GTP Cool Wall: 2009 KTM X-Bow Street

[Bones Brigade]

All track-duty only vehicles are seriously uncool.

 

[Famine]

All track-duty only vehicles are seriously uncool.

It's a road car.

On the road, Germany

On the road, start of the Gumball 3000

On the road, near Kettering.

On the road, also near Kettering (and yes, the same one as two images up, 6 months earlier)​

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Hence also the reason why it's called the X-Bow Street.

The X-Bow RACE on the other hand...

 

[Bones Brigade]

I'm sorry, but it serves one function above and beyond any other. It can be driven on a street, but don't kid yourselves, it's a track car.

And regardless, it's still horrendously, terribly uncool.

 

[Famine]

I'm sorry, but it serves one function above and beyond any other. It can be driven on a street, but don't kid yourselves, it's a track car.

Of course it's a track car. It's not a "track-duty only" car though.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Please excuse my exaggeration, as I find the cars ability to take you to the grocery store inconsequential.

 

[Famine]

Whether you find it inconsequential or not is moot. There are "track-duty only" cars (Ferrari 599XX/FXX, for instance). The X-Bow, like many other trackday specials, is not amongst them as it is road legal and road viable.

My brother drives an Ariel Atom 2 245 to work most days - a 35 mile round trip - because the car is very much at home on the road and won't use more than 1.5 gallons every two days, beating his regular family car by a vast margin. He doesn't find its ability to take him to work "inconsequential".

The X-Bow is a road-legal track car. It is not a "track-duty only" car.

 

[Punknoodle]

I voted sub zero, I actually think it looks great, I'd love to have one. And who cares if something else does it better, I'm voting on the basis of the car alone

 

[Jondot]

Please excuse my exaggeration, as I find the cars ability to take you to the grocery store inconsequential.

While we're on grocery store trips, just gonna jump in and point out that it's actually just as practical in terms of boot space as a Toyota.

That one, specifically. And I'm guessing you won't argue with me when I say it's a road car.


And it offers the same levels of protection against the elements as a Smart Crossblade.

...which I'm guessing you're not going to try and argue is a 'track duty' car.

 

[astrosdude91]

I voted cool. I think it looks cool, which is half the battle for me. But, there are cars that do the job better.

 

[Zenith]

Jon: just because a car can't take groceries home from the market
nor protect the driver from the elements does not make
it a track car. You're arguement is just childish

Also, saying the X-Bow is a street car because it has the word "street" in it's name is the same as calling a Yugo Sport (made up) a good sports car. The name does not qualify a car for whatever it's intended to
do. If that were the case I would make millions off the Chickmagnet Supersport Eco

On topic...

Uncool. Outclassed on the track, useless to live with

 

[Famine]

Also, saying the X-Bow is a street car because it has the word "street" in it's name is the same as calling a Yugo Sport (made up) a good sports car. The name does not qualify a car for whatever it's intended to do.

The fact it's a street car makes it a street car. Look again at the pictures I posted which clearly show it on the street.

useless to live with

How do you know? My brother's done more road mileage in his Atom since he bought it than I have in all 5 of my cars put together. He doesn't think it's useless to live with - and he lives with it.

 

[Jondot]

Jon: just because a car can't take groceries home from the market
nor protect the driver from the elements does not make
it a track car. You're arguement is just childish

If you could point me in the direction of the sentence where I suggested anything in this thread was a 'track car', that'd be fantastic. Once you've done that, feel free to call me childish; an idiot; Regis Philbin; whatever you see fit.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Also, saying the X-Bow is a street car because it has the word "street" in it's name is the same as calling a Yugo Sport (made up) a good sports car. The name does not qualify a car for whatever it's intended to
do. If that were the case I would make millions off the Chickmagnet Supersport Eco

I'd love to know where you pulled that from.

The X-Bow Street is a road-legal (hence the "street") version of the X-Bow. The X-Bow Race is a track-only version of the X-Bow. See how it works?

 

[Radracing]

If you can get a license plate for it. It's technically a street legal car, then its a road car.

 

[Zenith]

Oh yes, technically the Caparo T1 is a road car and technically the X-Bow is a road car. They were both intended to be used on the street, but I can't see either of them really working. Perhaps you lot are arguing for the technical definition, while I am arguing for the practical definition.

Saying that's it's a street car because it's legal to use it on the road is acceptable, but I prefer my street cars to be able to fulfill a few basic tasks before I consider them true street cars.

Famine: You've got me on that one, I have no experience on how this car nor the Atom work as daily drivers. That doesn't change the fact that in my opinion, they wouldn't be much of a use

I still think that calling it a street car because it's named the X-Bow STREET is wrong.

I guess my question to you is this: What makes the X-Bow Street a street car?

 

[opladener]

What makes it a track-only car ? Its highly subjective if you aren't going by road legality, but a list of tasks it should be able to perform.

You don't expect a Lotus Elise to be able to transport your IKEA cupboard, still it is a road car, isn't it ?

Hell, even buying groceries for 2 weeks would be a challenge.

So what makes a road car a road car by your definition ?

 

[Famine]

Famine: You've got me on that one, I have no experience on how this car nor the Atom work as daily drivers. That doesn't change the fact that in my opinion, they wouldn't be much of a use

Yet earlier in the thread I gave an example of an Atom owner who finds it just fine in daily use. He even goes to play cricket in it.

I still think that calling it a street car because it's named the X-Bow STREET is wrong.

You have it backwards. It is the street version, so KTM call it the X-Bow Street.

I guess my question to you is this: What makes the X-Bow Street a street car?

Licence plates, road approved lighting (headlights: correct beam pattern and rating; sidelights: correct position and rating; turn signals/indicators: correct position and rating; brake lights: correct position and rating; foglights: correct position, visibility and rating; reverse lights: correct position, rating and switching), road approved tyres, road approved bodywork (wheels/exhaust not exposed - tyres must be covered above and not protrude sideways beyond body work, exhaust must not be beyond furthest appropriate surface vertically; no sharp metal edges), road approved mirrors, SVA test, collision testing data, emissions regs (low volume manufacturers don't have to submit cars for emissions tests in Europe, but the engines must pass minimum post-cat standards). Basically, if the car can pass one of these - and it'll have to once it's three years old - it's road legal.

This would qualify as a road legal car in the UK (where it is made), California and Germany - the two strictest territories for qualification as road approved.

 

[Zenith]

snip

See, you're going for the technical definition that the X-Bow is a street car. That's fine and dandy. I like my road cars to have more practicality than the bare-bones legal tests. A simple disagreement of definitions.

@opladener: This is a bit vague, but I define a street car as something that a driver can own as his one and only car, and still make his life work. The variable here is the owner, if a person is the equivalent of Tony Stark (just saw Iron Man) and has no need to carry people or groceries, then the X-Bow is a street car for him. When I define cars for the cool wall, I use myself. Since I do have groceries and kids to pick up, I do not consider the X-Bow nor the Lotus street cars. Corvettes, Ferraris, Lambos, etc. are the street car for a Playboy, but not me.

 

[exigeracer]

You don't expect a Lotus Elise to be able to transport your IKEA cupboard, still it is a road car, isn't it ?

Why presume such a thing?

 

[Dan_]

Why presume such a thing?

Lotus should start showing this to wifes of potential owners....

"Do you see dear? It has other purposes than high speed cornering...."

 

[niky]

So what makes a road car a road car by your definition ?

Wears number plates, you can drive it on the road.

See, you're going for the technical definition that the X-Bow is a street car. That's fine and dandy. I like my road cars to have more practicality than the bare-bones legal tests. A simple disagreement of definitions.

Hard to disagree with a term that is simply defined as a vehicle that it is legal to drive on the street.

Now if we were talking about a T-Rex, which is registered as a motorcycle, then you could probably argue it your way... but an X-Bow is legally registered as a car.

Since I do have groceries and kids to pick up, I do not consider the X-Bow nor the Lotus street cars. Corvettes, Ferraris, Lambos, etc. are the street car for a Playboy, but not me.

For work, I have to carry several people. Does that mean that a four-door sedan that can't carry more than five is not a street car?

 

[Famine]

See, you're going for the technical definition that the X-Bow is a street car. That's fine and dandy. I like my road cars to have more practicality than the bare-bones legal tests. A simple disagreement of definitions.

Then I'll draw your attention back to Jondot's post:

This has no trunk. It has no luggage space besides the passenger seat - just like the Ariel Atom and KTM X-Bow. Is this not a street car despite being fully road legal and sold in Europe, Japan and the US?

And check this puppy out:

You can fit one sports bag in this (under the bonnet/hood) - much like the Ariel Atom, in fact - though it looks in most superficial aspects just like one of the most practical cars on the market. I haven't seen many of them on the road - they're kinda rare - but I have seen them.

They're street legal. They're made to be street legal. They are street cars.

This is a bit vague, but I define a street car as something that a driver can own as his one and only car, and still make his life work.

Why? What does practicality have to do with the word "street"? You're defining a street car as a family car - or even a daily driver.

Since I do have groceries and kids to pick up, I do not consider the X-Bow nor the Lotus street cars.

My brother has two kids and a wife. He's no playboy (too ugly) and the Atom is his daily driver.

When I define cars for the cool wall, I use myself.

So does everyone. Cool is subjective. Whether it's a street car or not has nothing to do with whether it's cool or not.

And whether you like it or not - or if it fits your own personal definitions - the KTM X-Bow is a street car. You can buy it from the factory and drive it home.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

So we come to the point that we agree:

Aston Martin BDRS9 or Ferrari FXX are not street cars (actually some tuners made a street legal version of the latter). Since it is impossible to register them for the road.

On the other hand KTM X-Bow, Arial Atom, Mosler MT900, Ultima GTR, ... are not really practical for the road, but can be registered, so are street cars. This goes for many sports cars.

KTM X-Bow is extreme what about this Camparo T1 "Street car":

 

[Zenith]

snip

Alright, then to me a street car must be capable of supporting a family. That's my definition and I stick with it. I do recognize the accomplishment of the X-bow becoming street legal, it just doesn't matter to me like it seems it does to you.

The Caparo is an experiment, it just so happened to be too unreliable for the road. It's pretty much an extreme version of what the X-Bow is... which is already pretty extreme.

 

[Radracing]

Alright, then to me a street car must be capable of supporting a family. That's my definition and I stick with it. I do recognize the accomplishment of the X-bow becoming street legal, it just doesn't matter to me like it seems it does to you.

The Caparo is an experiment, it just so happened to be too unreliable for the road. It's pretty much an extreme version of what the X-Bow is... which is already pretty extreme.

So what shall we call your Dictionary then "Zenith' instead of "Webster"

 

[homeforsummer]

Alright, then to me a street car must be capable of supporting a family. That's my definition and I stick with it.

Then the definition you stick with is wrong. A street car is a car designed for the street. There's no grey area, that's just what it is.

I do recognize the accomplishment of the X-bow becoming street legal, it just doesn't matter to me like it seems it does to you.

It's no accomplisment that it's street legal. It was designed as a road car, so it being street legal is just a byproduct of that... it's more of an accomplishment that it's capable on the track, given that it was designed for the road...

As for it "mattering", Famine has simply been stating the facts. That you feel you need to redefine the meaning of "street car" indicates that it probably means more to you than it does to him...

 

[Famine]

Alright, then to me a street car must be capable of supporting a family. That's my definition and I stick with it.

So despite the myriad people who drive them on the street, they're not street cars?

The Toyota MR-S and Renaultsport Clio V6 can carry two but have no boot/trunk. Are they not street cars? I couldn't get half my family in an MX-5/Miata - not a street car?

I do recognize the accomplishment of the X-bow becoming street legal, it just doesn't matter to me like it seems it does to you.

It didn't become street legal. It was designed and built around road legislation in multiple territories.

The Caparo is an experiment, it just so happened to be too unreliable for the road.

What utter rubbish.

 

[Zenith]

Radracing: Go ahead. Isn't that the entire point of the cool wall?

HFS: Street-car and Street-legal are two different things for me. I agree that something is either street legal, or it isn't, but a "street car" is subjective. (in my opinion). Why would I redefine my definition if it works for me? The word "street car" must define something different to you than it does for me. After all, words are used to represent an idea.

Famine: Every other person on this planet could drive an Ariel Atom (no hate) and it would still not be considered a street car in my book until it could support my personal needs.

Perhaps I should stop trying to explain my personal definitions on the internet...

Become/accomplish: Bleh, poor word choice

 

[Famine]

Famine: Every other person on this planet could drive an Ariel Atom (no hate) and it would still not be considered a street car in my book until it could support my personal needs.

Luckily the automotive industry is not geared around your needs.

You didn't answer whether the Toyota MR-S, Renaultsport Clio V6 or Mazda MX-5/Miata are or are not "street cars".

Perhaps I should stop trying to explain my personal definitions on the internet...

Or stop pretending that your personal definitions are the correct ones. It doesn't matter what you or I think a car is or isn't - it is what it is.

In this case it's a street car. Your opinion is that, for some reasons personal to you, it isn't. I don't care either way. But it is a street car, regardless.