GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[PzR Slim]

I was just wondering after reading about dirt 4 and thinking about drive club, that what if PDI/GTS is testing and planning two physics modes arcade/simulation as 1.04 and 1.05 could suggest. If they manage even nearly matching those together as 1.05 has more grip but 1.04 was faster(?) they would be close to providing for both customers.

And with POS.. Sorry BoP they could match laptimes of the drivers regardles of the mode they are using and match them to same races..

Interesting theory. I'd be really surprised if this happened.

 

[Haitauer]

Interesting theory. I'd be really surprised if this happened.

I think its kind of fashionable in the world of driving games at the moment.. 👍

Got another win not much action, but look at that launch.. like a different group. I just love that Ferrari - it "feels fast" and involved... and looks cool

And i beat my best qualifying time by almost a second in a race.



Edit: sorry wrong thread

 

[praiano63]

If you take any GR4 or GR3 , set it this way:

Ride height = Max rear mini front
springs = Max rear mini front
Aero = Max front mini rear
ARB = mini front maxi rear
High LSD accel
You can even set a extreme negative rear TOE

Then take the car to Willow springs for example, entring the first left turn, take the corner with a brutal driving input and put full gas at the apex.

Theoritically your car must spin like the sputnik or a derviche turner till the end of time.

What happen is that because PD limit this move and you´ll not pass 45° rotation. The drift only will slow you down a bit. This must be corrected quickly. Because of this the only way to tune cars for a max front grip and eagerness are this kind of extreme settings or close to this.

 

[Haitauer]

If you take any GR4 or GR3 , set it this way:

Ride height = Max rear mini front
springs = Max rear mini front
Aero = Max front mini rear
ARB = mini front maxi rear
High LSD accel
You can even set a extreme negative rear the apexTOE

Then take the car to Willow springs for example, entring the first left turn, take the corner with a brutal driving input and put full gas at the apex.

Theoritically your car must spin like the sputnik or a derviche turner till the end of time.

What happen is that because PD limit this move and you´ll not pass 45° rotation. The drift only will slow you down a bit. This must be corrected quickly. Because of this the only way to tune cars for a max front grip and eagerness are this kind of extreme settings or close to this.

Wow.. This coming from you must be an issue.

Whats your feel - could it be forced SRF as i have suggested?

Then again Willow is one of the last places where this can happen after v1. 05..


It has made this weird feeling come to me every time i spin.. Its like.. Im happy the car spun..

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you take any GR4 or GR3 , set it this way:

Ride height = Max rear mini front
springs = Max rear mini front
Aero = Max front mini rear
ARB = mini front maxi rear
High LSD accel
You can even set a extreme negative rear the apexTOE

Then take the car to Willow springs for example, entring the first left turn, take the corner with a brutal driving input and put full gas at the apex.

Theoritically your car must spin like the sputnik or a derviche turner till the end of time.

What happen is that because PD limit this move and you´ll not pass 45° rotation. The drift only will slow you down a bit. This must be corrected quickly. Because of this the only way to tune cars for a max front grip and eagerness are this kind of extreme settings or close to this.

So these extreme settings or something close to it actually work to make cars handle better or did you only use them to test whether the cars should spin or not?

 

[praiano63]

So these extreme settings or something close to it actually work to make cars handle better or did you only use them to test whether the cars should spin or not?

The limit of the extreme settings now are accessible to almost any pilot . With those settings we would have pass and from far the limits of an alien tune with extreme rotation. Now there is an extra aid activated when the car reach the limit.
A kind of forced SRF like suggest Haitauer.

 

[Motor City Hami]

If you take any GR4 or GR3 , set it this way:

Ride height = Max rear mini front
springs = Max rear mini front
Aero = Max front mini rear
ARB = mini front maxi rear
High LSD accel
You can even set a extreme negative rear the apexTOE

Then take the car to Willow springs for example, entring the first left turn, take the corner with a brutal driving input and put full gas at the apex.

Theoritically your car must spin like the sputnik or a derviche turner till the end of time.

What happen is that because PD limit this move and you´ll not pass 45° rotation. The drift only will slow you down a bit. This must be corrected quickly. Because of this the only way to tune cars for a max front grip and eagerness are this kind of extreme settings or close to this.

My complaint all along with Gran Turismo physics. Great testing @praiano63

 

[praiano63]

My complaint all along with Gran Turismo physics. Great testing @praiano63

Yes my friend, but the game is very addictive and very fun to drive hotlaping or racing. It´s far to be perfect and a bit arcady but i´m hooked just like GT do to me. I´m glued to my G29 since i begin to play the beta. No other game do this to me.

 

[Stotty]

If you take any GR4 or GR3 , set it this way:

Ride height = Max rear mini front
springs = Max rear mini front
Aero = Max front mini rear
ARB = mini front maxi rear
High LSD accel
You can even set a extreme negative rear TOE

They are similar to the 'ground effects settings' that worked on some of the cars in GT3, and allowed things like sub 50s laps of Lagua Secca in a Toyota GT1

GT physics FTW

 

[oneloops]

The limit of the extreme settings now are accessible to almost any pilot . With those settings we would have pass and from far the limits of an alien tune with extreme rotation. Now there is an extra aid activated when the car reach the limit.
A kind of forced SRF like suggest Haitauer.

Maybe GTS should limite the extension of range in tuning if they don't want to recreate the extreme handling of that kind of tuning, instead of a forced SRF that makes an "artificial" or unreal intrusion...

What you seem to forget is that without an understanding of the science behind the data that feel is meaningless.

Let me ask you a question that I hope will illustrate this.

You are driving your car and feel the following (that have not been present in the past), more play in the steering column along with odd vibrations that get worse at speed, you also notice a grinding noise from one of the wheels and are experiencing odd tyre wear.

What is the more likely issue with the car?

Oh and which is the odd one out and not a symptom of this problem?

I don't forget it, I agree with you, understanding data all the feel get more meaning.

I can be wrong, it could be a "wheel alignement and tyre balance" issue, or maybe a steering ball joint issue caused by a shock in a wheel rim... But I'm not very interested ( and incompetent ) in mechanical issues or mechanical wear neither in real life and in sims. When I detect a problem with my car or my motorbike I use to go directly to the workshop to fix it.

In sims I'm more focused and interested in a stock car with stock configurations, sometimes I make light setup modification, but that's not the area I enjoy the most in sims... For me and for others sim users, we enjoy and evaluate a sim with the stock setup and the way and the inmersion of driving a car can remember the feel of driving that car in real life. A great and realistic sim for us could be one who recreate in a great way those feelings and personal memories (even if we can't measure that). We can enjoy pushing in hotlaps events and racing against AI or against people, not only verifying and "playing with" different setups.

The infinite pleasure of cornering with a good line and a good timing has not prize in some sims, even if it doesn't match with any car or if it's a concept car, all because of a great inmersion and because that matchs memories that we already have experienced with real cars in real life.

I understand that for you and many others a great sim must match a single setup modification like in real life should. For you, the real data and real physics simulation in every area is probably the most important thing to evaluate a sim, I know and I understand that you can fully enjoy it as the most important side.

 

[praiano63]

Maybe GTS should limite the extension of range in tuning if they don't want to recreate the extreme handling of that kind of tuning, instead of a forced SRF that makes an "artificial" or unreal intrusion...

I think they have to increase the range of tuning effect.Principally dampers and springs that are nor very reactives. For the rest it seems ok for me with a no driving aids option.
Perhaps the SRF like 1.05 physics is just a test of an available option that will be in the future game. They can do what they want the way they want , it´s a free beta and perhaps we are used as simple cobayes. If i was PD i will do some things like this to check how people really want to play the game.
I just hope we will play the final version soon before july.

 

[Outspacer]

cobayes

... heading into turn one:

 

[praiano63]

... heading into turn one:

Safety first !!

 

[Haitauer]

If i was PD i will do some things like this to check how people really want to play the game

PDI also has a big task to make sure one cant take advantage by using driving aids. They might be forcing aids to record the difference in laptimes for optimization.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Yes my friend, but the game is very addictive and very fun to drive hotlaping or racing. It´s far to be perfect and a bit arcady but i´m hooked just like GT do to me. I´m glued to my G29 since i begin to play the beta. No other game do this to me.

I hate GT5. GT6 is a much better game. A well tuned car is fantastic to drive in GT6, but the tune settings are nowhere close to real world. My favorite game right now is Project Cars. Assetta Corsa and GT6 are about equal to me.

The decision for me to purchase a PS4 and GT Sport will weigh heavily upon your testing and opinion of the game. I look forward to more tests from you, my friend.

 

[praiano63]

PDI also has a big task to make sure one cant take advantage by using driving aids. They might be forcing aids to record the difference in laptimes for optimization.

You can set your online room with or without aids or any other parameters. At least you could in GT6, i think it´s going to be the same way or even better with more options in GTS.

 

[Haitauer]

You can set your online room with or without aids or any other parameters. At least you could in GT6, i think it´s going to be the same way or even better with more options in GTS.

Im wondering how they bring together casual aid users and sim racers in sport - mode. If they give edge to using aids they might drive away sim racers, and givin advantage to no aids drivers might drive away casual gamers.

I too believe the usual online mode will be quite traditional. 👍

 

[sems4arsenal]

Having spent more time with the game, I think there are hidden "driving aids". Catching slides is too easy and going on the grass doesn't really unsettle the car that much if any.

I'm betting that this is because of the beta and stuff like the Media cup so they want it to be more accessible.

 

[bokimoto]

Having spent more time with the game, I think there are hidden "driving aids"...

These came in strength with v1.05
A lot of us are hoping it was just an 'experiment', and that they go away.

There has been speculation of parallel settings in GT Sport, an 'accessable', 'fun' version (v1.05?),
... and then a 'no aids' version for the competition side of things.

DiRT 4 is implementing this kind of dual-personality, releasing in early June. wo0t!!

 

[PzR Slim]

Having spent more time with the game, I think there are hidden "driving aids". Catching slides is too easy and going on the grass doesn't really unsettle the car that much if any.

I'm betting that this is because of the beta and stuff like the Media cup so they want it to be more accessible.

I do hope this is the case and we get to turn it all off if we wish at release. Since 1.05 I've only spent a few hours playing

 

[sems4arsenal]

These came in strength with v1.05
A lot of us are hoping it was just an 'experiment', and that they go away.

There has been speculation of parallel settings in GT Sport, an 'accessable', 'fun' version (v1.05?),
... and then a 'no aids' version for the competition side of things.

DiRT 4 is implementing this kind of dual-personality, releasing in early June. wo0t!!

Doesn't have to be two modes. Just give us the options to let us turn everything off.

It would be baffling if they -- at the very least -- not give us the physics of the copper box build. Would be weird to develop all that and bin it.

 

[praiano63]

Im wondering how they bring together casual aid users and sim racers in sport - mode. If they give edge to using aids they might drive away sim racers, and givin advantage to no aids drivers might drive away casual gamers.

I too believe the usual online mode will be quite traditional. 👍

I think it will be in relation with the level of the player, perhaps a forced cockpit view for top level who knows, of course with an option to set the FOV.

 

[Haitauer]

Having spent more time with the game, I think there are hidden "driving aids". Catching slides is too easy and going on the grass doesn't really unsettle the car that much if any.

I'm betting that this is because of the beta and stuff like the Media cup so they want it to be more accessible.

These came in strength with v1.05
A lot of us are hoping it was just an 'experiment', and that they go away.

There has been speculation of parallel settings in GT Sport, an 'accessable', 'fun' version (v1.05?),
... and then a 'no aids' version for the competition side of things.

DiRT 4 is implementing this kind of dual-personality, releasing in early June. wo0t!!

I do hope this is the case and we get to turn it all off if we wish at release. Since 1.05 I've only spent a few hours playing

My guess since very soon after v. 1.05 update has been forced SRF. I just have such a strong familiar feeling from gt6 online lobbies where often i was forced to use SRF due to the difference it made. Was always trying to find those no srf rooms..

 

[GordonS]

Well, now that we (EU) have the Nür again for Gr.3 attacking I decided to do some time trialing with my Ferrari. I wouldn't say there is GT6 like SRF on the background. It's much easier to leave the corners but the Karussell corner is a pain in the rear. Man is it a hard corner to attack! I spun twice out of four attacks there. It feels like it is much more easy in Assetto and Pcars.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I hate GT5. GT6 is a much better game. A well tuned car is fantastic to drive in GT6, but the tune settings are nowhere close to real world. My favorite game right now is Project Cars. Assetta Corsa and GT6 are about equal to me.

The decision for me to purchase a PS4 and GT Sport will weigh heavily upon your testing and opinion of the game. I look forward to more tests from you, my friend.

Yeah, I also hated GT5. I had some fantastic cars in GT6 with great tunes-I had a very fast Mustang SVT, Chevrolet Camaro and Alfa Romeo 155 V6 Ti. I also had a great tune for the Mitsubishi FTO GPvR. We all know how screwed the tuning was but if you could make something work, it was great fun and very satisfying.

IMO I don't think GT6 and AC are on the same level. AC is much better physics wise but it's not very enjoyable for me.

 

[driftnick13]

So you find this most realistic?

"Input: Wired Xbox 360 Controller"

Didn't know judging if a sim is realistic or not is done with a gamepad.

 

[polizei]

Since the update it feels like the MR cars are not as weird as 1.4 but still terrible, imho. Certain cars have front ends that will not give up grip. The N300 lancer is the most obvious offender.

IMO, I hope these are just rough place-holder physics meant for testing and demo work, and that the final game is better.

 

[PzR Slim]

So is the general consensus that PD are trying to some weird things with this build to give them more data to make the right decisions regarding the physics simulation when it comes to the release version?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Since the update it feels like the MR cars are not as weird as 1.4 but still terrible, imho. Certain cars have front ends that will not give up grip. The N300 lancer is the most obvious offender.

IMO, I hope these are just rough place-holder physics meant for testing and demo work, and that the final game is better.

You can lower front damper extension to minimum, that should help with front end having too much grip on throttle ( may need to adjust front and rear compression as well depending on the car setup and weight distribution )

 

[Johnnypenso]

You can lower front damper extension to minimum, that should help with front end having too much grip on throttle ( may need to adjust front and rear compression as well depending on the car setup and weight distribution )

A 4wd with too much front grip is a bonus, not something I'd be tuning away

So is the general consensus that PD are trying to some weird things with this build to give them more data to make the right decisions regarding the physics simulation when it comes to the release version?

If they haven't got the physics sorted after 20 years, my guess is they are floundering more than they are fine tuning.