GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide

[Nish]

Most people do pp racing and along with that use the engine limiter. When you do an oil change you are not only bringing up the hp but also your torque. Now where this hurts you is the more torque you have the less hp you can run at the same pp. So many people go without, some even get their oil dirty purposely just so the car will run the least amount of torque possible at a certain pp.

 

[Jimmy_Pop]

Most people do pp racing and along with that use the engine limiter. When you do an oil change you are not only bringing up the hp but also your torque. Now where this hurts you is the more torque you have the less hp you can run at the same pp. So many people go without, some even get their oil dirty purposely just so the car will run the least amount of torque possible at a certain pp.

why you gotta pick on my poor broken Focus @Nish

he's got a valid point though, if building to a particular PP level, it is best NOT to do the oil change, it will make the car slower than someone who's car does not have one. And, after a time I believe between 5200 and 6600-6800 (I don't remeber the point it stopped)km the engine loses power, I haven't noticed further being at 7300.

 

[FergusMik]

Just to throw this into the mix for the experts to ponder...

I have been running a Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 for several months in my racing club. I have never changed the oil in it, and I'm at 6600 miles (over 10000 km). The oil change indicator has not come on yet, and I have had no loss of power that I can see. The pp, torque and hp is still the same as day one.

Out of curiosity I bought a brand new Mini and configured it to the exact specs and compared my lap times at Brands Hatch, there was no difference.

I will continue to drive that first car until it finally does deteriorate, I need to know!

 

[Hastatus]

@FergusMik : There are instances in online racing where the odometer changes but car deterioration does not: e.g. when tire wear is turned off.

 

[FergusMik]

@FergusMik : There are instances in online racing where the odometer changes but car deterioration does not: e.g. when tire wear is turned off.

Interesting. We have always had tire wear set to Normal as a default.

 

[FergusMik]

Just to throw this into the mix for the experts to ponder...

I have been running a Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 for several months in my racing club. I have never changed the oil in it, and I'm at 6600 miles (over 10000 km). The oil change indicator has not come on yet, and I have had no loss of power that I can see. The pp, torque and hp is still the same as day one.

Out of curiosity I bought a brand new Mini and configured it to the exact specs and compared my lap times at Brands Hatch, there was no difference.

I will continue to drive that first car until it finally does deteriorate, I need to know!

In case anyone is interested, my oil light came on at around 7800 miles during an online race. I noticed a 1 ft-lb drop in torque so far and no drop in PP or HP. I will run the car some more for a while and see what happens next, just to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[PJTierney]

Relevant to our ongoing discussion about the body rigidity deterioration being "way too fast":

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...rates-way-too-fast.292723/page-5#post-9094147

The one interesting thing I learned about your post is that:



Which means that the rigidity may actually be working normally in terms of mileage. However, users still complain that their cars are still undriveable after the first 500 KM. I'm guessing that the effects of 'slight' deterioration may be too high.

Is the difference in handling after 500km noticeable or is it more of a placebo effect initially? With some of the more expensive cars it can cost quite a bit to restore after every 500km.

 

[Fanapryde]

Is the difference in handling after 500km noticeable or is it more of a placebo effect initially? With some of the more expensive cars it can cost quite a bit to restore after every 500km.

I can clearly feel the car handle different and I can see it on the laptimes too.
Don't remember exactly how I first found out, but my Audi R8 LMS Phoenix team has +15.000 km on the counter and I had its body rigidity restored more than 10 times (lost my notes).
Also: after three 24' races, PP goes down by 5 to 7 points, which also works against laptimes.
Motor has been restored several times also, but that is less expensive than the body.

 

[PJTierney]

I can clearly feel the car handle different and I can see it on the laptimes too.
Don't remember exactly how I first found out, but my Audi R8 LMS Phoenix team has +15.000 km on the counter and I had its body rigidity restored more than 10 times (lost my notes).
Also: after three 24' races, PP goes down by 5 to 7 points, which also works against laptimes.
Motor has been restored several times also, but that is less expensive than the body.

So if I'm in a high-class car (like a GT3 or GT500), would you recommend I still restore Body Rigidity every 500km?

 

[Fanapryde]

So if I'm in a high-class car (like a GT3 or GT500), would you recommend I still restore Body Rigidity every 500km?

I would. It is not always 500km, it seems to depend on the car. I also read that collisions take a part of it, but I can't confirm that.
Take a note of lap times before and after and you'll see 👍
It is rather expensive, especially when you're short of credits (500.000 for the Audi I mentioned), but I think it is worth it.

 

[PJTierney]

I'm competing in a race series at the moment, so I'll most likely stay away from the restoration until Race Day.

 

[Fanapryde]

I'm competing in a race series at the moment, so I'll most likely stay away from the restoration until Race Day.

Keep in mind that you will have to adapt to the (renewed) stiffer feeling.

Yesterday (some 5 laps during club TT on Sierra) and today (three 24' races on the Nürburgring) I have been playing around with my Ferrari 330 P4. It has now 800,3 km and PP went down. Went for an oil change and I saw that body rigidity deterioration has begun... (Body rigidity improvement is installed)... 500K again...

 

[Fanapryde]

Okay, the BMW Z4 GT-3 did the seasonal in Mount Panorama. With 610km on the counter I noticed the car lost some PP and suffered body deterioration. Restored that and added new oil.
Did two 24' races on the Nürburgring and PP dropped from 650 tot 643.
So that was a loss of 7 PP after 150km...

 

[ODB]

So if I'm in a high-class car (like a GT3 or GT500), would you recommend I still restore Body Rigidity every 500km?

Ok, I'm not totally sure, but doing chassis repair already after only 200km seems to already have some effect to the cars handling (makes it bit stiffer) at least I'm pretty sure that deterioration is noticable before 500km when the deterioration light goes on...

I'm mainly spending my time grinding in TT's and seems to me like I have done many of my best times within 150-200km from last chassis repair... This could be a placebo effect no doupt, but I can't seem to be able to convince myself that this would only be in my own head... I could be wrong, I have been once before, but that was an accident

Thoughts?

EDIT: Ok, just to elaborate my though on this, in many tracks there's a huge variation on corners and usually in slower corners it helps if the car is a tad more looser so you get the rotation, when in really fast corner even a tad stiffer car can give more consistent results there fore giving a tad better lap times. So IF there's a minor change in rigidity under 500km it's little and very insignificant (and I'm not quite sure if it's happening) but always when my body rigidity light has already turned yellow, the car has become really sloppy and doing the restoration gives the car better "posture" so you can handle it easier, so yeah, I would say do the rigidity restoration at least after 500 km, car behaves better, at least IMO.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Is the difference in handling after 500km noticeable or is it more of a placebo effect initially? With some of the more expensive cars it can cost quite a bit to restore after every 500km.

It is just a placebo effect. absolutely no difference after 500km.

The car I am using in B-Spec has over 3000 miles with no pit work beyond changing the oil and is still just as fast as it was when it was new. Granted it is hard to tell on a race like the 24 minute Nurburgring with Bob driving but still after over 50 races he is turning pretty much the same times all along and on a race that long if there was a drop off it should be clear to see even with Bob driving.

Earlier I did a test with Nascars after having saw people saying the cars lap times were dropping after just 500km.
I tuned the Nascar to get the best and most consistent lap time on Motegi Speedway as possible. Ran it up over 600 miles then bought a new one and tuned it the same way. Fresh oil in both cars one with 0 miles the other with 600 miles. Ran 10 laps in each, The cars felt exactly the same and the best lap was exactly the same in both cars. The avg laps was .00x difference with the higher mileage car having the faster average which I would chalk up to be within the margin of error from driving the car.

I choose Motegi because I have a lot of experience on that track and it is possible to turn very consistent laptimes on it with a good car once you know how. Many times when hot lapping I will post times that are exactly the same or within a few thousandths on multiple laps.

Even the slightest issue with the rigidity should show up in such a test

 

[breyzipp]

4) Permanent High Mileage Deterioration:
- There is a hidden high mileage HP loss that begins around 10,000 km, but may not be visible until about 15,000 km due to the low deterioration rate and PD’s HP rounding issues.
- The high mileage HP loss is very difficult to calculate due to the lack of used cars like in GT5 and due to the fact that the loss may be as low as 3 or 5 % HP over a few hundred thousand kilometers: e.g. with the Red Bull 2011 Prototype, even with its massive amount of HP (meaning changes happen quicker), the deterioration is only 1 hp every 2806.8 km.
- Current estimates are that a 3% loss would happen at around 130,000 km; a 5% loss would happen at around 210,000 km.
- Cars with less HP will drop HP much less evidently and the issue with the way PD rounds HP makes accurate predictions exceptionally tedious.
- The high mileage HP loss has no indicator light in GT Auto because this HP is a permanent loss, unlike the oil deterioration and engine deterioration HP losses which can always be fully restored.
- The loss is permanent: unless PD releases Car Restore Tickets that reset mileage to zero in the future like they did in GT5.
- This loss is unlikely to impact most players since there are no more used cars and most players are unlikely to put 10,000+ kilometers on their cars very often. Also every car can be purchased new besides Anniversary Edition cars.

... and then Bob came along...

 

[Thomas__633]

well done...
ive run up 6000km in my Furai so will be seeing some of these problems soon... gonna save up for a complete rebuilds

 

[Smurfybug]

@nascarfan1400

 

[cjr3559]

I've referred to this guide from time to time, and the information and time spent researching and testing is invaluable. My only criticism (of the game primarily) is the rubber band testing in order to accumulate mileage. If you were to run a car against the side of a wall you'd expect massive body and chassis degredation. Unfortunately, PD doesn't seem to calculate for this increase as a result of poor driving. If I continually shunt a car then I should expect faster degradation, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[rosckolove]

At what point does oil degradation stop affecting the HP of the car? How any miles/km's until it stops?

And just to clarify. I losing the 5% HP boost, and then an additional 5% for dirty oil?

 

[davidt33]

Excellent thread and helpful too. Kudos to the author Hastatus. Man you apparently did some serious research there.

One question out of curiosity, regarding that fourth category of deterioration you spoke of: "the high mileage engine deterioration, which has no indicator in GT Auto because there is nothing you can do to prevent or fix it (besides never driving your car)", considering your research was based on the 1.03-1.04 version of the game, since the version has now reached v1.22, has anything changed since regarding to reverse that deterioration issue.

 

[Hastatus]

Excellent thread and helpful too. Kudos to the author Hastatus. Man you apparently did some serious research there.

One question out of curiosity, regarding that fourth category of deterioration you spoke of: "the high mileage engine deterioration, which has no indicator in GT Auto because there is nothing you can do to prevent or fix it (besides never driving your car)", considering your research was based on the 1.03-1.04 version of the game, since the version has now reached v1.22, has anything changed since regarding to reverse that deterioration issue.

Thanks. I'm sorry, but I do not know the answer to this. I have not thought about this issue for some time. I have not seen any mention of it in any of the patch notes and I do tend to read them carefully as they are released, so I would assume that it is still present. Then it occurred to me: I checked in on THE RB Prototype 2011 that I used in my experiment and it still has the high mileage deterioration present in its stats: 1399hp. If PD removed the effect I would expect them to restore any lost power caused by the High Mileage deterioration...so I would lean towards thinking that it is still present.

 

[joao pinto]

I have a car in Gran Turismo 6 walking 670 km as I do for amuentar more the speed the car is called srt tomawhaw x

 

[equalitus]

GT6 – Oil, Engine, and High Mileage HP Deterioration Guide



Just posting the PP numbers in my post about lowest PP values related to the engine deteriorating mechanism.

Red Bull X2014 Standard: 750 PP
Red Bull X2011 Prototype: 827 PP
SRT Tomahawk X Vision: 850 PP
SRT Tomahawk GTS-R Vision: 714 PP
SRT Tomahawk S Vision: 613 PP
Formula Gran Turismo 710 PP
Nissan R89C '89: 572 PP
Pescarolo Courage Judd GV5 '04: 558 PP
Suzuki V6 Escudo Pikes Peak: 555 PP
Mazda 787B '91: 549 PP
Toyota GT-One TS020 '99: 547 PP
Peugeot 905B Evo Bis LM: 545 PP
AMG Mercedes CLK-LM '98: 540 PP
BMW McLaren F1 GTR Race Car: 507 PP
Lexus LF-LC GT Vision: 502 PP
Toyota FT-1 Vision: 513 PP
Nissan GT-R LM Nismo '15: 523 PP
Nissan GT-R Concept LM RC: 500 PP
BMW Vision: 500 PP
Volkswagen GTI Supersport Vision: 500 PP
Subaru VIZIV GT Vision: 500 PP
Mitsubishi XR-PHEV Vision: 497 PP
Mazda LM55 Vision: 567 PP
Peugeot Vision: 569 PP
Lotus 97T '85: 737 PP

Some new readers might find it relevant and/or useful.