GT6 Sales Discussion

Famine
But lots of other people didn't. Like... lots.

For the "better competition" argument to make sense, someone's got to be taking up the numbers that GT is losing.

FM4 and GT5 - broadly peers as they were on direct rival consoles and came out fairly close to each other (okay, 11 months) - sold pretty much 16m between them, with just under 8m of those being month 1 sales.

FM5 is 2.5m down on FM4. GT6 is 8m down on GT5. Where are the other games selling the 10.5m copies these two games have lost?

Driveclub accounts for 2m. PCARS for 1m. Where's the other 7m? Have they all gone to PC and bought iRacing and Assetto Corsa - only the online subscriber numbers don't reflect that (55k for iRacing!).

Perhaps they've ditched the sims and gone to arcade racers? They're not going to Need for Speed though - Rivals sold less than 5m since 2013, while back in 2005 NFS was selling that many copies on one console.


Sales aren't falling in Gran Turismo to be taken up by "better competition". Sales numbers are falling in racing games across the board and, it looks like, all games across the board.
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Driveclub's 2 million sales figure is dated but point taken, FM5 is still a launch title (and wasn't a very good one to begin with) so it's sales are justified, PCARS didn't get much coverage so the average joe probably doesn't know this game exists, heck the average sim racing joe (me included) bought it used because of the bugs.

Still not sold on people buying racing games have decreased significantly, GT6 has several reasons to have sold these numbers and I'm sure GT7 will get things back on track if it's a decent game, also NFS this year will probably sell much better than the examples you've stated.
 
gtracedriver1
. In comparison to all other racing game on new console I think GT6 is ok whatever the real numbers are :rolleyes:
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These are the real numbers.

@Venari - FM6's proposed Leagues system, as @Zelalem mentioned, should make online racing much more approachable. We'll see this month if it pans out. FM6 itself has been riding a wave of positive reception, so its sales numbers will be interesting to watch. FM5 drew a fair amount of criticism - much like GT6 - so if it can reverse the trend that most games (not named GTA5) are suffering from, well, that could be encouraging for GT7's sales numbers, so long as it too is seen as a strong step forward from its predecessor.

jimipitbull
Myself, I'd rather see HD remakes of the old favorites -Enthusia.
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Unlikely, sadly, now that Konami has largely turned their backs on traditional gaming.

This downward sales trend across the genre is especially upsetting when we consider what a bumper crop the past year has provided.
 
Strange @jimipitbull should mention Enthusia. I liked Enthusia, and if you ran online games like its points based system (although maybe allowing you to 'pause' so you don't lose points if you don't race) it would be interesting.
 
Famine

The question here shouldn't be "Why is GT6 selling so poorly compared to its predecessors?", but "Why are all racing 'sim' games selling so poorly compared to the past?". As we're largely all fans of this type of game, whatever our preferred flavour, this should be worrisome.
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From my viewpoint, it's because not one of these racing games does everything right. I love aspects of Gran Turismo and Forza (for example) but am often left frustrated by their failure to give me the complete feature set.

I am sick and tired of buying FM1-5 and GT1-6 only be left with; "why didn't they do that?" Once a developer nails everything, and I mean everything, I will move to that game exclusively.

PDI and T10, which I view as genre leaders need to get off their butts and deliver a product that meets everyone's expectations. Yes, I am aware that achieving a 100% customers satisfaction rate is impossible, but it's time to pull all the stops and deliver a game with no equal.

I really hope Forza 6 tanks in the sales department too because like PDI, it's time to give the fans everything they want in a game.
 
Venari
Strange @jimipitbull should mention Enthusia. I liked Enthusia, and if you ran online games like its points based system (although maybe allowing you to 'pause' so you don't lose points if you don't race) it would be interesting.
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Enthusia was fantastic, and that system would've worked quite well.

nocturnalgrey
Yes, I am aware that achieving a 100% customers satisfaction rate is impossible, but it's time to pull all the stops and deliver a game with no equal.
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Apparently you're not, then.
 
In 2015 we have WRC 5... DIRT RALLY... SOON SEBASTIAN LOEB RALLY And yet they still don't come close to RICHARD BURNS RALLY.Same situation it is in track racing sims they still compares with LFS.
Buying new consoles, gready companys forcing you to buying new very expensive wheels and for what physics does not move at all(GT6 crap,Forza 6 crap 180% degrees wheel rotation and lag between your wheel movement and screen wheel movement obviously made for gamepads.
Sales are down and it is time for some to go bankrupt!
 
Famine
Literally already did that on this page. And Shift is an NFS game... As in the bit you just quoted.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but when asking about the deficit of 7 million copies you didn't count in Grid, Shift nor FH? And whilst Shift might have had the NFS brand it was an additional simcade racer which competes for the audience of GT.
 
SlipZtrEm
Apparently you're not, then.
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Come on Slip... I didn't think I needed to fully explain myself there. Even if a certain racing game gives us (for example) dynamic weather and time, elaborate customization, options galore, 120 race tracks, 700 fully rendered cars, an advanced damage system, robust online components, etc.. someone out there will find something (like trees) to complain about.
 
mister dog
Correct me if I'm wrong but when asking about the deficit of 7 million copies you didn't count in Grid, Shift nor FH?
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Grid didn't sell - less than a million copies. FH & FH2 didn't sell. Shift (and Shift 2) is an NFS game and, as I've pointed out twice now, NFS has been leaking sales since 2005. Shift 2 barely broke a million sales when all platforms were added up. The original Shift just about managed 5m all in.

You could add up all copies of Grid, FH and FH2 and just about get GT6's sales, give or take a couple hundred thousand.
mister dog
And whilst Shift might have had the NFS brand it was an additional simcade racer which competes for the audience of GT.
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It also came out in 2009 - which is before the period of time I'm talking about. NFS: Hot Pursuit is roughly a peer with GT5 and FM4 and makes the situation worse, not better.

But if you insist:
Famine
NFSHP, FM4 and GT5 - broadly peers as they were on direct rival consoles and came out fairly close to each other (okay, 11 months) - sold pretty much 21m between them, with just under 10m of those being month 1 sales.

Rivals is 2m down on HP. FM5 is 2.5m down on FM4. GT6 is 8m down on GT5. Where are the other games selling the 12.5m copies these three games have lost?

Driveclub accounts for 2m. PCARS for 1m. Where's the other 9m? Have they all gone to PC and bought iRacing and Assetto Corsa - only the online subscriber numbers don't reflect that (55k for iRacing!).
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Famine
Literally already did that on this page. And Shift is an NFS game... As in the bit you just quoted:
GT is haemorrhaging sales.
FM is haemorrhaging sales.
NFS is haemorrhaging sales.
FH, Driveclub and Project CARS aren't making any sales.
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While numbers are in decline, some of this perspective is a little harsh. F5, FH2 and DC have much smaller install bases compared to last gen (a quarter or less) and stand a good chance of gaining numbers as more people buy in to next gen consoles.
I thought DC did surprisingly well considering it's both a new IP and experienced horrible launch problems. At the moment it's still managed a 1/10 sales ratio with total consoles sold, which is in the same ball park as GT3, GT4 and GT5's sales ratio for their respective install bases.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
While numbers are in decline, some of this perspective is a little harsh. F5, FH2 and DC have much smaller install bases compared to last gen (a quarter or less) and stand a good chance of gaining numbers as more people buy in to next gen consoles.
I thought DC did surprisingly well considering it's both a new IP and experienced horrible launch problems. At the moment it's still managed a 1/10 sales ratio with total consoles sold, which is in the same ball park as GT3, GT4 and GT5's sales ratio for their respective install bases.
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Which does beg the question of why people think getting GT6 out on PS3 rather than PS4 was a mistake and responsible for the small sales figures...
Castrol96
On VGchartz it states GT6 sold 3.19m copies? ; more than 2.37m

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=gran+turismo+6

- Is this a lie?
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No, it's just wrong.
 
Never believe anything VGchartz says. @Castrol96 That site is not true. At all. Ever.

Driveclub and Forza 5 sales in light of installed user base seem perfectly reasonable to me.

I think somehow trying to link less that 25% sales of it predecessor in the case of GT6 to overall sales drops is trying to pretend there wasn't a very real problem with GT6 itself.

Even if every PS4 owner traded in their PS3 to finance the deal there would still have been something in the order of 65 million installed user base.

Lack of hype will have played its part and lack of appetite after GT5 will have played a part.
 
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I still look at GameStop's prices for Gran Turismo 6 and cannot help but think badly about it.

It's about time we get numbers of any sort; I was wondering why PoDi's company page wasn't being updated with GT6 sales numbers.
 
Tired Tyres
I think somehow trying to link less that 25% sales of it predecessor in the case of GT6 to overall sales drops is trying to pretend there wasn't a very real problem with GT6 itself.
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Which still ignores the three pertinent questions. Why are other racing games suffering the same loss of audience too, what are the people who didn't buy GT6 buying if they're not buying other racing games and why are other games in general suffering a loss of audience?


Have a crack at finding a game which was released in 2014 or 2015 that sold better than a predecessor released between 2010 and 2013. The nearest I can get is FIFA 15 (2014), which just about equalled FIFA 14 (2013) with around 10m - but FIFA 13 (2012) sold 30% higher!
 
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Yeap I posted on the news comments... the numbers are from before November 2014 but seems like my comments are blocked lol

SlipZtrEm
These are the real numbers.
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They are real but before November 2014... way outdated.
 
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cutmeamango
It's not from November 2014 and it's not from Sony, it's from the research from Virag's representatives.

The docket 23 from november is not in reference to the 23rd allegation from the first docket (complaint).

https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/cand/286737/

The original complaint filled in July 31st, 2014 already contained those numbers.
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Yeah this is correct, if you look at the top of the docket filling you easily can see the date in blue as just specified by Mango. Thus the info is a year old at least from what court proceedings show.

MXHyland
Truly a game changer. I'm sure GT6 managed to rake up an additional 7 million units sold by now.
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How so?
 
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MXHyland
Truly a game changer. I'm sure GT6 managed to rake up an additional 7 million units sold by now.
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Nope. The vast majority of game sales are in the first few months, specifically the first 30 days. If the numbers are accurate for 2014, it's likely that GT6 has only sold several hundred thousand units since then.
 

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