GT6 Sales Discussion

[sirjim73]

Grid didn't sell - less than a million copies. FH & FH2 didn't sell. Shift (and Shift 2) is an NFS game and, as I've pointed out twice now, NFS has been leaking sales since 2005. Shift 2 barely broke a million sales when all platforms were added up. The original Shift just about managed 5m all in.

You could add up all copies of Grid, FH and FH2 and just about get GT6's sales, give or take a couple hundred thousand.It also came out in 2009 - which is before the period of time I'm talking about. NFS: Hot Pursuit is roughly a peer with GT5 and FM4 and makes the situation worse, not better.

But if you insist:
NFSHP, FM4 and GT5 - broadly peers as they were on direct rival consoles and came out fairly close to each other (okay, 11 months) - sold pretty much 21m between them, with just under 10m of those being month 1 sales.

Rivals is 2m down on HP. FM5 is 2.5m down on FM4. GT6 is 8m down on GT5. Where are the other games selling the 12.5m copies these three games have lost?

Driveclub accounts for 2m. PCARS for 1m. Where's the other 9m? Have they all gone to PC and bought iRacing and Assetto Corsa - only the online subscriber numbers don't reflect that (55k for iRacing!).

I should make it clear that I don't have any links to back this up, this is just speculation, although I don't think it is unreasonable. I would therefore add 3 comments in relation to this:

1) The world crashed in 2008 and disposable income has reduced by 10%+ in the period since then, meaning that everyone has less money to go out and buy games generally. Many people continued on for a year hoping the problem would go away but then suddenly found that it didn't. All the gamers I know, that used to buy atleast one game every month, now buy one or two a year. Rather than buying PCars, NFS and GT6, they buy only one of those games. On this basis, the number of games sold for each title would decrease.
2) No one has commented on the huge increase in mobile games in that period and the squeeze on the traditional console gaming market as a result. New gamers in the last 6 years are much more likely to play mobile games than those before them. The console gamer is also getting older (isn't the average age of a gamer now 36?) and less likely to play multiple games as other commitments get in the way.
3) GTA 5 released on 17 September 2013 and sold 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 copies (slight exaggeration but you get my point). Everyone bought GTA 5 in September. If they could only afford one game, as many could, that was it. We mustn't underestimate the effect that one game had on everything else released in October, November, December 2013 and the first 6 months of 2014.

Expanding on your interesting comparison of driving game sales in that period, I wonder what the level of overall console game sales was in the corresponding period. Based on my personal experience and admittedly anecdotal evidence, I suspect that the overall level of console game sales was also significantly lower, i.e. that the decline is in console game sales overall (excluding GTA 5) rather than just driving games themselves. I would be interested to know if anyone knows where to check this.

 

[GT6mebe]

Its pretty much confirmed that they used VGChartz for the numbers.

 

[MXH]

Nope. The vast majority of game sales are in the first few months, specifically the first 30 days. If the numbers are accurate for 2014, it's likely that GT6 has only sold several hundred thousand units since then.

Oh, come on JP. I didn't expect you, of all people, to fall for that.

 

[drivatar]

It's not from November 2014 and it's not from Sony, it's from the research from Virag's representatives.

The docket 23 from november is not in reference to the 23rd allegation from the first docket (complaint).

https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/cand/286737/

The original complaint filled in July 31st, 2014 already contained those numbers.

If Virag's representatives turned out VGCharts lol

News should be fixed then:

SCEA shared GT6 sales statistics with the Northern District Court of California. Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler’s ruling in the court documents show this number to be 2.37 million copies for GT6

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-6-sales-revealed-at-2-37-million-copies/

More like "Virag looked at vgchartz.com" .

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1106330&page=9

 

[Zelalem]

Case closed then

 

[nocturnalgrey]

Even though the sales numbers used in the court case are over a year old, PDI has yet to publish them on their official site. That tells me that the sales are still far below expectations.

 

[ethomaz]

Even though the sales numbers used in the court case are over a year old, PDI has yet to publish them on their official site. That tells me that the sales are still far below expectations.

The sales showed in the document are proved to come from VGChartz in July 2014... nothing official.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Proven? Just because the numbers are almost the same? You are jumping to conclusions mate. It's a court document. You don't make mistakes in them if you can help it.

 

[cutmeamango]

The sales showed in the document are proved to come from VGChartz in July 2014... nothing official.

Good job finding the docket with the original filing.

Proven? Just because the numbers are almost the same? You are jumping to conclusions mate. It's a court document. You don't make mistakes in them if you can help it.

It's a complaint filing. You can find complaints against God, against aliens, and even complaints using forum posts as incidental evidence of copyright infringement.

The court won't check every allegation present, just the claims of rights being violated.

EDIT: By the way, there's nothing wittingly wrong or mistaken in quoting VGChartz.

 

[MXH]

The sales showed in the document are proved to come from VGChartz in July 2014... nothing official.

I assume you can guess why that is? It's obvious that sales have been far below expectations. I doubt we will hear anything official from Sony/PD for a long time to come.

 

[ethomaz]

Proven? Just because the numbers are almost the same? You are jumping to conclusions mate. It's a court document. You don't make mistakes in them if you can help it.

You mean EXACTLY the same... not almost.

I assume you can guess why that is? It's obvious that sales have been far below expectations. I doubt we will hear anything official from Sony/PD for a long time to come.

Yeap... from the NPD and GFK trackers at launch you have a picture that GT6 sold way less than GT5 fro example.
Like 30% of GT5 sales at launch... big drop.

 

[Tornado]

Well, that was a waste of time then.

 

[Tired Tyres]

You mean EXACTLY the same... not almost.


Yeap... from the NPD and GFK trackers at launch you have a picture that GT6 sold way less than GT5 fro example.
Like 30% of GT5 sales at launch... big drop.

2.36 is not 2.37. Anyway if it is a VGCharts thing then it is all null and void anyway.

 

[NLxAROSA]

If the numbers really are from vgchartz then they mean nothing as vgchartz is notoriously unreliable.

Driveclub accounts for 2m. PCARS for 1m. Where's the other 7m? Have they all gone to PC and bought iRacing and Assetto Corsa - only the online subscriber numbers don't reflect that (55k for iRacing!).

If you check SteamSpy for AC (fairly accurate) you'll see that it's around 268k owners.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

Even though the sales numbers used in the court case are over a year old, PDI has yet to publish them on their official site. That tells me that the sales are still far below expectations.

The sales showed in the document are proved to come from VGChartz in July 2014... nothing official.

I believe that is what I said.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well, that was a waste of time then.

Indeed it was, would love actually to get the actual sales numbers, I bet we're at 3.2> probably.

 

[GT6mebe]

Considering 2.5 million downloaded that car last year and the DL ratio would be absurdly high in other cases, I reckon GT6 has sold 4 million+

Its worth noting that PS3 software sales have utterly collapsed with the introduction of the PS4.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The surprising thing to me is that they wouldn't request from the court for Sony to give official numbers at that time. Rather using an outside source that doesn't actually track such things in house day one.

 

[jimipitbull]

The surprising thing to me is that they wouldn't request from the court for Sony to give official numbers at that time. Rather using an outside source that doesn't actually track such things in house day one.

I'd say the whole case is just a publicity stunt. But the court would first look to see if there is grounds for compensation - if there isn't the numbers don't matter.

 

[cutmeamango]

The surprising thing to me is that they wouldn't request from the court for Sony to give official numbers at that time. Rather using an outside source that doesn't actually track such things in house day one.

I told you this:

But this process is/was still valuating motions to grant or dismiss the claims. It's possible but unlikely that a court would ask a private company to disclose private information before that.

Sales numbers don't indicate if there is damage, but how bad the damage is.
So they have no bearing on valuating the claims.

 

[Zlork]

I was very surprised because VGChartz is always (much) lower than the real figures.

Now I am relieved, I still think the numbers reach 4-5 million.

Thank you to detectives.

 

[mister dog]

- Publicity stunt
- Racing games not popular anymore
- PS4

Anyone else has an excuse?

 

[Tired Tyres]

A couple of notes to add.

The first 6 months 2014 European sales are 438,480. This not useful as it isn't the important December 2013 number when maybe 50% of game sales happen. This does not count Digital sales.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824&

First month Japanese sales are 282,686. This is the December 2013 number. That can be effectively doubled for lifetime sales in Japan. This does not count Digital sales.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=759941&

This page.

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

Which has not been updated since the launch of GT6 was updated as a webpage. A link to the Pitstop site was added to the top right of the page. Therefore they have deliberately not updated the sales numbers.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I told you this:


Sales numbers don't indicate if there is damage, but how bad the damage is.
So they have no bearing on valuating the claims.

No where did I say they do tell you how bad damages are, but usually when you want to get the most money out of the person your suing for whatever wrong doings, you put it through the courts to get official figures. If these figures are lower than what Sony knows GT6 made, then there is no reason to give data cause that only shoots them in the foot unless the courts ask for Sony to corroborate such data.

I know what you told me, but at the time it wasn't verified until someone posted what they did and I actually looked into it myself and came to the conclusion you did. The issue I'm having is the part where your being a bit coy about the fact that yes you ended up being right, though were at the time just as much in the unknown as the rest of us. And now when some one tells you you were right after disagreeing with you originally, that's not enough?

To be fair though, what you ended up being right about is time frame numbers were obtained. In the end these do seem to come from a place like vgchartz and if that's the case we're all in the same area we were before this news broke, and that means we're all no where when it comes to knowing how good or bad the game sold.

 

[cutmeamango]

No where did I say they do tell you how bad damages are, but usually when you want to get the most money out of the person your suing for whatever wrong doings, you put it through the courts to get official figures. If these figures are lower than what Sony knows GT6 made, then there is no reason to give data cause that only shoots them in the foot unless the courts ask for Sony to corroborate such data.

I was just telling you why they couldn't/wouldn't ask for Sony's sales numbers before (if) this litigation advances, not being coy or anything more than that.

---

Having not checked the whole topic:

GT6 sales in Japan as of 28/06/15:

367.267 + 31k > x > 0 - From Famitsu's Top 100.

December 2013 France:
145k - GfK via Gamekult

December 2013 (maybe first week of january too) Spain + Portugal:
100k - Sony via Eurogamer.pt

 

[AKps3]

GT6 got 2 BIU awards(Germany)
December 2013 over 100.000 sold(gold)
http://www.biu-online.de/de/presse/...ten-computer-und-videospiele-im-dezember.html
January 2014 over 200.000 sold(platin)
http://www.biu-online.de/de/presse/...hsten-computer-und-videospiele-im-januar.html

 

[Tired Tyres]

I was just telling you why they couldn't/wouldn't ask for Sony's sales numbers before (if) this litigation advances, not being coy or anything more than that.

---

Having not checked the whole topic:

GT6 sales in Japan as of 28/06/15:

367.267 + 31k > x > 0 - From Famitsu's Top 100.

December 2013 France:
145k - GfK via Gamekult

December 2013 (maybe first week of january too) Spain + Portugal:
100k - Sony via Eurogamer.pt

To add to that. Possible 9,195 Digital sales in Japan.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845222&

However it doesn't feature at all in the top 100 of 2015 first 6 months.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1091220&

 

[Fat Tyre]

- Publicity stunt
- Racing games not popular anymore
- PS4

Anyone else has an excuse?

-Standard cars (for me at least )

 

[Johnnypenso]

I was very surprised because VGChartz is always (much) lower than the real figures.

Now I am relieved, I still think the numbers reach 4-5 million.

Thank you to detectives.

So VGChartz is always inaccurate but you can still make accurate sales estimates from their inaccuracy. Makes perfect sense.

 

[ethomaz]

About Japan... PD received a double prize for GT6 had sold over 500k in Japan in December 2014.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/12/03/gran-turismo-7-for-ps4-might-debut-at-playstation-experience/

"Today Gran Turismo 6 won a Gold Prize at the PlayStation Awards for selling more than 500,000 copies in Japan"

The Lead Engineer Shuichi Takano received the award for PD.