GT4 Dampers

[Scaff]

I see, agree with complicated thing, I'll try to see if I can feel the damper grip the same way camber do (I can understand camber spiky grip).

Scaff, from your point of view can you explain each video following this two scenario:

1. Assume that stop code exist, hacked value is irrelevant.
2. Assume that stop code not exist, hacked value is relevant.

I will make my version of explanation too, but I like to hear your version first. I like to hear comment from everyone too.

First off Sucahyo I have to congratulate you on the sheer ampunt of work you have done here, very, very impresive.

I would also like agree with what has been said by sukerkin and Team666 with regard to damper settings and how much work goes into damper settings (and agree with the domanant characteristic of rebound - a lot of adjustable real world damper will allow rebound adjustment only).

Now I have had a look at all the vidoes and I have to say it does help to explain a lot. So to answer you two questions.

1. Assume that stop code exist, hacked value is irrelevant
So if we first ignore the extreme damper values then I would have to say that the lower damper values appear to allow the suspension to track the road surface much better. As the spring rate increases the shorter amount of travel allowed is exagerating the problem of using higher damper settings. Causing the car to skip more and more.

In short the higher the spring rate and/or damper setting the more the car skips and the harder time the suspension has keeping in contact with the road.


2. Assume that stop code not exist, hacked value is relevant.
Now this for me is the point at which things get very interesting. As the settings get into the hacked range the car will still skip as the damper and/or spring rate values increase, but the car also takes on a bouncing quality.

Now I just want to say that I believe that sucahyo's tests (excellent choice of car by the way - nice light rear end helps here) do clearly demonstrate the code 'stopping' the car traveling upwards beyond a certain point. If you watch all of them the car has a maximum height point which the back end will not exceed. The cars rear is then returns from this artificial point and is almost immediatly thrown straight back up again.

I can easily see that this could be mistaken for a very, very soft bouncing motion.

Now sucahyo may still not agree with me, but I personally think that these vidoes clearly demonstrate a few points.

1. Damper values in GT2 are lower = softer & higher = harder
2. Extreme values can have a major effect on test results
3. Testing require a lot of work and a very wide range of incremental tests
4. Were all far to obsesed with GT and dampers

Well thats my thoughts on the matter.

Regards

Scaff

 

[sukerkin]

I have to concur with you on the above, Scaff, particularly:

We're all far to obsesed with GT and dampers

Oh so true, particularly in my case !

 

[Scaff]

I have to concur with you on the above, Scaff, particularly:



Oh so true, particularly in my case !

Yep, and for me you have to add, tyres, brakes, spring rates, diff maps, etc, etc, etc.

The worst part is for my long suffering wife and kids, that I actually work in the motor industry, you'd think I'd get enough at work.

Regards

Scaff

 

[sucahyo]

It seems I use the wrong word for the scenario, I should explain it more, what I mean is:

1. Assume that stop code exist, hacked value is irrelevant, it can give anomaly. You have to decide when the hacked value give anomaly.
2. Assume that stop code not exist, hacked value is relevant, it won't give anomaly. You have to decide a linier or logarithmic correlation between d1 and d40 on default spring rate, s10 or s20.

And as for GT2, wich gives you better handling, 1 or 10? If you say 10, it´s all settled. 10 is harder than 1!

About handling, on any spring rate, 1 wil give me best handling for grip driving, 10 will give me easiest countering / less spinning when drifting. 1 is snappy, 10 is slippy.

If you watch all of them the car has a maximum height point which the back end will not exceed. The cars rear is then returns from this artificial point and is almost immediatly thrown straight back up again.
I can easily see that this could be mistaken for a very, very soft bouncing motion.

this give me two thinking:

1. You think that the car will stop jump at a certain angle or height, the same way side flip preventer do which happen when tire is airborne.
2. You think that the car will stop jump at height which influenced by speed and amount of bump it receive. more speed or bump will make the stop jump higher. at low speed and bump the stop height will be lower.

The 1st one do not explain how d40 and s10d40 show soft bouncing motion with the tire still stick to the ground.
The 2nd one explaining soft damper behaviour.

Please compare damper on different spring rate. Are you saying that those little slow motion up and down when passing small bump is a bug? I will not call that jump, because the wheel is still sticking to the tarmac. And hard damper will not do that.

1. Damper values in GT2 are lower = softer & higher = harder
2. Extreme values can have a major effect on test results
3. Testing require a lot of work and a very wide range of incremental tests
4. Were all far to obsesed with GT and dampers

Yes, I don't agree with the 1st one, I don't know what you mean for the 2nd and 3rd, agree with 4th .

Do you still think stop code for damper when using hacked value exist?
can you explain your reason why you think stop code exist?
can you think PD reason to make stop code exist?
and from the video can you explain how the stop code happen? flip preventer doesn't explain d40 and s10d40 behaviour.

Are there any place that can make the car jump for few second in GT4?
If there is, what damper bound value that will make the rebouncing power reduced more, 1 or 10?
In GT2 the answer is 1, I did the test (reducing rejump) without realizing that to reduce rebouncing you need stiffer damper, this is what I said : "more bound damper will make the car easier to rejump,", silly me.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I think flip preventer is what is refered to when stop code is mensioned. I do think that effects hacked values behavior. That, and also, for some reason, PD saw it fit to include a code that, as much as possible, keeps the tyres on ground. Very apparent in FF cars with hard suspension. During turning, such a car would have one of the rear wheels lifted from the ground, but that effect is not present in GT series, AFAIK. This may also effect hacked values tuning.

@Scaff. Can you try something out that is relevant to this? Use the Audi R8 settings found in my sig (apart from gears, as they are set up with NOS in mind. Just autoset to the max), and apply them to the Toyota GT-One. Compare dampersetting 10/1 and 1/1, and notice the difference in nodding (deeper nods in 1/1). Do the same in GT2! Are the results similar?

 

[Scaff]

It seems I use the wrong word for the scenario, I should explain it more, what I mean is:

1. Assume that stop code exist, hacked value is irrelevant, it can give anomaly. You have to decide when the hacked value give anomaly.
2. Assume that stop code not exist, hacked value is relevant, it won't give anomaly. You have to decide a linier or logarithmic correlation between d1 and d40 on default spring rate, s10 or s20.

I have a slight problem with this as I know that the GT physics engine will stop a car doing everything it should (as do the majority of sims), do you know of any game in which licenced road cars are featured that you can roll or flip them?

Something has to stop them doing this, and that something is going to have an effect on how the cars suspension reacts. Using extreme values, in my opinion, is just going to exagerate this.

this give me two thinking:

1. You think that the car will stop jump at a certain angle or height, the same way side flip preventer do which happen when tire is airborne.
2. You think that the car will stop jump at height which influenced by speed and amount of bump it receive. more speed or bump will make the stop jump higher. at low speed and bump the stop height will be lower.

The 1st one do not explain how d40 and s10d40 show soft bouncing motion with the tire still stick to the ground.
The 2nd one explaining soft damper behaviour.

I think a combination of both (but I must confess I'm not 100% sure what you mean). The cars rear can clearly be seen to reach a certain point and is then forced back down, the maximum level of this point appears to be fixed.

Please compare damper on different spring rate. Are you saying that those little slow motion up and down when passing small bump is a bug? I will not call that jump, because the wheel is still sticking to the tarmac. And hard damper will not do that.

As Team666 has already said GT code is very reluctant to let tyres leave the ground, particularly two wheels at the same time, its not a bug strictly speaking as its intentional.

Yes, I don't agree with the 1st one, I don't know what you mean for the 2nd and 3rd, agree with 4th .

The second and third points are that:
2. Extreme values can throw out results (of this I am sure) and may cause the software to reach a 'stop' point in the code that does not allow a direct comaprison to the real world.
3. When testing you need to use a lot of tests to show effects building up, as you have done here. But you also need to take care not to assume the results.

Do you still think stop code for damper when using hacked value exist?
can you explain your reason why you think stop code exist?
can you think PD reason to make stop code exist?
and from the video can you explain how the stop code happen? flip preventer doesn't explain d40 and s10d40 behaviour.

Yes I do believe that the flip/roll prevention is coming into play with the hacked values.

I can also tell you why this code exists, quite simply if you want to use licenced road cars in a game, the manufacturers will not let you roll or flip them. Its also one of the reasons why sims that feature damage rarely have realistic damage, but mainly cosmetic damage. Forza was one of the first to include road car damage that had an effect on performance, and even that is very 'dumbed' down and still does not allow you to roll or flip the cars.

Racing only sims such as the TOCA race driver series, Richard Burns Rally, etc have much better damage and do allow rolls and flips, Richard Burns RAlly hsa what I would class as one of the finest damage models on a console sim at the present time.

I don't think that unless you know exactly how the stop code was programmed and implimented you can say that it does not explain how the car reacts to the d40 and s10d40 behaviour. But I can tell you that something is not correct in regard to the real world.

Its why I maintain that just looking at the car (particularly in GT2) is not a definative way of determining damper values, just as in the real world the single most important factor is feel, how does the car feel as it encounters bumps, curbs, etc.

Are there any place that can make the car jump for few second in GT4?
If there is, what damper bound value that will make the rebouncing power reduced more, 1 or 10?
In GT2 the answer is 1, I did the test (reducing rejump) without realizing that to reduce rebouncing you need stiffer damper, this is what I said : "more bound damper will make the car easier to rejump,", silly me.

Lots of places in GT4 were you can get the car of the ground for a few seconds, but they are all rally tracks (the road track don't get you in the air for that long). Its been a while since I played around with rally settings, I will see if I can look into this one.

I think flip preventer is what is refered to when stop code is mensioned. I do think that effects hacked values behavior. That, and also, for some reason, PD saw it fit to include a code that, as much as possible, keeps the tyres on ground. Very apparent in FF cars with hard suspension. During turning, such a car would have one of the rear wheels lifted from the ground, but that effect is not present in GT series, AFAIK. This may also effect hacked values tuning.

It is possiable to get a single rear wheel in the air in GT4, its just far, far more difficult than it should be.

I would therefore agree with you that this is also going to have an effect on these tests.

@Scaff. Can you try something out that is relevant to this? Use the Audi R8 settings found in my sig (apart from gears, as they are set up with NOS in mind. Just autoset to the max), and apply them to the Toyota GT-One. Compare dampersetting 10/1 and 1/1, and notice the difference in nodding (deeper nods in 1/1). Do the same in GT2! Are the results similar?

I would be more than happy to. 👍

Regards

Scaff

 

[sucahyo]

Oh, my bad, I thought that you refer to something other than flip preventer when you mentioning stop code, which is of course will affect both hacked and non hacked value. I thought you are saying some kind of code to make hacked value invalid or will create anomaly. From what I recall, flip preventer should work for atleast 30 degree front/rear or 60 degree left/right.
Are you saying flip preventer is affected by suspension tuning? the stopping angle will be lower if we use higher damper or higher spring rate?

You still not explaining d40, s10d40, s20d40 when meeting small bump creating small and slow movement.
If it intentional with hard damper, wouldn't it be jadgy, fast? I mean how can hard damper creating slow pendulum motion (without any sudden stop happened, characteristic of flip preventer working).

 

[Scaff]

Oh, my bad, I thought that you refer to something other than flip preventer when you mentioning stop code, which is of course will affect both hacked and non hacked value. I thought you are saying some kind of code to make hacked value invalid or will create anomaly. From what I recall, flip preventer should work for atleast 30 degree front/rear or 60 degree left/right.
Are you saying flip preventer is affected by suspension tuning? the stopping angle will be lower if we use higher damper or higher spring rate?

No I'm saying that the more extreme the value the more likely it is that the suspension will meet these values, however as I don't have access to the person who wrote the code I'm also saying that we can't be 100% sure.

You still not explaining d40, s10d40, s20d40 when meeting small bump creating small and slow movement.
If it intentional with hard damper, wouldn't it be jadgy, fast? I mean how can hard damper creating slow pendulum motion (without any sudden stop happened, characteristic of flip preventer working).

Which is exactly why I have such an issue with using only visual data, what is shown as a graphical representation and may be effect in ways we can't be 100% sure of in the code is simply not definative.

Its why I've said it so many times and will continue to say it, feel is the single most important factor here.

I apologise if I seem to be getting a little short here, but have you actually experienced how these values actually 'feel'? Or have they only been analysied visually, because if its the latter its like trying to test real damper setting by only looking at a video of how the car moves and not bothering to ask the driver how it felt and reacted.

Trust me, thats not how you tune dampers.

If you have not done so, now would be a good time to pick up a playstation and controller and actually 'feel' how these settings are. I would suggest ignoring hacked values and just using the normal range and driving a large number of laps, at different tracks and in different cars.

I say this because everything I have felt and seen in GT2 (just using the standard values) has convinced me that the values are the same as the rest of the series.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff. Can you try something out that is relevant to this? Use the Audi R8 settings found in my sig (apart from gears, as they are set up with NOS in mind. Just autoset to the max), and apply them to the Toyota GT-One. Compare dampersetting 10/1 and 1/1, and notice the difference in nodding (deeper nods in 1/1). Do the same in GT2! Are the results similar?

Done, and to be honest as far as the front end nodding goes its almost impossiable to tell a difference on a GT-One with these settings.

However use the wheel cam and the 1/1 setting can be seen to track the road better than the 10/1 setting when looking at the front wheel; however the graphical quality on GT2 does make it harder to tell.

This, once again, is were feel comes into it, the 1/1 setting felt soft and the 10/1 setting was very hard and the car felt like it was trying to skip.

Regards

Scaff

 

[sucahyo]

My reason why hacked value have to be correct too:

• Future improvement, By ensuring outside user range value work correctly, PD can easily change the suitable tuning range based on beta tester or current version response without having to redo from scratch. If at the last moment Kazunori decide to include bigfoot or chariot or bus or dump truck, they can do that just by changing the multiplier. ex. GT3 & GT4 spring rate, if GT4 have harder range spring rate, which should be GT3 hacked value, then the code should be working correctly on all value in GT3, otherwise its ?.
• Portability, PD can use the engine to create another game if they decide not to limit themself with only displayed range value. They must have already correct hacked value to be able to use it on another game like Tourist Trophy. If they do it when they create TT, its ?.
• Competency, PD programmer is competent enough to create code that accept any value that the designer want to accept.

In GT2 its impossible to lift inside rear wheel because:

• All four wheel is completely independent
• Unlimited wheel extruding or compressing

Is it true wheel extrude and compress limited in GT4? I forget.

About keep tyre on the road code, not agree, the tyre still jump fine on bump. Although this never tested.

About damper, I give up. I won't argue anymore, but I still think that 10 is softest.

About feeling, I never feel different damper fitting on the same car, and never drive car fast at corner. I only feel it on my motorcycle (suzuki), which its damper become weaker and weaker every month. The visual of frantically moving wheel on s10d15 or s20d15 is the same as motorcycle tire visual (although not as much) at 100 kmph bumpy road, which is plenty in here. My previous motorcycle (honda) has an even weaker damper, which skip the road on corner bump at just 60 kmph (just like s20d15), get scary sometimes, luckily its the rear. And if you ask if its damper is hard, the answer is not, its the softest motorcycle damper I have ever ride, softest to ride on slow speed. My suzuki won't have problem on that corner.
My suzuki seems being setup for "high" speed with more harder spring and stiffer damper, because at slow speed the road bump is more noticable than at high speed. In honda at slow speed it feel soft with softer spring and very soft damper, but at high speed the wheel skipping the road frequently, with the wheel keep moving frantically. The suzuki wheel feels more planted.
When I just get the suzuki, the damper feels very stiff, it react on every bump instantly, sending the road vibration to my backbone. Now, the suzuki damper feel more soft, doesn't send road vibration as much. The corner where honda have problem become little more skippy than before but not as much as honda.

Here is my feeling for my mototcyle damper:

• soft will give good ride, too soft will make metal meeting noise on rebounce, skipping the road on frequent bump at highspeed, braking and cornering.
• hard will give bad ride, especially low speed, giving better control on high speed and bumpier road. safer on slalom and braking.

If you think my feeling for motorcycle is irrelevant, I won't argue.
Since feeling the damper using keyboard can be little misguiding, its no use for me.

About your car, I think it's the spring rate that make it feels hard in bumpy road if you feel it in both high speed on low speed. if you feel it only on low speed, its the damper.
About my brother car, its 1991 civic sedan 5 speed, the damper seems very weak because he never change it.

 

[Scaff]

My reason why hacked value have to be correct too:

• Future improvement, By ensuring outside user range value work correctly, PD can easily change the suitable tuning range based on beta tester or current version response without having to redo from scratch. If at the last moment Kazunori decide to include bigfoot or chariot or bus or dump truck, they can do that just by changing the multiplier. ex. GT3 & GT4 spring rate, if GT4 have harder range spring rate, which should be GT3 hacked value, then the code should be working correctly on all value in GT3, otherwise its ?.
• Portability, PD can use the engine to create another game if they decide not to limit themself with only displayed range value. They must have already correct hacked value to be able to use it on another game like Tourist Trophy. If they do it when they create TT, its ?.
• Competency, PD programmer is competent enough to create code that accept any value that the designer want to accept.

I did not say that the extreme values you use were the problem themselves (and if it came across in that way I apologise) rather that the use of extreme values was hitting the 'stop' code for flip and rolls, which will effect you're results.

In terms of some of the areas you discussed such as future improvement and portability, then certainly GT2s engine did get developed and used in GT3, just as GT2's engine is a development of the GT engine. PD are quite open about this. However the GT4 engine was apperently writen from the ground up, it may well however be used as the start point for the GT5 engine. It is however clear to see that the changes made to the engine from Gt to GT2 to GT3 do appear to have been significant.

Portability is one that I would in part agree with, just not with TT. Given the limits of the PS2 I would be surprised if an adapted version of the GT4 engine could be used for TT and have to say from early demo tests of TT (see the TT forum for details) and the influence the riders body position has on the handling I find it unlikely.

In GT2 its impossible to lift inside rear wheel because:

• All four wheel is completely independent
• Unlimited wheel extruding or compressing

Is it true wheel extrude and compress limited in GT4? I forget.

About keep tyre on the road code, not agree, the tyre still jump fine on bump. Although this never tested.

Suspension extension and compression are limited in GT4 (from what I can see), and the fact that they are limited in GT2 would explain why the wheel does not always skip in the higher damper values when it should.

Again a graphical limitation that backs up why we should not just use visual information to determine what is happening.

About damper, I give up. I won't argue anymore, but I still think that 10 is softest.

And as I said in the GT2 forum, I totally support you'r right to think that. I just don't agree and believe that until you include the 'feel' element in you're tests you have not explored all the tests fully.

About feeling, I never feel different damper fitting on the same car, and never drive car fast at corner. I only feel it on my motorcycle (suzuki), which its damper become weaker and weaker every month. The visual of frantically moving wheel on s10d15 or s20d15 is the same as motorcycle tire visual (although not as much) at 100 kmph bumpy road, which is plenty in here. My previous motorcycle (honda) has an even weaker damper, which skip the road on corner bump at just 60 kmph (just like s20d15), get scary sometimes, luckily its the rear. And if you ask if its damper is hard, the answer is not, its the softest motorcycle damper I have ever ride, softest to ride on slow speed. My suzuki won't have problem on that corner.
My suzuki seems being setup for "high" speed with more harder spring and stiffer damper, because at slow speed the road bump is more noticable than at high speed. In honda at slow speed it feel soft with softer spring and very soft damper, but at high speed the wheel skipping the road frequently, with the wheel keep moving frantically. The suzuki wheel feels more planted.
When I just get the suzuki, the damper feels very stiff, it react on every bump instantly, sending the road vibration to my backbone. Now, the suzuki damper feel more soft, doesn't send road vibration as much. The corner where honda have problem become little more skippy than before but not as much as honda.

Here is my feeling for my mototcyle damper:

• soft will give good ride, too soft will make metal meeting noise on rebounce, skipping the road on frequent bump at highspeed, braking and cornering.
• hard will give bad ride, especially low speed, giving better control on high speed and bumpier road. safer on slalom and braking.

If you think my feeling for motorcycle is irrelevant, I won't argue.
Since feeling the damper using keyboard can be little misguiding, its no use for me.

Bike dampers are not irellivent, but they are not 100% directly compariable. It also sounds like you need new dampers on you're bike in a big way. I have to say from what you have said they sound totally shot.

About your car, I think it's the spring rate that make it feels hard in bumpy road if you feel it in both high speed on low speed. if you feel it only on low speed, its the damper.
About my brother car, its 1991 civic sedan 5 speed, the damper seems very weak because he never change it.

Don't worry I know the differnence between damper and spring feel, My Celica does have quite stiff spings (for a road car) which accounts for the harsher ride at lower speed. The damper set-up on the car is firm, but excellently done. In regard to feeling it only at low speed, well that depends on the road itself.

You are quite right however, that real dampers react differently at low and high speed, usually slightly softer at higher speed due to the greater effect surface changes and bumps have on a car and its unsprung mass as speeds increase.👍

Regards

Scaff

 

[sucahyo]

Ok then, let me summarize, two option:
- Damper 10 is stiffer than 1, because hacked value is irrelevant it can give wrong result. Based from experience and feeling 10 is stiffer. Car jumps on 10 damper because the damper is way too stiff. Damper effect on tire visual is inconsistent and misleading in all GT. Visual in GT2 is wrong showing 40 (stiff) damper as slow pendulum motion.
- Damper 1 is stiffer than 10, because hacked value is relevant, will still be correct, extreme high damper is soft. Car jumps on 10 damper because the damper is too soft. Soft damper shown as wilder tire movement in all GT. Visual in GT2 is correct showing 40 (soft) damper as slow pendulum motion. Car rejump is reduced when using 1 damper, not 10.

Other consideration:
Sukerkin: Damper tuning is complex, increasing damper do not always result in more grip, after certain point it loose.
Team666: damper 10 reduce GT4 highspeed nodding more than 1.

Do you agree with this summary?

About my old bike, you are right.

 

[Scaff]

Ok then, let me summarize, two option:
- Damper 10 is stiffer than 1, because hacked value is irrelevant it can give wrong result. Based from experience and feeling 10 is stiffer. Car jumps on 10 damper because the damper is way too stiff. Damper effect on tire visual is inconsistent and misleading in all GT. Visual in GT2 is wrong showing 40 (stiff) damper as slow pendulum motion.
- Damper 1 is stiffer than 10, because hacked value is relevant, will still be correct, extreme high damper is soft. Car jumps on 10 damper because the damper is too soft. Soft damper shown as wilder tire movement in all GT. Visual in GT2 is correct showing 40 (soft) damper as slow pendulum motion. Car rejump is reduced when using 1 damper, not 10.

I think the two option you have detailed here appear to have summed it all up excellently.

Other consideration:
Sukerkin: Damper tuning is complex, increasing damper do not always result in more grip, after certain point it loose.
Team666: damper 10 reduce GT4 highspeed nodding more than 1.

Damper tuning is complex 👍 thats why we love it.

Do you agree with this summary?

I do indeed.

About my old bike, you are right.

LOL, it must be 'interesting to ride' wonder if its goingto be in TT


Regards

Scaff

 

[sucahyo]

Ok.

I must thank you all for convince me to use real life reference when tuning, because right now when I try to tune Elise GT in red rock valley, I can make the car not spinning on corner even with full throttle only with damper tuning (1/10 1/10). I will continue to use damper to correct car balance.

About TT, yes, it would be interesting .

 

[Scaff]

Ok.

I must thank you all for convince me to use real life reference when tuning, because right now when I try to tune Elise GT in red rock valley, I can make the car not spinning on corner even with full throttle only with damper tuning (1/10 1/10). I will continue to use damper to correct car balance.

About TT, yes, it would be interesting .

Sucahyo, glad you have found it useful, I'm sure everyone involved in this thread has found it useful and interesting (I know I have).

Good to see its helped you tame the Elise GT1 (a true monster of a car).

Regards

Scaff

 

[Badsight]

i have the PAL version of GT4

damper 8 is the standard setting after you have fitted race suspension

it is a weak , low-force damper setting that will compress & rebound faster than a lower number setting

the bigger the number - the faster the dampers react (weaker damping force)

the lower the number the stronger the damping force

 

[Mt. Lynx]

^No? The other way around, is it not?

 

[Scaff]

^No? The other way around, is it not?

It does make you wonder if anything from the last 6 pages has been read at all.

Regards

Scaff

 

[sukerkin]

ROFL - ... thinks of something insightful to say ... still thinking ... nope, ROFL will have to do I reckon .

It just goes to show tho', that the casual observation of suspension parameter behaviour in GT4 can easily lead you up the garden path.

 

[sucahyo]

i have the PAL version of GT4
damper 8 is the standard setting after you have fitted race suspension
it is a weak , low-force damper setting that will compress & rebound faster than a lower number setting
the bigger the number - the faster the dampers react (weaker damping force)
the lower the number the stronger the damping force

Just the comment I want to hear . Nice information, I am sure you are using visual, right?
Well, if you believe GT4 visual is done correctly then damper 10 is softer for you. If you trust your feeling then damper 1 is softer for you.
I believe PD competency more than my feeling, so I believe 10 is softer too.

 

[RXGem]

Just the comment I want to hear .

Just when you thought he was just about convinced, someone turns him..

 

[sucahyo]

Just when you thought he was just about convinced, someone turns him..

Oops, did I use the word wrongly again ? I mean to give him/her support, his choice means that he believe that GT4 damper effect on visual is correct ...........
I really like to hear what the people thought on GT4 damper visual, and he/she give me that . And he/she choose 10 is softer makes me happier .

 

[RXGem]

his choice means that he believe that GT4 damper effect on visual is correct. I really like to hear what the people thought on GT4 damper visual, and he/she give me that

Enough said..

 

[Badsight]

1

 

[Badsight]

equip a car with race suspension

neither the springs - nor the dampers will be set in the upper 80% of stiffness

by default they are still set low - the default setting is not extreme for the car you equip it to - almost all cars run damper setting 8 as default - this is a low damper force setting with 10 being the softest damper setting

meaning the dampers have a low resistance & respond quickly

lower the dampers from 8 down to 6 - you will notice your car bounce less over ripple strips - the dampers have more force & are controlling the springs up & down movement better

 

[Badsight]

bumps are handeled by the Springs

Dampers smooth out the springs movement

without dampers - your car will pogo up & down on its springs , Dampers are needed to control the springs - not to control bumps

low force damping means the springs can bounce up & down freely

high force damping means the springs are slowed in their reaction & movement

to slow your wheel Re-Bounding set a lower damper number

to slow your wheel Compressing set a lower damper number

the default setting 8 allows the car to bounce on its springs eaiser than a setting of 6 or 4 - lower damper numbers add damping force slowing the springs movement

its easy to see , test , & understand

 

[Badsight]

If the car is jumpy and twitchy, it´s because the springs and/or the damping is too hard. If it is too soft, the car will sway and the body slowly bounce up and down. Very present at 300+mph. It will also cause the undercarrige to it the pavement from time to time.

hard damping slows down the springs movement

soft damping allows the springs to move up & down fast

without dampers - the springs will be compressed by the wheel on a bump - then expand back out with full force , making the car bounce up & down like a pogo stick

dampers slow down the springs & make them work like they are supposed too

bouncing cars have strong springs & soft dampers

 

[sucahyo]

I think its better if you are not using visual analysis, remember that Scaff, Team666 and Sukerkin do not believe damper visual correctness, they suggesting not to use it. This mean we can't use car bouncing, wheel movement speed or range to explain the damper behaviour.
Maybe you can explain how the damper feel, something that I can't do..............

 

[Badsight]

ok

ride over some ripple strips at speed - look at how your car is reacting

"with soft dampers the springs will be allowed to bounce the car up & down more"

or

set what you think is Stiff dampers with soft springs & go into a corner hard - then set what you think is hard dampers with the same soft springs

the hard dampers will result in stiffer suspension

its easy to see - & its easy to test

im sorry if what i have typed out isnt easy to understand - i truely believe if you cannot explain something simply then you dont fully understand it yourself & i tried my best to put it as simply as i can

 

[sucahyo]

I see