GT5 tires vs. real life?

[Parnelli Bone]

Sad that they did not do a better job on tire life in GT5. GT4 was very good in this area and made for some interesting tire strategy but here it seems that pretty much all the tires last about the same.

In GT4 the Comfort tires lasted almost forever where the Race softs lasted no time at all.

GT4's tires were horrible. In real-life, you should be able to get more than one lap around Nurburgring on soft tires (comfort, sport, or racing). Even GT4's hard-grade tires wore out way too fast in comparison with real life. 👎

I'd say GT5, while still not completely realistic, at least does a better job with overall tire wear. I just got about 40 laps around Autumn Ring Mini in a '79 Civic on Sports Soft tires for instance, and I was driving hard, doing a Professional Arcade race while dodging other cars most of the time. In GT4, I doubt I'd be able to get 3 or 4 laps on N3 tires in the same situation, at the same track

I haven't done a comparison yet. I am going to try doing another race in that same Civic, but on hard tires, this time, and I'll be looking to see if they do, in fact, last longer, or if they just last the same as softs.

To compare to real life I think of the Comfort hard as cheaper radial tires which have a long tread life 60,000 + and comfort soft are the more expensive radial tires found on many higher end cars giving more grip and about 1/3 the tire life at 2x the price.

Agree with you here. I've always thought of CH tires (or GT4's N1 tires) to have the grip level of some the cheaper off-brands you'd find from Costco or WalMart or some place like that.

CM (or GT4's N2 tires) are more like a good set of all-season radials, so far as grip goes. The majority of passenger cars (Camrys, Tauruses, etc) on the roads today would have something like these equipped; and I'm noticing in GT5, most of these cilvilian/everyday types of cars (Civics, Fiats, etc) have CM tires equipped as standard.

CS (or GT4's N3 tires) are supposed to be the equivalent of real-life 3-season radials that are used during mostly dry weather, so far as grip-levels go. And again, I noticed the other day I won some car in GT5 which is more performance-oriented from the get-go, I think it was the Civic Type R but I might be wrong, and it was equpped with Comfort Soft tires as standard, not Comfort Mediums.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

I've wondered about this a bit myself.

I noticed in the game that the S2000 comes stock with Comfort Soft tires. But at the same time the Nissan 470Z comes stock with Sport Hard tires. Yet in real life the tires these two cars come with are quite similiar (both variations of the Bridgestone Potenza RE050 line).

I've upgraded my personal (IRL) S2000 to Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs from the OEM rubber so to me that is equivalent upgrade (in the game) to Sport Medium tires.

The Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec is Dunlop's Extreme Performance Summer tire developed for serious sports car, sports coupe and performance sedan enthusiasts looking for race tire-like traction on the street or for use in autocross, drifting and track events.

That's Tirerack's description of the tire. Sounds like Sport Medium to me 👍

 

[thad]

Looks to me like the GT5 tires are grouped according to compound and construction.

Comforts would be any street tire with a UTQG tread wear rating of 200 or greater.
The model resembles a Bridgestone RE760. with a limited operating temp range relatively soft sidewalls and deep tread blocks with rain grooving, this represents the vast majority of OE and replacement tires on production cars.

Sport tires would appear to represent a limited sampling of DOT approved R compound tires like the Yokohama A048 which are available in several compounds. these are still considered street tires because they are legal for road use, but they make less compromises for performance and control. Tread-wear will be in the range of 140-40, these tires will have strongly reinforced sidewalls and wide shallow tread blocks with minimal grooving.

The racing tyres represent competition road racing slicks in a variety of compounds, they have a longer and higher heat range than street tires but shallower tread block. with the exception of rain and intermediates, theses will typically have no siping or grooves.

 

[Denilson]

I've read all your comments, and I think that it's a very interesting subject. When I try to conclude all info, I think I have to change My standpoint. So something like this then? Can we agree on that?

CH = Fitted to small citycars like a Yaris.
CM = Used to a wide range of everydaycars. Ex: Pirelli P6000
CS/SH = A top tyre for everyday driving. The CS would represent the les expensive tyre, and the SH a more expensive tyre, but still under the same category of tyres as the CS's. Ex: Good Year Eagle F1, Dunlop Sportmaxx, Michelin Pilot Sport II.
SM = Roadleagal slicks with thread for trackdays and comes stock to the track-oriented cars such as BMW M3 CSL, Porsche GT3RS, Ferrari 360 Challange Stradale, Ferrari 430 Scuderia, Lamborghini Superleggera. Ex: Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, TOYO R888.
SS = A tyre for track use. Probobly something that is not to expensive for the serious, but still for amature use.
RH/RM/RS = Well, I guess we might have a problem sorting these out. But the RS is a very grippy tyre. Almost F1 quality. The RM could simulate the soft tyres for example JGTC, DTM and so on. The RH would be for the smaller racing classes, and would be a soft racetyre from their point of view.

How about that conclution?

 

[thedeester1]

http://www.blackcircles.com/general/speedrating

Ok I dont mean this as an advert...it was just the easiest way to make a point...OK

For example the N rated Tyre is for 87MPH max and the Y rated tyre is for 186MPH max (after that your in a special world).

The letter ratings are mainly for safety. The ratings apply to wall thickness and Reinforcement....Tyres are not all rubber....Cut a Bicycle tyre appart and you will find some canvas...Thats the reinforcement. I state a Bicycle tyre cause therye cheap to cut up if you do this.

So basicly the faster the tyre rating the more rubber and reinforcement it has.
This is mainly to do with 2 things. First the deformity of the tyre at speed and expansion under heat....So if you have something floppy it will deform at speed hence the Reinforcement....If you have something that gets soft when hot you need to add more material to lower the heating coefficient.

Ok then you need to take the size of the sidewall....It could be huge and very thick but physical forces will still bend it. If cornering at huge speeds then a large sidewall will deform more than a smaller sidewall. This Is why sports cars have low profile (small sidewall) tyres.

Next factor is compound (for us hard to soft) so this is the friction the tyre has with the road....A harder compound will generate less friction than a soft one over an equal surface....Take say the butt of a pen and rub it over your PC desk...then do the same with a pencil eraser. The pencil eraser will feel like it has more drag. Thats the friction...That equates to more grip.

So lastly is tread. The Ideal tread for a tarmac track is none....Then you have 100% of the rubber on the ground giving maximum friction and most grip...However you might be driving on a loose surface or a wet one...A totaly slick tyre here would be useless as it would almost float on the loose matter that is water or gravel....What has to be done then is cut grooves into the tyres so the loose matter can be forced into them and ejected. Thus a tyre with grooves can remove loose matter and the major surface of the tyre can then contact with the solid surface beneath.

Ok for me Comfort hard are a danger to humanity...Ive driven even the slowest cars pretty quickly and not had them spin out like a slow car in GT....They are Illegal in virtually every country in the world IMO.

Comfort medium are much more like the tyres the average road car is gonna drive on...People still complain they have no grip....But rarely do you drive the average road car to its full potential...I dont recomend you try but if you did you would find all the understeer and oversteer limits of your RL car.

Comfort soft are an upgrade from comfort medium more grip.

Taking note that the Ratings in GT dont give you side wall sizes!!!

After that I think sports and racing are probably not road legal....at least in the UK...For sports tyres it would depend if the tread pattern could pass a British standard test since it rains a lot here. And for Slick racing tyres they are illegal on the road since every other day when it rained hundreds of people would die!

 

[aargod228]

Wouldn't it be better to identify these tires by a "real world" tread wear rating?

I would identify:
comfort hard = 600+
comfort med = 400-600
comfort soft = 300-400

Sport hard = 200-300
Sport med = 150-200
Sport soft = 100-150

Race hard = 60-100
Race med = 30-60
Race soft = 0-30

just my .02c

 

[Denilson]

Ok, so where did you get those numbers from? Did you just guess or do you know something we don't know?

 

[thad]

Wouldn't it be better to identify these tires by a "real world" tread wear rating?

I would identify:
comfort hard = 600+
comfort med = 400-600
comfort soft = 300-400

Sport hard = 200-300
Sport med = 150-200
Sport soft = 100-150

Race hard = 60-100
Race med = 30-60
Race soft = 0-30

just my .02c

pretty close to what I'd guess, but I'd move the 30+ tread wear tires to the sport category as there are some DOT R comps that have that low a rating and the race tires really won't conform to the UTQG system of tread wear.
stuff like BFG R1 Hoosier A6 and R6, and Kumho V710 are sort of a gray area.

 

[Driver46]

...

I guess it would need some proper testing to see what the relative lap time gaps are.
...

I gained about 1.3 seconds for each better tire per one minute lap time going from comfort soft through all the sport compounds up to racing hard.

 

[Denilson]

I gained about 1.3 seconds for each better tire per one minute lap time going from comfort soft through all the sport compounds up to racing hard.

👍 Interesting! I'll also try some combination of cars and tyres to see what I can come up with.

I'm wondering what tarck I shoul do this test at.. Nurburgring 24 h maybe, most of all because of it's length.. You can more clearly see any results..

I'll give it a shot tomorrow.

 

[Youngsyr]

For what it's worth, the sports tyres picture used in GT5 is taken from the Yokoham A048 tyre, which is availabe in medium hard, medium and soft compounds. I've used the medium compound on track on my Evo and they do make a big difference to the Yokohama Advans (I would class as comfort medium) that I had on for the road.

Yokohama sells tyres (or tires, for you New Worlders) that cover the entire range of GT5 categories from comfort hard to sports soft. For example I would class the A046 (fitted as standard to Mitsubishi Evo VII to IX) as a comfort soft tyre. It lasts around 6,000 miles of "normal driving".

 

[dshipley]

Here's my take on how the tires translate...

1. Comfort = Similar to an All Season Street Tire

• Hard: ~ 600-500 Tread Wear
• Medium: ~ 500-400 Tread Wear
• Soft: ~ 400-300 Tread Wear

2. Sport = Similar to a Summer High/Extreme Performance Street Tire to a DOT legal R-Compound Tire

• Hard: ~ 300-200 Tread Wear
• Medium: ~ 200-100 Tread Wear
• Soft: ~ <100 Tread Wear

2. Race = Similar to a Racing (Slick) Tire

• Hard: Hard Compound
• Medium: Medium Compound
• Soft: Soft Compound

As it has been stated I don't really notice a difference in the rate at which the different tire types wear down, but the difference in the level of grip is very noticeable.

 

[DrkPhnyx]

Interesting thread. I was actually thinking of starting one just like it.

I remember reading in the past that GT3 or 4 (forget which) had tires that were simply way too grippy to compare to RL. That basically, when comparing track times and such, the "sport" tires were actually equivalent to racing slicks, and the games R tires were just ovre the top.

I was wondering if any actual tests or reports from PD were around to come up with more than just individual opinion for GT5.

I know that comfort tires, even soft, in any GT game feel like I'm driving with wood instead of rubber. Even my old 91 Grand Prix with cheap-y tires on it felt like it had more grip than comfort soft in game.

My Dakota R/T has Goodyear Eagle RS/As on it, which are "comfort" tires, meant to have some performance, but not be "hardcore" in any way. It handles very well, and definitely hangs on in a corner (I've embarassed/suprised many a car on backroads here hehe). These are the stock tires. Granted, they are 255/55R17s on all 4 corners.

My old '88 GTA had higher end Goodyear Eagles from circa 1997 (around when I had it). They were not mega dollar high end tires, and were in the stock 245/50VR16 size, but that was a monster on tight, twisty and bumpy backroads that felt positively glued.

Now, to be honest, I have yet to get any of my vehicles to a track. Much to my chagrin, because I am not near any tracks except drag strips (which I don't care for). So all I have to go by is high speed deserted backroad runs (not the best idea, I realize), however, I have pushed each vehicle I've owned past it's grip point and it's always felt higher than past GTs (and somewhat even 5).

My .02¢ anyway.

 

[calan_svc]

Here's my take on how the tires translate...

1. Comfort = Similar to an All Season Street Tire

• Hard: ~ 600-500 Tread Wear
• Medium: ~ 500-400 Tread Wear
• Soft: ~ 400-300 Tread Wear

2. Sport = Similar to a Summer High/Extreme Performance Street Tire to a DOT legal R-Compound Tire

• Hard: ~ 300-200 Tread Wear
• Medium: ~ 200-100 Tread Wear
• Soft: ~ <100 Tread Wear

2. Race = Similar to a Racing (Slick) Tire

• Hard: Hard Compound
• Medium: Medium Compound
• Soft: Soft Compound

As it has been stated I don't really notice a difference in the rate at which the different tire types wear down, but the difference in the level of grip is very noticeable.

I think this looks like a winner. Now if we could just get all of the cars outfitted with the actual tires that they would come with from the factory, based on this...

 

[DrkPhnyx]

I think this looks like a winner. Now if we could just get all of the cars outfitted with the actual tires that they would come with from the factory, based on this...

Which makes me wonder if it's really the case, or if GT5's "Sport" tires are far grippier than we are equating them to (like I've read about GT3 or 4). ::: shrug :::

 

[calan_svc]

I gained about 1.3 seconds for each better tire per one minute lap time going from comfort soft through all the sport compounds up to racing hard.

Did you test multiple times, or is this just a rough estimate?

I'm trying to come up with a tire handicapping system for another project, and am wondering how to approach it. It's possible I could use a percentage for each tire grade if this data is repeatable.

 

[porschedrifter]

DaveM-sport has the right idea.

It's like real world tire categories, you can get the idea here:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/tiretype.jsp

 

[Driver46]

Did you test multiple times, or is this just a rough estimate?

I'm trying to come up with a tire handicapping system for another project, and am wondering how to approach it. It's possible I could use a percentage for each tire grade if this data is repeatable.

It was not an extensive test but I did do several laps with each tire. I tested on Tsukuba, thats why I said the difference is for a one minute lap time.
I reckon the 1.3 seconds is pretty constant. If I would spend more time with a certain tire that lap time would improve a tiny bit but so would the lap time with the next tire if I invest the same amount of track time.
What I am saying is, everyone will have different lap times but the difference between the times on different tires will be the same no matter who is driving and how long . Thats what I think but do a test yourself, maybe I got something wrong.
(Interestinlgy in Forza3 I only gained 2-3 tenths per better tire, even with more width and better suspension,[ on Tsukuba], but cars in that game have even more grip right of the start and lap times are a lot lower than in GT5).

 

[Denilson]

How about this concution?

I've read all your comments, and I think that it's a very interesting subject. When I try to conclude all info, I think I have to change My standpoint. So something like this then? Can we agree on that?

CH = Fitted to small citycars like a Yaris.
CM = Used to a wide range of everydaycars. Ex: Pirelli P6000
CS/SH = A top tyre for everyday driving. The CS would represent the les expensive tyre, and the SH a more expensive tyre, but still under the same category of tyres as the CS's. Ex: Good Year Eagle F1, Dunlop Sportmaxx, Michelin Pilot Sport II.
SM = Roadleagal slicks with thread for trackdays and comes stock to the track-oriented cars such as BMW M3 CSL, Porsche GT3RS, Ferrari 360 Challange Stradale, Ferrari 430 Scuderia, Lamborghini Superleggera. Ex: Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, TOYO R888.
SS = A tyre for track use. Probobly something that is not to expensive for the serious, but still for amature use.
RH/RM/RS = Well, I guess we might have a problem sorting these out. But the RS is a very grippy tyre. Almost F1 quality. The RM could simulate the soft tyres for example JGTC, DTM and so on. The RH would be for the smaller racing classes, and would be a soft racetyre from their point of view.

How about that?

 

[Predwolf]

Sorry for the stupid question, but the tires really gets worn down in the game? I mean do I have to change them after a couple of races? I haven't realized this so far, but it is also true until know I haven't played too much. Thanks

I'd like to put forward the notion that this is an awesome idea, having to buy new tires every other race or so. Heck, just having to pay for every set used would really put a hamper on the R.Soft usage!

 

[TimberW]

How about this concution?

I've read all your comments, and I think that it's a very interesting subject. When I try to conclude all info, I think I have to change My standpoint. So something like this then? Can we agree on that?

CH = Fitted to small citycars like a Yaris.
CM = Used to a wide range of everydaycars. Ex: Pirelli P6000
CS/SH = A top tyre for everyday driving. The CS would represent the les expensive tyre, and the SH a more expensive tyre, but still under the same category of tyres as the CS's. Ex: Good Year Eagle F1, Dunlop Sportmaxx, Michelin Pilot Sport II.
SM = Roadleagal slicks with thread for trackdays and comes stock to the track-oriented cars such as BMW M3 CSL, Porsche GT3RS, Ferrari 360 Challange Stradale, Ferrari 430 Scuderia, Lamborghini Superleggera. Ex: Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, TOYO R888.
SS = A tyre for track use. Probobly something that is not to expensive for the serious, but still for amature use.
RH/RM/RS = Well, I guess we might have a problem sorting these out. But the RS is a very grippy tyre. Almost F1 quality. The RM could simulate the soft tyres for example JGTC, DTM and so on. The RH would be for the smaller racing classes, and would be a soft racetyre from their point of view.

How about that?

👍 +1, I adopted this conclusion for my challenges!

 

[Cosbuster]

I'm doing some testing and creating a list with all GT5 cars and what tyres they should be fitted with. Nothing scientific but it's good fun.

 

[Denilson]

👍 +1, I adopted this conclusion for my challenges!

Do you find it close (or some what close) to reality?
Do you have a challange you would like to share?

 

[calan_svc]

Do you find it close (or some what close) to reality?

You guys may want to check out this thread if you haven't already.

 

[Denilson]

You guys may want to check out this thread if you haven't already.

Yes, I've read it.. I agree with it as well 👍

But it's kind of hard testing all cars to see what type is most true to reality.
So with that in mind, I think that the conclutions in this thread are somewhat ok..

But I would love a post like yours with all cars included..

 

[calan_svc]

Yes, I've read it.. I agree with it as well 👍

But it's kind of hard testing all cars to see what type is most true to reality.
So with that in mind, I think that the conclutions in this threadis somewhat ok..

But I would love a post like yours with all cars included..

Well the conclusions that I came up with after all that testing is that the suggestion of just fitting a certain class of cars with a certain type of tire is completely wrong.

But you can use whatever tires you want of course.

BTW - There is a link at the bottom of the first post to a spreadsheet with recommended tires based on the scale I came up with. I'll update it as I get more data and have time.

 

[Denilson]

Well the conclusions that I came up with after all that testing is that the suggestion of just fitting a certain class of cars with a certain type of tire is completely wrong.

But you can use whatever tires you want of course.

BTW - There is a link at the bottom of the first post to a spreadsheet with recommended tires based on the scale I came up with. I'll update it as I get more data and have time.

Well, I don't think that it gets completely wrong using conclusions from this thread..

I agree that you can't follow them to the latter, but with some "feeling" you can get pretty close to reality..

It's like when I used my M3 CSL (comes stock with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup) I found that I had to use the SH tyre instead of the SM to get close to reality.. So in my game, the F430 and the CSL rolls on the same GT5-tyre, but in reality theye are not.. Guess that's kind of what you are describing in your OP.. 👍

 

[calan_svc]

It's like when I used my M3 CSL (comes stock with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup) I found that I had to use the SH tyre instead of the SM to get close to reality.. So in my game, the F430 and the CSL rolls on the same GT5-tyre, but in reality theye are not.. Guess that's kind of what you are describing in your OP.. 👍

That's a great example of what I was getting at. The F430 pulled a skidpad number of .94 IRL. While I can't find any documented test results for the M3 CSL, there are several unofficial reports of the car pulling a substantially higher number. (Based on what I've read, my guess is that it's probably around 1.05 or so if it's as sticky as they say. That's up there in the range of the Enzo, LFA, Viper, etc.).

Given that, the F430 in GT5 should be equipped with SH tires, and the M3 CSL with SM or maybe even SS...unless the reports of the CSL's grip are greatly exaggerated.

 

[Denilson]

That's a great example of what I was getting at. The F430 pulled a skidpad number of .94 IRL. While I can't find any documented test results for the M3 CSL, there are several unofficial reports of the car pulling a substantially higher number, maybe even getting up into the race car range.

Given that, the F430 in GT5 should be equipped with SH tires, and the M3 CSL with SS...unless the reports of the CSL's legendary grip are exaggerated.

If I use conclusions from this thread, I'd say that the semi-slick road tyre is a SM.. Whith that in mind, I changed the weels one step to the SH's..

I've actuallt driven a CSL on track. And I can tell you that the grip is GREAT!! However, that has a lot to do with it's weight, and most of all with little weight in the high parts (CF roof, No stereo, no electric windows, no elctric std seats) of the car.. So if the CSL had the same weight, and weight distribution as the F430, theye would have different tyres in game.. But as they don't have the same weight distribution they run the same tyres in game to simulate reality as close as possible..

 

[Denilson]

Probably cause the in-game physics calculates the weight of the cars like one big pile of kg..