GT7 & E3

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Le Mans de 24h is this weekend. Kaz may go there instead of E3.

GT7 at E3 is a must business wise. Sony and PD can't afford losing any more ground to competition like PCars (which is here already) and AC. Morpheus support demo ready or not.

... but then again, Sony and PD has pulled some dumb things with GT as of late.
 
Tornado
I don't think Sony would throw together an E3 conference for GT at the last minute to co-opt a game most people haven't even heard of.
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Do yoiu think that Sony didn't know about Assetto Corsa? Yeah, for the majority of players is Assetto Corsa nothing like GT,but when there won't be anything out about GT, they will obviously look at something else, like now they do with PC
 
play3man
Do yoiu think that Sony didn't know about Assetto Corsa? Yeah, for the majority of players is Assetto Corsa nothing like GT,but when there won't be anything out about GT, they will obviously look at something else, like now they do with PC
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IIRC AC sold about 200k units on PC. That's 2.0% of GT5 sales and is a niche game in a niche target market. Sony is more interested in appealing to the very casual player and that's a very different approach than a pure racing sim done really well.

Tenacious D
I'm curious what people's reactions will be to Assetto Corsa, when they find out that the racing is similar to GT5 and 6, with a hoard of lackluster bots and then one or two rabbits to chase. If they feel like being rabbits anyhow. ;) The physics are nice, but the racing is about as exciting as GT.
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You've mentioned AC rabbits a number of times and I don't race offline in AC, but there is a new thread in the AC forum promoting "clean" race videos so I watched the video against the AI to see how bad this AC AI was. This screenshot is 19 minutes into the race, entering the Parabolica for the last time. There are 7 cars on the screen (1-2-1-3) all within 7 seconds and the GT-R (the rabbit with a 1 second lead)is the lead car. All on the same tires, same spec, all running at the same pace in the corners and in the straigthts.. no nerfing or tire degrading needed...for 20 minutes. Mentioning the GT AI in the same sentence as AC AI is like comparing a goldfish to a whale and saying they are both the same because they live in water and swim.

upload_2015-6-8_10-11-42.png


Full video here
 
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Johnnypenso
IIRC AC sold about 200k units on PC. That's 2.0% of GT5 sales and is a niche game in a niche target market. Sony is more interested in appealing to the very casual player and that's a very different approach than a pure racing sim done really well.
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Yes, you're right, but the console market is different. We will see next week :)
 
play3man
Yes, you're right, but the console market is different. We will see next week :)
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It's not "but" the console market is different, the console market being different from the pc market is my point actually. There have been many great sim racing games on pc over the years but GT has never had to pay any attention to them because the market for them is tiny and because the console player is a more casual player, many of whom are turned on by different things and let's face it, are less fussy about the accurate representation of the cars in the game. Hence why I would say they could care less about AC or any other pure pc racing sim.
 
Johnnypenso
Mentioning the GT AI in the same sentence as AC AI is like comparing a goldfish to a whale and saying they are both the same because they live in water and swim.
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I think we found @Johnnypenso 's weakness guys :lol:L:lol:
Btw i'm really looking forward this year Le Mans, who knows maybe we'll get a LM seasonal even if i'm really expecting wonders during the actual race with porsche audi toyota and nissan leadin the pack:drool:
 
play3man
Do yoiu think that Sony didn't know about Assetto Corsa? Yeah, for the majority of players is Assetto Corsa nothing like GT,but when there won't be anything out about GT, they will obviously look at something else, like now they do with PC
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I think Sony isn't threatened by AC enough that they would put in a last minute addition to their E3 conference just because a console port was announced. If tons of people buy a GT-esque game in the interim period (possibly long) before a GT game actually comes out it doesn't really hurt then any.
 
Johnnypenso
There have been many great sim racing games on pc over the years but GT has never had to pay any attention to them because the market for them is tiny and because the console player is a more casual player
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GT has never had to pay any attention to them mainly because they were PC only titles. And yes, console player is a more casual player, but what impact it will have on the actual sales of AC? We don't know. They also can create more "casual" option for people who would buy AC only for simple racing with gamepad.

Tornado
I think Sony isn't threatened by AC enough that they would put in a last minute addition to their E3 conference just because a console port was announced.
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Sony didn't get to know that AC is coming to PS4 during the last week. They know this for months.

You all are right about they no need to worry about Assetto Corsa, because AC is a real simulator for hardcore PC players. But the important part of GT5+ is also physic and AC is far better in it. Yes, most of GT players are casual players, the console comunity is more casual in racing games, but this is something that AC devs are avare of. And because of that, they will definitely try to balance gameplay on DS4.
 
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I would question Console gamers being more casual. By far the most popular game on PC is minesweeper, if I recall correctly.

Anyway on a serious note, they won't "balance" anything. Assetto Corsa on PC already has pretty good Xbox360 controller play. You do not need a wheel to enjoy it. That's it's better with a wheel is without doubt - but it isn't necessary.

What we don't know is how many disgruntled GT players are switching to Project Cars and Assetto Corsa as GT drifts further and further away from what those players want.
 
pasigiri
Le Mans de 24h is this weekend. Kaz may go there instead of E3.

GT7 at E3 is a must business wise. Sony and PD can't afford losing any more ground to competition like PCars (which is here already) and AC. Morpheus support demo ready or not.

... but then again, Sony and PD has pulled some dumb things with GT as of late.
Click to expand...

Nobody outside any sim racing site knows what AC is (same goes for basically all PC Sim Racing titles) so the whole doom & Gloom about GT "Losing Ground" is hardly an issue.

play3man
GT has never had to pay any attention to them mainly because they were PC only titles. And yes, console player is a more casual player, but what impact it will have on the actual sales of AC? We don't know. They also can create more "casual" option for people who would buy AC only for simple racing with gamepad.

Sony didn't get to know that AC is coming to PS4 during the last week. They know this for months.
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Pretty sure "Years" is more of a possibliy, why else did they offer Kunos a PS4 devkit? I get the feeling if anything, Sony wanted them to come.
 
Johnnypenso
It's not "but" the console market is different, the console market being different from the pc market is my point actually. There have been many great sim racing games on pc over the years but GT has never had to pay any attention to them because the market for them is tiny and because the console player is a more casual player, many of whom are turned on by different things and let's face it, are less fussy about the accurate representation of the cars in the game. Hence why I would say they could care less about AC or any other pure pc racing sim.
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This part for some reason reminds me of.................not to go completely off topic, but the 80's/90's kids(now adults) vs 00's and 10's kids a lot when it comes to Television specifically cartoons. The argument of which era is better etc.
 
Johnnypenso
As @psychoazubi indicates, two words - difficulty sliders. Works for everyone. You should try career modes in other games, it's a pretty common feature.
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I believe I have, quite a few.

By the way, skewing the performance of a car in GT6 to where I still couldn't lose a race to the bots seems like a waste of time, wouldn't you say? I'd think a strapping business dude like yourself would understand scaling to the situation. I've raced plenty of times in GT6 with cars that had no chance of winning, but I did it to see where I made it at the finish. Still, it is more exciting if there's a chance of winning, and the wide range of cars with all sorts of PP ratings does provide a sort of poor man's difficulty slider in a game without one.

Encyclopedia
Maybe I'm missing a joke here, but AC physics are far superior to GT6. Far.

If it's not a joke and you're serious then you're just too much.
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I was poking fun at Johnny's excuse that having one guy work on the bot A.I. was the reason they are so lackluster. And yes, Johnny, I find the bots in AC to be rather boring, though mostly in a proper way. Maybe P CARS is more my speed. I guess I'll see one of these days, and if Kunos decides to up the bot aggression or not. Real racing aggression now, the bash happy bots of GRID and Forza have no place in a good racing game. I'll always hold to the likelihood that if you wouldn't race humans that behave that way, I shouldn't have to race bots that do. ;)

play3man
PS4 is on the market for almost two years, we didn't hear anything about GT7 yet and there is already one game similiar to GT for the PS4 - Project Cars.
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Well, I think the game P CARS is most like is Toca. But seeing that Toca is kind of like Gran Turismo, I'll spot you a few points on that.

One thing these new racing games do (DriveClub, Asseto Corsa, P CARS etc) is make people anxious for a next gen Gran Turismo. This is certainly my reaction when I learned that P CARS wasn't quite like Toca meets GT, especially on consoles. No livery editor (at least for some time), a limited car count, the potential for a number of one make races... it seems like P CARS is going to be a lot like having GTR or Race Room on PS4. And having a really pretty racing sim is nice, but like AC, none of the cars will be mine - they'll be loaners, the gameplay will be all about professional racing, so all the sports car racing will be extremely limited - and possibly one make again, no modifying cars... all the things that make Gran Turismo cool is pretty much only in Gran Turismo. Or Forza, but for the time being I'm just not bothering with it, and a lot of GT fans don't.

It's this gaping hole in the PS4 lineup that has me thinking GT7 will show up sooner than later. This year? Probably not, but news? A good chance.
 
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MingsterLBC
sigh....forza 6 will probably be out this holiday season. I am definitely going to get a xbox one for forza. Sony and PD are taking too damn long. Forza been outpacing GT games for a while now, I was just in denial.
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Forza6 will have what GT6 had on PS3. Decent track list with variable conditions ? :P

I rather buy 2 GT games in 6-7yrs period than 3 Forza games. Not counting 40$ DLC that Forza games likes to sell. I can already see Porsche as DLC since it is coming to FH2 :odd:
 
Tenacious D
I believe I have, quite a few.

By the way, skewing the performance of a car in GT6 to where I still couldn't lose a race to the bots seems like a waste of time, wouldn't you say? I'd think a strapping business dude like yourself would understand scaling to the situation. I've raced plenty of times in GT6 with cars that had no chance of winning, but I did it to see where I made it at the finish. Still, it is more exciting if there's a chance of winning, and the wide range of cars with all sorts of PP ratings does provide a sort of poor man's difficulty slider in a game without one.
Click to expand...
A difficulty slider =/= torpedoing your car's performance you should know this by now. Completely different things, completely different results. Scaling should be done with the push of a button by the game, not by constant stop/start experimentation on the part of the player, leading to a car that performs nowhere near it's limits, in order to dumb it down so it doesn't destroy the bots. I want to race my GT car at full specs, against AI with full specs, on the same tires, at whatever difficulty suits my speed and skill level, as does just about everyone else.

I was poking fun at Johnny's excuse that having one guy work on the bot A.I. was the reason they are so lackluster. And yes, Johnny, I find the bots in AC to be rather boring, though mostly in a proper way. Maybe P CARS is more my speed. I guess I'll see one of these days, and if Kunos decides to up the bot aggression or not. Real racing aggression now, the bash happy bots of GRID and Forza have no place in a good racing game. I'll always hold to the likelihood that if you wouldn't race humans that behave that way, I shouldn't have to race bots that do. ;)
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Here's the lackluster AI from AC:



Lap 6 - 7 cars within 6 seconds
upload_2015-6-9_2-3-26.png


Final lap, final corner, 19 minutes in, 7 cars within 7 seconds
upload_2015-6-9_2-7-10.png


No one had to nerf their car, all cars on the same tires with the same performance. If you watch the video you'll see the bots are cornering at the same speed as the player, and straightline speed is the same. The player, in the Ferrari, makes 3 or 4 realistic looking passes both under braking and by drafting on the longer straights. No crashes, no bots running into each other, it looks like a real race.

If this is what can be done with a skeleton crew, literally, I can only imagine what they can do with more funding and more staff. All it would take is some sliders for aggression, overtaking etc. and some retuning to tighten up the field and these AI would be just about the best ever.

To even compare that to GT's AI is ludicrous, it's not even in the same league:sly:
 
gtracedriver1
Forza6 will have what GT6 had on PS3. Decent track list with variable conditions ? :P

I rather buy 2 GT games in 6-7yrs period than 3 Forza games. Not counting 40$ DLC that Forza games likes to sell. I can already see Porsche as DLC since it is coming to FH2 :odd:
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The biggest downfall for me with the GT series is customization options. FORZA blows GT away with what we can do to a car. And by customization options I mean make the car your own by putting your own personal touch. Custom exterior mods, custom paint jobs, engine swap etc...That's what really bug me about GT, the car customization options are not that deep to forzas. You want everyone to know that is your suped up HONDA with all your blazing stickers and graphix passing you by :lol:
 
Unless this publisher is trustworthy, Not sure if they should be believed just yet.
 

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