GTP Cool Wall: 2001-2006 BMW M3

[Tyger]

Then what does? The idea of "cool" as an objective thing is an antiquated notion, unless you are the Fonz or something. Coolness, and this thread, are necessarily subjective, and therefore worthy of discussion. Each of us are explaining what makes the car cool and desirable to us. In this cynical age, if you (or a hundred marketing people) try to maintain that a car is inarguably cool, you are pretty much dooming it to be seen as uncool from the get-go.

 

[TheCracker]

Voted cool, because I don't see the point of making a car "uncool" because the driver is a buttface.

Butt that's the whole point of the cool wall (as opposed to the the 'Good Wall' that can be found elsewhere) if a car is intrinsically linked with uncool people, then the car's image is uncool.

 

[Tornado]

I wasn't flipping out.

It's funny how writing in all caps with exclamation points while demanding I "find one source" to justify my opinion makes your post come across.

Fanboyism?

Yes.

I prefer HFS's 'Dyed-in-the-Wool BMW enthusiast' tag, apologies if my other single post in this thread came over as fanboyism .

My memory goes back quite a bit further than 5:30 this morning.

Anyhow, it seemed like an odd statement to make about this M3.

This was the M car that marked the turning point between the understated, borderline sleeper cars of the 1980s and 1990s and the ostentatious, barely-OEM-looking aftermarket-happy ones we've had since. Even the original M1 was absurdly restrained compared to its contemporaries. You yourself already explained as much:

It has big flared wheel arches, quad exhausts, a bonnet bulge, more aggressive front bumper and fender vents... which is the same exterior modification as the E92 M3 did and the F82 M4

The fact that said over the top qualities seem specifically targeted to attract the toolbox demographic only exacerbates things; though we were lucky that it took them a few years for them to act on that lust for "that car from Most Wanted" while they bided their time putting E46 M3 body kits on their 328Cis instead. Plus, the beefy muscled look was something that everyone loved at the time and was what Mercedes tended to do too, and it took until BMW did such tasteful things as not bothering to paint the carbon fiber roof and changing the slightly raised hood to a 1980s style power dome on the E92 to say "maybe they're trying to sell it to those people"; and now with the E84 we have every in your face aspect of the E92 but they added a double dome to the roof as well (plus the first car they showed being laden with that offset M stripe which is sure to be a hit with everyone who buys a 316i).



Hence "the one that jumped the shark." Hence "though it wasn't apparent at the time."

Also, someone who has a really patronising posting style should really let their self importance die down a bit before posting on the web.

My travels have taught me that having a sense of self importance tends to trip people up far less than having a predisposed opinion. Particularly when you don't care if you burn bridges if it allows you to call things as you see them.

 

[ClydeYellow]

So glad I live in Europe and don't have to suffer the euro-snobs and general d-bags ruining the good name of this car. But still, it ain't no E30 M3, so... Cool, but not sub-zero.

 

[homeforsummer]

I think driver/owner stereotypes are an immature way to look at cars. It implies you care more about how someone "looks" while driving a car than the intrinsic qualities of the car itself, which is uncool.

I really cannot agree less.

The intrinsic qualities of the car itself mean absolutely nothing until the car is out on the road, being driven. If that car is largely driven by complete prats, it has to impact on the car's coolness. If it isn't being driven, the car is just a piece of inanimate metal. This is where I agree with @Famine - a car sat in a museum isn't really a car, it's just a car-shaped exhibit.

Yes, the M3 drives great, but so do plenty of other cars that don't have such a reputation for attracting utter tool-bags. The cars that aren't driven by tool-bags, the ones that don't appeal to utter tool-bags through their characteristics, are ultimately cooler than the ones that are.

Of course, it can work positively too. Would the Porsche 550 Speedster be half as cool if it wasn't associated - even morbidly - with James Dean? More controversially, would the Mustang be as cool if Steve McQueen hadn't driven one in Bullitt? Or even the Charger, driven by the bad guys in Bullitt?

A car is far more than the sum of its parts. The parts may well make for a great car on paper, but that can all be undone if that car exclusively appeals to idiots. It's why all the good work Colin McRae did for the Subaru Impreza has been undone by baseball-capped yobs, in the UK at least.

 

[GranTurismo916]

I don't care about the type of people who drive it, this car is cool. Other people don't form my opinions.

 

[Joel]

I think driver/owner stereotypes are an immature way to look at cars. It implies you care more about how someone "looks" while driving a car than the intrinsic qualities of the car itself, which is uncool. There's also hypocrisy if, for example, you hand-wave the gay jokes about Miatas but your first thought regarding an M3 is "douchebag." Or if you consider the Miata a chick/gay car but hand-wave "stupid redneck" stereotypes when it comes to muscle/pony cars.

I guess why I'd disagree has to do with how appearance driven we are as humans. The reality is we all have a self image and make purchases and choices that align with our self image, even if it isn't the reality. I would never buy a Hummer, and I don't want a pickup truck. I'll be the first to admit it's because they're not consistent with my self image. I prefer the Mercury Cougar to the Ford Mustang. Why? Self image.

Good point on the Miata thing though, you're right that if an M3 is a douchebag car you have to acknowledge the image around the Miata. I guess it it comes back to self image to me, I can deal with the connotations of driving a Miata and there's nothing inherently negative or uncool about being gay or metrosexual, but I'd rather not be seen as a douchebag. Still doesn't mean I wouldn't get an M3 though, they're excellent cars and I don't think I'd be bothered enough by the image not to get one, it just doesn't necessarily mean that it's a cool car.

To me it's no different than clothing. American Eagle makes reasonably priced clothes, but you're going to look like an overgrown and insecure high schooler wearing it no matter what your reason for buying their clothes is. You're going to look like a tool wearing $100 Armani t-shirts no matter why you bought them. I don't see why it's any different to acknowledge that cars and their makes come with these stereotypes and images like virtually everything we buy does.

 

[Wolfe]

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

Straight line muscle-oriented cars are for "GRRGH TORQUE" meatheads. Lightweight roadsters are for haughty holier-than-thou enthusiasts. Supercars are for spoiled rich showoffs. Fuel-efficient cars, electrics, and hybrids are for haughty holier-than-thou greenies. Sporty AWD cars are for Ken Block kiddos and wannabe rally drivers. Anything cheap and remotely sporty is for high school kids, ricers, stoplight drag racers. Luxury cars are for pompous assholes. Old quirky cars are for hipsters. Minivans and crossovers are for soccer moms. Trucks are for compensating men. Off-roaders are mall-crawlers. Bland commuter cars are for the elderly. Nothing is immune. If you apply any of this to some cars and not others, you're being selective.

I vote based on what I think is cool. Sometimes it aligns with what I like. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's based on the metal, plastic, and rubber bits, and its history or the efforts that went into it. Not the meatbags you might see behind the wheel, depending on where you are.

If the ultimate intention of the GTPlanet Cool Wall is to reflect an "objective", formulaic common viewpoint of cool based on how the general public considers things, it should be a panel of judges rather than an open vote. Then those few could make all the lame predictable judgment calls, like how I knew "douchebag" would be the word of the day before I even opened this thread.

 

[GranTurismo916]

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

Straight line muscle-oriented cars are for "GRRGH TORQUE" meatheads. Lightweight roadsters are for haughty holier-than-thou enthusiasts. Supercars are for spoiled rich showoffs. Fuel-efficient cars, electrics, and hybrids are for haughty holier-than-thou greenies. Sporty AWD cars are for Ken Block kiddos and wannabe rally drivers. Anything cheap and remotely sporty is for high school kids, ricers, stoplight drag racers. Luxury cars are for pompous assholes. Old quirky cars are for hipsters. Minivans and crossovers are for soccer moms. Trucks are for compensating men. Off-roaders are mall-crawlers. Bland commuter cars are for the elderly. Nothing is immune.

I vote based on what I think is cool. Sometimes it aligns with what I like. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's based on the metal, plastic, and rubber bits, and its history or the efforts that went into it. Not the meatbags you might see behind the wheel, depending on where you are.

If the ultimate intention of the GTPlanet Cool Wall is to reflect an "objective", formulaic common viewpoint of cool based on how the general public considers things, it should be a panel of judges rather than an open vote. Then those few could make all the lame predictable judgment calls, like how I knew "douchebag" would be the word of the day before I even opened this thread.

This. This x100.

I don't understand why people let stereotypes form opinions. Because 99% of the time, they're not entirely true. @Doog drives a BMW and he doesn't seem like an :censored:hole.

 

[Tornado]

Nothing is immune, but not everything is equally affected.


Also:

If you apply any of this to some cars and not others, you're being selective.

So? Who says my criteria has to be the same for every car? Just like not every car suffers from its stereotypes to the same extent, not every stereotype is necessarily even a negative quality on a car's image.

 

[Zenith]

You don't have to find coolness important in a car, I certainly don't. But when you come to the Cool Wall that's what we discuss.

You don't go to the Rate the Looks of This Car Thread and give a Gumpert Apollo a 10/10 because you think performance is more important than looks.

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

Straight line muscle-oriented cars are for "GRRGH TORQUE" meatheads. Lightweight roadsters are for haughty holier-than-thou enthusiasts. Supercars are for spoiled rich showoffs. Fuel-efficient cars, electrics, and hybrids are for haughty holier-than-thou greenies. Sporty AWD cars are for Ken Block kiddos and wannabe rally drivers. Anything cheap and remotely sporty is for high school kids, ricers, stoplight drag racers. Luxury cars are for pompous assholes. Old quirky cars are for hipsters. Minivans and crossovers are for soccer moms. Trucks are for compensating men. Off-roaders are mall-crawlers. Bland commuter cars are for the elderly. Nothing is immune. If you apply any of this to some cars and not others, you're being selective.

Great! You've proven why you're wrong to vote cool on most of the cars in this exercise.

Cool cars exist. Some of those cool cars can even be somewhat related to those stereotypes.

The cars that practically define the stereotype are the especially uncool ones. The E46 M3 is one of them. If douchey sports sedans were fruits, this would be a red apple.

 

[Doog]

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

Straight line muscle-oriented cars are for "GRRGH TORQUE" meatheads. Lightweight roadsters are for haughty holier-than-thou enthusiasts. Supercars are for spoiled rich showoffs. Fuel-efficient cars, electrics, and hybrids are for haughty holier-than-thou greenies. Sporty AWD cars are for Ken Block kiddos and wannabe rally drivers. Anything cheap and remotely sporty is for high school kids, ricers, stoplight drag racers. Luxury cars are for pompous assholes. Old quirky cars are for hipsters. Minivans and crossovers are for soccer moms. Trucks are for compensating men. Off-roaders are mall-crawlers. Bland commuter cars are for the elderly. Nothing is immune. If you apply any of this to some cars and not others, you're being selective.

I vote based on what I think is cool. Sometimes it aligns with what I like. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's based on the metal, plastic, and rubber bits, and its history or the efforts that went into it. Not the meatbags you might see behind the wheel, depending on where you are.

If the ultimate intention of the GTPlanet Cool Wall is to reflect an "objective", formulaic common viewpoint of cool based on how the general public considers things, it should be a panel of judges rather than an open vote. Then those few could make all the lame predictable judgment calls, like how I knew "douchebag" would be the word of the day before I even opened this thread.

You stole my thoughts.

Granted, everyone has their own way of judging coolness, and I can totally see why someone would factor in the stereotypes surrounding the car because that kind of fits into the 'aura' of a car (stereotypes, history, the car itself, etc). I prefer the direct way of just looking at a car and going with my gut feeling, myself. I can see the viewpoint of judging based off stereotypes, but that just seems like a really short-sighted way to approach it. Limiting a car to its stereotype limits your understanding of it, unless you state otherwise. Now, I'm not trying to specifically defend the M3 (though I did vote sub-zero because of reasons), and I can totally see and acknowledge the douchebag stereotype, but to me, that doesn't seem like the right way of judging a car. Then again, there's no right opinion, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt!

This. This x100.

I don't understand why people let stereotypes form opinions. Because 99% of the time, they're not entirely true. @Doog drives a BMW and he doesn't seem like an :censored:hole.

<3

 

[Joey D]

Uncool, the owners are not the most personable people in the world and they often think they are racecar drivers. Also they attract the attention of all the wrong kinds of people, you know the ones that talk in chassis codes and are obsessed with Nurburgring times. The only thing saving it from seriously uncool is it came in that god-awful green/yellow color it came in, because awful colors are always cool.

With that said, I want one and I've wanted on since I first saw it.

 

[terminator363]

"I drive an M3 E46"

 

[motortrend]

Uncool, the owners are not the most personable people in the world and they often think they are racecar drivers. Also they attract the attention of all the wrong kinds of people, you know the ones that talk in chassis codes and are obsessed with Nurburgring times. The only thing saving it from seriously uncool is it came in that god-awful green/yellow color it came in, because awful colors are always cool.

With that said, I want one and I've wanted on since I first saw it.

I don't see what's wrong with chassis codes if the other person probably understands. It's much easier to say "E46" than "1998-2006 3 series". Heck, I don't even know which one they are referring to if it's a 2006 since they overlap.
On the other hand I usually tell people I own a "2001 M5" or "2001 5 series bmw" if they ask because I don't expect them to understand and probably would seem like a tool if I said "E39" and had to explain myself.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I've loved it since it was first revealed, and still want one incredibly badly, to the point that it's regularly the first car I check when I get lost on Autotrader for an hour. I'd even go to the necessary lengths of recreating a CSL over here, once I got my hands on a clean example.

Uncool.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Uncool sadly, but I want to drive one so badly (well, any M3 anyway).

 

[Joey D]

I don't see what's wrong with chassis codes if the other person probably understands. It's much easier to say "E46" than "1998-2006 3 series". Heck, I don't even know which one they are referring to if it's a 2006 since they overlap.
On the other hand I usually tell people I own a "2001 M5" or "2001 5 series bmw" if they ask because I don't expect them to understand and probably would seem like a tool if I said "E39" and had to explain myself.

People who talk in chassis codes are geeks, geeks aren't cool.

Most people don't care about chassis codes either, if they ask what you drive, they'll probably only understand "a BMW".

 

[ildd]

People who talk in chassis codes are geeks, geeks aren't cool.

Oh. I see how it is.
W203 W221 W211 AGHHHHH

 

[Kent]

Geeks are definitely cool in post 2000 America. Not sure about the rest of the world but here in the US the only thing cooler than geeks is good looking geeks.
I suppose in other areas it's not like that since geeks usually get good jobs and make money and in much of the world making money is bad/uncool but here in the US it's still cool to make money.

Btw, I still say cool, screw the stereotypes and Im too old to worry about what people think.

 

[Joel]

Geeks are definitely cool in post 2000 America. Not sure about the rest of the world but here in the US the only thing cooler than geeks is good looking geeks.
I suppose in other areas it's not like that since geeks usually get good jobs and make money and in much of the world making money is bad/uncool but here in the US it's still cool to make money.

Btw, I still say cool, screw the stereotypes and Im too old to worry about what people think.

The idea of geeks is cool. Geeks aren't.

Look no further than "The Big Bang Theory". You're not supposed to identify with the geeks. You're supposed to identify with Penny and laugh at them.

 

[skynyrd]

The only thing about this car more annoying than the rabid fanboys is the rabid haters. I will agree that a lot of BMW owners are total...expletives? Yes, that fits. I've known three as acquaintances and worked with another, and while two of the first three were mildly annoying, the one I worked with was well on his way to growing into the worst sort when he blew his 3-series-with-the-fake-M-badge's engine.

But the driver is not the car.

This car is cool. It just is. It's a fairly low cool, however...just above the barely-cool oddball/vaguely interesting type cars IMO. The looks don't do much for me (none of the 'regular' BMWs do), but everything else about it does.

 

[motortrend]

People who talk in chassis codes are geeks, geeks aren't cool.

Most people don't care about chassis codes either, if they ask what you drive, they'll probably only understand "a BMW".

They will, but even though it's a 13 year old car that's worth as much as a new Fiesta they'll somehow think I'm trying to show off, which is why I specify the year.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This. This x100.

I don't understand why people let stereotypes form opinions. Because 99% of the time, they're not entirely true. @Doog drives a BMW and he doesn't seem like an :censored:hole.

Yes because one guy out does what ten do in the same order...your logic is impeccable. As others have said and you can go read the rules, it's quite an easy look up, this isn't about what car you like or dislike or wish to have or not have. This as I said to the other user isn't a dream wall. There are plenty of cars I've voted uncool because they are asinine in various ways that make them uncool, but I'd sure love to fork over the money even if in turn I'm called uncool by default.

 

[Doog]

As others have said and you can go read the rules, it's quite an easy look up, this isn't about what car you like or dislike or wish to have or not have.

Nowhere did he even imply his opinion of 'coolness' was directly correlated to whether he liked or disliked the car.

 

[disinfected]

Fixed for you.

"I drive a BMW*"

That being said, always loved the E46 M3, and have looked into buying one recently.

The douche argument seems invalid because these same jokers are found in most types second hand BMWs. I don't think the BMW Douche is limited to just the M3.

 

[Harry6784]

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

Straight line muscle-oriented cars are for "GRRGH TORQUE" meatheads. Lightweight roadsters are for haughty holier-than-thou enthusiasts. Supercars are for spoiled rich showoffs. Fuel-efficient cars, electrics, and hybrids are for haughty holier-than-thou greenies. Sporty AWD cars are for Ken Block kiddos and wannabe rally drivers. Anything cheap and remotely sporty is for high school kids, ricers, stoplight drag racers. Luxury cars are for pompous assholes. Old quirky cars are for hipsters. Minivans and crossovers are for soccer moms. Trucks are for compensating men. Off-roaders are mall-crawlers. Bland commuter cars are for the elderly. Nothing is immune. If you apply any of this to some cars and not others, you're being selective.

I vote based on what I think is cool. Sometimes it aligns with what I like. Sometimes it doesn't. But it's based on the metal, plastic, and rubber bits, and its history or the efforts that went into it. Not the meatbags you might see behind the wheel, depending on where you are.

If the ultimate intention of the GTPlanet Cool Wall is to reflect an "objective", formulaic common viewpoint of cool based on how the general public considers things, it should be a panel of judges rather than an open vote. Then those few could make all the lame predictable judgment calls, like how I knew "douchebag" would be the word of the day before I even opened this thread.

Game. Set. [/Thread].

The cool wall on GTP doesn't measure the 'coolness' of a car, but the 'coolness' of the driver. Instead of posting a pic of the car and it's specs (which is ironic since specs are rarely used in judging a car's 'coolness'), I suggest the OP post pics of a person who is likely to drive that car and go from there. For example:

C6 Corvette Owners Nominated by Harry6784 ​

Stats:
Production: 1940's-1950's
Style: Gray hair, if any. Dark glasses, brightly colored polo shirt.
Likes: Corvettes, women a quarter his age, loafers.
Transmission Preference: Automatic
Related: Jaguar owners, Aston Martin owners​

 

[homeforsummer]

If we're required to vote based on the image of the people who drive these cars, it should be the "Seriously Uncool Wall" because all of the stereotypes are uncool.

We're not voting solely on the image of people who drive the cars, that's the thing.

In fact, we're not even voting on that. We're voting on the cars themselves, but those cars may be affected by those that drive them. Coolness is based on a number of subjective factors. When a subjective factor like how much of a bell-end the drivers are is part of that group of criteria, it makes for an uncool car.

The guy in the car thinking "I'm cool" while the rest of the world thinks he's a knob isn't cool, regardless of his own opinion. I'd argue the entire point of the cool wall is to look beyond whether you personally think a car is cool and take a holistic view on whether it's cool or not. I know it's a bit metaphysical that way but it's the only one that really makes sense.

To put it in simpler terms, "I think a car is cool" is roughly on par with "My mom thinks I'm special". You absolutely have to factor in a wider view of the car than your own, in my opinion.

That, and this:

Nothing is immune, but not everything is equally affected.

Also:

So? Who says my criteria has to be the same for every car? Just like not every car suffers from its stereotypes to the same extent, not every stereotype is necessarily even a negative quality on a car's image.

Also:

I can see the viewpoint of judging based off stereotypes, but that just seems like a really short-sighted way to approach it.

I can't speak for everyone here, but you'll note my original post on the car went beyond just the stereotype. But I think negative connotations to the outside world have to be considered for a vote to make sense. See "Mom thinks I'm special" above.

 

[Azure Flare]

It's really a shame that so many people miss the point of the cool wall.

*Scroll through discussion*

"I like it, I want one. Sub Zero."

*never visit thread again.*

Well, thats not a very nice thing to say, again...

 

[homeforsummer]

Well, thats not a very nice thing to say, again...

I can't tell whether that's sarcasm or whether you're just easily offended...