GTP Cool Wall: 1990-1995 Acura Legend

[Tornado]

I was exaggerating. My point is that this car's body is writing checks that the rest of the machine can't cash.

It couldn't be any more conservatively styled (and blatantly 80s Japanese) without resorting to sealed beam headlights. What checks could it possibly be writing?

 

[Nessy]

Checks or cheques?

Never mind.

 

[Zenith]

How much is that then?

230hp apparently. Do you think that the Acura Legend's chassis can handle 230hp? I've never driven a Legend, but I have driven similar Honda chassis with less horsepower and those didn't feel like they needed 230hp.

It couldn't be any more conservatively styled (and blatantly 80s Japanese) without resorting to sealed beam headlights. What checks could it possibly be writing?

See this post.

Shape of a sports coupe but the looks and performance of an econo-box.

I'm trying to differentiate between the general shape of the car and the styling. The shape of the car seems pretty sporty to me with the long tail and sloped back.

 

[Tornado]

230hp apparently. Do you think that the Acura Legend's chassis can handle 230hp? I've never driven a Legend, but I have driven similar Honda chassis with less horsepower and those didn't feel like they needed 230hp.

230 hp is too much power for the car to handle because you drove some similar car that had less power and it didn't need more?

I'm trying to differentiate between the general shape of the car and the styling. The shape of the car seems pretty sporty to me with the long tail and sloped back.

It isn't as if Acura shortened the wheelbase and lowered the roof on the Legend sedan and then ended up with some sort of Japanese Reatta.

 

[Sage Ages]

I've never driven a Legend

Then your post is irrelevant to the claim that you're making.

 

[Zenith]

Then your post is irrelevant to the claim that you're making.

I have driven FF cars, I have driven FF cars with longitudinal mounted engines, I have driven FF Hondas and Acuras from this time period, I have driven FF cars from this time period with power levels from 100hp to 250hp.

But yes obviously I can't be qualified to make an educated guess on the Legend's ability to handle 230hp because it's such a unique car design, being a ~200hp FWD mid size car. C'mon, this isn't a Morgan 3 Wheeler.

230 hp is too much power for the car to handle because you drove some similar car that had less power and it didn't need more

As I said, using my experience driving similar cars and my understanding of the technology that this car employs, I would expect 230hp is "slightly more horsepower than the FWD chassis can handle."

Not any FWD chassis, just this FWD chassis. Do you have reason to believe that it can handle the power well? I'm all ears.

It isn't as if Acura shortened the wheelbase and lowered the roof on the Legend sedan and then ended up with some sort of Japanese Reatta.

If only. I would still call the coupe a sporty looking shape. The first picture in this thread really shows that.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

230hp apparently. Do you think that the Acura Legend's chassis can handle 230hp? I've never driven a Legend, but I have driven similar Honda chassis with less horsepower and those didn't feel like they needed 230hp.

I've driven one and it felt quite happy on a twisty road. The steering is a bit vague but it handles the power very well.

 

[Famine]

230hp apparently. Do you think that the Acura Legend's chassis can handle 230hp?

Yeah, no problem.

I've never driven a Legend, but I have driven similar Honda chassis with less horsepower and those didn't feel like they needed 230hp.

That's got little to do with what the chassis can handle.

Which would, in any case, be torque, not power.

 

[Roger the Horse]

And of course, 90s Hondas are well known for their huge, AMG shattering torque figures.

 

[Tornado]

Do you have reason to believe that it can handle the power well? I'm all ears.

"Prove that argument that I'm only alluding to backing up is wrong."








I've never driven a Legend. I've driven a Prelude of that time period, and nothing about that makes me think that it would be dynamically ruined with another 40 pound feet of torque. Might need an LSD and wider tires, but otherwise I'm guessing it would be fine.
I've also driven a Lumina Z34 of that time period. Despite being on a platform built by 1980s GM that bowed about 3 years prior to the Legend and was infamous before it even debuted for its horrific cost overruns, engineering oversights and protracted design span, it never felt as if it was going to collapse on itself when you hustled its almost-certainly-much-heavier and similarly powerful V6 engine through its paces. In fact, it was a pretty damn enjoyable ride.
And the Chrysler 300M I drove somewhat frequently last year after I bought my car as a point of comparison (which has its own 300 hp/300 lb-ft V8 engine driving the front wheels), with its longitudinal engine pushing 250 hp/lb-ft through its circa-1993 chassis, didn't seem particularly unsettled unless I really pushed on it (at which point there seemed to be a disconnect between the front wheels and the rest of the body).



Now, I know that there are cars of that era that had drivetrains that greatly outstripped the cars they were put in; but I don't really think there is any reason to assume that a 230 horsepower Acura on its designed-for-that-drivetrain chassis is going to have the same wet noodle feeling that the early Northstar Sevilles did.

 

[Zenith]

I've driven one and it felt quite happy on a twisty road. The steering is a bit vague but it handles the power very well.

^I'll take it. Good evidence.

Yeah, no problem.

That's got little to do with what the chassis can handle.

Which would, in any case, be torque, not power.

And of course, 90s Hondas are well known for their huge, AMG shattering torque figures.

According to a quick google search this car makes about 210ft-lbs of torque.

My experience with 90's FWD cars taught me that 200hp or 200ft-lbs of torque is about the upper limit of "standard" cars like this with strut suspension and simple mechanical differentials before they start to get annoying. Cars like this are not exactly my area of expertise, but I think it's a fairly commonly held belief.

But first hand experience trumps that.

"Prove that argument that I'm only alluding to backing up is wrong."

Alright, let's make it simple.

Argument: 230hp / 210 ft-lbs of torque is slightly too much for this chassis to handle. (Retracted)

Supporting Evidence: Personal experience driving many similar cars with similar chassis, engine configurations, power levels, and suspension design.

Opposing Evidence: Personal experience @Beeblebrox237 having actually driven the car, personal experiences of other members like you who also have an understanding of the mechanics of the system and have driven similar cars.

I tried to find some proper road test reviews but couldn't find any. I did find people on forums complaining about torque steer though, but that's hardly a reliable source since many found the issue after mods or with broken parts.

I've never driven a Legend. I've driven a Prelude of that time period, and nothing about that makes me think that it would be dynamically ruined with another 40 pound feet of torque. Might need an LSD and wider tires, but otherwise I'm guessing it would be fine.
I've also driven a Lumina Z34 of that time period. Despite being on a platform built by 1980s GM that bowed about 3 years prior to the Legend and was infamous before it even debuted for its horrific cost overruns, engineering oversights and protracted design span, it never felt as if it was going to collapse on itself when you hustled its almost-certainly-much-heavier and similarly powerful V6 engine through its paces. In fact, it was a pretty damn enjoyable ride.
And the Chrysler 300M I drove somewhat frequently last year after I bought my car as a point of comparison (which has its own 300 hp/300 lb-ft V8 engine driving the front wheels), with its longitudinal engine pushing 250 hp/lb-ft through its circa-1993 chassis, didn't seem particularly unsettled unless I really pushed on it (at which point there seemed to be a disconnect between the front wheels and the rest of the body).

Now, I know that there are cars of that era that had drivetrains that greatly outstripped the cars they were put in; but I don't really think there is any reason to assume that a 230 horsepower Acura on its designed-for-that-drivetrain chassis is going to have the same wet noodle feeling that the early Northstar Sevilles did.

Similarly I had experience with a V6 Camry with less than 200hp which wasn't confidence inspiring. It just didn't like exiting corners.

Get into an older Saab with more horsepower and there's no issue with torque steer. My guess was that the Legend would be more like the Camry. Also keep in mind that I said "slightly too much horsepower" not "enough horsepower to understeer the car like that Top Gear Vauxhall video."

So you've got a good point, but you may want to get that bolded point checked out by a doctor.

 

[Famine]

According to a quick google search this car makes about 210ft-lbs of torque.

My experience with 90's FWD cars taught me that 200hp or 200ft-lbs of torque is about the upper limit of "standard" cars like this with strut suspension and simple mechanical differentials before they start to get annoying. Cars like this are not exactly my area of expertise, but I think it's a fairly commonly held belief.

I've got no problem with the concept of 200lbft+ being too much for the chassis, but several problems with the concept of 200hp+ being the same.

 

[Zenith]

I've got no problem with the concept of 200lbft+ being too much for the chassis, but several problems with the concept of 200hp+ being the same.

Indeed, torque causes torque steer and drivetrain stress. Power is not relevant, however most NA cars that make X horsepower will also make similar torque curves. Generally 15-30 less peak ft-lbs of torque than peak hp seems to be the trend for this power level.

 

[High-Test]

I've known a few people with these, not a one was a decent human being. The choice of douches and drug dealers everywhere.

 

[Slash]

This car is anything but a Legend.

 

[Liquid]

The only thing legendary about these is that Legend has it that people actually bought these things.

Spoiler

Although funnily enough I did see a coupe like in the OP this very morning.

 

[Roger the Horse]

Yeah, there's a Honda Legend around where I live. Also a few Accord coupes and a load of R33 Skylines.

And of course, a 2.2 Camry.

People like Japanese cars around here, it seems.

 

[TexRex]

Front engine, front wheel drive

It seems to me there are easier ways to get there than this:

Now I'm not knocking the fact that it's FWD, I just figure it may have actually been easier to make it RWD.

 

[synchromesh]

This car is anything but a Legend.

Hahahah

A meh car, however 5 and 6 speed manual bumps it up to cool, along with its smooth power delivery.

 

[Tornado]

It seems to me there are easier ways to get there than this:

Now I'm not knocking the fact that it's FWD, I just figure it may have actually been easier to make it RWD.

They didn't have an engine that would fit if they put it in sideways.

 

[TexRex]

They didn't have an engine that would fit if they put it in sideways.

And I can appreciate that, it still seems like the long way around. The C32A appears to be far narrower than the C32B, and not much wider (if at all, it's difficult to compare) than the J37 in my ZDX--and it wasn't long after that that the CL was introduced with a transverse J.

I stand by my belief that it would have been easier to "gussy-up" the platform with a RWD/AWD layout, attracting more buyers.