GTP Cool Wall: 1957 Jaguar XKSS

[Downhill Dino]

And just because one person thinks it's uncool doesn't mean it's automatically uncool.

It works the other way too you know.

 

[Joel]

If I like something odds are I'm going to find it cool. On a case by case basis, I can think it's cool or not cool based on whether I like it, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's one or the other.


I fail to see why anyone can't grasp that concept.

I really like watching professional gaming. I'm very excited for the Dota 2 International tournament happening in a few weeks. It's my favourite video game and there will be highly skilled players and teams executing entertaining drafts, teamfights, and ganks. People from all over the world will be watching the best Dota 2 players compete for millions of dollars and it'll be a ton of fun to watch. I've been looking forward to it for months and it'll be one of the most fun things I'll watch all summer.

IT'S GOING TO BE SO COOOOL

 

[GranTurismo916]

People will disagree with this, but when it's car based, I really don't care what society thinks about it. If I'm the only who who thinks it's cool, so be it.

 

[Slash]

I really like watching professional gaming. I'm very excited for the Dota 2 International tournament happening in a few weeks. It's my favourite video game and there will be highly skilled players and teams executing entertaining drafts, teamfights, and ganks. People from all over the world will be watching the best Dota 2 players compete for millions of dollars and it'll be a ton of fun to watch.

IT'S GOING TO BE SO COOOOL

This is exactly why I said they can be separated...

 

[Cano]

Why can't the two go hand in hand?

they can, but not always. Read the "necesarily" part again.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Couldn't have said it better myself chaps.

If this isn't Sub-Zero, then there's something flat-out wrong with the Cool Wall voters.

I nominated and voted it Sub-Zero, not only because the top tier in our Cool Wall is "Steve McQueen's Garage" and this was actually owned by him, but because it's one of the cars that defines cool for me. It's a gorgeous blend of class and agression, it's a svelte thoroughbred racing car with a couple of creature comforts. It's part brit, part brute. It'll make you look like a gentleman on a racetrack, and like a playboy on a boulevard. It's insane...insanely fast, insanely classy, insanely cool. Picture it in a classy Paris neighborhood, picture it at night in a crowded area in Tokyo, picture it rippin' Brands Hatch at afternoon, or just sitting there in themiddleofnowhere Nevada, it'll always look dashing and elegant at the same time, regardless of the context. That's cool.

If this isn't Sub-Zero, sorry but nothing is.

You obviously seem to think this is a good looking car, personally I don't - to me it looks like a midget weight lifter.

Your opinion is therefore wrong.




Am I cool-walling properly now?!

 

[Tyger]

Coolness is determined by how it's perceived by society. Go ahead and check any definition for "cool" that you want, you won't find GTP user Doodle listed as the authority.

This argument doesn't really hold water. Coolness is necessarily subjective, and as I've argued before, the notion of some sort of objective Fonzie-like coolness is antiquated and, in our irony-steeped and hipster-infested modern world anything that enough people deem to be cool automatically becomes a bit crap, because sheep.

To be honest there would be far less hot air in these threads if people would accept that ultimately the cool wall *is* really just a straw poll measuring how many people like or dislike a certain car, and their reasoning as to why. If one describes something as "cool" nowadays it's more likely to be synonymous with "very good" and "I approve" than Miles Davis or Steve McQueen.

Accordingly, Doodle is just as much of an authority than any other cat.

 

[Jahgee]

Sub Zero, but I don't understand why Steve McQueen is considered the god of cool

 

[Zenith]

This argument doesn't really hold water. Coolness is necessarily subjective, and as I've argued before, the notion of some sort of objective Fonzie-like coolness is antiquated and, in our modern irony-steeped and hipster-infested modern world anything that enough people deem to be cool automatically becomes a bit crap, because sheep.

It doesn't have to be Fonzie-like, it doesn't have to be objective. It isn't objective. It is not a matter of individual taste. Coolness is societal.

To be honest there would be far less hot air in these threads if people would accept that ultimately the cool wall *is* really just a straw poll measuring how many people like or dislike a certain car, and their reasoning as to why.

If you want a like wall, make a like wall. This is the cool wall.

If one describes something as "cool" nowadays it's more likely to be synonymous with "very good" and "I approve" than Miles Davis or Steve McQueen.

Only if you're the type of person who thinks that how much you like something directly relates to how cool it is. But that would be silly, they're different words with different meanings. Why would you mix up the two unless you were so hopelessly unaware of your own uncoolness that you honestly believed that liking something made it cool?

Accordingly, Doodle is just as much of an authority than any other cat.

The point is that nobody is an authority. Well, maybe cool people. If you are on GTP, you are a car person and are therefore uncool and are therefore not an authority.

 

[MoLiEG]

Sub Zero, but I don't understand why Steve McQueen is considered the god of cool

Me neither. I've read enough of him and well, I admit the guy looks kinda cool... but not cool enough to be called The King of Cool...

 

[Clark]

Off the scale, one of the coolest cars ever made.

 

[a6m5]

Again, this debate on what is/isn't, or the definition of what is "cool" attach such an annoyance to these polls.

If you are on GTP, you are a car person and are therefore uncool and are therefore not an authority.

Steve McQueen is overrated in this thread, I agree.

 

[Roo]

Coolness is determined by how it's perceived by society.

The point is that nobody is an authority. Well, maybe cool people. If you are on GTP, you are a car person and are therefore uncool and are therefore not an authority.

In two posts you've nailed the problem I have with the idea of rating cars on their coolness.

If all of society voted on a car, any car, I expect the largest proportion of votes would go to meh - because it's a car, and most people don't give a crap about cars - and the second largest proportion would vote uncool, because it's a car, and cars are uncool.

The only people who would vote cool would be uncool people (us).

Thus I imagine our little cool wall - from Sub Zero to Seriously Uncool - fitting in to society's cool wall somewhere around the meh/uncool boundary.

Now that's sorted, we can forget this whole silly enterprise and find something else to bitch needlessly about.

 

[Wiegert]

I admit the guy looks kinda cool... but not cool enough to be called The King of Cool...

Well he was the Cooler King. Nobody can dispute that.

 

[Tyger]

It doesn't have to be Fonzie-like, it doesn't have to be objective. It isn't objective. It is not a matter of individual taste. Coolness is societal.

OK, for reference, please provide a list, not necessarily car-related, of things that are "cool". On a "societal" basis.

If you want a like wall, make a like wall. This is the cool wall.

Nope, it's already pretty much a like wall, that was my point. The word cool is more synonymous with liking something nowadays, and is very subjective, as opposed to the more out-of-date concept of "cool" you and one or two others are clinging on to.

Only if you're the type of person who thinks that how much you like something directly relates to how cool it is. But that would be silly, they're different words with different meanings. Why would you mix up the two unless you were so hopelessly unaware of your own uncoolness that you honestly believed that liking something made it cool?

No they are not such different words with different meanings nowadays, which is precisely my point. When you describe something as "cool" to your friends, that's something that you think is good or neat or favourable, and your friends (being with your friends) will probably/possibly agree. Again if there is such a thing as a wider "societal" cool that one shouldn't really question, do give me some contemporary examples.

The point is that nobody is an authority. Well, maybe cool people. If you are on GTP, you are a car person and are therefore uncool and are therefore not an authority.

No, the point is that everybody is an authority, coolness is necessarily subjective and can often be consensual. That is the only way in which it can be defined. Otherwise, who is the authority and is there some book of coolness somewhere that they wrote and I have managed to overlook?

 

[AlvaroF]

Yo dawg, I heard you like quotes!

Sorry had to

 

[Joel]

I spent my Canada Day holiday afternoon on the couch watching the NHL Free Agent Frenzy special on TSN. My team signed Tom Gilbert, a player who was significantly underrated, his Corsi% was around 55%, denoting that his team got 55% of unblocked shot attempts while he was on the ice. We can look at this number and extrapolate that should he be paired with a similar player in Andrei Markov that pairing should continue to be among the league's elite.

Granted, one must consider his O-Zone start % in this kind of analysis, as well as Corsi Rel QoC, as zone starts and QoC can heavily influence a player's possession performance. I believe Gilbert will add a significant improvement to the Canadiens' defense corps.

I love sports. I like sports so that means they're cool.

 

[niky]

Why can't the two go hand in hand?

Because Bieber.

Coolness is very vague, but it is definitely consensus based. Society, in general, determines what's cool. And what's cool is not always what's the most popular or most successful.

If that were all that counted, Justin Bieber and the Toyota Corolla would be the kings of cool. But they're not. Which is obvious to everyone here.

Also, coolness is not something you can strive for. It may seem hipster-ish, and yes, it probably is... but breaking down the elements that are common to "cool" cars, and self-consciously applying them to a car to make it "cool" invariably makes the car "uncool"... because coolness has to be effortless. Preferably original.

This is why the modern Camaro and Mustang can never quite be cool. Because they're self-consciously trying to ape older models that were cool...

Could be worse... they could be the new MINI...

 

[Tyger]

Yo dawg, I heard you like quotes!

Sorry had to

Yeah well probably the first time I've quoted multiple parts of the same post, and messed it up initially. Go figure, guess I'm just not one of those cool dudes who spends all day posting in a lot of forums

 

[Zenith]

Snip

There are certainly cars that the masses will find cool, the XKSS is one of them. Drive down the street in one of these and you will look extremely, extremely cool. People pay attention to the cars their friends drive and the cars strangers drive.

OK, for reference, please provide a list, not necessarily car-related, of things that are "cool". On a "societal" basis.

Literally anything has it's coolness determined by society and culture. That's how coolness works.

Nope, it's already pretty much a like wall, that was my point. The word cool is more synonymous with liking something nowadays, and is very subjective, as opposed to the more out-of-date concept of "cool" you and one or two others are clinging on to.

No they are not such different words with different meanings nowadays, which is precisely my point. When you describe something as "cool" to your friends, that's something that you think is good or neat or favourable, and your friends (being with your friends) will probably/possibly agree. Again if there is such a thing as a wider "societal" cool that one shouldn't really question, do give me some contemporary examples.

No it's not. Maybe it seems like it to people who wouldn't know what cool was if it drove by them in an XKSS, but it's not. There are several of those "Cool == Like, Uncool == Dislike" people who vote on these polls. I will continue to challenge people who cannot fathom this concept.

Those of us who can differentiate the definitions and meanings of words will vote on a car's coolness, not how much we like it.

No, the point is that everybody is an authority, coolness is necessarily subjective and can often be consensual. That is the only way in which it can be defined. Otherwise, who is the authority and is there some book of coolness somewhere that they wrote and I have managed to overlook?

Cool people define what coolness is, uncool people help define what coolness is by showing what coolness doesn't look like. This is part of what defines coolness. I never said there is a person/book that is the authority, I don't really understand why you're still floundering over a moot point.

 

[Slash]

That's how coolness works.

Coolness works how I say it works.


In my mind that is.

 

[sparkytooth]

This whole coolness debate is seriously uncool.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I use rivets...rivets are cool - Eleventh Doctor

 

[JMoney]

Much better looking than the E-type (even those boring steel wheels are better than the wire wheels seen on the E-Type), and that kind of power in the 50's was epic. Sub-Zero.

 

[Tyger]

Literally anything has it's coolness determined by society and culture. That's how coolness works.

If it is so all-encompassing, again, please list some examples.

Cool people define what coolness is, uncool people help define what coolness is by showing what coolness doesn't look like. This is part of what defines coolness. I never said there is a person/book that is the authority, I don't really understand why you're still floundering over a moot point.

Aww, I think you are the one swimming against the tide here. Do you not realise how paradoxical, even nonsensical "Cool people define what coolness is" is, as a statement? But by all means keep arguing your case, and I (and many others) will stick to voting on how we see the nominated cars rather than trying to second-guess some abstract notion of coolness that should be agreed upon by all. If that were the case there would be no poll, because "society and culture" has already decided. Would make for a pretty boring thread.

 

[Joel]

Coolness works how I say it works.

Imagine if we had a hobby cool wall. I would nominate competitive gaming, building computers, and hockey stats.

Then when hockey stats came up and everyone voted uncool, imagine I went off on a huge wall of text about the specifics and nuances of different methods to statistically analyze hockey full of facts and figures, why I like using stats to analyze hockey, then got upset that people thought something I like wasn't cool. Then imagine I tried to say they were wrong and it's cool because I said so.

Now go take a look at the Mustang threads.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If it is so all-encompassing, again, please list some examples.



Aww, I think you are the one swimming against the tide here. Do you not realise how paradoxical, even nonsensical "Cool people define what coolness is" is, as a statement? But by all means keep arguing your case, and I (and many others) will stick to voting on how we see the nominated cars rather than trying to second-guess some abstract notion of coolness that should be agreed upon by all.

If it is really that much of an issue (which only one or two raise) when questioned on their vote...why bother explaining yourself? Obviously those people want others to know why they've stated what they did, and by doing so they must too also know that they could come into question. So why vote and then tell the world? I mean some of us only care enough to argue what at times seems like ignorance that is simply given a pass called subjectivity.

Now let's not confuse this and say "so now we cant even be subjective on a subjective topic", no it's fine. But as we've shown in other cool walls simply having an opinion and thinking it can't be questions because it's your opinion isn't correct. Why one thinks this car or others are cool is based on social parameters, and is in no way the same as why they think soda taste good or why the color blue is their favorite. This instead is instilled in them at some point due to some circumstance, like how @Slash put it recently. And it's those triggers that are easily questionable when the are a reflection of what one thinks is cool or not.

If that's not a concept people get, then why say anything when you could vote and never say a word. There are several people that vote and say nothing and they never get called out even if we can see who they are. It's until they smash keys on their keyboard...

 

[C-ZETA]

Staggered the XKSS is higher than the E-Type. But neither did I expect the 037 to reach the heights it did.
Cool, it's your basic cool old-school machine, which means it's a very stale cool.

Oh, and my intake on the whole coolness argument is that it exists.

 

[Wolfe]

There's a difference between conflating "cool" with "things I like", and defying the "consensus" view because you don't think coolness is necessarily dependent upon what any subpopulation thinks. With these polls we're forming a consensus, so why attempt to model it after an existing one? That's so uncool.

 

[Tyger]

If it is really that much of an issue (which only one or two raise) when questioned on their vote...why bother explaining yourself? Obviously those people want others to know why they've stated what they did, and by doing so they must too also know that they could come into question. So why vote and then tell the world? I mean some of us only care enough to argue what at times seems like ignorance that is simply given a pass called subjectivity.

Now let's not confuse this and say "so now we cant even be subjective on a subjective topic", no it's fine. But as we've shown in other cool walls simply having an opinion and thinking it can't be questions because it's your opinion isn't correct. Why one thinks this car or others are cool is based on social parameters, and is in no way the same as why they think soda taste good or why the color blue is their favorite. This instead is instilled in them at some point due to some circumstance, like how @Slash put it recently. And it's those triggers that are easily questionable when the are a reflection of what one thinks is cool or not.

If that's not a concept people get, then why say anything when you could vote and never say a word. There are several people that vote and say nothing and they never get called out even if we can see who they are. It's until they smash keys on their keyboard...

I hope you were sorta agreeing with me here, because that was my whole point. If Slash thinks such and such a Mustang is cool, that's because his life has made that car cool, and no-one should call him out about it and say he is ignoring some kind of hokey consensus that if we all followed, would make these polls totally redundant. Such consensuses (consensii? not gonna look it up!) are by default environmental, social for sure but on a relatively small scale, amorphous and in no way enforcable on others.

EDIT: Actually after re-reading your post, I'm not totally sure where you are coming from, but it's all good

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I hope you were sorta agreeing with me here, because that was my whole point. If Slash thinks such and such a Mustang is cool, that's because his life has made that car cool, and no-one should call him out about it and say he is ignoring some kind of hokey consensus that if we all followed, would make these threads totally redundant.

...No I'm not, I never said a consensus should be what is the reason behind formulating since that is part of the issue. He should be called out because it's a bias view that uses flawed reasoning to come to a "subjective" comment on cool, cause my dad taught me, cause the country I grew up in and the people around me don't like that stuff...who give a rat's ***. Why not think for yourself formulate reasoning based on knowledgeable items and then explain?

If you're whole point was what I said, then why does it look like a stark opposite? @Wolfe, put the Consensus part best and what I was trying to say in my post and this one on the topic.