GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[kinigitt]

I can't understand why so many users give Cobra such a big "show-stage" here in this thread.

I would prefer that the discussion will get back on a level, where FACTS of the different games are decisive for the "posting-behaviour", and not just rumours added with a very stubborn behaviour.

yeah that would be swell wouldn't it?

too bad it isn't going to happen.

 

[rockwilder]

Who the hell is Ruf CTR and why does he have to be a bi#@$ A@$ muthaf@#%!@

 

[TriplePlay]

ignore

 

[98cobra]

ignore

That's the best way to deal with it. 👍

 

[rockwilder]

Yo I ain't after ya'll so mind yo own unless ya'll want to be next in line

 

[rockwilder]

You know I'll be nice about this but don't get me upset I'll be nice and everything to ya'll. so to be nice wassup

 

[kinigitt]

You know I'll be nice about this but don't get me upset I'll be nice and everything to ya'll. so to be nice wassup

ummm...word?

 

[code_kev]

rockwilder, while talking a "homie" is cool on official ps2 forums, english is the prefered language here. thanks, I mean "word"

 

[TriplePlay]

Yo I ain't after ya'll so mind yo own unless ya'll want to be next in line

That's against the AUP and TOS. uze ur brain b4 u pozt yo homie g

And 98cobra: haha yes it is the best way to deal, but I made a terrible post and decided to delete it

 

[tha_con]

this thread had degreaded a lot...it's almost unenjoyable.

Anyway.

Forza will be good, but too little is actually KNOWN about it, only what's been SAID. Speaking about what will be in a game, is different from what will be in a game, and how it will react...would anyone argue?

GT4 looks good, plays well, and has a lot of testimony to back it up.

Forza is on it's first try, and there are always things to learn from the first go round, they will improve the series, but this will not be the ground breaking race sim, it will be for xbox, but across the boards it will not.

GTR
GT4
Forza
Enthusia

IMO, this is how the SIM ranking of these games will be. Now everyone can preach about car damage all they want, but point is this.

We are talking about DRIVING SIMULATORS. Not Crashing Simulators. Not Tire Marks Simulators. And not Body Kit Simulators. Whatever. While these are good features, and have some value, the focus of a driving simulator should always be physics first and foremost, rather than the additional features that cater to the call of the casual audience.

If anyone disagrees and has valid points I'm more than happy to debate, however I would appreciate that fan boy centered comments not be posted, i.e. something Front would post...as much credit as some peole give him, he often mis quotes, come across with extremely fanboyish statements, and rarely backs up his arguements...so anyone intelligent and willing please step up, I need good conversation.

 

[WhIteDrAgOn]

Wait lemme ask the Forza fans this, would u want to be driving and your wheels fall off, worrying about the law of physics of ur a little kid not knowing what the hell you are doing in the game, or play a game that no parts fall off, everything easy to customize, and having more cars to choose from......I do think the XBOX have better grafix, but it cost u alot to play online for a year.......but the PS2 has alot better games than the XBOX.

 

[kinigitt]

IMO, this is how the SIM ranking of these games will be. Now everyone can preach about car damage all they want, but point is this.

We are talking about DRIVING SIMULATORS. Not Crashing Simulators. Not Tire Marks Simulators. And not Body Kit Simulators. Whatever. While these are good features, and have some value, the focus of a driving simulator should always be physics first and foremost, rather than the additional features that cater to the call of the casual audience.

If anyone disagrees and has valid points I'm more than happy to debate, however I would appreciate that fan boy centered comments not be posted, i.e. something Front would post...as much credit as some peole give him, he often mis quotes, come across with extremely fanboyish statements, and rarely backs up his arguements...so anyone intelligent and willing please step up, I need good conversation.

oh come on, this thread is fun. You love it.

Seriously, I don't remember the Devs side-stepping the physics to talk up the dress up part of the game. They're just trying to sell it. I don't see them scrapping features; they just seem to be stacking them on.

It could end up playing like ****, I wouldn't know.

I just admire their attitude and their willingness to rise to the challenge. So I'm giving the game a shot.

 

[code_kev]

Wait lemme ask the Forza fans this, would u want to be driving and your wheels fall off, worrying about the law of physics of ur a little kid not knowing what the hell you are doing in the game, or play a game that no parts fall off, everything easy to customize, and having more cars to choose from......I do think the XBOX have better grafix, but it cost u alot to play online for a year.......but the PS2 has alot better games than the XBOX.

Even cobras posts make more sense then this. At least he has a fanboyish motive, all I see here is garbage.

WhiteDragon, are you 10?

You clearly have no idea on the subject what so ever, so I advise you to go to a sims 2 forum.

 

[kinigitt]

Wait lemme ask the Forza fans this, would u want to be driving and your wheels fall off, worrying about the law of physics of ur a little kid not knowing what the hell you are doing in the game, or play a game that no parts fall off, everything easy to customize, and having more cars to choose from......I do think the XBOX have better grafix, but it cost u alot to play online for a year.......but the PS2 has alot better games than the XBOX.

Get a grip. 90 bucks CDN (that's like 60 bucks U.S.) for a year subscription, 1 full game (or 2 demos) and a headset.

the price of 1 and a half games, or 1 and a half month's worth of high-speed internet.

 

[code_kev]

Or free if you use xbox connect

 

[kinigitt]

Or free if you use xbox connect

does xbconnect have chat?

If Halo 2 weren't coming out, I would let my subscription wind down (it's out in November) and try out this Xbconnect, but...well...Halo 2 is Halo 2.

*whips out credit card.

 

[code_kev]

yes it does

 

[98cobra]

That's against the AUP and TOS. uze ur brain b4 u pozt yo homie g

And 98cobra: haha yes it is the best way to deal, but I made a terrible post and decided to delete it

 

[erahk64]

A new Forza preview. For some reason I can't read it but according to quotes from the preview in a another forum it contains some new info I have not seen before.

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3134178&did=5



.

 

[yeti]

A new Forza preview. For some reason I can't read it but according to quotes from the preview in a another forum it contains some new info I have not seen before.

http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3134178&did=5



.

In order to rock the system, sometimes you need to topple a king. The creative types behind Forza Motorsport, Microsoft's ambitious real-world driving simulator, know this to be true—which is why, during a recent interview, nobody flinches when they're popped with the inevitable question: Can Forza be a Gran Turismo 4 slayer? Although both games reside on different game consoles, the comparison is, nonetheless, apple-to-apple.

"We're all huge fans of the Gran Turismo series," Garrett Young, lead program manager for Microsoft's racing studio, says, who dances modestly around why Forza—and not Gran Turismo—is what the world is really waiting for. "We don't want to show disrespect to [Polyphony Digital] because most of us got into racing games through GT. But they haven't brought anything new to the [genre] in a while. Adding more cars to your roster doesn't make it a new game. Just a bigger game."

Rolling start
Big, bad words from an as-of-yet unknown quantity, to be sure, but one look under the hood of Microsoft's two-year-old baby and it's easy to see why Young and his team are so confident about Forza.

The game is a photographic assault on both the senses and the imagination. Every conceivable aspect of simulating mass and velocity on four rubber tires has been painstakingly—nay, academically—reproduced for the most sophisticated driving experience available on consoles. "There are three core things we aim to deliver with Forza," Young explains. "Realistic graphics, [simulation] physics, and car ownership and customization."

In the background, a looping demo of the game on a nearby monitor puts amazing visuals to Young's spoken words, playing real-time, in-game footage that could easily be mistaken for prerendered intro FMV from lesser racing titles.

With Forza's stark, almost conservative graphical realism, Young and his team focus less on aesthetic style, exploring instead the invisible complexity of seemingly empty race environments—like the dusty, serpentine hills of Laguna Seca. "The track is a quarter of the screen, so we wanted to make it look as realistic as possible. This is how Laguna Seca looks." Young says, pointing out dynamic skid marks where certain opponents have run off course, as well as paint streaks left on walls from careless vehicles.

What isn't visible at a glance, of course, are the subtle details that play as big a role as any physical hairpin corner; exact details such as road incline, slope, moisture, heat, and width all play crucial roles in the overall feel of a particular circuit.

Picture perfect
But for most gamers who haven't personally thrown two tons of steel around a real-life track at suicidal speeds, eye candy and visual resemblance will have to suffice. Here too, Forza does not disappoint. Roadside embellishments feature copious amounts of geometry and a natural sense of grace, while off in the distance, the game stretches effortlessly to the horizon, with zero object pop-up in sight.

"We're also doing full-screen anti-aliasing," Dan Greenawalt, Forza's lead game designer and resident car freak, chimes, about the game's ability to present sharp, graphical clarity without jagged lines. "We're huge fans of Gran Turismo, but its graphics [are jaggy] like there's no tomorrow. That's something we really wanted to address."

Finally, there's the issue of framerates (or fps: frames per second), the measure of how smooth and responsive a game feels—a technicality glossed over by most casual gamers. For example, the general consensus on Project Gotham Racing 2 is that despite its arcade-like physics, the game handles like a champ. End of discussion. But many hardcore racing fans have criticized Gotham for displaying only 30fps (as opposed to the 60fps standard set by Gran Turismo 3 on PlayStation 2). "With antialiasing and the customization options, we couldn't do everything," Greenawalt admits. "It was a trade-off, but we've made up for [Forza's] 30fps by polling [the controller] three times as often for, technically, 180fps handling. In terms of handling, you are right where you need to be."

Substance abuse
But beyond just framerates, how a racing game feels is largely decided by the complexity (or simplicity) of its physics engine. As the conversation turns toward physics—the heart of what makes Forza truly different from anything in its class—Greenawalt reaches over to his shelf (stocked with racing games of all origins) and pulls out two fat physics textbooks written by guys in lab coats who, presumably, were as obsessed with the intersection between car, rubber, and asphalt as Greenawalt and his team.

"From these books, we get formulas that 'automagically' crunch numbers from real car data for very accurate performance in the game," Greenawalt says. "Actually, when we were trying to prove our physics engine, a certain Ferrari felt like it was a bit dangerous to drive. We thought there was something wrong with our engine until I read a negative review from Road and Track magazine that also echoed the understeer in our physics model."

The amount of car-related reference material that Greenawalt's team has to input, tune, and cross-check is staggering. Forza will feature more than 200 real automobiles from across the spectrum. That's 200 cars meticulously researched and lovingly rendered by a two-man art team somewhere within Microsoft's motor city.

"Car ownership and collection is really important among the three design standpoints. The way we've handled our upgrades is very, very realistic," Greenawalt says, showcasing a dream collection of real-world body parts that affect not only your car's appearance (on and off Xbox Live), but also its performance.

"Customization and personalization is where we are really changing the game," Young says. "Because at the end of the day, we truly believe that you are what you race."

Just for you...

C.

 

[erahk64]

Just for you...

C.

Thanks !

 

[Tacet_Blue]

this thread had degreaded a lot...it's almost unenjoyable.

Your not kidding! 90% of this thread is rubbish, its mud-slinging and fanboyism, from both sides. When was the last time a new fact was posted here?

Front: you created this monster, and at the beginning you wanted some advice on which game to buy. From your posts, it can be seen by the way you constantly bash GT4 that you have no interest in it, so do yourself a favour and pre-order Forza. You say how can GT4 dare to call itself a driving simulator, with no damage, only six cars on the track (two less than Forza ) and crappy AI, how dare it, after all, the GT series is only the most successful racing game on any console

You say you are not graphic whores, but all you seem to do is post high res renders of Forza and say "omg look at those bump mapped super textures","look at those reflections" of course you are aware that those high res pics have nothing to do with the in-game graphics at all.

Hype: It is threads like this one that generate the hype for a game. I can read one page of this thread and discover that Forza will be running at 60fps, at a resolution of 1080, and have 16 cars on the track...so I will be dissapointed when I find out it is only 30fps at 640x480 with 8 cars, but where did this hype come from...not the developers.

TriplePlay: how are you able to watch a postage stamp sized video of Forza and declare that it is 5 times better than GT3. Will it sell 5 times more copies? Of course not, will it have 5 times more cars, No. Will it have 5 times the number of tracks...No. So you just pick a number out the air and add it to a sentence implying that GT3 was ****.

Whats with all the GT3 bashing as well...we have a GT3 forum here, and if you look at the post dates, you'll see people are still playing it and racing online...yes in 2004 with the release of GT4P and the BMW demos, people still feel the urge to play GT3...maybe its a good game after all.

So rather than make up stuff and hurl crap at each other, how about some "real" info on Forza.

Some in-game shots would make a change
Information on the online mode
A track list
Maybe a Car list
How far does the damage model go..can you destroy a car

Come on guys bring this thread out of the gutter, Code_Kev, you seem to get sadistic pleasure out of bashing cobragt, and cobra...well...perhaps it would be best if you just didn't post in this thread for a while

 

[code_kev]

"There are three core things we aim to deliver with Forza," Young explains. "Realistic graphics, [simulation] physics, and car ownership and customization"

Isn't that 4?

Code_Kev, you seem to get sadistic pleasure out of bashing cobragt, and cobra...well...perhaps it would be best if you just didn't post in this thread for a while

Shut it fanboy Just kidding, but yes, i do actually, I just love ripping him to bits. Seems like I'm not the only one tee he he

Some in-game shots would make a change

Well there are some pretty high quality vids availible (in game ofc), and I think they look pretty good, much better then some of the awful screenies shown.

The fact that alot of people play GT3 hardly means it's good lol, my opinion, of that it's quite possibly the most boring racing game ever to have been created still stands.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Shut it fanboy

Saw that coming

I'm a Fan of the civilised debate

btw I think customisation and ownership are being counted as the same thing

 

[yeti]

"There are three core things we aim to deliver with Forza," Young explains. "Realistic graphics, [simulation] physics, and car ownership and customization"

Isn't that 4?

Yeah I thought that... I think that it's meant to be
1) GFX.
2) Physics.
3) Cars (Customisation & Ownership).

C.

 

[okoj]

"There are three core things we aim to deliver with Forza," Young explains. "Realistic graphics, [simulation] physics, and car ownership and customization"

Isn't that 4?

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is realistic graphics...realistic graphics and [simulation] physics...[simulation] physics and realistic graphics.... Our two weapons are [simulation] physics and realistic graphics...and car ownership.... Our *three* weapons are [simulation] physics, realistic graphics, and car ownership...and customization.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as [simulation] physics, realistic graphics.... I'll come in again.

 

[erahk64]

Just for you...

C.

Thanks !

They posted the preview in a another forum now and it had som extra info.

AUTO MAGIC
The making of Forza Motorsport
Breaking down reality and then piecing together the elements on your Xbox is more difficult than you think. For the love of cars, the Forza design team got their Bugle Boys dirty and their hands greasy to perfect every detail.

Sound engineer Tawm Perkowski clamps on microphones encased in plastic protectors to record the sound of tires on asphalt. In order to truly "digitize" a race track, one has to take into account every physical detail, including road incline. A Jaguar does donuts in the dirt to record authentic off-road sounds.

Reality can be measured and replicated. Every track is accurate to specification. Taking notes and photos out on the test track. Perkowski and Shawn Thompson record the sound of a real transmission, hooked up to the motor of a chain saw for ease of access.

 

[code_kev]

Okoj, thank you

 

[okoj]

de nada

 

[WhIteDrAgOn]

"There are three core things we aim to deliver with Forza," Young explains. "Realistic graphics, [simulation] physics, and car ownership and customization"

Isn't that 4?

Well GT4 is gonna have to better things in it than Forza, and that is mainly gfx, sim, and car ownership.....although it doesnt have customization, its still gonna be better.