GT4 Tuning Guides - Part 2 added 22/03/06
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Scaff
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Glad to be of help 👍
Not a problem at all, as I have always said different set-ups suit different drivers, no one set-up will work for everyone. Its for that very reason I focused the guides on the effect of changes rather than saying that you must set a car up in such a way for such a track. For me the set-up I put together for the Caterham at Deep Forest was just right, I did try stiffer springs, but found it lead to issue riding the curbs and with understeer, but these are of course linked to my style of driving.
They did take a while to put together, so its always good to here that they are appreciated. Thanks 👍Your brakes and suspensions guide is really awesome, you've put a lot of time to it, I'm really impressed. I've got a lot of respect for you, right now the most in gtplanet.
Regards
Scaff
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Good work scaff, I have a question for you .what is Rigidity Refresher Plan ,I asked this , cause I notice some thing about that ,at first on Cizeta 16V
and I'm sure I bought all modification things,but after I played for a long time with this car, the Rigidity Refresher Plan is gone so I had bought it again ,and the other thing is Why is that thing gone away?
Regards
shangoob
and I'm sure I bought all modification things,but after I played for a long time with this car, the Rigidity Refresher Plan is gone so I had bought it again ,and the other thing is Why is that thing gone away?
Regards
shangoob
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- GTP_Duke
As cars age and are driven hard, the chassis loosens up. Parts fatigue, welds get hairline cracks, bolts loosen, etc. This lets the chassis/body flex more, which allows the suspension mounting points to move more, which causes unintended changes in the suspension geometry when the car is driven.
The Rigidity Refresher Plan is a refurbishment of the entire chassis to restore its original stiffness and shape. If you drive a car a lot you will need to do this. It should also be done to high-mileage used cars (which makes them a lot less of a bargain).
The Rigidity Refresher Plan is a refurbishment of the entire chassis to restore its original stiffness and shape. If you drive a car a lot you will need to do this. It should also be done to high-mileage used cars (which makes them a lot less of a bargain).
Scaff
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My personal choice is all driving aids set to zero.
Now that's the personal bit out of the way and lets look at each of them and see what they do.
TCS - The Traction Control system is the one driving aid that can be useful, in a nutshell it helps stop you losing traction, normally through helping to reduce wheelspin. It achieves this by reducing the throttle power when the driving tyres start to lose grip. If you find that you are having trouble getting a car off the line you may find that setting TCS to 1 or 2 may help.
ASM - Regardless of the flavour (under or oversteer) I would not personally recommend using either of these. The help to keep the car stable through applying the brakes to a selected corner and/or holding onto the power. They can help to reduce under or oversteer, but often at the expense of laptimes and the car can often feel very unpredictable, braking or applying the power when you don't expect it to.
These two videos illustrate what can happen, both feature a Formula GT car being driven in circles at the gymkhana. With ASM switched off, when the throttle is released the revs drop and the car slows. With ASM on when the throttle is released the car starts to push wide and to stop it the ASM holds onto the throttle and the car stays at an almost constant speed even with no throttle input at all.
ASM OFF
ASM ON
In short I don't recommend ASM at all, and TCS use I would keep to a minimum and only if you find you really need it.
Regards
Scaff
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thanks scaff for these information , but a week ago I tried to see what is the different between the two (AIDS
ff and on) by using the Cizeta 16V.at same tuning in mid-field track
when was AIDS off the best lap I done it was 1.03.xx (I'm not sure exactly)
but when I make AIDS on (as default ) I got less than three second
note:I used ghost to get best lap on both types (maybe my drive wasn't good I use analoug )
can you try it for me please,
Regards,
shangoob
ff and on) by using the Cizeta 16V.at same tuning in mid-field trackwhen was AIDS off the best lap I done it was 1.03.xx (I'm not sure exactly)
but when I make AIDS on (as default ) I got less than three second
note:I used ghost to get best lap on both types (maybe my drive wasn't good I use analoug )
can you try it for me please,
Regards,
shangoob
- 379
- Florissant, MO
When you get the hang of driving without aids, you probably won't notice a sharp decrease in your lap times. Honestly, that's the reason behind the aids: to make you a better driver. Switching them off is choice for "purists." Keeping them on is best for "tourists."
I ran the Sauber C9 around Sarthe 1 with aids on, and I got an uberlap of 3:09.195 bone-stock, oilchange, R3's all around. With aids off, the best I could manage was in the high 3:10's, so aids actually may help you go faster. Your mileage may vary, of course.
However, the biggest draw for turning off the aids was that the car handled far more consistently. When I let off the throttle, it tended to oversteer more, and when I pegged the throttle, it pushed. Just as it should. Aids destroy the natural handling characteristics of every car on which they are equipped, and attempt to make all cars handle the same.
The second biggest draw for switching off the driving aids (IN MY OPINION) is that it tends to make your tires last a bit longer. This isn't a function of the game, but rather a by-product of your learned throttle control. Once you become accustomed to controlling your throttle and brake input, you will notice that your tires can last a bit longer than they used to. You can also alter your driving/cornering strategies very slightly to wear your tires more consistently. Actually, I just did this earlier this week in the New York 200 enduro. My HSC's tires were wearing a bit faster in the back, so I altered my corner approach very slightly, and BOOM, they started wearing evenly!
Try doing that with ASM/TCS...
I said it in another forum (gamefaqs.com), and it bears repeating here: the most tuneable part of a car is the one that sits behind the wheel. Fail to adjust your driving, and no amount of suspension/aero/transmission tweaks will save you. The DRIVER is the most adjustable part, yet also the most ignored. If my lap times suck, I immediately start wanting to blame the transmission, the aero, the brakes, the suspension, when all the time it is actually the loose nut behind the wheel. Fit yourself to the car, NOT vice-versa. That is the key to fast laps, period.</rant>
I ran the Sauber C9 around Sarthe 1 with aids on, and I got an uberlap of 3:09.195 bone-stock, oilchange, R3's all around. With aids off, the best I could manage was in the high 3:10's, so aids actually may help you go faster. Your mileage may vary, of course.
However, the biggest draw for turning off the aids was that the car handled far more consistently. When I let off the throttle, it tended to oversteer more, and when I pegged the throttle, it pushed. Just as it should. Aids destroy the natural handling characteristics of every car on which they are equipped, and attempt to make all cars handle the same.
The second biggest draw for switching off the driving aids (IN MY OPINION) is that it tends to make your tires last a bit longer. This isn't a function of the game, but rather a by-product of your learned throttle control. Once you become accustomed to controlling your throttle and brake input, you will notice that your tires can last a bit longer than they used to. You can also alter your driving/cornering strategies very slightly to wear your tires more consistently. Actually, I just did this earlier this week in the New York 200 enduro. My HSC's tires were wearing a bit faster in the back, so I altered my corner approach very slightly, and BOOM, they started wearing evenly!
Try doing that with ASM/TCS...
I said it in another forum (gamefaqs.com), and it bears repeating here: the most tuneable part of a car is the one that sits behind the wheel. Fail to adjust your driving, and no amount of suspension/aero/transmission tweaks will save you. The DRIVER is the most adjustable part, yet also the most ignored. If my lap times suck, I immediately start wanting to blame the transmission, the aero, the brakes, the suspension, when all the time it is actually the loose nut behind the wheel. Fit yourself to the car, NOT vice-versa. That is the key to fast laps, period.</rant>
Scaff
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OK I've just got around to running lap times with and without aids, I used the first car to hand, which happened to be a Lancer Evo GSR '92 (I've had to restart GT4 on the PS3) and picked a track I know well to ensure that is not a factor, so used Deep Forest.
For me using default driving aids resulted in slower lap times by 2.8 seconds, I found the car with aids to be very predictable in doing less than I wanted it to do. In particular the turn in around the complex (after the first hairpin) was more difficult due to the cars reluctance to turn in as sharply as it would without aids. Corner exit was also an issue with the slower corners, the driving aids making it more difficult to feed the power on quite as quickly as I would like. The most significant corner was the last one, I always take this aggressively as the camber helps keep you on track, turn in late and hard keeping the power on and let momentum carry you to the outside of the track. With aids on this was impossible to do, without aids the car did exactly what I asked it to do.
Its a simply choice for me personally, I can't stand the driving aids, they slow me down in most situations (and certainly over an entire lap) and make the car far less controllable.
Regards
Scaff
For me using default driving aids resulted in slower lap times by 2.8 seconds, I found the car with aids to be very predictable in doing less than I wanted it to do. In particular the turn in around the complex (after the first hairpin) was more difficult due to the cars reluctance to turn in as sharply as it would without aids. Corner exit was also an issue with the slower corners, the driving aids making it more difficult to feed the power on quite as quickly as I would like. The most significant corner was the last one, I always take this aggressively as the camber helps keep you on track, turn in late and hard keeping the power on and let momentum carry you to the outside of the track. With aids on this was impossible to do, without aids the car did exactly what I asked it to do.
Its a simply choice for me personally, I can't stand the driving aids, they slow me down in most situations (and certainly over an entire lap) and make the car far less controllable.
Regards
Scaff
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Mister Scaff, sir, excellent guides. And I love that photo of the green Tuscan at the end of part 1. Sexy.
One thing I might add: I have found is cars that are particularly twitchy under brakes seem to respond well to what I call 'weight transfer damping'.
An example: pick one of the fast RUFs. My fully tuned BTR is a fun car, but taking it to the 'ring got me wanting to throw my DFP across the room (which is pretty tough, since it's attached to a custom made kitchen worktop table.)
So I though about it logically. I have set this car up quite soft to cope with the odd kerb-hop and all the bumps at the 'ring. This militated against hard braking over unstable surfaces, most especially the flat out crest before the high-speed left hander (Schwedenkreuz) in the first quarter of the track. Here, the big butt of the RUF would overtake the nose every time, and try as I might to dial it out with brake balance, it wouldn't go - that big lump of an engine pitching up as the nose of the car dives over the crest = disaster. I got around it mostly by left-foot braking and then gently lifting off the throttle when the brakes are fully applied.
What would happen, I mused, if I made the suspension slower to transfer weight over this crest. So, I set rear rebound to 10, and front bounce to 10... and rear bounce and front rebound to 6. Low and behold, a little stability at last! A further half an hour twiddling, and my previously very hairy 650hp BTR became an absolute hoot to throw around the 'ring with all it's humps and bumps in the wrong places.
I have applied the same principle to a number of rear- and mid-engined cars, and it works very well (for me) allowing the cars to be much more 'chuckable' into corners from various lines (useful while racing) and still maintaining the grip and balance needed to get the corner exit attitude I desire.
V.
One thing I might add: I have found is cars that are particularly twitchy under brakes seem to respond well to what I call 'weight transfer damping'.
An example: pick one of the fast RUFs. My fully tuned BTR is a fun car, but taking it to the 'ring got me wanting to throw my DFP across the room (which is pretty tough, since it's attached to a custom made kitchen worktop table.)
So I though about it logically. I have set this car up quite soft to cope with the odd kerb-hop and all the bumps at the 'ring. This militated against hard braking over unstable surfaces, most especially the flat out crest before the high-speed left hander (Schwedenkreuz) in the first quarter of the track. Here, the big butt of the RUF would overtake the nose every time, and try as I might to dial it out with brake balance, it wouldn't go - that big lump of an engine pitching up as the nose of the car dives over the crest = disaster. I got around it mostly by left-foot braking and then gently lifting off the throttle when the brakes are fully applied.
What would happen, I mused, if I made the suspension slower to transfer weight over this crest. So, I set rear rebound to 10, and front bounce to 10... and rear bounce and front rebound to 6. Low and behold, a little stability at last! A further half an hour twiddling, and my previously very hairy 650hp BTR became an absolute hoot to throw around the 'ring with all it's humps and bumps in the wrong places.
I have applied the same principle to a number of rear- and mid-engined cars, and it works very well (for me) allowing the cars to be much more 'chuckable' into corners from various lines (useful while racing) and still maintaining the grip and balance needed to get the corner exit attitude I desire.
V.
Rotary Junkie
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You did well on this, Scaff. Very well.
However, I need a little advice on something. *makes thread*
However, I need a little advice on something. *makes thread*
- 47
I don't get the mph per 1,000 rpm
Scaff
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What part of it is causing a problem? If you can let me know I will see if I can help.
Vince
Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad the guides have been useful.
👍
Scaff
This is great i tuned my first skyline with these guidelines and its a rocket!
- 1
Sorry for the dumb question but where in GT4 do I go to make the settings changes? I see all kinds of info/suggestions on this board but don't know where to implement them in the GT4 program.
Thanks Scaff I Have A Fully Tuned
Subaru IMPREZA Wagon STi Version.VI'99
Fully Modified Managed To Change The Gear Ratios For Up To 235.24MPH With Nitrous Oxide but would you be able to tell me a more effective Gear Ratio I Aim To Reach 250MPH at least
Subaru IMPREZA Wagon STi Version.VI'99
Fully Modified Managed To Change The Gear Ratios For Up To 235.24MPH With Nitrous Oxide but would you be able to tell me a more effective Gear Ratio I Aim To Reach 250MPH at least
Hi
My first post, trying to set up my Celica GT4 st205 but it keeps under steering no matter what I try
Reckon the answer will be in your tuning guides but I've tried downloading the links on the first page but whenever I open them it comes up with a fault message.
Says not a supported file or may be damaged. I have the latest Adobe installed.
Any advice or help you can give?
Many thanks, I'll keep reading other arcticles to try find out how to sort the Celica GT4,s handling.
Cheers
My first post, trying to set up my Celica GT4 st205 but it keeps under steering no matter what I try
Reckon the answer will be in your tuning guides but I've tried downloading the links on the first page but whenever I open them it comes up with a fault message.
Says not a supported file or may be damaged. I have the latest Adobe installed.
Any advice or help you can give?
Many thanks, I'll keep reading other arcticles to try find out how to sort the Celica GT4,s handling.
Cheers
Scaff
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- ScaffUK
Hi
My first post, trying to set up my Celica GT4 st205 but it keeps under steering no matter what I try
Reckon the answer will be in your tuning guides but I've tried downloading the links on the first page but whenever I open them it comes up with a fault message.
Says not a supported file or may be damaged. I have the latest Adobe installed.
Any advice or help you can give?
Many thanks, I'll keep reading other arcticles to try find out how to sort the Celica GT4,s handling.
Cheers
I'm not sure what the problem is, but I am fairly sure its not with the .pdfs; I've just downloaded and opened them on two different PCs and they were fine for me (both running the latest version of Adobe). The only other thing I can suggest is that you try on another machine.
Regards
Scaff
- 1
link doesn't work
Scaff
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link doesn't work
I've just checked both links and they appear to be working fine, what you might want to try is left clicking on the link to open it in your browser window and you will then (once its fully opened) be able to save it to your PC.
Regards
Scaff
