GTP Cool Wall - Pontiac Fiero
- Thread starter Tornado
- 70 comments
- 17,548 views
- 3,008
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
Jim covered exactly what I was going to say.
Honestly, I don't see why people like to bash body on frame cars. You wreck a unibody car, if you bend a rear quarter panel, then the car is pretty much totalled, as you can't replace that, as its part of the unibody. You can absolutely thrash a body on frame car, and anything short of wrapping it around a tree is fixable.
- 1,397
Stop. I said quite a few. I DID NOT in anyway hint or insunuate that it was almost all of them. I said quite a few of them were still made that way in the 90s. Exact words. If we go back to the 80s we can probably find more examples. 70s, even more.
I will give you that people wanted to go fast, and go fast for cheap. Hell, it completely justifies why GM did things the way.
The point is this; you buy the car new, you love it, you tell your buddies all about this fast car you have. People talk about it, its loud, it makes the right noises and goes like hell. You happened to buy exactly no options when you bought, but thats how you wanted it.
You decide you want better performance, so you trade up to whatever car. You tell your buddies you just bought a Corvette, or whatever you traded up to. Your buddy asks you if you are gonna sell your goat, and you say, sure. Money changes hands, title changes names, your buddy goes home in his new wheels. He probably loves it. Maybe he buys something else and sells it too down the road. At some point, maybe your buddy, maybe someone else, someone is going to buy that car thinking its a hot performance car, and get a rude awakening when they go into that corner too hot or try to brake at the last minute and the car doesn't stop. In their mind, they might ask themselves "what kind of performance car is this that can't turn or brake?" And that my friend, is how reputations start.
I'm not knocking GM. I'm knocking their execution, which begot the reputation they now have.
I guess it boils down to me thinking that if you are gonna call a car a performance car, it better be something that backs it up. All mouth no trousers won't cut it. And that is where GM has fallen short. All mouth going in a straight line simply means no trousers everywhere, because straight line performance is ONE metric of a performance car. Essentially, they dug their own grave by doing what they did.
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- 10,620
- gtp_jimprower
To me, "quite a few" means "far more than two platforms." You're still trying to justify your stance that American cars are backwards, '50s relics.
AHA! HERE'S THE ANSWER!
You think you can rightfully compare a Subcompact to a Midsize, AND throw out ALL technical advances. Let's see...It's 1964. Radial tires haven't been widely accepted yet...Formula 1 even uses crossplies. Tires are all narrow and skinny. Disc brakes are expensive. Given all of this, the big-engined GTO could actually go around corners quite well for a car of its' age. The suspension was stronger and tuned to help rotate the car better. It had larger wheels and wider tires, sometimes alloy wheels. Of course, it was an intermediate. You didn't expect it to handle like an all-out sports car. It was too heavy...too physically large. But you could still drive on the highway with a modicum of comfort, too. If you bought the BMW, you gave up a lot of that.
And here's the problem. Performance has nothing to do with what Joe Schmoe wants in a car. He wants the car to start every day. The GTO appealed to the kids who were looking to grow up a bit from the '32 Ford Coupe they'd built with their own hands. To enthusiasts. I dunno if you've noticed, but there aren't many of us out there. In fact, the GTO only produced 10,000 real models that first year. Granted, that was double what they predicted, but that pales in comparison to the millions of Chevrolets sold to Joe Schmoes that year. Mostly bargain sixes.
What happened was that, in 1974, when Mr. Schmoe, esq., walked out to his new, fuel-efficient Vega, He turned it over, drove a little while, then the engine started clattering and threw a rod. and Mr. Schmoe threw a fit. It just so happens he stopped in front of the Datsun Dealership...
...and that's why the Camry is the Best Selling Car in America. Which may change in a little bit, due to the gas pedal debacle. Performance, straight-line, or cornering, has nothing to do with it.
Lemme try to put this into a final context.
If the world were made up of car enthusiasts, Toyota, as it operates now, would not be Number One. In fact, Alfa Romeo would be much more popular than it is. But, fact is, the "average" person is not a car enthusiast, and, he probably doesn't even know much more about how his car works than "I put gas in it and it goes." Which is why, when it doesn't work, it's frustrating. He has to pay someone else a lot of money, and he's without his own vehicle from anything from a few hours to a few days. The less often this happens, the more likely he's gonna feel good about his choice - cars are expensive investments, after all.
The fact is, a car catered to enthusiasts won't have as big an impact upon reputation as a car touted as inexpensive, reliable, and easy to own. These promises are made by almost any car company with a large volume output. When a car company cannot deliver on these promises...as the downfall of the 1970s started, and continuing with the disposable compacts of the '80s, '90s, and '00s...their reputation becomes tarnished. Ruined.
and that, not the GTO, is why GM is where they are today.
End of offtopic.
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- 24,339
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Let me put it this way: my "midsize" 1967 LeMans, which is the same chassis and nearly all the same sheetmetal as a GTO, is much closer in size to a modern Crown Vic than it is to anything else. It's about the size of a 7 series, not a 3 series. And it didn't cost anything like what a 3 series would have cost in equivalent dollars. Of course a more expensive, smaller car is going to handle better. And it wouldn't have been faster, even so.
- 1,397
You're mistaking my using the goat as an example, as me excoriating it as the definitive example of lousy American cars. It isn't. The point was that it's performance heritage was one dimensional, probably because of the lack of disc bakes as standard etc. FWIW BMW made its current reputation on the back of the Neue Klasse/ 2002, which had all those "performance features" standard.
But we're just talking circles around each other
But we're just talking circles around each other
- 2,529
- G-D Luxembourg
- GTP_Vince_Fiero
I just posted some more details on my GM Pontiac Fiero GT in Post a pic of your real car thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3762404&postcount=3961
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3762404&postcount=3961
- 1
i have v6 85 with a stock engine in and my dads fiat x19 can't touch, i've driven them both and like the fiero allot more, even if it is a GM patchwork car
- 3,200
- Murcie LP710
If your dad's X-19 COULD catch it, I would have laughed. And not necessarily at the car.
- 2,529
- G-D Luxembourg
- GTP_Vince_Fiero
On top of that V6, yes it is not impressive in performance,
but drive it, still not impressive comparing to my diesel company car,
but in the end the Fiero is really nice to drive with the engine just behind you and quite a nice growl coming out of the exhausts.
P.S.: I would not recommend it as a car to prepare for circuit, but would like to see it in GT5, certainly the Indy 500 version with
, it might convince some people on the qualities of this car.
