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GTP Cool Wall - Toyota Celica GTS ZZT231
- Thread starter Tornado
- 54 comments
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- 4,741
- Bogota,Colombia
- GTP_ARP93
Out of my 22 rules, 5 pros and 2 cons apply = 5 out of 7 = 71% = Cool, but barely. The lack of a rally racing version and being FWD is a bummer.
Joey D
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- 47,490
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
The BMW MINI is uncool though and not just because I drive it either.
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Anyways, the Celica. I don't really know where to put it. I really like the looks, it has a decent amount of power, the handling is good and it's pretty fun to drive. However every time I see one it's driven by a smokin hot blonde with a fake tan, large sunglasses, and the entire Abercombie line of clothing on (not complaining, just an observation). They typically have a flowery lei hanging from the rear view too. Cars driven by hot chicks aren't exactly cool to me. It's somewhere in the middle of cool and uncool, however I think it's maybe one or two clicks to the uncool side so I'll vote that way.
CAMAROBOY69
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- CAMAROBOY69
I have always liked these Celicas a lot. I really started to notice them in GT3. Anyone remember the Jesse James jet Celica car?
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
Cool, but barely there
It's a bit too interesting for uncool or neutral.
It's a bit too interesting for uncool or neutral.
- 27,219
- United Kingdom
PAYE for the win...
Gotcha. Unless I'm unobservant though the same doesn't really apply over here. I just thought it was a little bit of an unfair criticism aimed at a car that's actually a pretty decent sporting coupe, and one that always gets good reviews from enthusiast magazines (that said, so do the Porsches you mentioned...)
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- Boss-Barracuda
You got me, I apologizeAlthough I don't remember voting for the espace, and I meant to vote cool for the Volvo after realizing it was fwd. I retract my statement and put forth another, fail wheel drive is never cool, unless it's cool.
But on a more serious note, I don't feel that fwd cars are completely uncool, I just think, for a lot of cars, it's a whole lot of wasted potential for lower production costs. The only decent fwd cars that I've ever driven were my cousins saab and my other cousins grand prix, and although each of them were pretty fast (they're both decently modified, especially the grand prix), there is so much more fun to be had if they were rwd. I wish I could give a proper example of why I loathe fwd but it always comes down to donuts and powerslides. I'm just a typical American V8 nutjob.
It all comes down to the definition of cool, and I was definitely in the wrong when I said that. Fwd cars can be very cool, even if I don't like where the power is going.
JacoJa
Premium
- 2,327
- Australia
I instantly fell in love with the design of the 7th Generation Celica 10 years ago, when it was first released. To me back then, it looked mad... like a concept car compared to other road vehicles.
Although since then there have been plenty more modern designs, it still convinces people into thinking its a brand new car. Based on looks alone, Ive completely disregarded the fact that its Fail wheel drive. Its cheap, fun to drive, has a clever engine and is easy to maintain/ensure. Most importantly, I own one... Which instantly deems it cool!
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Although since then there have been plenty more modern designs, it still convinces people into thinking its a brand new car. Based on looks alone, Ive completely disregarded the fact that its Fail wheel drive. Its cheap, fun to drive, has a clever engine and is easy to maintain/ensure. Most importantly, I own one... Which instantly deems it cool!
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Eric.
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- Ebiggs
You just based the entirety of the FWD drivetrain on driving a Grand Prix. Oh no you di'in't!
Although I don't remember voting for the espace, and I meant to vote cool for the Volvo after realizing it was fwd. I retract my statement and put forth another, fail wheel drive is never cool, unless it's cool.
But on a more serious note, I don't feel that fwd cars are completely uncool, I just think, for a lot of cars, it's a whole lot of wasted potential for lower production costs. The only decent fwd cars that I've ever driven were my cousins saab and my other cousins grand prix, and although each of them were pretty fast (they're both decently modified, especially the grand prix), there is so much more fun to be had if they were rwd. I wish I could give a proper example of why I loathe fwd but it always comes down to donuts and powerslides. I'm just a typical American V8 nutjob.
It all comes down to the definition of cool, and I was definitely in the wrong when I said that. Fwd cars can be very cool, even if I don't like where the power is going.
- 87,512
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- GTP_Famine
That's because when you get to a certain level of crank torque - about 200ftlb will do it - FWD gives up. You start to require more complex suspension and a really very nice chassis to get even small increments down onto the ground without squirrelling all over the place (or "torque-steering").
If you insist on making torquey FWD cars, you'll end up driving big sacks of crap. Saabs have enough torque that they'll outrun a Porsche 911 in-gear from 70mph to 100mph, but not only is that pointless (the 911 will change down a gear or two and spank you) it ends up further ruining the dreadful Vectra chassis underneath it. The Pontiac GP is another good example - a 3.4 litre FWD car. Great for overtaking if you can't be bothered to change gear, useless at rest and in bends. If you're wanting to put power down, you don't want FWD.
The fun is elsewhere with FWD. All other things being equal, a RWD car can accelerate out of a bend sooner than an FWD car can - but the FWD car can brake better and turn in better, and actually has a couple of percent more power to use down the straight (typical drivetrain losses are a couple of percent higher for front-RWD than FWD). So if you like bends FWD isn't a barrier to fun, but if you prefer straights you'll probably enjoy non-FWD more. In fact it's worth noting that the "Cool" FWD cars on the wall are those with not much power and a reputation for sharp handling, and the "Uncool" ones are not. Except the Volvo, though I think the BTCC carried a few votes for it.
I like donuts and powerslides, but it's not really an arbiter of cool - one look at the cool wall (and your own voting
) tells you that. The 9ff could manage some pretty awesome donuts, I'd wager, but it's as cool as fancying your sister. 👍
Like the sportscar thread, I don't really think the drivetrain matters in considerations of "cool". What matters is what's done with it.
- 7,313
- Land of the smelly onion
Don't pick on the Grand Prix, it's a heck of a motor carriage. 👍
My GP came from the factory with fwd and (some say underrated) 280ft/lbs. When stock it had almost no torque steer.
Now I put on some mods and at my last dyno the car put down 484ft/lbs (hyperactive torque converter, real number is probably ~350). Still manages to handle it quite well, with less torque steer than my old '98 Ford Escort which on it's best day mustered up 125ft/lbs.
- 3,770
- Boss-Barracuda
Actually I barely drove the GP, but my cousin showed me what it could do. Only a GT but he's done a bunch to it. I only drove it with cruise control through SC on the way up to NH. Terrible feel though, I couldn't handle the thing coming off the highway, mooshy power brakes with drilled and slotted rotors and steering you can't feel, was almost as bad as my moms van.
The Saab on the other hand was amazingly better than I though it would be. Great steering feel and good brakes, feels almost the same as my Volvo. It also had loads of power (and torque steer), the only downside being he couldn't afford a computer and was stuck at 15psi, the thing would be a monster otherwise.
- 23,800
- Philippines
And even the 200 ft lb limit is debatable... as it'll all depend on the geometry of the drive-axles (equal length or nearly equal length helps), the presence or absence of LSD (same as with RWD once you're past 250-300 ft-lbs in a light RWD sports car) and the width of the tires (though for practical reasons, most manufacturers don't like wide tires in the front).
I've driven turbocharged front drivers with that much torque, and they're not a total mess in the corners... well... not any more of a mess than the regular cars they're based on are... and are decent if you've got the differential and tires to deal with it.
The figures keep moving with tire and suspension technology. Which is why a 200 hp first generation Focus RS is a total mess (sometimes) while the new Focus RS requires at least 300 hp to be almost as messy.
I've driven turbocharged front drivers with that much torque, and they're not a total mess in the corners... well... not any more of a mess than the regular cars they're based on are... and are decent if you've got the differential and tires to deal with it.
The figures keep moving with tire and suspension technology. Which is why a 200 hp first generation Focus RS is a total mess (sometimes) while the new Focus RS requires at least 300 hp to be almost as messy.
GTjazzabrandy
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