GT4 vs. GT3- which is better?

[dking]

gt4's physics work fine if you are moving....

Gt4 is not a step backwards...Just cause the same techniques you learned in gt3 don't work in gt4, there is no need to say it doesn't work. I find the game has plenty of feel and body movement. Of course if you are using Ds2 you are missing out on the Ture GT4 experince, which might account for many mistakes made, such as snap oversteer........As for drifting, I found driftin jokingly easy in gt3 and more challenging and fun in gt4....Finaly they made a driving game that not everyone and their mom can drift in. And if you can't...practice you really can.

All in all its your preference...but gt4 is definately a huge step above gt3.

 

[Tornado]

Gt4 is not a step backwards...Just cause the same techniques you learned in gt3 don't work in gt4, there is no need to say it doesn't work.

But when the techniques of other simulations that are so obviously above GT4 physics wise is when you get the problem. And I've found that GT3 is usually closer to those games (Viper Racing, Live for Speed, GTR) than GT4 is.

I find the game has plenty of feel and body movement. Of course if you are using Ds2 you are missing out on the Ture GT4 experince, which might account for many mistakes made, such as snap oversteer........

2 things:

1. Any console game designed exclusively for a $250 item should not have been released (PC games are given leeway because they come with keyboards and not controllers), period. It was the case with Steel Batallion and it is the case with GT4 if that is what you are insinuating. If they designed the game with the DFP in mind as the only real way to control it, they should not have designed the game.
2. The DFP does work better with GT4. But it doesn't come close to eliminating snap oversteer. Not close at all. It merely makes it harder for you to accpomplish it by making the wheel turn a lot.

As for drifting, I found driftin jokingly easy in gt3 and more challenging and fun in gt4....Finaly they made a driving game that not everyone and their mom can drift in. And if you can't...practice you really can.

I agree with you that drifting was far too easy in GT3 (barring power oversteer, which I thought was nicely done). What I do not agree with, however, is that GT4 is any better. GT4 just made drifting unrealistically hard to do. If you have driven a big hairy chested Camaro you know how easy it can be to slide and modulate a drift in a powerful RWD car. Not the case in GT4, as Wolfe showed in his video.
Now, cars like the AE86 should be somewhat harder to drift, yes. But there are techniques in real life for drifting that just don't work in GT4 without silly amounts of tuning that shouldn't be necessary (for example, any RWD car at all should be able to drift by handbrake, yet it is still stupidly hard to do so). Yes, practice is key. But it was also important in GT3, but in GT3 it was so you didn't over-drift and spin out. In GT4 practice is key just to figure out how to get the car sideways at all.

 

[Zmann42087]

GT4 all the way. GT3 came out basically simultaneously with the PS2. It was a quick release and satisfied the need for an immediate GT game for the PS2 console. I believe they took more time producing GT4. To me, GT4 feels like a refined version of GT3. They took there time and built a game that really shows the PS2's capabilities. I own GT3 and GT4, and I still play both, but if I had to compare the two... GT4 comes out on top.

 

[Tornado]

GT4 all the way. GT3 came out basically simultaneously with the PS2. It was a quick release and satisfied the need for an immediate GT game for the PS2 console.

GT3 came out over a year after the PS2 launched (hardly simultaneous, especially as it had been in development for nearly 2 years), and is still more polished overall (in my opinion, for various reasons that I beleive to be valid) than GT4 was. Long development time does not guarantee a superior product, and in fact usually hurts a product in the end.

 

[Zmann42087]

GT4 just made drifting unrealistically hard to do. Now, cars like the AE86 should be somewhat harder to drift, yes. But there are techniques in real life for drifting that just don't work in GT4 without silly amounts of tuning that shouldn't be necessary. Yes, practice is key. But it was also important in GT3, but in GT3 it was so you didn't over-drift and spin out. In GT4 practice is key just to figure out how to get the car sideways at all.
[/SIZE]

Agreed. Having taken a couple drift lessons in my friends AE86 and having tried drifting an AE86 in GT4, I can say that they are definitely comparable in difficulty. I suck at both, btw...

 

[GT4_Rule]

After reading how GT4 always causes spinouts due to overcorrection, I played the game myself to see. All I can say is that the grip front wheels have are unreal.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Yes and no actually, do you have a DFP?

If so, set it to 200° and try to drift with it. Got it? You go in a drift but while you're actually steering in lock the car just comes out of it's line, into a straight line towards the barrier. And that even with full throttle while you're steering into the corner (!)


I might do it and and go photmode with it, I might even capture it but my digital camera is getting old

 

[Scaff]

But when the techniques of other simulations that are so obviously above GT4 physics wise is when you get the problem. And I've found that GT3 is usually closer to those games (Viper Racing, Live for Speed, GTR) than GT4 is.

While I agree that GT4 is far removed from a good number of sims on the market, I have to say that I'm quite saddened to see the overall obsession with one aspect of a simulation.

The total focus of this discussion seems to have headed (and Toronado I have picked your post just as an example) into a fixed area, that GT3 has a more realistic 'feeling' physics model because it (arguably) better recreates oversteer.

This totally ignores all the areas that GT3 is poorer in, such as braking performance (which reduces stopping distances by a very unrealistic level), the lack of any real understeer on almost all cars and unrealistic levels of cornering grip; not to mention the overstrong snap-back in GT4 is almost totaly absent ion GT3, this again is unrealistic as over-correction should cause problems (but GT3 lets you get away with murder).

To ignore these area I think is concerning as we are running the risk of reducing this discussion to a one trick pony show.

Is it too difficult to induce power oversteer in GT4? Yes. Is it impossible in a stock car? No. Could PD have done better? Most certainly yes. Does that one area automatically make GT3 more 'realistic in feel'? No.

2 things:

1. Any console game designed exclusively for a $250 item should not have been released (PC games are given leeway because they come with keyboards and not controllers), period. It was the case with Steel Batallion and it is the case with GT4 if that is what you are insinuating. If they designed the game with the DFP in mind as the only real way to control it, they should not have designed the game.
2. The DFP does work better with GT4. But it doesn't come close to eliminating snap oversteer. Not close at all. It merely makes it harder for you to accpomplish it by making the wheel turn a lot.

I don't agree that the comparison here is fair to begin with, as Steel Battallion did not offer any alternative at all.

I think that its fair to say that GT4 is 'optimised' to the DFP, in that it allows you to get more out of the cars and gives you a greater degree of control (lets be fair left-foot braking is a tad difficult with a controller). However that optimisation also extends to Enthusia and Richard Burns Rally to name but two, the same argument could be applied to both of those.

I would in fact go further and say that with RBR is almost impossible to be competitive without using a DF or DFP, and you will have a major disagreement on your hands if you try and say that means it should not have been made.

On the second point I agree that use of the DF or DFP do not magically cure the 'snapback' from GT4, but they certainly do help manage it, and not for the reason you give. Use of a halfway descent wheel allows much finer and smoother control and that does help reduce it.


Regards

Scaff

 

[kikie]

I voted for GT4 ofcourse. It's better in every way.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Further explenation?

In what way is it in every way better? Wolfe already showed in which parts it isn't better at all...

 

[Wolfe]

While I agree that GT4 is far removed from a good number of sims on the market, I have to say that I'm quite saddened to see the overall obsession with one aspect of a simulation.

The total focus of this discussion seems to have headed (and Toronado I have picked your post just as an example) into a fixed area, that GT3 has a more realistic 'feeling' physics model because it (arguably) better recreates oversteer.

This totally ignores all the areas that GT3 is poorer in, such as braking performance (which reduces stopping distances by a very unrealistic level), the lack of any real understeer on almost all cars and unrealistic levels of cornering grip; not to mention the overstrong snap-back in GT4 is almost totaly absent ion GT3, this again is unrealistic as over-correction should cause problems (but GT3 lets you get away with murder).

To ignore these area I think is concerning as we are running the risk of reducing this discussion to a one trick pony show.

Is it too difficult to induce power oversteer in GT4? Yes. Is it impossible in a stock car? No. Could PD have done better? Most certainly yes. Does that one area automatically make GT3 more 'realistic in feel'? No.

Good point, but I think you'll find that I covered this caveat of the discussion in my first post in this thread. However, in order to make sure I'm clear on this, I'll address the points you brought up directly.

Braking performance -- The difference between the two games is imperceptible to me, although I know you've measured a discrepancy between the two. Also, we all know GT4 equips every single car with ABS and won't let you deactivate it, so as I'm sure you would admit, GT4 itself isn't perfect in this area.

Lack of understeer/Unreal levels of grip -- GT4 never really fixed this. PD simply took the idea of the "simulation" tires in GT3 and expanded it to yield a small variety of low-grip tires in GT4. Although using these tires brings the level of grip through a corner closer to "reality," they unfortunately also intensify the lack-of-traction controllability issues that GT4 has. No matter how accurate the understeer may be all by itself in GT4, the inability to produce proper oversteer shifts the balance of the game's handling too far into the realm of understeer. As a result, there's no happy middle ground in GT4 -- you can either choose N3's or lower and suffer from inescapable understeer, or you can choose S1's and above and tear around corners as if your tires were made of God.

Overcorrection -- You are correct, but does that make GT4 better? In a clash between two physics flaws that are "equally" wrong (GT4's too-strong overcorrection and GT3's too-weak overcorrection), I personally choose the one that makes the game more enjoyable, which in this case is GT3's too-weak overcorrection. That is, of course, assuming that the overcorrection flaws in both games are "equal" in their distance from reality...if I were asked to decide which game was closer to reality in their overcorrection flaw, I'd choose GT3. Overcorrection may not be nearly as much of a factor as it should be in that game, but it's still a factor, especially with a wheel.



My point in my first post was that GT3 and GT4 are relatively equal in terms of physics flaws -- for every flaw GT4 fixed, it seems to have created another one. However, I believe that GT3 holds an edge in the realm of oversteer, and also just "feels" better. That's why I prefer GT3.

 

[Mad Matt]

Interesting discussion. I voted for GT4.

Why?

Well I only used the pad with GT3, and only the DFP with GT4. I also haven't played GT3 since the first month of owning GT4. Added together it makes it hard to compare the physics, especially for an old guy like me who has enough trouble remembering his name.

Having said that: I prefer the physics in GT4, yes there are loads of errors, but I find them slightly more enjoyable than the errors in GT3, if I can put it that way. I also play GTR and GTR2 which, in my opinion, also have a lot of errors. It's harder to be certain with GTR as I haven’t driven a GT car, but I'm pretty sure they've got it wrong too.

Coming back to GT4, I find the cars give a flavour of their real world characteristics (I've only driven a handful in real life, but if we take those as an example). I found this flavour slightly stronger in GT4 for the cars I know best. It's still wrong by a long way, gear ratios in the Fiat Barchetta for example, but I am reminded of the real car.

Another point, is that this is a simulation, you don't, for example, feel the G-forces or the vibrations, which in real life tell you what the car is going to do. So, the game has got to find ways of conveying this information to you by other means, graphically and via sounds. I think that overall GT4 works better in this area. On the other hand this kind of thing is partly about psychology so I can easily understand that some people feel differently.

 

[GT40 MKII]

GT4 all the way more cars more real world race courses Longer enduro races

 

[Scaff]

Braking performance -- The difference between the two games is imperceptible to me, although I know you've measured a discrepancy between the two. Also, we all know GT4 equips every single car with ABS and won't let you deactivate it, so as I'm sure you would admit, GT4 itself isn't perfect in this area.

I'm surprised you say that you find them imperceptible as for me cars are much more stable under braking in GT3, particularly over bumps and track imperfections. In terms of numbers on average GT3 cars stop between 0.5 and 0.75 seconds quicker (from 100mph to 0mph) than GT4 cars, which is quite a difference.

Regarding the ABS issue, well given the thread on GT4 braking I started in the Settings sub-forum I'm quite well known as one of the single biggest critics of the way braking is represented in games/sims. Which does also lead me to observe that the all-encompassing ABS (with no off switch) is far from limited to the GT series.

Lack of understeer/Unreal levels of grip -- GT4 never really fixed this. PD simply took the idea of the "simulation" tires in GT3 and expanded it to yield a small variety of low-grip tires in GT4. Although using these tires brings the level of grip through a corner closer to "reality," they unfortunately also intensify the lack-of-traction controllability issues that GT4 has. No matter how accurate the understeer may be all by itself in GT4, the inability to produce proper oversteer shifts the balance of the game's handling too far into the realm of understeer. As a result, there's no happy middle ground in GT4 -- you can either choose N3's or lower and suffer from inescapable understeer, or you can choose S1's and above and tear around corners as if your tires were made of God.

I've never disagreed that GT4 has issues, its just for me understeer is as important a component as oversteer and personally I find GT4 a better balance in this regard. I just can't accept that to have almost zero understeer to deal with is a better thing.

The understeer on N3's is not inescapable at all, its just harder to escape that is should be, and the level of grip offered by S1 tyres while unrealistic for road legal tyres is not unrealistic in the realm of shaved stock or slicks.

Overcorrection -- You are correct, but does that make GT4 better? In a clash between two physics flaws that are "equally" wrong (GT4's too-strong overcorrection and GT3's too-weak overcorrection), I personally choose the one that makes the game more enjoyable, which in this case is GT3's too-weak overcorrection. That is, of course, assuming that the overcorrection flaws in both games are "equal" in their distance from reality...if I were asked to decide which game was closer to reality in their overcorrection flaw, I'd choose GT3. Overcorrection may not be nearly as much of a factor as it should be in that game, but it's still a factor, especially with a wheel.

Once again we would have to agree to disagree here, I would rather have oversteer with a possible consequence, no matter how severe its was, that have almost no consequence.

My point in my first post was that GT3 and GT4 are relatively equal in terms of physics flaws -- for every flaw GT4 fixed, it seems to have created another one. However, I believe that GT3 holds an edge in the realm of oversteer, and also just "feels" better. That's why I prefer GT3.

Again a difference of opinions has to exist here as the flaws in a lot of areas that you may not consider to be important, I most certainly do, and the reaction of the GT3 cars to braking, understeer, overcorrection and tuning are for me, far more flawed than in GT4.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Tornado]

While I agree that GT4 is far removed from a good number of sims on the market, I have to say that I'm quite saddened to see the overall obsession with one aspect of a simulation.

To ignore these area I think is concerning as we are running the risk of reducing this discussion to a one trick pony show.

I agree completely. GT4 did do things such as weight transfer and braking modulation better (though I find modulation to be quite good in both so I don't find is as noticeable as the weight transfer aspect), though in some cars/drivetrains it still seems rather screwy in a different way than in GT3 (the RUFs spring to mind).

I don't agree that the comparison here is fair to begin with, as Steel Battallion did not offer any alternative at all.

I know the comparison came off as unfair (and I admit it was), but dking very clearly said that lack of DFP accounts for many of the mistakes made during game play. This implies that to play the game correctly at all you need a DFP, and I was trying (and failed) to use Steel Battalion as an example that makes that statement by dking seem extreme (which I think it is).

I think that its fair to say that GT4 is 'optimised' to the DFP, in that it allows you to get more out of the cars and gives you a greater degree of control (lets be fair left-foot braking is a tad difficult with a controller). However that optimisation also extends to Enthusia and Richard Burns Rally to name but two, the same argument could be applied to both of those.
I would in fact go further and say that with RBR is almost impossible to be competitive without using a DF or DFP, and you will have a major disagreement on your hands if you try and say that means it should not have been made.

Not being into rally games (the only one I own is Shox and a copy of V-Rally 2, both hardly simulations), I can't comment on that. But if you are saying that to play the game with any degree of skill or chance of accomplishment you are required to use the DFP than I must say that I stand by the fact that the game should not have been produced for consoles, at the very least without being bundled with the DFP.
Now, truthfully, that statement makes me a sort of hypocrite, as I likes me some DDR Extreme 2, but the Dance Pad and DFP are separated by anywheres from $200-225 so the extremeness is lightened.
About EPR being optimised for the DFP, having played EPR with the DFP (acronym hell) I can say that I agree with you. But it isn't necessary to use to play EPR, just as GT4 isn't. It helps, yes. But necessary? Not even close. Which is what I was trying to say in reply to dkings assertion that in order to do anything in the game you are required to own a DFP.

 

[Wolfe]

...the all-encompassing ABS (with no off switch) is far from limited to the GT series.

True enough. But our discussion here is technically limited to the GT series.

The understeer on N3's is not inescapable at all, its just harder to escape that is should be, and the level of grip offered by S1 tyres while unrealistic for road legal tyres is not unrealistic in the realm of shaved stock or slicks.

True enough. But that doesn't change the fact that there isn't a happy middle ground for a street-legal tire.

 

[Scaff]

I know the comparison came off as unfair (and I admit it was), but dking very clearly said that lack of DFP accounts for many of the mistakes made during game play. This implies that to play the game correctly at all you need a DFP, and I was trying (and failed) to use Steel Battalion as an example that makes that statement by dking seem extreme (which I think it is).

I don't disagree that dking's statement that GT needs a wheel is wrong, just that I didn't agree with the analogy used.

Not being into rally games (the only one I own is Shox and a copy of V-Rally 2, both hardly simulations), I can't comment on that. But if you are saying that to play the game with any degree of skill or chance of accomplishment you are required to use the DFP than I must say that I stand by the fact that the game should not have been produced for consoles, at the very least without being bundled with the DFP.
Now, truthfully, that statement makes me a sort of hypocrite, as I likes me some DDR Extreme 2, but the Dance Pad and DFP are separated by anywheres from $200-225 so the extremeness is lightened.
About EPR being optimised for the DFP, having played EPR with the DFP (acronym hell) I can say that I agree with you. But it isn't necessary to use to play EPR, just as GT4 isn't. It helps, yes. But necessary? Not even close. Which is what I was trying to say in reply to dkings assertion that in order to do anything in the game you are required to own a DFP.

Well strictly speaking a DFP is not required to be competitive, since my younger brother broke my DFP I have been using my old DF (around £35-£40 in the UK) and that does the job fine with RBR.

True enough. But our discussion here is technically limited to the GT series.

I know but is still an interesting point of note, particularly as most people seriously underestimate the importance of braking in driving, both in the real world and how well it (is not) modelled in most console sims. Its actually quicker to list the console sims that make an attempt to model it and allow you to turn ABS off completely (I can only think of two).

True enough. But that doesn't change the fact that there isn't a happy middle ground for a street-legal tire.

Two problems crop up here, the first is defining a street-legal tyre, so many variations exist that its imposable to set a single standard. The second is that for the tests I did in GT4 most cars fall between an N2 and N3 in terms of numbers, but changing tyre brands or environmental conditions on a real car would throw even these results out.

What is not open for debate is that GT4 does not use the grip offered by the tyres as accurately as it could or should, but then again very few console or PC games/sims do. However in the focus of this discussion over all areas (acceleration, braking and lateral grip) I feel that GT4 offers a better all round balance than GT3.

Regards

Gideon

 

[Mad Matt]

I did notice that braking, when using the DFP at the end of a long straight (Le Mans for example), can make the car break out. I didn't find the same with the Pad or in GT3. I think this only happens on un-even ground, which seems reasonable.

I think Scaff already mentioned that, but maybe not that, for me at least, it only happened with the DFP, so I needed to be gentler on the brakes.

I also didn't mention in my first post that (despite many repetitions) there are more cars in GT4, the addition of some nice tracks and the challenges. All of these put together are reasons I voted for GT4.

 

[xKingOfDa910x]

I voted GT4 because it has a better feel to me, and some new features. and it has the high speed ring. I love that race track

 

[land sea air]

after being such a big fan of gt2 when it came out, i have to vote for gt4... after all the areas of the games that can be argued about which is better are settled theres one area that theres no denying was vastly improved in gt4, the sheer amount and diversity of cars. when gt3 came out i was amazed at the graphics and some of the concerns from the old game that had been addressed but after a while i began to miss having to worry about filling up my 100 car garage. in my opinion there are far to many big companies in gt3 that only have 1 or 2 cars available. so after getting about half way through the game i stopped playing and broke out my old copy of gt2... i continued to play it until gt4 came out. physics are somthing i never expect much of from a game even if it is the real driving simulator.

 

[zPhoenix]

I voted GT3 because - when it was released - it was as good as it could be. All of its features impressed me, and the quality control was obviously very good.

So I expected the same from GT4: Great features, well implemented. Instead, the feeling I got was that PD had some wonderful ideas but failed to fully deliver on them. It is still a great game, in many ways better than GT3, but it seriously disappointed me.

For example:

- GT4's menu system is a mess. A newcomer will find it very difficult to figure out what races to run first.

- The AI is an absolute joke. I'd almost say it's worse than GT3's, even though I know that can't be true.

- The constant presence of a "rabbit" AI car that leaps ahead of all the others makes racing somewhat boring. I used to love the chaos created by many similarly powered cars.

- The penalty system frustrates me to no end. I like the idea of a penalty system, and I have no problems playing within its rules, but it really should apply equally to the AI and human, and it needs to be far better! It is stupid to get penalized when it is the AI that hits you.

- GT3 gave you useful and "proportionate" cars when you won a race. GT4's are often useless, or at the very least quite lame prizes for the difficulty of a particular race.

- And for the king of lameness... no internet playing? Since LAN play was provided - and its code is 99% of what you need to provide a basic form of internet play - I felt cheated.

So here I stand... hoping that they'll fix all those flaws and make GT5 what GT4 was expected to be. In the meantime... I still enjoy GT4, even though not as much as when I used to play GT3.

 

[Hypnotoad]

GT4 let me down alot, I was always GT to the core. But then I played Forza on Xbox live and I couldn't help but feel, even with less cars and tracks that it was a much better game. GT games always won on substance aswell as graphics, but now I feel alot more needs to be done to make the game feel like a true driving simulator again; racing humans will always be more exciting than the a.i. and the car clubs are the icing on the cake there.

GT3 from day one was the best driving sim ever, there was no doubt; but with 4... Well, I think it's more for hardcore GT only fans as opposed to a wider audience... Let the flaming begin.

 

[rsmithdrift]

I love GT3, I think GT4 is....ok. It had so much potential and with one flaw they KILLED this game...... Tire physics. God at the wheelspin that completely leaves the understeer/oversteer situation completely unaffected. I can spin tires all day long, but it doesn't make the car want to oversteer hardly at all. And that just aint right. I'm a drifter and though it makes drifting a fun challenge, it is in no way realistic. If you've ever driven a real car on the edge or drifted it, you know this already.

Though GT4 clearly has the best graphics and the most cars more tracks and spoilers, physics are everything to me, that's why I have to give it up to GT3.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I like GT3 for the times I had some close racing with cars as the same class as mine, I've rarly had anything like that in GT4, I always have to drive against faster cars. I also love GT3 for one of the greatest courses in Gran Turismos history Special Stage Route 11.

I love GT4 for the large amount of cars, the physics, Nürburgring. The enduros are much more interesting in GT4, except for the lack of the Trial Mountain 2-hour.

I can't really decide which one I enjoy more, they've both been fantastic games and brought me alot of fun!

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

The constant presence of a "rabbit" AI car that leaps ahead of all the others makes racing somewhat boring. I used to love the chaos created by many similarly powered cars.

In GT4 you have a certain amount of control over the quality of the AI cars be resetting the field until it has 5 AI cars that you want to race against.... and so no, there is not a constant presence of a rabbit car unless you accept AI fields that have them. The nice thig about GT4 is that they expanded the pool of AI cars, thus for many races you can vary the type of race and quality of the AI cars. For instance, if you want it to be more like the real world... which have rabbit and backmarkers, then you can select those fields, or if you prefer to have a tight group of cars, then you can select those fields.

I will say though, that I hope that in future GTs they allow you to specifically select all the AI cars for every race, so that it would make it far easier to create precisely the kind of race scenario that appeals to each player at any given time. 👍


For me though GT4 simply has too much that GT3 lacks (specifics mentioned earlier), thus making it easily the better game IMO.

 

[Cole]

GT4 is obviously better. DUH. It has more cars, better graphics, interface, etc. Sure, you can't go 900mph in a GT-one, but I never use that anyways. Only when i want to say "I'm faster than you and there's nothin' u can do about it!" to the AI.

GT4 let me down alot, I was always GT to the core. But then I played Forza on Xbox live and I couldn't help but feel, even with less cars and tracks that it was a much better game. GT games always won on substance aswell as graphics, but now I feel alot more needs to be done to make the game feel like a true driving simulator again; racing humans will always be more exciting than the a.i. and the car clubs are the icing on the cake there.

GT3 from day one was the best driving sim ever, there was no doubt; but with 4... Well, I think it's more for hardcore GT only fans as opposed to a wider audience... Let the flaming begin.

How could u say that? Even though Forza has 24 calculations/sec and GT4 only 6/sec, they say that #5 will have over a hundered calculations/sec. ▐

 

[Wolfe]

Please don't double-post. Use the edit button if you want to add something.

Also, it doesn't matter if you have the most cars, the best graphics, the best interface (GT4 has one of the worst, by the way), or the most calculations per second. If the rest of the game sucks, the game sucks.

With that in mind, I believe the physics in GT3 and GT4 are both quite unrealistic, but they were at least fun in GT3. Therefore, for me, GT3 is the better game.

 

[D-Mind]

GT4 is defiantly best. Much more realistic, more cars, better competitions, B-Spec mode is sometimes useful as a money maker for enduros, but the biggest plus has to be photomode!

couldn't have put it in a better way myself! 👍

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Also, it doesn't matter if you have the most cars, the best graphics, the best interface (GT4 has one of the worst, by the way), or the most calculations per second. If the rest of the game sucks, the game sucks.

With that in mind, I believe the physics in GT3 and GT4 are both quite unrealistic, but they were at least fun in GT3. Therefore, for me, GT3 is the better game.

A couple observations:

1) For a simple poll thread with less than a hundred replies, you've managed to post 10 times complaining about how GT4 sucks... and yet still over 72% disagree with you, and from the comments, by quite a lot.

2) For someone who apparently feels GT4 sucks, you certainly spend a lot of time talking about it.

Personally, if I ever played a game that sucks, I'd stop playing it, get rid of it, and move on without even waisting time thinking about it, let alone complaining about it over and over again. But that's just me.

 

[RICHARDO]

Wolfe doesn't play GT4 anymore though D-N. At least, I don't think he does. Yes, he might constantly "complain" (Not really the right word, but I couldn't think of any other word.) about how GT4 gets some blatantly obvious things wrong with the physics engine, but he does have some quite valid points.

And many people agree with him, just the poll dosen't.