GT SPORT v.s GT6/Reality Comparison

[Saidur_Ali]

Don't think anyone is saying otherwise. That isn't gameplay though, is it? Zlork claimed the trailers were exactly like gameplay. We do not see the 500k poly models in game, when playing. We do in trailers depicting said gameplay.

Anyway this is all getting rather tiresome. Trailers =/= gameplay, trailers still look good and much better than GT6. That's about it.

That is in-game. As far as I can see, you are saying gameplay, not @Zlork. Also your comparison is using a GT5P press shot against gameplay which is not a trailer vs gameplay comparison.

GT6 videos were labelled concept movies while GT SPORT it is labelled as trailer so going by wording alone, I do think it is likely to be more representative. Not surprised lack of sounds in that trailer as they are probably still working on getting it to a high standard and if they dubbed in sounds then it will become like a concept trailer.

Replays are pre-rendered are they not?. I honestly have no idea why other racing games do not pre-render the replays when they look that good.

Real-time.

 

[ImaRobot]

That is in-game. As far as I can see, you are saying gameplay, not @Zlork. Also your comparison is using a GT5P press shot against gameplay which is not a trailer vs gameplay comparison.

Because @Zlork has already made that post many times over and we all know he's already talking about it in that way. It's still in the same effect. Its footage that was available before launch of a game showing that it was obviously not what we got in the game, which is exactly the point @Samus has been repeating over, and over, and over again. It runs along the exact same path that has been layed out.

GT6 videos were labelled concept movies while GT SPORT it is labelled as trailer so going by wording alone, I do think it is likely to be more representative. Not surprised lack of sounds in that trailer as they are probably still working on getting it to a high standard and if they dubbed in sounds then it will become like a concept trailer.

Essentially, they're all just trailers. Because they wanted to give it some special name doesn't really change that, does it?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Because @Zlork has already made that post many times over and we all know he's already talking about it in that way. It's still in the same effect. Its footage that was available before launch of a game showing that it was obviously not what we got in the game, which is exactly the point @Samus has been repeating over, and over, and over again. It runs along the exact same path that has been layed out.

Rather go by what he has actually said in this thread.

Essentially, they're all just trailers. Because they wanted to give it some special name doesn't really change that, does it?

So the word concept doesn't change meaning much for you?

 

[ImaRobot]

Rather go by what he has actually said in this thread.

Ok, in the meantime, everyone else will go off everything that he's said regarding the topic. Not just one post.

Here though, I'll help you out;

Rendering of GT6's trailers is the same, in-game.

The difference is that treatment things like aliasing or shadows.... It's perfect in the trailer.

If things like aliasing, shadows and some effects have the same treatment in-game, we would have the same rendering. There is no downgrade.

Asset, modeling, colors, and others, everything remains the same.

So the word concept doesn't change meaning much for you?

Who answers a question with a question? I guess I do.

 

[sems4arsenal]

You can't really "pre-render" something on the hardware itself, in-engine, in real time. There are a few enhancements applied (i.e. motion blur), but it's not on the same level as the actually pre-rendered trailers on far more powerful hardware with 500k polygon models, full anti-aliasing, superior alpha blending, dubbed audio, and so on. It's like CGI movies - it's rendered at an exceptionally quality on extremely powerful hardware and recorded - the movie is not rendered in real-time in the cinema.

So it's a bit like the cut scenes in TLOUR? where it's using higher assets but in real time?

 

[Samus]

So the word concept doesn't change meaning much for you?

Nope, because they call the GTS video both.

GT SPORT Trailer #1 Paris Games Week 2015

This is a concept movie of “Gran Turismo SPORT”, the newest iteration of the Gran Turismo series announced at the Paris Game Week.....

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Ok, in the meantime, we'll all go off everything that he's said regarding the topic. Not just one post.

Here though, I'll help you out;


Who answers a question with a question? I guess I do.

So where is the mention of gameplay?

 

[ImaRobot]

So where is the mention of gameplay?

Rendering of GT6's trailers is the same, in-game.

The difference is that treatment things like aliasing or shadows.... It's perfect in the trailer.

Meaning, it's exactly the same as it is during gameplay

If things like aliasing, shadows and some effects have the same treatment in-game, we would have the same rendering. There is no downgrade.

Asset, modeling, colors, and others, everything remains the same.

Meaning, It's exactly the same as it is during gameplay. The obvious part of this sentence is when he says there is no downgrade.

Even though, everything he's saying is a contradiction, but by this point, we get what he's trying to say.

 

[chzsln485]

So it's a bit like the cut scenes in TLOUR? where it's using higher assets but in real time?

Yeah, that would make sense as a comparison (although I haven't actually played The Last of Us Remastered, but it sounds very much like the same thing).

Forza 6 does it the same sort of thing too - it's why all the pre-race cutscene stuff is 30fps - the game uses the Photo Mode models (or higher poly models than the race ones at least) for all those close up shots. When the race countdown starts and the game hands you control of the car, it changes to 60fps, and you can sometimes spot the downgrade in model quality (seemingly necessary to achieve that framerate).

It's the same deal with GT6 - the replays use these enhancements at the expense of framerate. Of course, they don't need to be played directly, so the drop to 30fps isn't an issue, and all the grunt for 60fps is given over to higher quality visuals. You can't have both, though.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Meaning, it's exactly the same as it is during gameplay

Meaning, It's exactly the same as it is during gameplay. The obvious part of this sentence is when he says there is no downgrade.

Even though, everything he's saying is a contradiction, but by this point, we get what he's trying to say.

Photomode and replays are all features in-game that you can see GT6 rendering engine at a better level. From the trailers, I don't see them using higher quality assets like car models and tracks than what we get in-game.

 

[ImaRobot]

Photomode and replays are all features in-game that you can see GT6 rendering engine at a better level. From the trailers, I don't see them using higher quality assets like car models and tracks than what we get in-game.

The problem with that is that he's not talking about photomode or replays. We already know that he's comparing it to gameplay, as he's been on about it ever since the trailer initially released. That's why it's good to take into consideration everything someone has said, instead of using one post out of context.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

The problem with that is that he's not talking about photomode or replays. We already know that he's comparing it to gameplay, as he's been on about it ever since the trailer initially released. That's why it's good to take into consideration everything someone has said, instead of using one post out of context.

Going by all his posts, he mentions in-game clearly IIRC. Trying to change what he said certainly changes context.

 

[ImaRobot]

Going by all his posts, he mentions in-game clearly IIRC. Trying to change what he said certainly changes context.

Then you clearly haven't been following it if that's what you got from it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Then you clearly haven't been following it if that's what you got from it.

I've followed what he has said, not what others want him to have said.

 

[ImaRobot]

I've followed what he has said, not what others want him to have said.

Except for the fact that the photomode has been acknowledged as using a higher LOD on a different discussion. Replays have never been mentioned once by him outside of the discussion. It's obvious what he means by in-game taking into consideration the discussion he's already had about photomode, and gameplay. So if he wasn't arguing that whatsoever, why is he continuing to try to put up counterpoints against those that are discussing the gameplay(which he himself has been talking about for weeks now.) You seem to be the only one reassigning his posts.

He has been saying that the pre-rendered trailer is accurate proof of what gameplay would look like, and that it will be identical. There would be no changes, and that what you see in the trailer is what you'll get during gameplay. It's obvious that the trailers use higher quality assets, its like they're in photomode models 100% of the time, and that is not what happens in gameplay.

 

[ron86]

Not quite. It's a press shot using the highest quality LOD car that you don't actually see in gameplay.

So, do you consider this as an higher LOD model too? -->

Because this is a press shot from the official gran-turismo website and surely doesnt show the high LOD model!

Where that press shot does show the high LOD Model.

I say screenshots ("press shots") that are made during a race are the same as pictures from photomode made from replay in game! And the assets you see in Photomode (from Replay) are the same as during gameplay!

Which means the 3d models of the cars and the tracks of that trailer are pepresentative of what to await from GTS for gameplay.


And btw, this is an correct comparison to the ferrari picture you posted before, made ingame in photomode (which uses the low LOD model) -->

So dont see the evidence for "high LOD models in press shots"...

 

[Samus]

I may be wrong then on that Ferrari being the highest LOD but still the point is, the game doesn't look like that when you're actually playing it. Trailers definitely use the highest LOD cars as well.

 

[ron86]

Trailers definitely use the highest LOD cars as well.

And can you prove that?

 

[Samus]

And can you prove that?

No, but it doesn't take a genius to work out, just look at them. Why wouldn't they?

 

[ron86]

No, but it doesn't take a genius to work out, just look at them. Why wouldn't they?

One of those is from a trailer and the other one from replay photomode - i sadly cant find a "good" picture from phototravel - but i guess the lights are a bit smoother than from those screenshots.

So - if those are two different LOD models, since one is from a trailer and the other one from replay photomode - where are the differences?

Just watch that trailer


There is nothing that doesnt look like in the real GT6!

 

[sems4arsenal]

So to sum things up

High LOD = trailers,replays, photomode
Low LOD=gameplay

Is that correct? also trailers and replays use enhanced effects like Motion Blur, Bokeh etc?

 

[Zlork]

I feel that some members don't know that it's a LOD.

This is a technique that defines a level of detail of an object according to the size that will be on the screen.

More the object is close more there will be details. Unless the object is close less there will be details.

---

Real Gaeplay (screen thank to custom firmware, neogaf, 720p) :

Sierra in photo mode :

100% identical

 

[ron86]

So to sum things up

High LOD = trailers,replays, photomode
Low LOD=gameplay

Is that correct? also trailers and replays use enhanced effects like Motion Blur, Bokeh etc?

Its rather...

High LOD = Photomode
Low LOD = gameplay, trailers (where cars are shown like in a replay, on track), replays

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

LOD during photomode ( on track ) uses similar LOD when on gameplay. For example, I have taken interior pictures of several cars in GT6 when on track, interior LOD is the same for the photomode picture vs real time replay view ( when paused / free view on viewfinder ) Some cars have blurry texture + low LOD interior when driving and replay, taking photomode picture on these cars won't make any difference, the interior is the same in LOD. Photo travel is different beast ( depending on which car used some cars have awesome LOD, some, not so good )

Try to compare when on free view camera vs picture taken when on track, LOD is similar, wheel arch imperfection, roof line ( pillars ), low poly gear shifter, etc, like these on track photomode pics ( taken during replay ) :

Some cars have different LOD no matter what mode used, example Lamborghini Countach 25th vs Lotus Elise '96 on track LOD or photo travel LOD.

Syracuse LOD for Lotus Elise '96, prime example of lower LOD no matter what you do

 

[ImaRobot]

LOD during photomode ( on track ) uses similar LOD when on gameplay. For example, I have taken interior pictures of several cars in GT6 when on track, interior LOD is the same for the photomode picture vs real time replay view ( when paused / free view on viewfinder ) Some cars have blurry texture + low LOD interior when driving and replay, taking photomode picture on these cars won't make any difference, the interior is the same in LOD. Photo travel is different beast.

The problem with taking pictures of interiors with photomode, is that you aren't allowed to. It's a glitch that people figured out. If PD themselves let you open the doors, or use the interior in photomode, then I'm sure they would have used a different LOD for it aswell. Because there was no reason to get into the interior for them, they didn't care to bump the LOD as most of it is harder to view from the outside. It is done that way to let other area's get that extra umph.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The problem with taking pictures of interiors with photomode, is that you aren't allowed to. It's a glitch that people figured out. If PD themselves let you open the doors, or use the interior, then I'm sure they would have used a different LOD for it aswell. Because there was no reason to get into the interior for them, they didn't care to bump the LOD as most of it is harder to view from the outside. It is done that way to let other area's get that extra umph.

You need to take more time playing with photomode then, some cars have highly detailed interior LOD on track compared to other cars. For example, you can take interior pic of BMW M4, looks very detailed both on free view (on track/driving ) and when taken as picture, now do that on another car like Lotus Evora above, you will see lots of imperfection ( also on track/driving ). This also applies to the exterior, like front and rear lights ( compare M4 vs Evora vs Elise 96 vs countach 25th, all on track photo ), variation of LOD.

Interior texture ( dashboard ) often gets lower res as well while some cars have higher res texture on dashboard ( usually the tachometer and speedometer )

These LOD variances may have been an optimization for each vehicle, PD might have tested lots of possible variation of different premium on track and decide how much LOD is the best for each premium, or some cars are simply not well detailed, because PD

 

[Tornado]

The interior "view" of the car you drive with is a different model entirely from the interior of the car as viewed from the outside when you glitch into it. Some cars PD went strangely all out with anyway, but that seems to be more down to how recently PD modeled the cars rather than anything else.

 

[ImaRobot]

You need to take more time playing with photomode then, some cars have highly detailed interior LOD on track compared to other cars. For example, you can take interior pic of BMW M4, looks very detailed both on free view (on track/driving ) and when taken as picture, now do that on another car like Lotus Evora above, you will see lots of imperfection ( also on track/driving ). This also applies to the exterior, like front and rear lights ( compare M4 vs Evora vs Elise 96 vs countach 25th, all on track photo ), variation of LOD.

That doesn't take away from what I've said. Interiors are restricted from users for a reason, and that's because most of it is using an LOD that isn't presentable in most cases. You're also comparing cars that have been in for a while, that show these obvious flaws, compared to new cars that are trying to go all out.

 

[Zlork]

You need to take more time playing with photomode then, some cars have highly detailed interior LOD on track compared to other cars. For example, you can take interior pic of BMW M4, looks very detailed both on free view (on track/driving ) and when taken as picture, now do that on another car like Lotus Evora above, you will see lots of imperfection ( also on track/driving ). This also applies to the exterior, like front and rear lights ( compare M4 vs Evora vs Elise 96 vs countach 25th, all on track photo ), variation of LOD.

Interior texture ( dashboard ) often gets lower res as well while some cars have higher res texture on dashboard ( usually the tachometer and speedometer )

These LOD variances may have been an optimization for each vehicle, PD might have tested lots of possible variation of different premium on track and decide how much LOD is the best for each premium, or some cars are simply not well detailed, because PD

Some cars use tessellation adaptative

A technology that will be fully used for the next episodes

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The interior "view" of the car you drive with is a different model entirely from the interior of the car as viewed from the outside when you glitch into it. Some cars PD went strangely all out with anyway, but that seems to be more down to how recently PD modeled the cars rather than anything else.

I took the Evora interior at Eiger, from outside, zoomed in. The different interior model is only when driving on cockpit view, I'm talking about taking picture on replay, where you can still see interior ( which have lower LOD than cockpit view LOD )