GTP Cool Wall: MB 300SL Gullwing. Voting Closed

[Dragonistic]

This might be an idea, although I think I would need to figure out some way to look at the amount of people who voted and determine a percentage off of that. However I'm thinking a cool rating of 98% or higher with at least 75% of the voted being in Sub-Zero, could justify it.

I'm going to mull this over and do some math to figure it out.

I'm going to suggest, yet again, using a points method. Why? Technically a car that has 100 votes for sub zero and 1 for uncool, would then not be made special when a car with 25 cool and 76 sub zero would be classed as special. Points will remove the single, or 'odd' opinion becoming a major factor and get an average of everyone. There's plenty of folk on the forum capable of the maths I'm sure (if I am, I'm absolutely certain someone else is, if not many).

I'm sure the other polls could be retrieved and given new results to. Points and averages will go towards removing what would be considered bias against certain vehicle types by few individuals.

 

[Nicksfix]

A timeless classic.

SUB-ZERO

 

[YSSMAN]

Sub-Zero

C'mon. Its an icon on so many levels, and so many cool people have owned them. Hell, my Grandfather even considered trading in his Chrysler for one way, way, way, way back in the day before they were worth a bazillion dollars.

 

[High-Test]

This car is Sub-Zero.

Consider all of this in terms of the 1950s.

We have a car that is 200+ horsepower, blisteringly fast, and it is a styling masterpiece. Not to mention the sheer engineering geekiness that is this car. The six won't fit under the low hood? No problem. Tilt it. The gullwing doors were revolutionary.

It was a Benz that didn't weigh as much as the moon.

 

[homeforsummer]

Not to mention the sheer engineering geekiness that is this car.

Engineering geekiness does not make a car cool. Except for engineering geeks. But then being a geek in general is not cool (I speak from experience), unless you're putting it on because you're in a band, in which instance it also makes you a tw....it. And if you're a "twit" then you're not cool either.

From this we can deduce that only geeks find other geeks cool, and only geeks find engineering geekiness cool, and as not everyone is a geek then engineering geekiness can generally be accepted as uncool.

You could have just left it at gullwing doors and had done with it

 

[boiltheocean]

I'm slowly starting to see that the cool wall probably isn't going to work the way it currently is done because of stuff like this. People either vote for the wrong reasons, thinking cool somehow equals performance.

That is the main reason I never wanted to introduce putting performance statistics in the Original Post alongside the image. I knew it would just turn into a huge game of Top-Trumps.

 

[Joey D]

That is the main reason I never wanted to introduce putting performance statistics in the Original Post alongside the image. I knew it would just turn into a huge game of Top-Trumps.

I do believe in the next round of voting specs will be dropped from the initial post as it's getting kind of irritating that people vote based on performance figures rather then coolness levels.

 

[High-Test]

Engineering geekiness does not make a car cool. Except for engineering geeks. But then being a geek in general is not cool (I speak from experience), unless you're putting it on because you're in a band, in which instance it also makes you a tw....it. And if you're a "twit" then you're not cool either.

From this we can deduce that only geeks find other geeks cool, and only geeks find engineering geekiness cool, and as not everyone is a geek then engineering geekiness can generally be accepted as uncool.

You could have just left it at gullwing doors and had done with it

A bit late for that. Engineering is the reason why any good Benz is cool. You think I like most of the 80s and 90s Benzes because they're fast?

Absolutely not. In my opinion, what makes an old Mercedes cool is how over engineered they are. The A-pillar of the W124 was used to suspend a 190E.

Timeless designs are just icing on the cake.

There's really nothing traditionally accepted that makes a 1987 300D with 267,000 miles on it cool. It's the sheer ridiculousness of everything in the car that makes it. Every little detail was thought out. It's the quality that makes a Mercedes cool. The click that the switches and buttons make is substantial and somehow satisfying. They just have this.. presence.

Maybe I'm an outlier. I did, after all, refer to my old E320 as Ulrich von Nerdwagen...

I'm hopeless. I just ended six months in Mercedes-Benz hell but I still love them.

 

[homeforsummer]

I do believe in the next round of voting specs will be dropped from the initial post as it's getting kind of irritating that people vote based on performance figures rather then coolness levels.

Call me cynical, but I suspect that it won't be hard for people to

a) Tell if a car is quick or slow simply by looking at it or
b) Have a quick look on google

Speaking personally, I pretty obviously don't vote based on performance and I don't even vote based on whether I like a car or not. However, many others do, and I doubt removing the specs from the original post in future polls will make much of a difference to the way people vote. Unfortunately for the polls to be truly representative of cool and uncool you'd require everyone to behave with complete honesty, humility and with no bias, and that isn't going to happen.

A bit late for that. Engineering is the reason why any good Benz is cool. You think I like most of the 80s and 90s Benzes because they're fast?

Au contraire, I'm loathe to call any Benz post 1970-odd cool (obviously this doesn't apply to the 300SL as it's pre 1970, but then your comment mentioned 80s and 90s Benzes), regardless of engineering. I like a fair few of them and certainly respect them, but I'd struggle to call any of them cool. The small ones are repmobiles now and the bigger ones are for fat, unimaginative plutocrats who need oversized engines to carry their oversized bottoms around.

And engineering does not make a car cool. Park up by the pavement in a 300SL and people will think you're cool. Walk up to them and explain that Mercedes had to tilt the engine to fit it under the bonnet and they'll come to their senses and realise you're a tiresome car geek and realise that no work of art is sacred any more.

A car is made cool by what people think of it. And the vast majority of people aren't even slightly interested in how a car is built, they're interested in how it looks, goes, sounds and feels. A Ford Fiesta could be the most fabulously engineered car in the world, but it would still be deeply uncool because it's a Ford Fiesta.

And of course, once again, a car isn't necessarily cool just because you like it. I like the Honda Del Sol but it's not even slightly cool. By the same definition I have no interest whatsoever in Land Rover Defenders, but they're undoubtably cool cars.

 

[Joey D]

Call me cynical, but I suspect that it won't be hard for people to

a) Tell if a car is quick or slow simply by looking at it or
b) Have a quick look on google

Speaking personally, I pretty obviously don't vote based on performance and I don't even vote based on whether I like a car or not. However, many others do, and I doubt removing the specs from the original post in future polls will make much of a difference to the way people vote. Unfortunately for the polls to be truly representative of cool and uncool you'd require everyone to behave with complete honesty, humility and with no bias, and that isn't going to happen.

Oh come on, you've been on GTP long enough to know that a lot of people won't go through the trouble of using Google because they are either lazy or don't care enough . The Import thread really shows that, people will often ask aren't those such and such tires or rims when you easily could have Googled it and saw that it was or wasn't.

But you are right, a lot of member seem to have zero concept of how a cool wall works. I'm still trying to figure out how to make this better but nothings coming up, maybe I'll just accept the cool wall is broken and just let it drive on with it's tail lamps out.

 

[Lucas]

I'm slowly starting to see that the cool wall probably isn't going to work the way it currently is done because of stuff like this. People either vote for the wrong reasons, thinking cool somehow equals performance

And who are you (or anyone for that matter) to tell people that their reasons are wrong? The point of this is to see what people think of cars. If I have to limit my reasons to vote uncool or cool, then I (and some people) will be seriously pissed, since we have an opinion on what we consider cool or not.

It's more stupid to think a good looking car is cool. If we aren't supposed to vote based on performance, what do we rely on to vote? Looks? Success? Racing history?

 

[Joey D]

And who are you (or anyone for that matter) to tell people that their reasons are wrong? The point of this is to see what people think of cars. If I have to limit my reasons to vote uncool or cool, then I (and some people) will be seriously pissed, since we have an opinion on what we consider cool or not.

People can vote however they want, that doesn't mean I'm just going to ignore it. If I think they are voting for daft reasons I am going to call them out on it. It's part of the debate that goes on in the thread. You don't have to limit anything, in fact limiting is what is actually hurting the cool wall.

It's more stupid to think a good looking car is cool. If we aren't supposed to vote based on performance, what do we rely on to vote? Looks? Success? Racing history?

Looks aren't the sole decider of coolness either. You should look at everything, performance, looks, owners, fans, history, design elements, purpose, target audience, etc. By looking at all of those factors and then some, you are making a more accurate judgement. Basing your decision on one thing defeats the point of the cool wall.

If it was determined solely on looked it wouldn't be the cool wall, it'd be the GTP Looks Wall. If it was determined solely on performance, it'd be the GTP Performance Wall. Get it?

 

[Lucas]

You should look at everything, performance, looks, owners, fans, history, design elements, purpose, target audience, etc.

Then everyone's votes would be the same, as long as everyone draws the same conclusion. If they don't, then I don't see what you are complaining about, we are getting the same result as we are now.

Some people don't care about those things you listed. Some people just don't think as some of them as important as others, like myself.

If it was determined solely on looked it wouldn't be the cool wall, it'd be the GTP Looks Wall. If it was determined solely on performance, it'd be the GTP Performance Wall. Get it?

I get what you mean. I don't get what this have anything to do with what I said, since I never said we were supposed to rely on one thing and one thing only. "Coolness" is determined by an opinion people have, and they form however they want to. We can't agree, and that's for sure.

If Paulie before had said something like "I don't like this car, I only like Holdens" (pardon me, it's just an example Paulie ) about this car, then I wouldn't have said anything to him. But if he said something like "this car is slow" then I would have talked with him about it, since at the time, the car wasn't slow, and that's a fact.

Honestly, the Cool Wall threads should be place only for debates about objective things, as every thread in the forum should be. Arguing about why someone doesn't like a car I do for a reason that is subjective is... stupid, since it will get us both nowhere.

 

[Joey D]

Then everyone's votes would be the same, as long as everyone draws the same conclusion. If they don't, then I don't see what you are complaining about, we are getting the same result as we are now.

Some people don't care about those things you listed. Some people just don't think as some of them as important as others, like myself.

Errrr, no, everyone should not arrive at the same conclusion. Take a muscle car for example, I think most of them are ugly, have a lot of idiotic fans, have a fairly uninspiring history and are owned by mostly d-bags. This is why I would vote them uncool, I looked at numerous factors and determined the car didn't add up to cool. I didn't just look at the car and go "it's slow, uncool" or "it's ugly, uncool".

If you don't care about looking at everything then why bother voting? Just because it's the internet does not mean you shouldn't be expected to put some thought into it. Actually there is no excuse not to put thought into it, most cars have been in a queue for well over a month and even then you get three days to figure out your decision.

Honestly, the Cool Wall threads should be place only for debates about objective things, as every thread in the forum should be. Arguing about why someone doesn't like a car I do for a reason that is subjective is... stupid, since it will get us both nowhere.

If you find that sort of discussion stupid then you don't have to participate in it, no one is forcing you to do so. Discuss something else, address other points or address the discussion at hand. You are allowed to discuss whatever you want as long as you conform to the forum rules.

I feel questioning why someone voted the way they did is very relevant to the thread topic. If you don't, then as I've said, you have the choice to skip over it.

Anyways if you wish to further this discussion, I'd suggest using the What Makes a Cool Car thread.

 

[CarBastard]

Was one of the fastests in it's time and was one of the first cars to have fuel injection...my vote is obvious .

 

[Cano]

For aaaaall the cool stuff mentioned above, and for me, that it’s very genesis was the Carrera Panamericana and that it took it so easily, even with a buzzard trough the windshield, makes it one of the sub-zeroest cars to ever exist.

 

[JacoJa]

Does anyone else think 'Paulie' should be banned from the cool wall?

 

[Adamgp]

He's entitled to his opinion.

 

[Joey D]

Does anyone else think 'Paulie' should be banned from the cool wall?

I think a lot of people should be banned from the cool wall, but since I have no power to do that and it goes against forum rules I won't.

 

[Sureboss]

It looks stunning, you'd make people stop what they were doing if you drove past them in one. If you asked someone if they wanted a ride in one, you'd get a huge grin.

It's Sub-Zero.

 

[Dragonistic]

Does anyone else think 'Paulie' should be banned from the cool wall?

He's entitled to his opinion.

Exactly, just like we can't force people into voting without taking performance into account. I usually go for the, what would someone think of this car, what would I think if I saw someone in it and generally is it a nice looking car (nice might actually mean ugly but rather menacing or whatever, as looks are very much received differently from person to person).

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

D'oh, not thinking, voted cool 'cause I thought it was the new one.

300SL is, without question, sub-zero. New one loses points 'cause it's just a bit too phallic.

 

[JCE]

I cannot believe that in a thread about the Gullwing there are actually people arguing the fact that it isn't cool. The argument should be does it go in its own fridge or not?

 

[senamic]

It should go in the fridge. Convince the tallest person on GTP that it is sub-zero (shouldn't be hard), and put the fridge on a shelf that only they can reach. Job done.

 

[Dragonistic]

I think if it remains over 75% Sub Zero (has any other car done that yet? That it deserves something even though from a personal perspective I wouldn't have given it one.

 

[Jim Prower]

Fridge isn't cold enough. Put it on the Freezer.

 

[senamic]

Fridge isn't cold enough. Put it on the Freezer.

It'll make the fridge a freezer!

 

[Joey D]

Actually I got something better planned then just a boring freezer. Need creativity after all.

 

[Jim Prower]

Ohhh...Deep Space? Is it Deep Space? Because Deep Space is about as close as it gets to 0 deg. K

 

[Philly]

Sub-Zero. There's nothing else to say. It just is.