GT4 Rally Physics?

[Gabkicks]

To set up the driving force pro for realistic steering, I changed the lock using DXtweak2 to 540 degrees. Then created a setup ingame, changed the steering settings ingame to 756°. cus the ingame steering ratio should be 1.4 of what your wheel turns. 👍 The developers made it like that for some weird reason.


In GT4, can we use paddles? For RBR, i use the paddles, and the shifter as a Handbreak. 👍 it feels really good. I mean, going through france with all those hairpins and no ebreak is slow.... unless you bias your breaks to the rear. which is not fun for some turns. and hurts balance.

 

[KSaiyu]

I had a revelation this weekend, and figured out the way to drive a rally car. It totally makes sense now. The key is to brake hard for the corner (using the gear indicator as a guide), using a little steering to get the car starting to turn, and then use full throttle the whole rest of the way, while pointing the steering wheel where you want to go, and no matter how bad it looks, just keep your foot to the floor. The idea is the keep all four wheels spinning at all times when you go around the corners, and the car will just launch itself as it straightens out.

Now I understand why modern rally cars are made to produce so much torque.

After I figured this out, I was able to beat most of the rally stages in special conditions hall, even Tahiti Maze when running against the Delta S4. (I was running the Evo VI rally car). I can now run 2:21:xxx consistently on Tahiti Maze with the Evo VI. (It does have the stage 3 turbo, but I'm not convinced it really helps. I tried the stage 4, but the loss of torque actually made the car much slower in the turns.)

I shared my knowledge with my friends this weekend, and after trying it, they agreed that this is the way rally cars are meant to be driven. Made for some pretty impressive-looking replays, too.

If you don't drive rally this way already, try it using either the Peugot 206, the Evo VI, or the Escort Rally cars, preferably on Tahiti Maze because once you get the hang of the 180s there, the other courses go much easier. (except for the ice/snow tracks)

I'll try this in GT4 then, although I disagree about it being realistic as if you did this with a real rally car you'd just head straight on under full braking, much like road racing in GT4 since there should be grip even on dirt/gravel.

In GT4, can we use paddles? For RBR, i use the paddles, and the shifter as a Handbreak. it feels really good. I mean, going through france with all those hairpins and no ebreak is slow.... unless you bias your breaks to the rear. which is not fun for some turns. and hurts balance.

hehe, I have it the other way - gear shift is for shifting while the paddles are my handbrake.

BTW, how exactly do you have you're steering ratio set-up - what should I pick under the steering options, and then under the steering ratio under tune car.

 

[Gabkicks]

well, for 540 like i said before. You'd use DXtweak2 to change detection to 540°. then youd have to go ingame and create a setup for whatever car your using, go into suspension/steering. and change the steering lock to 756. whatever you have ur wheel set to,, just multiply that number by 1.4, and thats what your ingame steering lock should be. ALso, if you decide to try out paddles, you should turn off that assist where it doesnt let you shift down when you want to because it just gets annoying.


You will hardly ever max lock if you use 540 so paddles are no problem. Its just awsome how realistic it feels. plus its fun to yank something instead of pressing a paddle.

 

[KSaiyu]

Ahhhh, in the PS2 options there is no number, only "bars" left and right to choose how much lock there is (that is if you choose extended under wheel settings). There is only a number for when you go into tune car and can set the ratio, so I suppose I'll have to guess what the lock is under options and multiply that by 1.4

 

[Gabkicks]

Ahhhh, in the PS2 options there is no number, only "bars" left and right to choose how much lock there is (that is if you choose extended under wheel settings). There is only a number for when you go into tune car and can set the ratio, so I suppose I'll have to guess what the lock is under options and multiply that by 1.4

Well, if ur using full 900 mode and it doesnt feel responsive set it higher, or if the other way, set it lower.

 

[Scaff]

I'll try this in GT4 then, although I disagree about it being realistic as if you did this with a real rally car you'd just head straight on under full braking, much like road racing in GT4 since there should be grip even on dirt/gravel.

If you use threshold braking in a rally car, regardless of the surface you would not lose control, it is possiable to brake hard and not slide. Its just IRL a very difficult balance to find, but the technique is sound.

If you can get hold of some in-car rally stage footage, lots of brake action, just very well controlled.

 

[KSaiyu]

If you use threshold braking in a rally car, regardless of the surface you would not lose control, it is possiable to brake hard and not slide. Its just IRL a very difficult balance to find, but the technique is sound.

If you can get hold of some in-car rally stage footage, lots of brake action, just very well controlled.

That's what I'm trying to say, they said that you should brake hard AND turn, whereas in real life you would just go forward as the tyres would either be locked up (as there is ABS in GT4) or the they would be using most of their grip to stop the car, unless I misinterpreted what they were meaning.

 

[Scaff]

That's what I'm trying to say, they said that you should brake hard AND turn, whereas in real life you would just go forward as the tyres would either be locked up (as there is ABS in GT4) or the they would be using most of their grip to stop the car, unless I misinterpreted what they were meaning.

The way I read it was as three seperate steps; brake, steer, power.

You can still mix the braking and sterring, but you would need to trail brake into the corner (reducing the brake force smoothly and gradually). Helps stop understeer and set the car up for the power. Takes a fair bit of skill, but it can and is done.

Guess only the original poster can confirm exactly what they were trying to say.

Good, subject however, I love the physics of racing.

 

[newbielives]

I think you are right on that. I could do that techique and power slide out of a corner on road courses in GT3 but in Richard Burns, tires lock up and there is no steering at all.

That's what I'm trying to say, they said that you should brake hard AND turn, whereas in real life you would just go forward as the tyres would either be locked up (as there is ABS in GT4) or the they would be using most of their grip to stop the car, unless I misinterpreted what they were meaning.

 

[meister_dan]

Good, subject however, I love the physics of racing.

Yeah.. I learn the GT4 way of rallying by reading this thread..

 

[neurokinetik]

The way I read it was as three seperate steps; brake, steer, power.

You can still mix the braking and sterring, but you would need to trail brake into the corner (reducing the brake force smoothly and gradually). Helps stop understeer and set the car up for the power. Takes a fair bit of skill, but it can and is done.

Guess only the original poster can confirm exactly what they were trying to say.

Good, subject however, I love the physics of racing.

You interpreted correctly. I trail brake into the corner, then go WOT as soon as the car starts to rotate.

You are right about the ABS, though... there is no way that I could brake as hard as I do in GT4 on dirt in a real car. Then again, when I was auto-xing my FWD car, that's exactly how I used to setup my corners. Full braking with the ABS working 100%, trail braking to get the car to start to rotate, then powering out of the turn. The differrence is that I could not go WOT until much later. In GT4 rally, the car has probably only rotated about 15 degrees from the approaching straight before I go WOT.

One thing to note, though, this is great for the sharper turns with long straights at the exit, but some parts of some of the courses,you will get too much rotation and too much speed, and overshoot your next turn, or worse, be facing entirely the wrong way when you get to it. The little kink at the bottom of Cathedral Rocks is a good example. Also there is a set of three linked turns that it is best to take with minimal to no drift at all.

As for paddles vs. regular shifter, I use the paddles exclusively. I keep my thumbs on top of the spokes at 3 and 9, so I never lose track of where they are, even in a very sharp turn.

 

[Gabkicks]

I'm only using paddles if the car actually comes with paddles, like F1 or rally cars though for GT4. Is the Handbreak still pretty much useless in gt4 like in gt3?

 

[KSaiyu]

I think you can set you're options to have the handbrake on the shifter or paddle, I'll have to double check.

hmmm, guess I should be glad they at least inlcuded rally in GT4, although I really can't see why they changed it IMO for the worse since GT4P - maybe to make drifter's more happy?

 

[neurokinetik]

I'm only using paddles if the car actually comes with paddles, like F1 or rally cars though for GT4.

I would, but on my DFP, the downshift is a bit too sensitive, and easy to hit by mistake, so I always use the paddles. I plan to relocate my shifter and redo it so that problem doesn't happen. I'll also add a real E-brake handle at that time. Seriously though, I can never understand how you can expect to be smooth driving with one hand on the wheel. I know I see significantly less tire wear than my friends (with everything else being equal) for that reason. But that is all for another thread...

 

[Gabkicks]

earlier steering work is key. plus learning to steer with ur footwork/throttle control is a little trick to not using so much steering work. If you keep the shifting of the weight at high tension shifting weight right (slightly different for each car).
I dont drive 1 handed most of the time, i just put my hand on shifter when i know i am about to shift.


many wayz to go fast.

 

[KSaiyu]

lol, the weight shifting feels stupid compared to GT4P, yet circuit driving is the complete opposite - it feels better in GT4.

 

[neurokinetik]

earlier steering work is key. plus learning to steer with ur footwork/throttle control is a little trick to not using so much steering work. If you keep the shifting of the weight at high tension shifting weight right (slightly different for each car).

Oh, I know that... my friends have asked me before why it is that I turn the steering wheel so much less than they do when I'm cornering, and it is for that exact reason: I am steering with the throttle. For rally though, I drive totally differently. I only feather the throttle in the corners that absolutely require it.

I was asking because this would help better determine when to shift.

Which could account for why I drive so differently in rally than on tarmac...

 

[MagpieRacer]

imo, gran turismo shud stick to tarmac, rallying sucks in a road racing game 👎

 

[Orukai]

I've played GT4P on a rally track, and I didn't like the car's reaction on gravel... :s

 

[animateria]

imo, gran turismo shud stick to tarmac, rallying sucks in a road racing game 👎

technically it is a driving simulator.... So it can put in anything that has to do with driving if it wants... (not that it will but that it can)

I wonder if KT and his crew actually drive in dirt or ice to test the physics on rally though...

 

[RexKwonDo]

technically it is a driving simulator.... So it can put in anything that has to do with driving if it wants... (not that it will but that it can)

I wonder if KT and his crew actually drive in dirt or ice to test the physics on rally though...

GT4 is a car collector simulator, not a driving simulator. An example of a driving sim is GTR for the PC. BTW, Invisble walls sux

Rallycross in GT4 is fun but i wish they had some water splashes and the Audi S1.

 

[Gabkicks]

Its ment to simulate the "Fun" of driving, getting to know your cars, and tuning them to race. Sure I'd like the cars to perform more realisticly... but its decent. GT4's a step up for consoles.. but the physics are still to soft for Hardcore pc sim fans to feel satisfied. Just about all of the cars feel incredibly easy to drive quickly ..

Enthusia is supposed to be a true Driving simulator and might actually draw the attention of PC gamers to consoles.. Less focus on tuning and more on the physics engine. PLus its got touge and cars can do donuts and whip around hairpin turns. 👍

 

[asparagus]

Hello, this is my first post although I've been "Lurking" for quite a while. I do NOT yet have GT4. I've perused most of the GT4 threads & used the "Search" function but cannot find an answer.

Has anyone ascertained if the "Rally Physics" are radically different from or similar to GT3? I DO have a Chinese version of GT4Prologue for comparison as well as GT3 of course. Thank You in advance.

All I have to say is: STUPID PENALTIES. Whenever you hit another car from behind, even if you tap him, you get a penalty. Whenever another driver hits you, you get a penalty, not them. I think that Sony really slipped up on this one in the rally races. I also think that the rally races seem more slippery (dirt races) than in GT3. You cannot do the whole turn the corner going 100mph anymore cause you will slide out to the outside of the turn. Even though they made the races harder, I do not believe that they are any better or worse. If it weren't for the penalties though, I would say that the rally races are better even if they were just trying to make it seem more realistic that if you slid off the track, you have to get back on it like in a real rally race. That would take time, and this may be why they made the penalties. Although, why would they have to do that on the road rally races???

 

[Gabkicks]

hm... sometimes all it takes is a tap to kill someone. I've never just tapped the AI or course barriers and gotten 5 second penalty. Its only when i smash into the wall or when the AI ramms me. I hardly ever touch the AI, i have gotten rough with the AI plenty of times and never gotten penalty. You really have to ramm em to get penalty in my experience. I hate it when the ai Breaks to late and rams into me, and i get penalty.