GTP Cool Wall: V6 Hyundai Genesis Coupé . Voting Open!
- Thread starter Joey D
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Refering to the first post: I asume that if the Genesis wasn't a Hyundai, and it wasn't of an uncool brand, you would vote it cool? I mean, if you consider it awesome, then I asume you would consider it cool, if it wasn't for the fact it is a Hyundai. Which directly contradicts the statement of your last post, "it can't be a cool car made uncool by its brand". You obviously said that even awesome Hyundai's are uncool because they are Hyundai's. That's the same as telling me that even cool cars are made uncool by its brands, which you are denying. You do are well aware that it is a fallacy to apply the properties of a whole to its parts, right?
My point is that if you vote a car uncool because of it's brand, then you must also vote a car cool because of it's brand. But the latter doesn't make sense, nor the first one, since we are voting cars based on what they are individually, not on their brands. You indeed said you thought it was an awesome car.
Not to mention it's stupid to vote based on brands, since it doesn't make sense. If you can make sense out of it, then explain to me how. It would make things easier for me that way, you would spare me some words.
Refering to the first post: I asume that if the Genesis wasn't a Hyundai, and it wasn't of an uncool brand, you would vote it cool? I mean, if you consider it awesome, then I asume you would consider it cool, if it wasn't for the fact it is a Hyundai. Which directly contradicts the statement of your last post, "it can't be a cool car made uncool by its brand". You obviously said that even awesome Hyundai's are uncool because they are Hyundai's. That's the same as telling me that even cool cars are made uncool by its brands, which you are denying. You do are well aware that it is a fallacy to apply the properties of a whole to its parts, right?
My point is that if you vote a car uncool because of it's brand, then you must also vote a car cool because of it's brand. But the latter doesn't make sense, nor the first one, since we are voting cars based on what they are individually, not on their brands. You indeed said you thought it was an awesome car.
Not to mention it's stupid to vote based on brands, since it doesn't make sense. If you can make sense out of it, then explain to me how. It would make things easier for me that way, you would spare me some words.
You're thinking of this too logically. This is not a "how good a car is wall", It's a cool wall. That means that this is completely opinion-based (unless you're Jeremy Clarkson, then it's a dictatorship) differing from person to person.
Some people may find a brand is very important to how cool something is, for example clothing, why do people spend 10 times the amount of money for clothing with high-end brands even if ultimatly they are just the same type of clothing?
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Refering to the first post: I asume that if the Genesis wasn't a Hyundai, and it wasn't of an uncool brand, you would vote it cool? I mean, if you consider it awesome, then I asume you would consider it cool, if it wasn't for the fact it is a Hyundai. Which directly contradicts the statement of your last post, "it can't be a cool car made uncool by its brand". You obviously said that even awesome Hyundai's are uncool because they are Hyundai's. That's the same as telling me that even cool cars are made uncool by its brands, which you are denying. You do are well aware that it is a fallacy to apply the properties of a whole to its parts, right?
My point is that if you vote a car uncool because of it's brand, then you must also vote a car cool because of it's brand. But the latter doesn't make sense, nor the first one, since we are voting cars based on what they are individually, not on their brands. You indeed said you thought it was an awesome car.
Not to mention it's stupid to vote based on brands, since it doesn't make sense. If you can make sense out of it, then explain to me how. It would make things easier for me that way, you would spare me some words.
It would depend on what brand the Genesis would be if it weren't Hyundai.
Coolness doesn't depend on how good or bad a car is... it's subjective. Porsches might seem cool to some, but for some people, a Boxster is a Coxster, simply because of the brand and following associated with it. Doesn't matter if it's an excellent car if the nut behind the wheel is a complete wiener.
But there is some perverted logic to the way Famine judges it. No matter how good a manufacturer makes a car, corporate identity often seeps through. A Hyundai Genesis Coupe might be an excellent car, but it's never going to be as cool as an MX5. Mazda is a company that can even make MPVs cool (or as close to cool as possible)... even Hyundai's best products still feel like final suspension fettling was done by a bunch of college kids on a class project... whereas even Mazda's most proletariat offerings have a sporty character.
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That's right, it isn't the same. My mistake to associate awesome with cool.
And I have understood why would you vote a car based on its brand. Asuming the answer is "because people see the car that way". Otherwise, please explain on how you voted the Genesis uncool, because I'm lost in reasoning. I don't need to agree with your vote, but I really want to see if this was just a "looks at brand --> votes" situation.
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Its uber cool.
Cool because it brings affordable rear wheel drive back to the masses, and away from the yuppies and the used car market.
If Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and everybody else starts making cheap, rear wheel drive sports coupes again, that will be a good thing.
You used to be able to get a nice fun runabout for about the same price as an economy car. A Mustang at low 20s is probably the best value, until the Genesis came along.
Vive la Hyundai.
Cool because it brings affordable rear wheel drive back to the masses, and away from the yuppies and the used car market.
If Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mitsubishi, and everybody else starts making cheap, rear wheel drive sports coupes again, that will be a good thing.
You used to be able to get a nice fun runabout for about the same price as an economy car. A Mustang at low 20s is probably the best value, until the Genesis came along.
Vive la Hyundai.
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You sure you have understood? I suggest you go and research what a brand is.
- 1,397
Following your logic, they could make a car thats as sexy as an Aston Martin and more capable than the R35 Skyline and it would still be uncool, because it's a Hyundai. Thats. Just. Dumb.
By that logic the Toyota 2000GT is unsexy because of the rest of the Toyta lineup at the time, the NSX for the same reason, the Miura becasue Lamborghini were making tractors, the first Corvette, the 300SL Gullwing, etc etc etc. I'd like to see your voting record vis- a- vis those models.
Retarded logic. Big fallacy in your thinking. However you want to state it.
This thread, and the others, are not "brand" judgements, but "model" judgements, and each one deserves to be judged on it's merits.
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Surely if thats the case, then the threads should be titled for just the make, and not the model of the vehicle. There shouldn't be a separate thread for the 190E 2.5- 16 EVO and the AMG SL60 Black Series. There shouldn't be separate threads for the E30 M3, the E39 M5, etc etc etc
If we are judging by make, then yes, Hyundai is not near the realm of cool.
But the thread is titled as to the coolness of the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, not just Hyundai.
If we are judging by make, then yes, Hyundai is not near the realm of cool.
But the thread is titled as to the coolness of the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, not just Hyundai.
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It is no longer the 1960s, the 1980s, or the 1950s, so that logic holds no water.
One of its merits is that it has a fantastic warranty. Ooh, exciting.
For the record, I don't particularly care about branding (I voted uncool, 46.3%, because I like the 370Z and Genesis 2.0T more). Some people do. Subjective!
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Probably, yes. Just like many of the examples you provided, actually (some more than others).
Possibly. Depends on the circumstances.
The Ferrari 412 Automatic is perhaps the worst Ferrari ever made, at a time when Ferrari was the coolest company ever (Miami Vice and the Testarossa), and probably was thought of as such when the car was new, but I think it crazy cool regardless. The Mondial is essentially the same idea from the same time period with the same surrounding circumstances and you couldn't pay me to even sit in one. Again: Subjective!
Where is the logic in you passing objective judgments over a person's subjective and arbitrary reasoning in response to a subjective and arbitrary topic?
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No. That's. Spot. On.
Sexy != cool. Capable != cool. Hyundai != cool. It's not rocket science.
Hyundai, right now, don't make cool cars. "I drive a Hyundai" is not a cool statement. But they have started making non-average cars now - some might even say that the Mk1 and Mk3 Hyundai Coupe was their first actually "good" car. In a few years time, when their old, dull models have been washed away and they have a line-up which might even be desireable we might look back upon these cars and think "Yeah... this is where they turned the corner... It's a coooool car."
But right now, Hyundais aren't cool.
They're public votes. Feel free to look them up. Though quite what "unsexy" has to do with "cool" is something only you can say.
Being a turd is no barrier to being cool. Being awesome is no guarantor of cool. This isn't a "Good Wall". It's a "Cool Wall". Take one look at the 9ff...
Remember the Jaguar XJS? When that came out everyone hated it - it was the successor to the E-Type but significantly uglier and usually brown. A very, very uncool car. Today, however, the car is still awful and massively expensive to run, but now it's a cool car.
Moving away from subjective things, take the Lamborghini Countach. At launch the fastest car in the world - the very definition of "supercar". Today you can buy a £25k Ford that'll beat it down the strip. Is the Countach still a supercar when a modern hatchback which very definitely isn't one can take it on and win?
Things change with time.
Just because you can't follow it doesn't make it retarded or fallacious.
Okay. Step 1 on the Hyundai Genesis Coupe individual model cool rating. It's a Hyundai.
Where's the problem?
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In that case it would be a cool car, because the looks, driving ability etc would just be so good that it would be able to overcome the badge. Some cars (for example the Miura) managed to achieve this and went on to make the brand. However with the Genesis the sum of its components just dosnt out way the negative aspects of the badge.
Of course in 20 years time we will probably be saying something different, as Hyundai do appear to be slowly heading the right direction.
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Actually... the very idea of a "cool wall" itself is absurd. Not everyone has the same definition of cool. Or follows the same system of "cool". You'll gain very little from nitpicking Famine's logical arguments for his cool system because it's internally consistent. And as long as it's internally consistent, given that coolness itself is utterly subjective, there's really not much to argue about.
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Doesn't mean it is or isn't daft. You can be precise, but still miss the mark.
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Then I can be subjective in return...I think you're being narrow-minded and daft. But, meh, that's just my opinion. Sorry if it hurts.
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- PureAwesomeness
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Very true and 'internally consistent' is the crux of the matter. Famine has his own ideas as to what qualifies as cool and won't be persuaded any other way. Fair enough. Problem is he has a tendency to express his opinions as though they were fact. I think some people have a problem with that.
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The entire concept of a Cool Wall is subjective. There is no "in return".
Do you think everyone who doesn't rate every car you do is "narrow-minded and daft"? Do you think that, perhaps, they might think the same of you?
Why would it hurt? You're someone on the internet. I couldn't possibly be convinced to care less.
PureAwesomeness
In the matter of subjectivity every opinion is fact.
The people who've voted this car as cool think it's cool. You cannot ever claim that "I think this car is cool" isn't a fact. You only run into problems when people think their opinion is more right than someone else's and set about them for daring to think otherwise.
Joey D
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