GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion
- Thread starter gti_sdn
- 553 comments
- 137,962 views
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,051
- N Ireland
Yes indeed, an approach that is scalable....
Starting with 2 BDS is possible but we find 6 BDS on back of seat is an excellent starting point to experience advanced tactile.
Ive been working on cable solutions and offering nice ideas on how to install such but these will be things coming in a guide.
More people are getting interested and curious.
For me personally tactile itself is a hobby on its own and its been said that I like to piooner with ideas or explore with things not seen or maybe tried before.
My own new rig build will set a high standard with tactile, these exciters are only the beginning!!!
Starting with 2 BDS is possible but we find 6 BDS on back of seat is an excellent starting point to experience advanced tactile.
Ive been working on cable solutions and offering nice ideas on how to install such but these will be things coming in a guide.
More people are getting interested and curious.
For me personally tactile itself is a hobby on its own and its been said that I like to piooner with ideas or explore with things not seen or maybe tried before.
My own new rig build will set a high standard with tactile, these exciters are only the beginning!!!
Attachments
Last edited:
- 12
- Milan
- luigilauro
To @Mr Latte and all the other experts here 
Started GT7 recently with a full tactile setup. Specifically I have a Buttkicker Gamer Pro, the NLR HF8 and the 3DRap Feeling Pro installed on a Playseat Challenge with a full Logitech G Pro setup (wheel, pedals, old H shifter, new seq shifter and handbrake).
So basically 15 different feedback channels
I play with a PS5 Pro + PSVR2 and the goal is maximum immersion on GT7, while having as many "info" as possible to drive, but without sacrificing immersion. All of course in connection via USB to a SimHub surface tablet, I'm not using any "audio" connection.
I see on SimHub there are so many different effects and it's unclear to me which ones "works best" for GT7 telemetry, and which feedback channel would be better to convey the specific effects, how it makes the most sense to "distribute" the different effects across all the 15 feedback channels.
Could you advise me on which effects to focus on for a max immersion setup and "where" to put the different effects? For example I heard BK is best for gear change / "strong" road impacts / RPMs, while of course the "traction loss" effects should be put on the throttle rumble motor while "breaking" effect on the brake pedal one, but there are so many (TC Active, Wheels Slip, Lock, Spin & Lock, etc..), some are localized some not, and also my feedbacks some are simple (rumble motors under pedals) some are partially localized (Front / Back 3DRap, but no Left Right), some are fully localized (HF8, with 8x motors)
Roughly speaking I was thinking of going for:
1) Throttle pedal: best wheel slip / traction loss effect, but don't know which ones are the best for this etc...
2) Brake pedal: since ABS is not available on GT7, best "wheel lock" / traction loss on braking effect
3) Buttkicker: gear shift kick, RPMs / engine (how), "strong" road impacts
4) 3DRap Feeling Pro + HF8: all the localized effects such wheel slip/lock, "weak" impacts, road texture / vibration etc...
5) Wind Fans: this is easy, speed with curving ofc, with a minimum speed for immersion and staying cool in PSVR2
Even a rough recommendation on where to start would be VERY appreciated: like ignore this effect which works poorly in GT7, while put this on the throttle which works best, or like effects X is better on buttkicker, while the localized Y effect is better use on the HF8 or 3DRap rumble motors, etc. etc. etc.. I will work out the single effects myself, I want more some suggestions / recommendation to avoid having to test everything from scratch, just any help that would point me in the right direction on where to start to save time.
Also if there is any SimHub settings that could be available to download for my setup which would be a good "start" instead of starting from scratch, please point me to it/them!
Please no "sell the buttkicker and buy these 97x trasducers etc...". I know there may better setups or even better way to use the money, but I have very little time on my hands and I wanted something "plugin" for console use: buy, easy mount, plugin, configure effect on SimHub, with no tinkering needed. Also having a "soft" hammock-like seat on Playseat Trophy which I love, my options for transducers would be limited anyways, the best proxy to that is indeed the HF8 which I integrated into the seat.
Much appreciated, thanks to everyone that may contribute!
Started GT7 recently with a full tactile setup. Specifically I have a Buttkicker Gamer Pro, the NLR HF8 and the 3DRap Feeling Pro installed on a Playseat Challenge with a full Logitech G Pro setup (wheel, pedals, old H shifter, new seq shifter and handbrake).
So basically 15 different feedback channels
- Buttkicker Gamer Pro (installed right under my seat with a crossbar)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Channel 1x2 - Rear (2x rumble motors installed on 2 front legs of the playseat)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Channel 2 - Throttle (rumble motors installed under the throttle)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Channel 3x2 - Front (2x rumble motors installed on 2 rear legs of the playseat)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Channel 4 - Break (rumble motors installed under the brake)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Fan L (wind fan pointing to my face from the left)
- 3DRap Feeling Pro - Fan R (wind fan pointing to my face from the right)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Seat FR (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Seat FL (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Seat RR (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Seat RL (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Back LR (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Back LL (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Back HR (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
- Next Level Racing HF8 - Back HL (the 8 rumble motors in the HF8)
I play with a PS5 Pro + PSVR2 and the goal is maximum immersion on GT7, while having as many "info" as possible to drive, but without sacrificing immersion. All of course in connection via USB to a SimHub surface tablet, I'm not using any "audio" connection.
I see on SimHub there are so many different effects and it's unclear to me which ones "works best" for GT7 telemetry, and which feedback channel would be better to convey the specific effects, how it makes the most sense to "distribute" the different effects across all the 15 feedback channels.
Could you advise me on which effects to focus on for a max immersion setup and "where" to put the different effects? For example I heard BK is best for gear change / "strong" road impacts / RPMs, while of course the "traction loss" effects should be put on the throttle rumble motor while "breaking" effect on the brake pedal one, but there are so many (TC Active, Wheels Slip, Lock, Spin & Lock, etc..), some are localized some not, and also my feedbacks some are simple (rumble motors under pedals) some are partially localized (Front / Back 3DRap, but no Left Right), some are fully localized (HF8, with 8x motors)
Roughly speaking I was thinking of going for:
1) Throttle pedal: best wheel slip / traction loss effect, but don't know which ones are the best for this etc...
2) Brake pedal: since ABS is not available on GT7, best "wheel lock" / traction loss on braking effect
3) Buttkicker: gear shift kick, RPMs / engine (how), "strong" road impacts
4) 3DRap Feeling Pro + HF8: all the localized effects such wheel slip/lock, "weak" impacts, road texture / vibration etc...
5) Wind Fans: this is easy, speed with curving ofc, with a minimum speed for immersion and staying cool in PSVR2
Even a rough recommendation on where to start would be VERY appreciated: like ignore this effect which works poorly in GT7, while put this on the throttle which works best, or like effects X is better on buttkicker, while the localized Y effect is better use on the HF8 or 3DRap rumble motors, etc. etc. etc.. I will work out the single effects myself, I want more some suggestions / recommendation to avoid having to test everything from scratch, just any help that would point me in the right direction on where to start to save time.
Also if there is any SimHub settings that could be available to download for my setup which would be a good "start" instead of starting from scratch, please point me to it/them!
Please no "sell the buttkicker and buy these 97x trasducers etc...". I know there may better setups or even better way to use the money, but I have very little time on my hands and I wanted something "plugin" for console use: buy, easy mount, plugin, configure effect on SimHub, with no tinkering needed. Also having a "soft" hammock-like seat on Playseat Trophy which I love, my options for transducers would be limited anyways, the best proxy to that is indeed the HF8 which I integrated into the seat.
Much appreciated, thanks to everyone that may contribute!
Last edited:
- 12
- Milan
- luigilauro
I have it, the Pro Full Advanced version with fans, but still have to configure / test it properly. Will report back once I doIs anyone using the 3DRap rumble kit? I searched the thread, but didn't see it mentioned. Opinions?
3DRap Feeling PRO [Generic, nGASa, TLCM, T3PA, T3PM, Logitech, DC, CSL, SR-P, SimJack, Heusinkveld, CP5, LC100] (PC, SimHUB) | 3DRap
3DRap Feeling PRO Kit - Customize Your Simracing Experience to the Fullest! / 3DRap Feeling Upgrade Kit - Personalizza la Tua Esperienza di Simracing al Massimo Livello! Full compatibility from SimHub 9.5.4 onwards!www.3drap.it
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,051
- N Ireland
@luigilauro
I dont think its possible to contribute that much because "Simhub Shakeit" with motors is not the same as applying "Simhub Bass Shaker". Very different hardware too and much more restricted, regards frequencies.
You highlight some interesting aspects though...
Lots of companies will sell you something, for tactile or haptic solutions. Yet when it comes to enjoying it with ready to go profiles with good effects sensations. These are often just not something that comes with the product. The user maybe finds they have a lot of work to do within Simhub and experimentation or learning. Some solutions will give you basic effects but I am sorry you spent that amount of money on HF8 and 3DRap, to now find yourself in that situation.
Your best bet is to too see if their is some official forum or discord group etc for owners of those specific products you have.
Maybe others with the product can help with settings and effects they already worked on.
The solution we are working on, can be pretty good with even 2 units and while the approach is expandable.
97 is maybe a bit too many, but at least effects are being made specifically for GT7 to suit the BDS units own operational characteristics and abilities.
I dont think its possible to contribute that much because "Simhub Shakeit" with motors is not the same as applying "Simhub Bass Shaker". Very different hardware too and much more restricted, regards frequencies.
You highlight some interesting aspects though...
Lots of companies will sell you something, for tactile or haptic solutions. Yet when it comes to enjoying it with ready to go profiles with good effects sensations. These are often just not something that comes with the product. The user maybe finds they have a lot of work to do within Simhub and experimentation or learning. Some solutions will give you basic effects but I am sorry you spent that amount of money on HF8 and 3DRap, to now find yourself in that situation.
Your best bet is to too see if their is some official forum or discord group etc for owners of those specific products you have.
Maybe others with the product can help with settings and effects they already worked on.
The solution we are working on, can be pretty good with even 2 units and while the approach is expandable.
97 is maybe a bit too many, but at least effects are being made specifically for GT7 to suit the BDS units own operational characteristics and abilities.
Last edited:
Hey Guys,
I’ve been watching this thread on and off for a year and a half or so, and have been very interested in adding tactile to my Playseat Challenge rig, and thought I’d ask for some feedback for my current ideas. For now, a foldable rig is required for my space, so the Challenge is what I have to work with.
After chatting with q445187 (sorry, don’t know how to “tag” you) a bit, I decided to start my journey, and today I bought my first exciters! I’ve given this quite a bit of thought…perhaps too much. I want a clean installation, and I need for the Playseat to remain foldable and stowable. I am going to first try a Ram Mounts solution for, well, mounting the exciters to the Playseat’s frame for an overall sense of feedback. Here are the mouting components I’ve ordered, one of each (for now) for each side:
ocmounts.com
ocmounts.com
ocmounts.com
And these are the exciters (thanks, q445187!):
The exciters (one per side, for now) will be attached to the IMS mount, or “screw-on cap”, via screws in pre-drilled pilot holes, directly to the “round base”, which will attach to the “short double socket arm”, which will attach to the “handlebar/rail base”, which will then (and finally) be attached to the Playseat Challenge’s frame. This, in theory, will provide a solid connection between the exciters and frame. At a (hopefully) sooner-rather-than-later date, I’m also going to experiment with using another round plate (identical to the one I’m mounting the exciters on), connected to the same arm assembly as the transducer, to apply light pressure through the seat’s fabric for more localized feedback.
I’m a complete noob, and have never used SimHub before. I’m currently looking at the Nobsound M5.1 for future amplification, and a Startech soundcard (again, thanks q445187!), but for now - Question 1 - Will my PC’s basic soundcard and a stereo hifi amp work for testing these two exciters to see if this will work, and if it is, in fact, a rabbit hole I want to dive into head-first? Also, I’m hoping to gain a little more understanding of the purpose of localizing the effects. Granted, I’ve never driven a race car, and PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong, but the cars I HAVE driven have never, to my recollection, given me stereo feedback through the seat. Through the floorboard, maybe, but not the seat. I realize that racing seats aren’t near as cushy as passenger vehicles’ seats, so I am 100% open to being corrected. So - Question 2 - Is the purpose of localizing these effects to create an accurate simulation of the feel of driving a real car, or to provide tactile feedback that increases awareness of what’s going on with the vehicle, and increases a sense of immersion, but at the same time not being an accurate simulation? I’m super excited to start this tactile journey, and I look forward to your feedback. Cheers!
I’ve been watching this thread on and off for a year and a half or so, and have been very interested in adding tactile to my Playseat Challenge rig, and thought I’d ask for some feedback for my current ideas. For now, a foldable rig is required for my space, so the Challenge is what I have to work with.
After chatting with q445187 (sorry, don’t know how to “tag” you) a bit, I decided to start my journey, and today I bought my first exciters! I’ve given this quite a bit of thought…perhaps too much. I want a clean installation, and I need for the Playseat to remain foldable and stowable. I am going to first try a Ram Mounts solution for, well, mounting the exciters to the Playseat’s frame for an overall sense of feedback. Here are the mouting components I’ve ordered, one of each (for now) for each side:
RAM® Torque™ 3/4" - 1" Diameter Handlebar/Rail Base with 1" Ball - RAM-B-408-75-1U
The RAM® Torque™ handlebar and rail mounting base has a 1” rubber ball and accommodates bars ¾” to 1” in diameter. Sizing inserts are included to provide a snug fit and protection of the rail. The mount utilizes nylon-insert locknuts to prevent loosening in high vibration environments. Specs &...
ocmounts.com
RAM Composite Short Double Socket Arm for 1" Balls - RAP-B-201-A
The RAP-B-201U-A, short double socket arm, has a socket at both ends that accommodates 1" ball bases. RAM socket technology allows for almost infinite adjustment and perfect viewing angles. (This product does not include single spring) Dimensions: Overall Length: 2.38"Socket-To-Socket Length: 2"...
ocmounts.com
RAM 2.5" Composite Round Base with the AMPs Hole Pattern & 1" Ball - RAP-B-202U
The RAP-B-202U composite base has a versatile 1" ball for precise mounting that fits your needs. Order your rugged tech mounts online from OC Mounts today.
ocmounts.com
And these are the exciters (thanks, q445187!):
Dayton Audio Mid-bass Audio Exciter IMS Mount 32mm 40W 4 Ohm EX32VBDS-4
Dayton Audio Mid-bass Audio Exciter IMS Mount 32mm 40W 4 Ohm EX32VBDS-4Dayton Audio EX32VBDS-4 IMS™ Mid-bass Exciter 40W 4 Ohm The Dayton Audio EX32VBDS-4 was meticulously engineered to optimize output in the often-challenging lower frequency spectrum. This state-of-the-art exciter exceeds the...
www.parts-express.com
The exciters (one per side, for now) will be attached to the IMS mount, or “screw-on cap”, via screws in pre-drilled pilot holes, directly to the “round base”, which will attach to the “short double socket arm”, which will attach to the “handlebar/rail base”, which will then (and finally) be attached to the Playseat Challenge’s frame. This, in theory, will provide a solid connection between the exciters and frame. At a (hopefully) sooner-rather-than-later date, I’m also going to experiment with using another round plate (identical to the one I’m mounting the exciters on), connected to the same arm assembly as the transducer, to apply light pressure through the seat’s fabric for more localized feedback.
I’m a complete noob, and have never used SimHub before. I’m currently looking at the Nobsound M5.1 for future amplification, and a Startech soundcard (again, thanks q445187!), but for now - Question 1 - Will my PC’s basic soundcard and a stereo hifi amp work for testing these two exciters to see if this will work, and if it is, in fact, a rabbit hole I want to dive into head-first? Also, I’m hoping to gain a little more understanding of the purpose of localizing the effects. Granted, I’ve never driven a race car, and PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong, but the cars I HAVE driven have never, to my recollection, given me stereo feedback through the seat. Through the floorboard, maybe, but not the seat. I realize that racing seats aren’t near as cushy as passenger vehicles’ seats, so I am 100% open to being corrected. So - Question 2 - Is the purpose of localizing these effects to create an accurate simulation of the feel of driving a real car, or to provide tactile feedback that increases awareness of what’s going on with the vehicle, and increases a sense of immersion, but at the same time not being an accurate simulation? I’m super excited to start this tactile journey, and I look forward to your feedback. Cheers!
Last edited:
- 42
- Blanket, Tx
- q445187
You are welcome!
#1 - Racing seats aren't as cushy, race cars have little or no insulation so everything vibrates everywhere.
#2 - Yes it is, No, it's not... lol... As far as the accurate simulation part, MY goal is to place effects where they "make sense", IE, where it will feel like you ARE in a car, so for ME I am all about "accurate" simulation. Not everyone is like that, they may want their teeth to always rattle so when their friends come over they are awestruck for the 10 minutes they "drive", and they will probably not drive much after that. I do LOTS of seat time, have a little real world experience, and am about subtlety and accuracy (reality) not teeth rattling.
Not all cars, tires, suspensions, tracks, etc. react the same, so it may take me a week or (much) more to tune an effect, I never stop fiddling...
#1 - Racing seats aren't as cushy, race cars have little or no insulation so everything vibrates everywhere.
#2 - Yes it is, No, it's not... lol... As far as the accurate simulation part, MY goal is to place effects where they "make sense", IE, where it will feel like you ARE in a car, so for ME I am all about "accurate" simulation. Not everyone is like that, they may want their teeth to always rattle so when their friends come over they are awestruck for the 10 minutes they "drive", and they will probably not drive much after that. I do LOTS of seat time, have a little real world experience, and am about subtlety and accuracy (reality) not teeth rattling.
Not all cars, tires, suspensions, tracks, etc. react the same, so it may take me a week or (much) more to tune an effect, I never stop fiddling...
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,051
- N Ireland
Willing to help, but kind of have concerns too.
The RaceBass approach I have been sharing seeks to eliminate the common scenario that people find in that they buy hardware they install it and then they cannot get effects to work well at all. The person maybe is new, has no clue, its frustrating confusing and does little to let people enjoy it.
I am very confident in what my own work in effects with this different approach, regards how it will compare to others.
Sure we still have improvements to make with effects tuning but these are being developed to suit peoples preferences and yet perform to the highest standards inline with the performance benefits the selected hardware can achieve. This is a key element, because a lot of work in how I create effects requires the desired installation.
As you have read, the BDS model is used for specific performance reasons, the recommended soundcard and amps have also been tried/compared to other options.
I did not just randomly say okay this, this and this will do. I am focused on delivering a solution that is affordable but its also important for me, that people get to experience the effects to how they are made to operate and were developed by people using that exact hardware installed in the intended ways. The benefit with this is, that somone should be able to one day just load a RaceBass profile into Simhub for their RaceBass configuration and it will work as intended, delivering a fuss free experience to a standard that is better than many common approaches.
Its not certain how or what you will feel with that seat and mounts you plan to use.
I still think you will enjoy tactile and be impressed and my hope would be that from the early experiences you get, that it encourages you to want more.
The effects I have will often need more than one unit and rely on more than one body region.
However I have considered that from these more complexed effects being made, I scale them down to having (basic) options that work or are intended for just stereo pairs.
That might help you out to some extent but I am moving away from the "I have this other amp and this soundcard" so "Can I try your effects Mr Latte". I get this often in DM. The approach I offer is not to appeal to everyone, it has to stay focused on the elements the approach requires and is based on.
In helping with effects, each person is asked to show they have the desired BDS units, the amp and the soundcard as recommended.
With that then it places you in a position and if willing to help to experience to some extent what is being worked on.
Still have reservations to how well things may work for you though.
Last edited:
This is from a post you made quite a while ago, but perfectly encapsulates what I’d like to do. I’m still catching up on my reading, but came across this.
I have some ideas, and am interested in trying to implement a multi-exciter solution for this type of rig. My current thoughts for a design involve the use of a sort of exoskeleton using PVC, attached to the frame, but suspended behind the seat. The transducers would be attached to this “exoskeleton”, with the round plates I mentioned in my previous post providing localized points of contact in different body regions. The flexibility of the PVC would provide comfort and the ability to conform to the users shape, while still providing the needed pressure to transfer energy from the exciters. This is all “in theory“ and “in process” (as my thoughts on it change daily), and will require testing, but MIGHT provide a solution for a foldable/stowable rig.
I sent you a DM, by the way, that includes a couple of questions about “required“ hardware.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,051
- N Ireland
Been catching up with a few things so not got back to uour DM.
I understand you have limited space, can you not consider an office chair type solution that uses a hardback sim seat which can be used like a normal desk type chair.Then fixed in place for sim rig usage?
I understand you have limited space, can you not consider an office chair type solution that uses a hardback sim seat which can be used like a normal desk type chair.Then fixed in place for sim rig usage?
Last edited:
I could, yes. If I’m completely honest, though, that idea sounds TERRIBLE, lol 😁. I quite like the feel of slipping into my “racing seat”, and I feel like using an office chair setup would take away from some of the immersion we are trying to achieve, though maybe not in the tactile realm. Plus, I’m excited for the challenge. You seem pretty convinced, though, that my experience with this won’t be up to your standards. I appreciate that you care about how people experience RaceBass. The fact that you’re so dedicated to it is what is so appealing. Since I have no previous tactile experience to compare it to, it’s quite likely I won’t be disappointed. In fact, I’ll probably be blown away.
Last edited:
Similar threads
