in the Mercedes simulator each year. He did, apparently, spend more time in one ahead of Jeddah this year, but claims it's usually only ~20 laps across an entire season.


Okay, but normal f1 drivers do. Especially the younger ones. And none of them get sick of driving a well designed track ever. That's why they love motorsports and why we do. It's what separates the casuals from the rest. Not skill but passion for perfecting a line, corner and track over and over and over.
 
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Sonoma Raceway was in GT4, though it was called Infineon back then. I'm fond of Sonoma but that's probably because its the closest circuit to me IRL. :lol: I never really loved the layout and it kind of lacks character IMO. I wish they had put the track on the south side of the mountain/hill its built into, rather than the north. That way you would actually get views of San Francisco Bay, Marin county, and off in the distance, the San Francisco and Oakland skylines. As it is now, it feels like it could be anywhere...kind of a missed opportunity IMO.
I didn't know that Sonoma was near SF despite liking that circuit. I've always thought it were in Colorado or something. It isn't my favorite mainly because it is too narrow and there's no long straight. But there's elevation and that goes a long way.
 
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Ever since those IoM rumours started years ago I could never fathom why people wanted it in Gran Turismo. It's a bike TT course that as you say, is incredibly narrow for the most part. To waste a huge amount of development time, given all the intricate details required to be modelled in the villages it'd be a collosal waste of resources for a car racing game, would be insane. The alternative could be 3, maybe 4 proper car racing circuits. Maybe even more. Vs 1 track only useful for TT.

I know the rumours said that PD were seen there but I still believe it was quite simply someone mistaken, and it was the devs from the TT bike game.
And yet ... there's that Subaru that set the IoM record, so it's definitely a thing, and not exclusively for bikes. I would love to do TT's on such a track (with just about any car).

And we also know that Pikes Peak was apparently in the works at some point. Why that fell apart, nobody seems to know.

Both would do wonders to expand GT7's appeal, even though they are not suitable for online racing.
 
And since most people play offline, it’d be a good inclusion to just drive/test all cars.

This is how I liken Isle of Mann. I’d love to take a cool car and drive around like this… not having to drive on the Nord.
 
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Sounds like there are a few new tracks coming already, and a few returning from earlier games? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having as many tracks as possible, but all the best global circuits are already in the game (bar a few of the American circuits).

As long as we have the Nordschleife, Bathurst, Spa and Suzuka, I'm happy. Everything else is a bonus. That said, I wouldn't be unhappy if they replaced every rally circuit with a new real life road circuit...

Most of the original tracks in GT Sport are actual garbage and I avoided them often. The selection of world circuits is fine but there simply isn't enough of them to satisfy me.
+1 re: original circuits. I don't know what it is, but I can't stand any of them
 
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No new tracks as of yet.
Bugger. Oh well at least we have a couple of the better original circuits returning. Apricot Hill in particular was always good to drive, and I think I saw that the Daytona road course is returning in the new configuration?
 
And yet ... there's that Subaru that set the IoM record, so it's definitely a thing, and not exclusively for bikes. I would love to do TT's on such a track (with just about any car).

And we also know that Pikes Peak was apparently in the works at some point. Why that fell apart, nobody seems to know.

Both would do wonders to expand GT7's appeal, even though they are not suitable for online racing.
Yes cars have very occasionally driven it but it's still primarily a TT bike circuit.

If the track was only 5-10 miles or something I'd say sure, why not. Add a bit of variety. But it's not, we're talking about a huge 38 mile circuit which passes through villages and has countless other details throughout. For PD to model it to their level of detail would take years and for what? A TT circuit no good for racing that the majority of players would never have the patience to complete one clean lap.

It'd be a huge mismanagement of resources when the game still lacks a large number of proper car racing circuits. Adding something like IOM is what you do when you've done everything else, when you've got 75 other locations and it's just a special cherry on top. Not now.

Pikes Peak is completely different, it's considerably shorter and it IS famous for cars. It'd take a heck of a lot less time to model.
 
Most of the original tracks in GT Sport are actual garbage and I avoided them often. The selection of world circuits is fine but there simply isn't enough of them to satisfy me.

I would prefer if they went back to all original circuits. The ones from Sport especially were amazing. World Circuits are meh.
 
A TT circuit no good for racing that the majority of players would never have the patience to complete one clean lap.
+1

Don't think I've completed a clean lap at racing speed on IoM TT Ride on the Edge, let alone achieving my goal of an 18min 10sec lap at 200km/h.

I'm sure if PD were to model it, most of it would be wall-rideable though!
 
Something being iconic doesn't make it the best. So many tracks from touring car and other niche series deserve a shot

Zolder
Oulton Park
Snetterton
Mid Ohio
BIR 3.1 mile road course
Original Hockenheim
Surfers paradise
Imola
COTA

It's an untold number. Spa is one of the greatest tracks in history, but I'm tired of racing on it. Spa and Monza are worn out by now.
 
Regardless of what you think of GTS' track list, I'm pretty sure track DLC was confirmed for GT7. Not to mention the returning courses like Daytona, Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, and potentially Apricot Hill. I think we could consider both new real-world circuits, but also new original designs, too, like we see with St. Croix. I, for one, would love to see tracks that no longer exist, like the potential return of the 1980's versions of Monza and Brands Hatch, but I'd also especially like to see the original version of Fuji Speedway.

I'd also wouldn't mind Sonoma, but on the other hand, that'd mean three real-world circuits in California, adding to Laguna Seca and Willow Springs, let alone fictional circuits set there, like Blue Moon Bay or Trial Mountain. Seems like that'd be a bit much, no? I wanna see real-world circuits from other parts of the world - and perhaps other eras, as well. Philip Island or Kyalami would be perfect in this regard. Here's hoping we'll get Monaco back this time, too.
 
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When it comes to Gran Turismo’s track selection, PD like an existing circuit to have flow, elevation, history and significance. PD also don’t usually select the ‘obvious’ choice, so based on that here are some tracks that I think feel very ‘Gran Turismo’ and could very easily fit in the game:
  • Algarve
  • Barber Motorsports Park
  • Canadian Tire Motorsport Park
  • Donington Park
  • Hungaroring
  • Imola
  • Lime Rock Park
  • Mont-Tremblant
  • Oulton Park
  • Lago Potrero de los Funes
  • Road Atlanta
  • Salzburgring Circuit
  • Sportsland Sugo
  • Symmons Plains
  • Virginia International Raceway
 
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If I recall from GT5 the estimated values were 6 man months for an average car, 3 man years for an average track. 6:1 feels about right, and while graphics have improved so have tools so I'd be surprised if that has changed substantially.
I remember that as up to two years for a track.
 
In my opinion, the track list in GT Sport (and what we know of 7) is very stale. Every track feels the same after awhile. Spa and Suzuka are amazing circuits, but both are high speed tracks that favour powerful cars. They're wide, smooth, and lend themselves well to high downforce racecars. They're also in the middle of nowhere if you look around in photo mode.

Then we get the fictional tracks like St. Croix and Kyoto. Both are amazing circuits, but both are high speed tracks that favour powerful cars. They're wide, smooth, and lend themselves well to high downforce racecars. They're also in the middle of nowhere if you look around in photo mode.

Then we have the returning classic tracks revealed for GT7: Trail Mountain and Deep Forest. These revamped tracks are wide, smooth, and lend themselves well to high downforce racecars. They're also in the middle of nowhere.

What's the point of having so many tracks if they all look boring, feel the same, and serve the same purpose?

In GT Sport, I can sort of understand why the track list is so focused, because GTS is an e-sports focused title. The problem is that it's also a game that has added in a 14HP Fiat 500 and a Diesel Demio post launch, with nowhere to run them on aside from Tsukuba and Horse Thief Mile, which makes appreciating them and knowing what these cars are all about a very difficult task. The closest to a Touge we get in the game is one section of Bathurst, and it's only there that an FC RX-7 or AE86 feel alive.

That's why Bathurst is by far my favourite track in the game, simply because it's so different. There's no runoff. One mistake and your race is over. Standing starts are an inhumane social experiment. One can only hope that they don't get punted on pit entry. Passing is possible but difficult. It's narrow. It can be raced at night. It SCARES me.

Other tracks feel like a 3D mesh. Bathurst feels like a PLACE. It has fantastic views ranging from parks, hotels, and even private houses!

If GT7 is to recapture the magic of GT games of old, then I opine that it is imperative that PD expand on not the number of tracks, but the VARIETY of tracks. Many have bemoaned the butchering of Trail Mountain and Deep Forest, claiming that they've lost their original appeal to lend themselves to clean, safe racing, and I largely agree. The point that PD just doesn't seem to get is that a track, or a stretch of road, needn't be ideal for sanctioned racing to be fun or memorable. Hell, the Nordschleife is infamous for being rubbish to race on, yet it's one of the most influential tracks in the world.

I want more tracks similar to Grindelwald, Seattle, Motor Sports Land, Sugo, Sendai Hi Land, SSR11, Citta di Aria, to be in GT7. I want more touges, mountain passes. Street circuits. Gymkhanas. Hell, give us the infield layout of SSRX already! We already have enough "clean", "proper", and safe circuits to host FIA races, let us have some variety and fun!
 
I've loaded up Tourist Trophy on my PS2 this evening and marvelled that something like Citta Di Aria could easily come back in a single car, time trial mode of competition, along with other similar, narrow tracks as a way of adding another type of driving to the game. Tight, technical tracks quite unlike the wide open circuits we seem to have exclusively now.
 
VXR
I've loaded up Tourist Trophy on my PS2 this evening and marvelled that something like Citta Di Aria could easily come back in a single car, time trial mode of competition, along with other similar, narrow tracks as a way of adding another type of driving to the game. Tight, technical tracks quite unlike the wide open circuits we seem to have exclusively now.
I share a love of layouts like that as well, and in that regard, GT4 was kind of a one-off in the series, in that it included tracks that if we are honest were not good for racing at all. They did however work amazingly for hot lapping and time trial, and to a degree, the only place you find similar stuff now (outside of rally titles) is in the mod content for AC.
 
I want more tracks similar to Grindelwald, Seattle, Motor Sports Land, Sugo, Sendai Hi Land, SSR11, Citta di Aria, to be in GT7. I want more touges, mountain passes. Street circuits. Gymkhanas. Hell, give us the infield layout of SSRX already! We already have enough "clean", "proper", and safe circuits to host FIA races, let us have some variety and fun!
Could not say it better. GT4 had the best balanced Track Selection. I just think of the Selection Menu with the course type. I miss also beside the city tracks the Snow Tracks and Grand Canyon. In the scape mode there are a ton of good track inspirations.
 
Agree with OP, feel like this happening across many genres, look at Battlefield games releasing with a handful of maps.

Feel like too much time is spent on ensuring tracks are 'perfect', I understand it when they're copying real life tracks but I see no reason why GT7 couldn't have 10 new original tracks? Or even some more classics from GT3, GT4. I don't care if they reuse assests from track to track either, just more tracks please.

The singleplayer career better be damn good given how little new content seems to be in GT7. Concerning that they've barely mentioned online which is surely the most played mode and it is in clear need of a refresh. Makes me wonder what they've spent all their time doing..

What we needed from GT7:
  • Fixed penalty system
  • Improved daily race system
  • More cars
  • More tracks
  • Cool career mode

We're barely getting any new tracks and not that many new cars from what we've seen.. This single player must be amazing otherwise GT7 will be feeling like a gt sport dlc and Sony will be wondering where all the money they've probably given polyphony has gone, most likely on accurately simulating every star in the night sky and ensuring that rain drops fall at exactly the right speed 😂
 

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