GT4 vs Enthusia vs GT-R

  • Thread starter luchi
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After playing GT4 for some time now, I've recently had the chance to play 2 other driving/racing games, Enthusia Professional Racing (PS2) & GT-R (PC). Each of these games is worth looking at for a number of reasons. I just wanted to make a brief comparison between these games and GT4 in a number of areas.

Cars
In terms of numbers, GT4 will always win, with something in the range of 700 cars, even if many of those are variations on similar models (20+ Nissan Skylines for example). Enthusia has around 200 or so and each game does an excellent job of representing a wide range of automotive styles and technology. GT-R in comparison has something in the region of 16 or so cars, with others possibly on the way due to downloadable content and the mod community. Its worth also pointing out that GT-R is based on the FIA GT license, meaning all vehicles are race ready models, whereas Turismo & Enthusia combine race cars with ordinary consumer road models.

1. GT4
2. Enthusia
3. GT-R

Tracks
GT4 & Enthusia each feature a wide range of tracks, with track design and visual quality high, although GT4 beats Enthusia in comparisons between track quality with tracks that feature in both games. Some credit should go to Enthusia though, which features a range of original tracks that are good looking and interesting to look at, such as the Rev City course. GT-R features fewer tracks and in comparison, the visuals for these tracks suffer. Track numbers are being boosted however, once again thanks to the mod community. It is already possible to download more tracks than actually shipped with the game originally. Visual quality of these differs but I've already found excellent tracks online, either original or interpretations of real tracks.

1. GT4
2. Enthusia
3. GT-R

Driving
When it comes down to the driving experience itself, both GT4 and GT-R are very easy to define. Enthusia however, appears to be stuck in the middle, not sure of whether its an arcade or sim styled racer. Sometimes it feels like it wants to emulate aspects of realism whilst simultaneously dumbing down other aspects of driving. GT4 & GT-R can be made as easy or as difficult to drive as you like, with GT4 being the easier of the two, whilst GT-R is undoubtedly the tougher. However, in both games there is a great deal of satisfaction that comes from driving the cars, which can even be experienced when driving on an empty track. Whilst this experience in GT4 means you'll be shaving fractions of a second off lap records within minutes of play, GT-R instead sees you spending potentially hours getting to know each car before maximising their performance. From my own personal point of view, I prefer the level of difficulty that can be found in GT-R. I can make the game as challenging as I like, whereas attempting to do the same in GT4 reveals what feels like a layer of simplicity that stops things from getting too challenging. However, I understand many may be put off by GT-R. In that regard I can only suggest that people give it a try. The fact that the game can be made as simple as GT4 to drive means that its not beyond the reach of the casual gamer.

1. GT-R
2. GT4
3. Enthusia

Racing
If there's one area where GT4 suffers, this is it. GT4 suffers bad. The pleasure from driving a car on an empty track on GT4 is replaced with frustration and a feeling of simplicity when racing AI drivers. AI drivers in GT4 are completely unaware of your presence on track, so races are in effect against ghost cars, albeit ghost cars with collision. This is terrible, as it results in a train of cars bumping each other around the track. This issue is made worse when looking at elements of the game structure, where its seemingly impossible for the player to enter a competitive race. Either the player has a car thats too powerful, or the AI does. The close racing that players may (if their lucky) experience during the first hour of play quickly evaporates when they access cars with more power.

Enthusia on the other hand improves upon GT4 in many ways. First of all, the AI drivers are fully aware of your presence and will take steps to deal with you, whether is shutting the door in your face when you try to overtake, or keeping clear of you as you dangerously try to outrbrake them into a corner. In addition, an odds system means that players can gauge the level of difficulty in a race before they enter it, as well as rewarding players who win difficult races more than those you race against easy opposition. In addition, a penalty system deducts points from the player when they run wide, hit walls or make contact with AI cars. The game wants you to race cleanly and rewards you for doing so, whereas the racing in GT4 can feel about as authentic as that in Destruction Derby at times.

However, GT-R emerges the victor in this area, by doing many of the things that Enthusia does, as well as including a range of player tailorable options allowing gamers to balance the racing perfectly to suit their ability. Whether its a full range of driving aids, novice AI or invulnerability, its easy to fine tune the game to suit your skill level. And when you do get on track, the racing is exceptional, with AI drivers demonstrating their awareness of both the player and other drivers, drafting you, outbraking you or trying to close off overtaking opportunities. I've lost count of the times I've gone round corners side by side with AI drivers, or made them take a difficult line through a corner, watching their car lose enough exit speed allowing me to pull clear.

1. GT-R
2. Enthusia
3. GT4

Overall
After spending a reasonable amount of time with each game, I believe that GT-R is the best of them, taking into consideration my abilities and my preferred style of driving/racing. GT4 is exceptional in many areas but falls flat in the same areas that blighted the game when it debuted something like 7 years ago. Its nothing short of criminal that the AI has not evolved one jot since players first experienced "The Real Driving Simulator" on their PSX, back when John Major was Prime Minister.

Whilst I would rate Enthusia at the bottom of this pile, it is with some hope for future iterations of the series. They've got lots of cars, they've got lots of tracks and the AI is doing a good job. But its the core experience of driving the car itself that needs to be improved. At times it can feel like a simulation, at others like a bad Ridge Racer clone. This area needs improvement, not the acqusition of more licenses, before it can compete against the Turismo series.

But for me, GT-R ranks first here. It doesnt have the visuals, nor does it have the number of cars or tracks but it has the best driving model by far, as well as exceptional racing. Whether your spending an afternoon driving a Ferrari 360 on an empty Spa Francorchamps, or pitting your Porsche GT in a 30 car race around Monza, it delivers the best overall experience.

Rookie players should not be put off. With a controller (a wheel isnt essential) and a play through the various difficulty levels and simulation modes, anyone would be able to find a balance that suits them, whether you play Burnout or Grand Prix Legends.

Try it and you won't look back.

1. GT-R
2. GT4
3. Enthusia
 
Totally agree mate, glad someone had the balls to say it on here too. As I understood it Enthusia was supposed to be more realistic than GT4 though..? Haven't played Enthusia but have used my Driving Force wheel on GTR and have to agree, it is so hard it makes me want to cry, I love it! Thought GTR looks the best of the lot though, I'm running on a quick PC though...
 
Having played GT-R myself before GT4 was released, I would have to agree with most of what you said.....GT-R is, without a doubt seems to be better in most areas ..i.e car damage, can blow your engine with over revving, Motec and the ability to track and even watch live races via the web without having to actually be in a race.
 
Luchi, is your impression of Enthusia based on the retail version of the game, or is the demo or other version?

Is Enthusia (retail) released in Japan already? It is scheduled to be March 17th (today).
 
Luchi, questions on the retail version of Enthusia:

1) Does it support the DFP's 900 degree mode?
2) Is it 60 frame per seconds?
3) Is the graphics better, equal or worst than GT4?
4) Does it support HDTV resolution?

Thanks.
 
supergoop
Luchi, questions on the retail version of Enthusia:

1) Does it support the DFP's 900 degree mode?
2) Is it 60 frame per seconds?
3) Is the graphics better, equal or worst than GT4?
4) Does it support HDTV resolution?

Thanks.

Hi,

I've got a Japanese retail version of the game.

Answer to your questions: -

1. Don't know about the wheel support but I've seen video that suggests it does
2. 60fps at all times with no slowdown at all. None of that NTSC GT4 stuttering either
3. I think ultimately GT4 is the better looking game, although Enthusia does some nice stuff. Some of the Enthusia original environments are really nice. Comparing Tsukuba or Nordschiefe though, GT4 is the clear winner
4. Don't think so but don't hold me to that.
 
There is a good review from the japan release of Enthusia over here at the PS2 forums of GTP. Widescreen and HDTV are not supported. The biggest downfall yet.
 
Looks like I'll be checking out this GT-R. Being PC based, does it have moddable content and a community that is adding additional cars or tracks?
 
Kolyana
Looks like I'll be checking out this GT-R. Being PC based, does it have moddable content and a community that is adding additional cars or tracks?

The mod community seems to be supporting it rather well. I may be wrong but from what I've heard, the dev team originally did a GT mod for EA's PC F1 games and have since developed it into a full standalone game, based on similar technology.

As a result, the hundreds of mods that were made for EA's F1 games (most notably Career Challenge) are being converted in one form or another over to GT-R. With regards to tracks, I've already downloaded: -

Nur
  • Nurburgring Nordschliefe
  • Laguna Seca
  • Suzuka
  • Imola
  • Indianapolis
  • Hockenheim (old and new)
  • Long Beach
  • Le Mans

and there's plenty more. In addition, people have been creating skins for the existing cars (I've got a great set for the Lotus Elise, each based on the Lotus F1 liveries over the years, such as Camel yellow, & JPS black and gold) and you can get hold of car setups, replays and all sorts more.

Great stuff.
 
luchi
The mod community seems to be supporting it rather well. I may be wrong but from what I've heard, the dev team originally did a GT mod for EA's PC F1 games and have since developed it into a full standalone game, based on similar technology.

As a result, the hundreds of mods that were made for EA's F1 games (most notably Career Challenge) are being converted in one form or another over to GT-R. With regards to tracks, I've already downloaded: -

Nur
  • Nurburgring Nordschliefe
  • Laguna Seca
  • Suzuka
  • Imola
  • Indianapolis
  • Hockenheim (old and new)
  • Long Beach
  • Le Mans

and there's plenty more. In addition, people have been creating skins for the existing cars (I've got a great set for the Lotus Elise, each based on the Lotus F1 liveries over the years, such as Camel yellow, & JPS black and gold) and you can get hold of car setups, replays and all sorts more.

Great stuff.


I was also thinking of buying a Logitech DFP, which works with a PC, so it could kill two birds with one stone right here and invest in the game also. That's the beauty of PC gaming ... awesome mod communities for some titles. Heck, if it's got a track builder, that's an incentive to get a game straight away.

It is probably worth mentioning (incidentally, great write up in post one), that ONLINE play with any game is a factor and something that was woeful in GT4; like AI, you would have expected them to make some advances in this regard by now.

I believe that I played the German version of GT-R and was struck by its graphics (I have a good card, I admit) and general feel ... it was a nice game. Of course, having an interface in German (and not speaking that language) was somewhat of a hinderance and I moved onto GT4.

Oh yes, I remember now, I practiced and practiced on one of the starting tracks until I was somewhat happy with my laptimes ... and then I entered a race and got absolutely DESTROYED by the opposition :P
 
RexKwonDo
Anyone know when GT-R comes out? Is it out?

A German version has been out for some time. The English version (In the UK) was released last Friday.

Nice having the whole thing in English, finally.

It cost me around £24 from www.play.com.

Shop around, you might find it even cheaper.
 
This really does beg the question:

What is Polyphony Digital's problem with AI? If so many other developers have such a good handle on it, what in the world is holding Kaz and Company back?
 
luchi
After spending a reasonable amount of time with each game,

Well, my copy shipped on 15th, let's say you have UPS shipping, then you probably got it today... so perhaps playing the game longer than 3 hours or so would be a " reasonable amount of time" . Nevertheless a nice comparison of these three games...
 
Zardoz
This really does beg the question:

What is Polyphony Digital's problem with AI? If so many other developers have such a good handle on it, what in the world is holding Kaz and Company back?

If I had to take a guess I would say the hardware.

Its almost become a bit of a Gran Turismo curse, we all expect the series to look as good as possiable with a well developed physics model; and thats what we get.

The downside is that the PS2 simply does not have the ability to do all that and run complex (i.e. good) AI routines. If you take a look at the PS2 games with better AI than the GT series, for example Toca Race Driver 1 & 2 and Enthusia, generally some other area suffers.

All three of these games are more basic graphically (particularly the Race Driver series) and have more basic physics models (TRD 1 was shocking in this area).

The PS2 is an old piece of kit now and is never going to be able to give us all we want.

You should note that my comments on Enthusia are based on videos I have seen and luchi's review. However I still think I will give Enthusia a go when it get a PAL launch (already got GT-R).
 
Max_DC
Well, my copy shipped on 15th, let's say you have UPS shipping, then you probably got it today... so perhaps playing the game longer than 3 hours or so would be a " reasonable amount of time" . Nevertheless a nice comparison of these three games...


A German version has been out for some time.

:)
 
I will definately look for GT-R. As a former league racer for the Nascar Racing 2003 Season (PC) I can tell you that the mod community will make games like this better than any console game could ever be. I have skinned numerous cars quickly and easily using paint programs. People will release mods with different car models (any that you can think of) and it will just be crazy. Race any track you want, any car that you want, etc. There will be hundreds of track options... You can skin your car and other racers in your leagues will be able to download it and you'll all have custom race paint. It will be awesome!!!

Here are some examples of the skins etc. you can make for PC racing games.

Marlboro Scheme I made for a friend by request:


Motorola Scheme I made for another friend:


Sauber-inspired Mustang Cobra skins I made for a road racing mod:
nr2003ss0013nc.jpg

The picture quality is not great, but it's cool to illustrate how you and a friend can be on a racing "team". Really nice concept. Note the custom skinned pit crews in the background.


PC games have a LOT of potential if they're mod-friendly... :D
 
Is there any link to GT-R? I'm totally ignorant about PC games and I want to learn more.

thanks.

Luchi 👍 👍 (do you do any "real driving" too??)
 
dolande
Is there any link to GT-R? I'm totally ignorant about PC games and I want to learn more.

thanks.

Luchi 👍 👍 (do you do any "real driving" too??)

GT-R The Game

Taken from gogamer.com. I'm trying to find a US Release date, though I'll settle for an import English version...

Features
Original FIA GT Series cars and courses. 3 playing modes for newcomers, experienced players and simulation pros including intense multiplayer action.

Real racing teams featuring over 70 race cars, including the Porsche 911, Viper GTS-R, BMW Z3 M and Ferrari 550 Maranello.

Highly realistic opponent AI giving a total race experience! Dynamic weather changes during the race.

Unrestricted game save and reload function. MOTEC Analysis Software, GTR uses the analysis software used by real racing teams.

Based on real-life FIA GT team telemetry data. Live Track Technology: course conditions change as the race progresses.

:drool:
 
I've been playing GT4 for quite some time (about 50% through), and just picked up retail version of Enthusia today. Been playing Enthusia for a few hours, and have to say I am quite disappointed.

I was expecting Enthusia to be a realistic driving simulator, but actually it's more like an arcade game. There are a few things I like about Enthusia compared to GT4, but those "few things" aren't even close to enough.

Since everyone here already has their own opinion about GT4, I'll just stick to my impression of Enthusia from here (with a comparison to GT4)

Graphics: Arcade graphics, not even close to GT4
Track Quality: Arcade, big difference is the Ring compared to GT4
Driving: Arcade, no feel, minimal feedback, unrealistic physics (I used to race)
Racing: Good, AI cars seem better than GT4, cars are closely matched
Sound: Not sure yet...car sounds seem better than GT4 but not all of them
Times: More realistic than GT4

Overal, I think Enthusia is very much an arcadish type game compared to GT4. Although I don't think GT4 is that realistic either, but it's a hell of a lot more realistic than Enthusia. The races in Enthusia are more fun because the cars seem to be more closely matched and the AI cars aren't as stupid as GT4 cars. I think Enthusia has some plus points in that regard, but I put a lot of weight on how the driving feels, and I have to say I'm quite dissapointed in that area because Enthusia feels very much like another arcade game to me. GT4 has it's flaws, but I can relate to the driving dynamics in GT4 compared to real life racing.
 
I went to get GT-R when it was released but none of the chops had it. Either i got the wrong date or they were too busy getting GT4 in. I have played the demo of GT-R and it rocks, i love the fact that its difficult to even complete a fast lap without spinning or making some kind of mistake.
 
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