GTP Cool Wall: 2001-2006 BMW M3

2001-2006 BMW M3


  • Total voters
    127
  • Poll closed .
The idea of geeks is cool. Geeks aren't.

Look no further than "The Big Bang Theory". You're not supposed to identify with the geeks. You're supposed to identify with Penny and laugh at them.

Many of us will disagree with you.
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Game. Set. [/Thread].

The cool wall on GTP doesn't measure the 'coolness' of a car, but the 'coolness' of the driver.
Nough said? :indiff:

We're not voting solely on the image of people who drive the cars, that's the thing.

In fact, we're not even voting on that. We're voting on the cars themselves, but those cars may be affected by those that drive them.

Contradiction to me, but all the same, to let who drives a car affect your view on it is basically saying you can't be an objective reviewer or an objective judge.
Nice work. Nice work to all of you who let some other jerk ruin an awesome car for your own pleasure.

It's almost like not dating the love of your life because she had a scumbag boyfriend in the past. :rolleyes:

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Seriously, it's automotive bigotry.
 
@homeforsummer -- Whether or not "how much of a bell-end the drivers are" is something that even matters is subjective, too. Frankly, it's kind of wild to see otherwise upright GTP members engaging in what resembles schoolyard talk. It's not wrong, and it's the sort of thing that makes these threads colorful and interesting, but I decided this particular car (with all the "douche" comments it generated) was a good opportunity to talk about why I don't agree with it.

When your vote on a car "may be affected by those that drive them," you're making a subjective call. Personally, I find it an untenable one, because I have a very unfavorable view of people in general and I could make excuses for or against any car if I wanted to. But I try to be positive, and I try to be open-minded about cars. I'd rather vote favorably on a car with nice qualities than dwell upon the dickwads that are associated with it. There's an awful lot of dickwads out there.

I agree that a wider view is important. I just don't agree with the "owners who ruin it" criterion. I think about a car's history, the effort that went into it, how well it achieved its goals, whether it's exceptional/unique or nothing special, how it was advertised, and so on. Not all of that all the time, but whatever seems relevant, of course. This week's Ford GT poll is a good example. I've never been very fond of that car, but thinking about it in context I had to award it "Cool."

I treat these polls almost as if it were an open-air car show, with my vote roughly corresponding to how much time I'd spend taking a closer look. To be clear, that's regardless of whether I'd like to own/drive the car.
Nothing is immune, but not everything is equally affected.
Which stereotypes are pertinent depends on who you ask. Also where you are, apparently. It seems to me that our UK members have strong sentiments about douchebags in BMWs, but in Madison I'd sooner expect to see a douchebag in an Oldsmobile Aurora or some other large Detroit-made "drug dealer" car.
So? Who says my criteria has to be the same for every car? Just like not every car suffers from its stereotypes to the same extent, not every stereotype is necessarily even a negative quality on a car's image.
I'm usually one to point out that everyone has their own definition for what "cool" means. If someone wants to base their definition on what the ignorant masses think, or the prevailing stereotype about a car's owners, or change the criteria depending on the case, it's an open poll.

It wasn't my intention to tell others what they should or shouldn't do.
 
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Nowhere did he even imply his opinion of 'coolness' was directly correlated to whether he liked or disliked the car.

Read the entire thing and not just the snippet that you quoted, as well as what others have said and my previous comment. Far too often as has been stated people rather come her and say "I like this car blah blah blah" which is basically what he did if you weren't aware and thus led partially to me saying what I said. I also said this wall wasn't a few things that people indirectly seem to think it is. So just because he didn't directly say it doesn't mean that from the rhetoric given, one can't still see that he is talking about a car he likes.

@Kent how are we letting that bias our view...it's the damn cool wall read the rules follow them, roll around in them. There is wiggle room with the rules and times when things are lax, but if people understood how these things work they wouldn't say what you just did. They also wouldn't ask the annoying constant questions like "why aren't super car/hyper cars cool?"
 
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@homeforsummer -- Whether or not "how much of a bell-end the drivers are" is something that even matters is subjective, too. Frankly, it's kind of wild to see otherwise upright GTP members engaging in what resembles schoolyard talk. It's not wrong, and it's the sort of thing that makes these threads colorful and interesting, but I decided this particular car (with all the "douche" comments it generated) was a good opportunity to talk about why I don't agree with it.
That's fair enough. Though as I pointed out to @Doog, I did expand my original post further than simply saying "it's a car for douchebags". My post actually started out by saying that as something to roll down the street in, it's also fairly unremarkable.

Present company acknowledged, the 3-Series just isn't that spectacular a vehicle, and I'd struggle to find most of them cool. They're absolutely ubiquitous these days, and ubiquity isn't really a cool trait. And good though the M3 is, it's just a slightly quicker, slightly noisier 3-Series. People can go on about motorsport heritage all they like but they didn't even have widespread track success, unlike previous M3s. If this were the open-air car show you mentioned, I'd spend all of about ten milliseconds looking at the M3 before something more interesting caught my eye.

And one again, there are plenty of great cars that don't appeal to the sort of people that M3s appeal to. All other factors being equal, the M3's ownership base rather drags it down.

I'm not sure how directly you were referring to me with the "open-minded" comment too, but even considering my stance on this particular car I'd be surprised if you thought I wasn't being open-minded in these cool walls. It's precisely because I'm open-minded about cars that I consider all factors in a car's coolness and don't dismiss certain aspects that I don't agree with...
 
A car without a driver is just an object of metal and plastic and can only be judged on it's esthetics. To be a car it needs to be driven. To be driven it needs to contain a driver. So that driver intrinsically becomes part of what that car is, in which case the driver of a car, or the stereotype of, is an important element of how 'cool' a car is.
 
A car without a driver is just an object of metal and plastic and can only be judged on it's esthetics. To be a car it needs to be driven. To be driven it needs to contain a driver. So that driver intrinsically becomes part of what that car is, in which case the driver of a car, or the stereotype of, is an important element of how 'cool' a car is.

Yes, I agree with this, but before I say anything further it should be noted that it is a tool used to judge not the only criteria those of who use it base everything from. That is what I think the hang up is for those who seem to be so utterly heart broken over this car being put so low on the cool wall.

If you want to stack up opinions I'd say to those who are mad at us voting it uncool or less (I was one of them so have at it :sly:), then simply compare this thread to the M5 E39 that was voted cool and you'll see why this car of the same era lost to it's bigger sibling in cool factor.
 
To further clarify the driver thing, it is simply one aspect of what makes a car cool or uncool. This ties back to the many, many discussions about displacement, or heritage, or everything else that's regularly banded about in cool wall threads.

I stand by my vote on this car, but I don't think the sort of people who drive the car should be the only criteria either. In some cars it's a major factor, but in other cool wall threads it may not apply even slightly - drivers of most cars are neither one thing nor the other. But where it's a factor, I consider it.
 
My memory goes back quite a bit further than 5:30 this morning.

Really? Does it go back as far as the 80's and 90's? Because...

This was the M car that marked the turning point between the understated, borderline sleeper cars of the 1980s and 1990s

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Flared arches, big skirts, big wing, aggressive bumpers.... totally "understated", and totally unprecidented for BMW to do such a thing on a small performance car... oh, wait...

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And I'm sure it's borderline sleeper credentials were bolstered my the fact no one had a clue of it's performance... despite the numerous national and international Championships the M3 won....

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/sarcasm

So yes... I still disagree. If we're talking about the bloodline of the M3, the original E30 M3 was anything but restrained and was nowhere near bordering on a sleeper.. the E36 M3 remains the only M3 that would be regarded as a restrained exercise in styling, and it remains the exception, not the rule. The M1, well that's a whole different ball game. It was a BMW like no other production BMW before it, it looked like a sensible version of the BMW Turbo Concept, with a heavy Germanic slant on it. I guess you could argue it was not as outlandish as some of it's contemporaries, but for a BMW, or an M product it stood out like no other then, and does till this day (until maybe the i8).

and now with the E84 F82 we have every in your face aspect of the E92 but they added a double dome to the roof as well (plus the first car they showed being laden with that offset M stripe which is sure to be a hit with everyone who buys a 316i).

Hence "the one that jumped the shark." Hence "though it wasn't apparent at the time."

If you prefer the more understated M's then that's fine, I don't have an issue with that. I just don't see the kind of broad separation between now, and then, that I think you are implying - possibly why it wasn't "apparent at the time" to you is because the precedent for performance BMW's to be much brawnier than standard models had been set years, decades, earlier.

My travels have taught me that having a sense of self importance tends to trip people up far less than having a predisposed opinion. Particularly when you don't care if you burn bridges if it allows you to call things as you see them.

Right, so you never change your mind after having had an initial reaction. Good for you.
 
Contradiction to me, but all the same, to let who drives a car affect your view on it is basically saying you can't be an objective reviewer or an objective judge.
Again, this applies to everything. Do you let the people who usually wear fedoras impact your opinion on them? Do you let the people that wear Abercrombie & Fitch impact what you think of the brand? What about the Prius? It's a dependable and efficient economy car, do you let the drivers impact what you think of it?
Nice work. Nice work to all of you who let some other jerk ruin an awesome car for your own pleasure.
I think between myself, hfs, and a few others we've all said the image of the car wouldn't prevent us from buying one. Whether or not I like it and want one (this would be on my short list of cars to buy if I won ~$50k in the lottery) has nothing to do with whether or not I think it's cool. I like my Corolla and objectively it's and excellent economy car, but I know it isn't cool.

This whole thing is entirely subjective. My opinion on this car is partially based on its image, and drivers usually make up part of that.
 
The sheer fact that BMW had to make the GTR to homologate the E46 to be competitive racing it makes the E46 uncool.

The only reason the E30 M3 existed was for racing and any performance update that came out on it was purely there so the race car could be faster.
 
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I'm not sure how directly you were referring to me with the "open-minded" comment too, but even considering my stance on this particular car I'd be surprised if you thought I wasn't being open-minded in these cool walls. It's precisely because I'm open-minded about cars that I consider all factors in a car's coolness and don't dismiss certain aspects that I don't agree with...
I wasn't accusing you of not being open-minded, I was relating to your open-mindedness to explain why I consider things the way I do. 👍
 
I wasn't accusing you of not being open-minded, I was relating to your open-mindedness to explain why I consider things the way I do. 👍
No worries 👍 Just couldn't quite work out what direction you were approaching it from.
 
As much as I hate the drivers of these things, this gen M3 still manages to be cool in my eyes.
 
@Noob616 you make a Very good point but cars really can't be compared to clothes as they are much more funcional and varied, much less about appearance, which is pretty much the main point of clothes. I do believe the Prius is an uncool car but it really doesn't have to do with the owners and it wouldn't affect my decision when buying one.
Disclaimer: I think the Prius V is actually pretty friggin cool because wagon. (And maybe a little bit because of the less pretentious owners :sly: )
 
@Noob616 you make a Very good point but cars really can't be compared to clothes as they are much more funcional and varied, much less about appearance, which is pretty much the main point of clothes.
At their core, clothes are to protect you from the elements. Cars are to transport you and your stuff. Shoes are to protect your feet. But we know they mean a lot more than that.

Cars and clothes and shoes combine form and function. Which end of the tradeoff you move to says something about you as a person. You can buy a plain coat from a military surplus store for, or you can buy one from a designer for hundreds. You can wear running shoes everywhere you go, or wear varied shoes to match the rest of what you're wearing. If you buy a car or a pair of shoes or a coat because "it's comfortable and does what I need it to do", that is part of your self image and what you project to others.

If you're willing to put up with less functional clothes or shoes because they look better, that says something about you. Same with if you can do away with practical aspects of cars (economy, number of seats, storage space, etc.) for the sake of driving a more involving car.

I do believe the Prius is an uncool car but it really doesn't have to do with the owners and it wouldn't affect my decision when buying one.
Disclaimer: I think the Prius V is actually pretty friggin cool because wagon. (And maybe a little bit because of the less pretentious owners :sly: )
Ah, but what's uncool about the Prius? It gets you from point A to B and is very functional, what's uncool about that? ;)

Of course sometimes it just comes down to money, but if you had the money to buy a car and bought a Prius, or a Mustang, or a Corolla, or an F-150, each choice says something about you.
 
C6 Corvette Owners Nominated by Harry6784​

Honestly, that would be an awesome Cool Wall.

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Love the car. I think it's absolutely brilliant. But not quite sure about the image it projects.

Because half the M owners I've met or talked to are pretty cool guys, and half are total wankers. One of them came on our local enthusiast board and started a thread "for M Owners and M Owners only, no M-Sport pretenders"... which says it all, really.

And there's that nagging feeling that the E92 is simply a much better car in every way. Sexier sounding V8, better looking, more hardcore... and it represents a much smaller incremental increase in weight over the standard E46 M3 than the E46 was over the E36. I used to be enamored of the E46. That is, I used to be, until I experienced an E92's full fury. That kind of sealed the deal.

And that's probably a positively ridiculous reason to fall out of love with an old hero. But there it is.

Perhaps when the E46 M3 hits classic status, it'll be subzero again. For now, I can't bring myself to vote any lower than cool... no matter how much the E46 series crowd seems like some of the "tuner" crowd around the old Civic, nowadays. Down to the fake "M kits" and gonzo 19" wheels.
 
This entire thread is making zero sense to me.

Sub-zero because this is the greatest M3 ever made. It looks sexy, sounds great, and drives great. I'm not some guy that judges cars based on who drives them. If you are that kind of guy, then I feel sorry for you. 👎
 

Try to keep in mind that all of that racing greatness was primarily outside the USA.
Also keep in mind that many people here in the US can't tell the difference between a normal 3 and an M3 unless someone like one of us is sitting next to them spelling it out.
Just saying that as a friendly reminder that perspective is everything. :D
 
This entire thread is making zero sense to me.

Sub-zero because this is the greatest M3 ever made. It looks sexy, sounds great, and drives great. I'm not some guy that judges cars based on who drives them. If you are that kind of guy, then I feel sorry for you. 👎
Looks awesome but is driven by soccer moms all over. That defaults it to a 'Meh'
 
Quoting to reiterate a point made in numerous cool wall threads.

It's really a shame that so many people miss the point of the cool wall.

*Scroll through discussion*

"I like it, I want one. Sub Zero."

*never visit thread again.*

Voting a car uncool - whether or not it's because the reputation of drivers associated with them is poor, they're just a pile of crap in general or they're beyond the reach of anyone with an average salary - usually doesn't mean one dislikes the car itself.

Driver image can affect coolness, hence why I find this M3 uncool. But there are parts of the car itself that I do like (or rather don't dislike), but they alone still don't make it cool to me.
 
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Perhaps when the E46 M3 hits classic status, it'll be subzero again.
That is also something I hinted at in my first post in this thread. At the moment, the E46 is in classic car limbo. Once it gets there, I expect many of the current owners may have moved on to E92s. Rarity will help it in another decade or so, too (since all the d-bags will have crashed them by then and reduced the numbers...).
 
I'm not sure it's in classic limbo yet is it? Isn't that where the E36 is?
 
I'm not sure it's in classic limbo yet is it? Isn't that where the E36 is?
I'd say the E36 is teetering on the edge at the moment. You certainly see fewer of them about than you do E46 M3s and price-wise there are now cheap and very crap examples, or surprisingly expensive ones (been keeping an eye on them!). As soon as those cheap and crap ones are outnumbered by the pampered examples I think we can call it a classic.

On even more subjective terms, looks-wise the E36 is somewhere in between too. It doesn't look truly old, but it's quite a long way from truly modern vehicles now too.

E30 aside, the E36 M3 is probably my favourite-shaped 3-Series. Not very show-offy, but just enough aggression to work. And M-bodykitted 3-Series were much rarer then than they were with later 3-Series, so there wasn't the constant disappointment of thinking you'd seen an M-car for it to be a 318d. The E60 M5 is particularly susceptible to this.

The E46 however is currently a middle-man. It's now three generations of 3-Series old - which is what the E30 was when the E46 was a brand-new car. Only it's still driven and treated as a modern car - which is neat that it's so usable, but because of that it's also driven and treated with something approaching contempt by many of its owners, which is less good.
 
I've owned two of them identically spec'd apart from colour amongst the 7 M cars that I have owned (5 x M3's 1 x M Coupe, 1 x Z4M Roadster), both rag tops and to me they were cool but not subzero.

Maybe the passing of time will elevate this particular model to subzero. It was after all the end of the development line for a wonderful straight six naturally aspirated engine and ground breaking SMG system and so maybe it'll attract more interest in the future.

For me the E46's were good, reliable and fun cars but they never really set any fires alight. I really loved owning them and clocked over 150k miles in them. If they become subzero in time I won't complain.

I also hope I'm not considered a "douche" but I've come across plenty of drivers who are and mostly, they don't own M3's or any other type of BMW!
 
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