GT5 Drifting physics flawed?

[dice1998]

Would be right, if that made the game so MUCH noticeably better, but it won't. For some of us that do it irl, yes. But it won't improve the overall drifting, as much as a decent version of Ebisu would, for example.

So better tire physics won't make drifting physics more realistic and thus unflawed which leads to it being better?

























































What?

 

[Reddee]

Tire Physics are not a big problem I rarely get snap back anyway so it's not that big of an issue.
I agree with gonales we need more for the drifters , more tracks, drive chain swaps, engine swaps ext this would be a lot better that tire physics in my opinion. Just give me ebisu and I'll be happy ha ha.

 

[Lock2Lock]

No I do not think the physics are flawed. I think they are highly realistic infact. I get amazing feedback and information through my wheel. A lot of people think that the FFB and the dead zone in the wheel is flawed but from they way i see it they did a lot right. PD made the car's weight to be felt through the wheel.

Honestly that is more realistic than any other games I have played

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

"Do you even drift, bro?"

I get almost no feedback while drifting in GT5.

 

[GODfreyGT5]

I find GT5 is most certainly on par with LFS (the acclaimed most realistic sim for drifting) in terms of feel, control and realism.

I wouldn't want them to ruin it really :/

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I really found the two experiences of real drifting and GT5 drifting entirely different.

 

[Lock2Lock]

"Do you even drift, bro?"

I get almost no feedback while drifting in GT5.

Actually I have drifted in real life before. In my personal vehicle in fact.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Actually I have drifted in real life before. In my personal vehicle in fact.

Okay, I'll toss you a bone. What sort of car?

 

[Lock2Lock]

Okay, I'll toss you a bone. What sort of car?

Actually and say what you want about it but it is 2WD and i was if i kept it setting it up to run in professional FD because they will allow it. 1994 GMC Sierra 1500 single cab 2WD here's a picture of it here

It was in great shape for what it was too and still is. I used to drift it mainly in the rain (so i don't lose all my tires too quickly) and sometimes on drugs roads. Where I lived at the time there was many dead end S turns and places where I could drift and not be bothered by the police. But i learned mainly in empty parking lots trying to do figure eights.

On some roads which that didn't have a lot of activity at night that's where I would go to drift.

And as you can imagine with it being a truck I could feel everything through the wheel. I feel about the same through the wheel on GT5.

Also I have drifted a few of my friends cars too mainly in the rain so i wouldn't mess up there cars and ruin tires. A lot of my friends trust my driving because of what I used to do a long time ago (not going to talk about that part of my life it is in the past and that is where it will stay). So they know I know how to handle the cars after a few times of driving them (basically easily adaptable to different cars)

If you don't have feeling through your wheel it might be your tuning. Which I can give you some pointers if you want. Thumbs up.

I find GT5 is most certainly on par with LFS (the acclaimed most realistic sim for drifting) in terms of feel, control and realism.

I wouldn't want them to ruin it really :/

I have heard LFS is one of the best Sims out there and GT5 is right there with it?

I usually stay away from PC games because i work on them so I hate bringing work home if you catch my drift.

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

Honestly I get more feedback in my seat while driving then my steering wheel, maybe that's the reason why I don't like using the wheel for this game. As for as this game goes, too much understeer IMO.

In real life if you are getting a lot of feedback from the road you might want to check your suspension because something is jacked up

 

[Lock2Lock]

Honestly I get more feedback in my seat while driving then my steering wheel, maybe that's the reason why I don't like using the wheel for this game. As for as this game goes, too much understeer IMO.

In real life if you are getting a lot of feedback from the road you might want to check your suspension because something is jacked up

Well yeah this game has a lot of understeer. But no the suspension was actually in great shape. Remember I mostly drifted my truck more than anything. First example in my ex girlfriend's BMW Z3 it did have less feedback through the the wheel because well lower ground clearance and more level suspension which on her car it had a greater oversteer factor (sorry my wording for why probably isn't correct but trying to explain the best I can). Which on my truck it had more of a understeer and more feeling because of the weight factor that was involved.

On the truck subject. I have drifted a 2000 Toyota Tacoma that was another little 2WD pickup truck. It was lower to the ground to where you feel a greater oversteer effect and it had great response through the wheel.

But yes you don't feel it all through the wheel like in GT5 you feel it at a level way all around in real life.

 

[GODfreyGT5]

I have heard LFS is one of the best Sims out there and GT5 is right there with it?

In terms of weight transfer and complete feel of control while drifting they're very close, but I think LFS maybe has slightly better suited proggressive grip loss with its tyre model, more tuning options, 'layout' customisation (placing items in game), completely customisable liverys and a few other things. But there's many reasons why I still prefer GT5, they are both amazing games.

 

[Lock2Lock]

In terms of weight transfer and complete feel of control while drifting they're very close, but I think LFS maybe has slightly better suited proggressive grip loss with its tyre model, more tuning options, 'layout' customisation (placing items in game), completely customisable liverys and a few other things. But there's many reasons why I still prefer GT5, they are both amazing games.

Yeah i have heard many good things regarding the tire model. And the customization too. I might just give it a try if guess.

 

[Scaff]

GT5's tyre model is not even close to that used in LFS (or the likes of SimRaceway) and for anyone seriously interested in drifting (or any part of vehicle simulation) it should be right at the top of the list of areas that need a massive overhaul for GT6.

The current model gives almost no progression (the transition from grip to no grip is almost digital), doesn't account for tyre width (or give an option to change tyre dimensions), tyre pressure and changing 'grades' of tyre simply changes the grip multiplier used (which is why a Mini Copper can get the same lat-g figures as a 'Vette on the same tyres).

The interesting think about LFS's tyre model is that the developers themselves also acknowledge the one they use (in LFS) is still very much a work in progress.

 

[Lock2Lock]

GT5's tyre model is not even close to that used in LFS (or the likes of SimRaceway) and for anyone seriously interested in drifting (or any part of vehicle simulation) it should be right at the top of the list of areas that need a massive overhaul for GT6.

The current model gives almost no progression (the transition from grip to no grip is almost digital), doesn't account for tyre width (or give an option to change tyre dimensions), tyre pressure and changing 'grades' of tyre simply changes the grip multiplier used (which is why a Mini Copper can get the same lat-g figures as a 'Vette on the same tyres).

The interesting think about LFS's tyre model is that the developers themselves also acknowledge the one they use (in LFS) is still very much a work in progress.

Don't think he said they were exact. He meant closest to each other.

 

[Scaff]

Don't think he said they were exact. He meant closest to each other.

I know that's what he said, however they are not close to each other at all. LFS models a wide range of factors that GT5 doesn't in its tyre model and doesn't act as a simple grip multiplier.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I know that's what he said, however they are not close to each other at all. LFS models a wide range of factors that GT5 doesn't in its tyre model and doesn't act as a simple grip multiplier.

I get what you mean. We weren't talking about the tire model directly. We were discussing the overall feel of it. Which is great

 

[Gonales]

I get what you mean. We weren't talking about the tire model directly. We were discussing the overall feel of it. Which is great

It's far from great, in my opinion. But the drifting I can do with some people is very awesome.

I know that's what he said, however they are not close to each other at all. LFS models a wide range of factors that GT5 doesn't in its tyre model and doesn't act as a simple grip multiplier.

So, why increase realism, when there are other things that would make a bigger impact on the community?

For me, I would very much prefer to have the same tire types, on a lot of new tracks, than most of the same tracks and cars with a different, (maybe more realistic), feel. I just handle the lack of realism ingame, as if I was using a really bad tire compound ingame.

Plus, if you want more realism, force people to get a driving license, before doing stuff like this. It's a game, and it always will be.

 

[Scaff]

I get what you mean. We weren't talking about the tire model directly. We were discussing the overall feel of it. Which is great

Are you sure he didn't say.....

I think LFS maybe has slightly better suited proggressive grip loss with its tyre model,

...in regard to the comparison between the GT5 and LFS tyre model? Which would seem to be saying that very little difference exists between them.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Are you sure he didn't say.....

...in regard to the comparison between the GT5 and LFS tyre model? Which would seem to be saying that very little difference exists between them.

Come on Scaff I understand completely what you are talking about never said you were wrong. Yeah he did say that about the tire model and from what I know and understand is that LFS has one of the best tire models. Yeah i did see what he said. But i am going by this whole discussion about the physics for drifting not just the tire model.

You are pointing out something I am not denying bro hahaha.


By the way incase you didn't know this or not most of us drift on comfort hard tires. Just giving you a reference in case you didn't know what tires we are talking about

 

[Scaff]

Come on Scaff I understand completely what you are talking about never said you were wrong. Yeah he did say that about the tire model and from what I know and understand is that LFS has one of the best tire models. Yeah i did see what he said. But i am going by this whole discussion about the physics for drifting not just the tire model.

You are pointing out something I am not denying bro hahaha.

Which is always a problem when you reply on behalf of someone else.

My main point however was aimed at those in this thread that seem to believe that PD don't need to do anything to the physics engine (including tyres) to move things forward for drifting (and the title in general). An attitude I don't understand when a good number of rather large issues exist with the physics engine.

One rather easy example (that illustrates some of the low speed tyre issues that exist) is to take a stock Shelby Cobra and do a full throttle launch, the car will launch down the track in a perfectly straight line, not a bit of step-out from the rear. As I say just one example that is quick and easy to carry out (and feel free to contrast that with a RWD car in LFS).

So, why increase realism, when there are other things that would make a bigger impact on the community?

Just a wild guess, but maybe because its a sim? One thing that sim racing communities (which would then include the wider community around GT5) tends to look for is a more realistic sim.

For me, I would very much prefer to have the same tire types, on a lot of new tracks, than most of the same tracks and cars with a different, (maybe more realistic), feel. I just handle the lack of realism ingame, as if I was using a really bad tire compound ingame.

Which would be great if the tyres acted like a really bad real world tyre compound, but they don't, they don't act as tyres should do at all. I also fail to see why developing a better physics engine would stop us getting different/more cars and tracks? That would imply that the same people have to work on all of these element, which quite clearly is not the case.

Plus, if you want more realism, force people to get a driving license, before doing stuff like this. It's a game, and it always will be.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. I work in the motor industry, doesn't mean I have instant access to a wide range of cars and tracks to use at my personal whim. Very, very few people do, as such we tend to use sims to allow us to explore and enjoy what we can't always sample in reality.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Which is always a problem when you reply on behalf of someone else.

My main point however was aimed at those in this thread that seem to believe that PD don't need to do anything to the physics engine (including tyres) to move things forward for drifting (and the title in general). An attitude I don't understand when a good number of rather large issues exist with the physics engine.

One rather easy example (that illustrates some of the low speed tyre issues that exist) is to take a stock Shelby Cobra and do a full throttle launch, the car will launch down the track in a perfectly straight line, not a bit of step-out from the rear. As I say just one example that is quick and easy to carry out (and feel free to contrast that with a RWD car in LFS).

I never said they were perfect or couldn't be improved. But i did say they were not flawed as in not totally unrealistic. So once again you are pointing out something i already know and that i am not denying. I also do reference you a lot when i talk to certain people in GT5 about the tire model because i do agree with you on the tire model.

Also to the part you mentioned about torque steer yes i do understand that it isn't modeled correctly but it does show up by making the 1st gear long (which has been shown before). So far as torque steer in GT5 is concerned it is NOT modeled correctly but is there under many things that need a overhaul and to be modeled correctly.

I can't play LFS like i said i will have to buy it eventually when and if i feel like playing PC games again. Like i said i work on computers for a living so i don't feel like playing on them too (reason Carpol Tunnel hahaha).


but yeah i hear you on the point that some people think it is good the way it is and doesn't need improvement. I agree totally

 

[Reddee]

I really found the two experiences of real drifting and GT5 drifting entirely different.

I have a friend who drifts and he practices with gt5. He told me gt5 is very realistic and it's the closest your going to get to real life drifting without buying a real car and drifting it.

 

[Scaff]

I have a friend who drifts and he practices with gt5. He told me gt5 is very realistic and it's the closest your going to get to real life drifting without buying a real car and drifting it.

In which case I serious doubt your friend has tried a wide enough range of sims.

 

[Gonales]

Just a wild guess, but maybe because its a sim? One thing that sim racing communities (which would then include the wider community around GT5) tends to look for is a more realistic sim.

As I said before, you want more realism? Get rid of the heaps of awful drivers on GT5, before changing anything...

Which would be great if the tyres acted like a really bad real world tyre compound, but they don't, they don't act as tyres should do at all. I also fail to see why developing a better physics engine would stop us getting different/more cars and tracks? That would imply that the same people have to work on all of these element, which quite clearly is not the case.

Because, believe it or not, even PD works on a budget. And I doubt, when they won't be able to do something for GT5, they actually manage to pull it off for GT6, PLUS give us more tracks and stuff. This would mean a double increase in workforces really. (If you get what I mean.)

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. I work in the motor industry, doesn't mean I have instant access to a wide range of cars and tracks to use at my personal whim. Very, very few people do, as such we tend to use sims to allow us to explore and enjoy what we can't always sample in reality.

I know, very few people do have access to a lot of different cars, and high speed track racing / drifting. Thing is, you can improve the game all you want, but in the end it's not the game that makes me come back, it's an awesome community.

For example, Decoy, Lock2Lock, Blueninja, Marbel, ... All these guys are great people, and know how to handle a car. If they weren't there, I wouldn't play GT5.

Improve the player base, improve the game. (Much more than physics would.) I accept that GT5 doesn't have perfect physics, and I don't mind because the drifting, believe it or not, is ****ing awesome nonetheless.

 

[DarkAvengerZR1]

I accept that GT5 doesn't have perfect physics, and I don't mind because the drifting, believe it or not, is ****ing awesome nonetheless.

You, who claims to be a real drifter, should more than anyone here, knows that drifting in GT5 is horrible and unreal.

 

[Lock2Lock]

You, who claims to be a real drifter, should more than anyone here, knows that drifting in GT5 is horrible and unreal.

She is and "horrible and unreal" isn't the word for it. Also do you play on a wheel or DS3?

 

[Gonales]

She is and "horrible and unreal" isn't the word for it. Also do you play on a wheel or DS3?

DS3, she hasn't got the skills for a wheel, I'd guess.

 

[Lock2Lock]

DS3, she hasn't got the skills for a wheel, I'd guess.

Reason i asked her was because in all honesty if she (or anyone) is on a controller she (or anyone) really shouldn't be saying which one is more or less realistic. If anyone has anything to say different about that then it is pretty self explanatory how wrong their logic is.

 

[DarkAvengerZR1]

She is and "horrible and unreal" isn't the word for it. Also do you play on a wheel or DS3?

It is unreal, and since GT5 is supposed to be a simulator, it is horrible.

It may be fun, and the best we can get in a PS3, but it is far from reality.

DS3, she hasn't got the skills for a wheel, I'd guess.

Reason i asked her was because in all honesty if she (or anyone) is on a controller she (or anyone) really shouldn't be saying which one is more or less realistic. If anyone has anything to say different about that then it is pretty self explanatory how wrong their logic is.

I play with a DS3, but come on, it is common logic that physics in GT5 are unreal, and it gets worse when it is about drift!

You want a simple example? Look how many real life drifters are able to do a reverse entry and now look at how many videogame players do that in GT5.