GT Sport vs Project CARS 2: A Willow Springs Comparison

[Oyashiro-sama]

As a GT fanboy (hardcore as it gets), it pains me to say that I like PC2 graphics much better. GTS looks very fake and colored saturated. PC2 looks much more photo realistic than GTS. But what annoys me the most is the stupid glare problem (that plagued us since GT5): check around second 38 of the movie to know what I mean (even though it is visible almost all lap long). It's totally unrealistic how GT goes dark when the sun is in front of you. Not only you can't see the track but also the instruments going pitch black make the experience horribly bad.

The track surface textures are also a lot better in PC2. GTS track objects look a bit smoother though.

If PD redesigned GTS from scratch, I was hoping for this problems to be solved by now. Shame on them. And shame on them for those ugly color filters to try to trick people into feeling the graphics look prettier than the opposition (it is like makeup for video-games).

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot, the balloons do really look stupid. Besides, I would like to see a finish line for once in GT

 

[marcvic]

Interesting comparison, the beta vs. release spec - can't wait to see everything when they are all released....

Me too.. I didn't want to see the way their cams captured the image.. I would like to see the way a real persons sees the track and the car (or at least the most accurate as possible). When driving and facing directly to the sun I never see that kind of darkness inside the car...

I think it would be hard to simulate what your eyes experience through camera lenses. I don't think our eyes work like HDR, where they are immediately able to clearly decipher the lightest parts of your FOV from the darkest. PC2 even does it, albeit to a lesser extent. GT's lighting engine allows the effect to be more pronounced, and also the footage is at two different times of day, with GT having more cloud coverage:

Both games have their take on reality (like PC2 making the engine and turbo blow off more pronounced).

 

[danh25]

 

[sems4arsenal]

Ah, I've not heard the latest builds.

Looks like we'll get the chance in a few days to hear it in person

 

[Tired Tyres]

Looks like we'll get the chance in a few days to hear it in person

If you're referring to the 9th to 12th demo, that might be a Tesco pre order bonus. It says exclusive on the site several times.

 

[sems4arsenal]

If you're referring to the 9th to 12th demo, that might be a Tesco pre order bonus. It says exclusive on the site several times.

Sony just announced an open demo mate.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Sony just announced an open demo mate.

Yes, just seen the blog.

 

[Haitauer]

Here is a different reference:


It looks to me like they captured Willow Springs exactly how they saw it and how their cameras captured the light.

By condition i meant the surface of the track.

 

[karelpipa]

GT Sound is like :
Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu and the worst part is gear change.

 

[digant]

As a GT fanboy (hardcore as it gets), it pains me to say that I like PC2 graphics much better. GTS looks very fake and colored saturated. PC2 looks much more photo realistic than GTS. But what annoys me the most is the stupid glare problem (that plagued us since GT5): check around second 38 of the movie to know what I mean (even though it is visible almost all lap long). It's totally unrealistic how GT goes dark when the sun is in front of you. Not only you can't see the track but also the instruments going pitch black make the experience horribly bad.

The track surface textures are also a lot better in PC2. GTS track objects look a bit smoother though.

If PD redesigned GTS from scratch, I was hoping for this problems to be solved by now. Shame on them. And shame on them for those ugly color filters to try to trick people into feeling the graphics look prettier than the opposition (it is like makeup for video-games).

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot, the balloons do really look stupid. Besides, I would like to see a finish line for once in GT

GTS has better shadows (on cars) and better AA. But having played GTS beta I agree with you that overal PC2 is more realistic also in terms of graphics. Colors are too much saturated on GTS and you should consider that Willow Springs was the best track on the GTS beta (I liked it). For example, Nordscleife on GTS was horrible compared to PC2.
Furthermore, crowds and possibly other details are not present in PC2 during the practice session (used in the video). As reported by a lot of people, direct light (from GT5) makes really too much dark the view on GTS (it was quite annoying for me). Unfortunately physics on GTS was more or less the same as on GT6 (too arcade). We will see the final GTS but I don't expect big changes from the beta.

 

[22b_Fanboy]

Hate to be that guy and put down SMS, but the Evo in PCars 2 is a FQ400, and much more aggressive irl than the Final Edition that is featured in GT Sport.

 

[GumShoe]

Its about loving cars, and the experiance of racing what they give us, and on my opinion, Gran Turismo franchise experiance is the best experiance to feel that. So many people, so many opinions. Ones love to drive in mucle cars, others to supercars etc...

But GT doesn't give us the experience of racing. Unless racing irl is starting last and overtaking a slow field with no sessions other than race, no rules, no meaningful damage or detailed physics model. I suppose doing track days may be something with the heavy road car focus.

GT is about loving collecting cars, and this time GTS provides less than the competition...

Hate to be that guy and put down SMS, but the Evo in PCars 2 is a FQ400, and much more aggressive irl than the Final Edition that is featured in GT Sport.

How is that putting SMS down? It would support that the PC2 Evo is actually not overdone.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

OMG that constant tire squeal. Definitely a deal breaker for me. I can't go back to listening to that after playing both PCars titles and Assetto Corsa.

 

[MenocidiX]

Played the GTS beta and played PC2 the past two weeks. GTS is so static and that tire squeal is hypnotic as usual. Feels completely bland - even with those fancy air balloons... Compared to my recent PC2 experience, which includes beautiful dynamic weather & time, this is my conclusion:

PC2 for "dirty", adrenaline-packed racing; GTS for nice photos. Sad judgement, but time & GT really have changed.

 

[davidt33]

OMG that constant tire squeal. Definitely a deal breaker for me. I can't go back to listening to that after playing both PCars titles and Assetto Corsa.

<-----Kinda like the tyre squeals in Pcars2

 

[jaj_fox]

Interesting comparison, the beta vs. release spec - can't wait to see everything when they are all released....



I think it would be hard to simulate what your eyes experience through camera lenses. I don't think our eyes work like HDR, where they are immediately able to clearly decipher the lightest parts of your FOV from the darkest. PC2 even does it, albeit to a lesser extent. GT's lighting engine allows the effect to be more pronounced, and also the footage is at two different times of day, with GT having more cloud coverage:

View attachment 676933

Both games have their take on reality (like PC2 making the engine and turbo blow off more pronounced).

Is dark because is like the real thing....

 

[MisterOne77]

Is the tire squeal in GT really that bad? I've played GT4-GT6 and have watched footage of GTS and the tire squeals don't even phase me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Is dark because is like the real thing....

That's not the real thing. The real thing is what you see when you drive outside. What you are seeing is the image interpreted through an imperfect medium - the capture device. That's not what real life looks like to me when driving towards the sun.

 

[azeeza]

That's not the real thing. The real thing is what you see when you drive outside. What you are seeing is the image interpreted through an imperfect medium - the capture device. That's not what real life looks like to me when driving towards the sun.

The part with the capture device is correct, but for the drive toward the sun, you must don't drive enough, or not on the same conditions.
For the comparaison GT vs pc, both look good, but difference is due to the different time of sun.
Driving on the morning rising sun, is very blindly, you don't see any informations from the dashboard.

 

[jaj_fox]

The part with the capture device is correct, but for the drive toward the sun, you must don't drive enough, or not on the same conditions.
For the comparaison GT vs pc, both look good, but différence is due to the different time of sun.
Driving on the morning rising sun, is very blindly, you don't see any informations from the dashboard.

Yep i drive everyday.. At morning and sunset... I think GT is more accurate in lightning aspect.

 

[mef]

. It's totally unrealistic how GT goes dark when the sun is in front of you. Not only you can't see the track but also the instruments going pitch black make the experience horribly bad.

Exactly, it's game breakingly bad. Cannot play a day night cycle on GT for this reason. I'm enjoying Pcars2 now as my sim of choice on console. GT Sport is more of a coffee break type of game now for me.

Yep i drive everyday.. At morning and sunset... I think GT is more accurate in lightning aspect.

Human eyes like camera lenses can adapt to brightness levels, by dilating the pupil or adjusting shutter angle, result being less light enters. This happens automatically in our eyes, as we focus on areas we wish to see. So to have it that dark always in GT Sport just makes it unplayable. If they want to play that effect of our vision adjusting, it should be a temporary effect, but really its entirely unrealistic to attempt to replicate this, as it depends on where the eye is focusing. Pcars2 has it right in not trying to replicate this too closely, it is just spoiling game play.

 

[trustjab]

Would be nice to revisit this comparison when the actual GTSport game releases. And they have the same time of day. Until then it's not very fair for either game.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The part with the capture device is correct, but for the drive toward the sun, you must don't drive enough, or not on the same conditions.
For the comparaison GT vs pc, both look good, but difference is due to the different time of sun.
Driving on the morning rising sun, is very blindly, you don't see any informations from the dashboard.

I spend more time in my vehicle every week then probably 90% of the population who doesn't drive for a living. At no point driving towards the sun, morning or afternoon, is the dash or inside of my truck black, nor is the surrounding scenery.

 

[CoolColJ]

I spend more time in my vehicle every week then probably 90% of the population who doesn't drive for a living. At no point driving towards the sun, morning or afternoon, is the dash or inside of my truck black, nor is the surrounding scenery.

Well you don't even look at the dash since your blinded
I drive at sun rise everyday just about, and if the sun blind is not down, I'm squinting

This footage of GT Sport is really old, the sounds are all different now
And I guess people have not driven a road car hard in real life, because the tyre screeches are really loud on street tyres!
And continuous on a long turn

 

[Atwork]

I'm actually more impressed with the GT Sport sound than PC's 2 in this video.
I drive standard cars on track a lot and GT Sport reflects the truth a lot better than PC's 2.
All you do hear in a standard car is tyre squeal. Road tyres are a lot worse for it than race tyres.
The car engine noise should sound muted on a standard road car as well. PC's 2 is just over doing it to make it sound like a racecar in my opinion.
I won't say the sound is good in GT Sport until I hear race cars though. The engine end exhaust sounds of a race car should over power the tyre squeal. Hopefully they have good dynamic range in the sound department to reflect this which is something every other GT game has lacked. Past games have had 4 cylinder econo boxes just as load as the screaming 787B.

That tire squeal, it's just terrible we've been talking about it for years.
I think this round gentleman I'm going to redbox GT first.
$3 rent it for 24 hours to really check it out for myself first.

It would be nice to be able to tone down the tire noise but it does have a purpose. The tire squeal is suppose to help give feed back on grip. (Edit just played forza again and notice the lack of squeal and it is nice) The squeal should matter less for the wheel though(or at least it's intent). Kaz has checked off a lot of the boxes that people have complained about or at least attempted to fix the issues. In the end it is GT so it is trying to cater to more than just us here.

With the xbox1vs of pc2 the first thing my gf said was that she thought it was a little cartoonish. She is not a gamer but I get what she was saying, to me it is lacking some color depth. I can't say I know what pc2 looks like the pc though but I would think it is better. Two jobs, back to school and three race games thx developers. Last year it was Cod, Battlefield and Titan Fall 2, I would think it must hurt sales to all come out so close. Oh well first world problems I guess.

I am probably in the minority since I don't run that long of races but don't really care about dynamic weather or time change. I do get however that it others do care about dynamic changes and how it can be a selling point. I am fine with it be out of GTS other than the fact I want all racers to do as good as possible.

 

[azeeza]

I spend more time in my vehicle every week then probably 90% of the population who doesn't drive for a living. At no point driving towards the sun, morning or afternoon, is the dash or inside of my truck black, nor is the surrounding scenery.

Test the next time when you drive on rising sun, and don't put the sun visor, and look at the dash.
I know what i say cause i couldn't read the tachymeter.

 

[leeboy910]

GT Sport is way ahead in terms of visuals. Try watching the footage on a display with Full HDR, 4K and OLED.
PC2 is horribly bugged, incredibly difficult to set up a wheel with for FFB, and simply hasn't nailed the handling models correctly.
It can be fun when you get a good lap together, but the problems are very frustrating to say the least. Plus, the default viewing angles are poor and completely detract from the sensation of speed. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a bad game, I've had plenty of fun playing it, but I can't sit for longer than maybe 30 minutes before it starts to annoy me with bugs or issues.

I'm confident GT Sport will be relatively bug free on release. Unsure of the handling and feel, but previous GT games have been decent, with close racing being possible online without frustrations (except for servers maybe!!).

Bring on the demo.

 

[Oyashiro-sama]

I spend more time in my vehicle every week then probably 90% of the population who doesn't drive for a living. At no point driving towards the sun, morning or afternoon, is the dash or inside of my truck black, nor is the surrounding scenery.

True story! I confirm this. Taking the sun directly in your eyes, at most, will make everything as bright as a ****, not dark! You may have trouble to see the road, not because it is pitch dark, but too damn bright. Also, as long as there is sun (and thus light) out there, it is always possible to see the car instruments. ALWAYS!!

The problem with GT model is that the only light source is the sun (much like in real life), but GT does not account the light reflections and diffusion. These are hard to calculate, and the thing is, no one wants it calculated. In my Computer Graphics lessons, one of the first things they taught me when explaining light models is how to set a default ambience light, a light that is always there, even if the sun (or other light sources are obstructed).

Imagine that you have a truck in from of the sun and you drop your wallet in it's shadow. I tell you, the wallet will ALWAYS still be visible, even if there is no direct light source nor direct reflections. It is never pitch black! Because there is light diffusion (which is simulated with setting the ambience light I said above). So, the car instruments should be visible (but they are not in GT, since the source light is opposite to them and the driver and seats do not reflect light into it and there is no ambience light set, so there is no way they get light, thus the unrealistic pitch black effect).

I can admit people liking GTS graphics more (because it has better anti-aliasing and the arguably ugly/pretty but certainly unrealistic color filters). But I can't believe people can even say that what GTS is doing is replicating reality (at most it is replicating what a cheap cellphone camera would capture, but even that is pushing it).

 

[azeeza]

True story! I confirm this. Taking the sun directly in your eyes, at most, will make everything as bright as a ****, not dark! You may have trouble to see the road, not because it is pitch dark, but too damn bright. Also, as long as there is sun (and thus light) out there, it is always possible to see the car instruments. ALWAYS!!

The problem with GT model is that the only light source is the sun (much like in real life), but GT does not account the light reflections and diffusion. These are hard to calculate, and the thing is, no one wants it calculated. In my Computer Graphics lessons, one of the first things they taught me when explaining light models is how to set a default ambience light, a light that is always there, even if the sun (or other light sources are obstructed).

Imagine that you have a truck in from of the sun and you drop your wallet in it's shadow. I tell you, the wallet will ALWAYS still be visible, even if there is no direct light source nor direct reflections. It is never pitch black! Because there is light diffusion (which is simulated with setting the ambience light I said above). So, the car instruments should be visible (but they are not in GT, since the source light is opposite to them and the driver and seats do not reflect light into it and there is no ambience light set, so there is no way they get light, thus the unrealistic pitch black effect).

I can admit people liking GTS graphics more (because it has better anti-aliasing and the arguably ugly/pretty but certainly unrealistic color filters). But I can't believe people can even say that what GTS is doing is replicating reality (at most it is replicating what a cheap cellphone camera would capture, but even that is pushing it).

Where you' re wrong, is that you change your eye direction ( wallet exemple), so eyes have time to adjust with less blind light, And where you see on the video, it s always the facing sun.
2, the cockpit on GT is not on full dark. And you can't judge with this simple video about the brightness ( much you need the help of hdr) to have your dillated pupil. Are you blind by looking this video ? Not really

And question For you, if you can always see the instruments, so explain me how i didn't try to look the instrument ( when i want to check my speed) because it s become useless when i drove ?

 

[jake2013guy]

Having a look at the video, overall the GTS does look better.

However, there are some things that aren't shown as well in it. Going around the track, you see the interior lighting change massively even when there are no shadows to excuse it.

The circuit itself looks like Willow Springs has had a complete resurface and from the video below of a 2017 Willow Springs, that looks to be nothing like the case.



It looks like the time of day is massively different in this as well. GTS looks like a sunrise or sunset and PCARS looks like an afternoon/morning and that's a pretty sizeable difference.