GTP WRS-Online : Event 46 : Twin Ring Twin Ring Motegi

[pilmat]

Sorry I missed it My wife was fed up with the rig in the living room, so I have been given a nice corner in her office


I should be able to make the NA race next week!

 

[WRP001]

Congratz to Sean. Here are the results:

Sean won just above everything there was to win except fastest lap in the oval.

 

[gman1647]

That was a lot of fun (once again).

In the first race I was behind Ray and Shawn had just lapped me. There were other leaders behind, so going into the hairpin (I think) I took an outside line and braked a bit early to give them room. Instead of the leaders, though, it was Con behind me for position. I suppose my early braking threw him off and he just barely tapped me. Had I recognized it was for position I would have defended in a more predictable manner and not thrown him off. Fortunately, I don't think it affected him too much. I was on old tires so I spun, then when I tried to reenter the track, the old tires didn't grip and I looped it again. Race over for me.

In the oval race I had a good battle going with Manu for awhile, but I was running behind or outside of him for most of it, and my tires were shot about 5 laps from the end. I think if I would have pitted about 5 laps earlier the fresher tires could have gotten me another position or so.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun tonight. Looking forward to next week!

Congrats, Ray, on taking the D5 crown, and to Shawn on the overall win.

 

[Mamba]

Is there a difference between running a lap where the is no tire wear, somehow when I was practicing in the lounge I forgot to turn on tire wear and over 1 lap I did a 1.47.8 but when I turned it on I couldn't get the same result. This was quite strange considering I was running the practice online. Maybe the tires were cold, or something in that case how do you heat up your tires before a quali lap?

-----------------

@gman yeah the battle was great, I was relieved when you dived into the pits, I was surprised by how fast I caught up with @GTP_gooners in the oval

 

[Ealirendur]

Is there a difference between running a lap where the is no tire wear, somehow when I was practicing in the lounge I forgot to turn on tire wear and over 1 lap I did a 1.47.8 but when I turned it on I couldn't get the same result. This was quite strange considering I was running the practice online. Maybe the tires were cold, or something in that case how do you heat up your tires before a quali lap?

Yes, in two ways. First, it also turns on Fuel Consumption at the same time, which adds the fuel mass (~100kg?); that also changes the handling somewhat.
The other part is that the tire temperature model seems to be different when wear is turned on; it's easier to stress out the poor little dears. Both of these slow you down; the added mass especially.

 

[Hydro]

Running with the tire wear set to off will always produce faster laps.
The tires remain consistent as opposed to warming up and then deteriorating, and just seem to always have slightly more grip available. (Edit: treed by Ren )
Fuel is also a factor that is affected by that setting, so in order to simulate the race properly always make sure the room is setup as per the event OP.

Congrats on the win Shawn div 3 my 🤬
And to Mohit for 2nd.

Welcome back Tim 👍 What do you think of Motegi? I forgot to ask

 

[mohitraina91]

Nice win Shawn. That was a good battle we had going!

Is there a difference between running a lap where the is no tire wear, somehow when I was practicing in the lounge I forgot to turn on tire wear and over 1 lap I did a 1.47.8 but when I turned it on I couldn't get the same result. This was quite strange considering I was running the practice online. Maybe the tires were cold, or something in that case how do you heat up your tires before a quali lap?

There is a big difference running with tire wear on, and we ALWAYS run with tire wear on in the races. It would definitely have affected your race preparations, as the car is different to drive when the tires are worn. Cold tires are slippery, then you are in the optimum window, then depending on the car/tire, there will be a gradual drop off in grip and performance.

As for tire warm up, in this combo I just found driving fast like a regular hot lap on the out lap would put in heat into the tires, and in most cases this is enough. As long as your tires are not the dark blue shade they are when you leave the pits, you're good to push.
_____________________________________

Very, very rare case

There have been a couple of instances where I haven't managed to get the heat into the tires (LMP's on racing hards usually). In those cases I drop the abs to 0, brake hard, and accelerate hard. You have to be careful to not let the tires go red, otherwise you're just wearing them out, which won't do you any good.


EDIT: Tree'd by Ren and Marc. I'm going to bed now .

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Enjoyed my first races with the WRS gang.

Given my TT times I didn't have any huge expectations going in and so was resolved to stay out of the way of the leaders. Turn 2 bit me early and hard but I eventually got that sorted and that was the key to staying ahead of gman. Found myself battling Con for a good bit of the race. He got ahead of me at the hairpin when I moved over to let one of the leaders (Hydro? Mamba?) through. But I managed to stay in touch and pipped him at the line when he had a bit of a spin. We collided when he came across the track (note to self, aim for the place the spinner is about to leave, rather than trying to anticipate where he's going) but I was surprised to win the drag race. My tires were pretty much shot and I suppose Con's were too. Sorry about the contact, I tried my darndest to avoid it.

On the oval I was running EDK's setup and totally had missed the need to go +10/+10 on the ride height for on-line. Result was a car that was pretty much undriveable in the race. I turned some practice laps in the lobby post-race after folks on chat pointed out my setup error, and with the ride height set properly was able to do consistent 33.7s. That would have put me in the fight if nowhere particularly near the front. Lesson learned.

 

[mohitraina91]

Also I noticed something, I don't remember who it was, but I was coming up to lap someone and they drove clean off the track on purpose just to let me by .

Just moving off the racing line and dropping a little speed is enough guys .

 

[GTPorsche]

My ride height on the oval was 10/-10. It allowed me to drive the way I did while maintaining 32.3 or faster laptimes.

 

[Hydro]

That was me Ray. I wasn't exactly sure you had moved for me or missed the apex and I think Ron may have wondered too when he got by. Good to see you guys had a nice battle to the finish 👍
I probably should have only called Ron at first, passed him prior to the hairpin, then call and pass you on the next straight. Had I done that you and Ron would have been in the exact same positions once I got by. In the end, the slight confusion it caused wound up costing you a position and I had to almost stop when you and Ron were side by side in the turn. Sorry about that.

Mohit's right too, the best way to handle that situation is to just move off the line, allow the pass and don't challenge the other driver. Lapped drivers don't have to put their car at risk by taking a turn really wide or slowing down a great deal. Usually the pass won't happen in a tight turn like that so the passing driver would realistically have to wait until the straight that followed. After all, the passing driver has responsibilities as well, and sometimes patience from the lapping driver is the best option for all the drivers involved.

Admittedly, i wasnt being very patient because Mohit was on 2 more laps of tires, and with about 5 laps to go I was gaining fast enough that I figured a last lap duel would be possible, but with me on way better tires. Still wound up pretty darn close ~2 seconds iirc. I love those kinds of finishes, win or lose it makes for a great ending - as either the shark or the prey. Last lap battles are awesome - pretty sure you know that already

Great first event for this track 👍 really looking forward to the Enduro now.

 

[WRP001]

Welcome back Tim 👍 What do you think of Motegi? I forgot to ask

Thanks, I really like the track although it's really challenging to pass even if your faster. On the other hand there are many places to gain and lose tenths so it makes for some really fun battles.

I definitely had better pace tonight versus EU race so I'm starting to get a feel for it. I would have loved to have been up there with the top three and I think if I could erase lap 1 I would have been in the thick of it. At one point just after the first cycle of pits I was down to the leader by 32 seconds and ended up 20 seconds back.

As it was though, I had some good battles going through the pack. Effectively went from 9th to 4th which was fun and a real challenge. Very glad to be back and hope to get back some consistency next week (consistent at the ring, not likely, maybe in 2 weeks).

Also it was my first 3D3 events (both EU and NA) with the driving line off which was one of my goals after my return. I've run other races without the line assist before, but never one of our official events. I was just as fast, but found at times my mind would wander and I'd miss a braking point by a touch. Seemed more likely to happen than with the driving line glowing red in your face, but also could be the long layoff from racing. Basically that's what happened on the first lap tonight... I missed the brake point drove into the sand rather than punt you [Hydro] at that spot. I still ended up tapping you, but most of my momentum was directed away from you (and also away from the racing line ) so the damage to you at least was minimal... I don't care for all that deep sand!

Anyway, my plan is to finally keep off the driving line permanently. Now I just need to get that left foot into action. 👍

 

[GTPorsche]

I really have no idea where that Q lap came from. Prior to that 1'48.1, my fastest was a 48.7 in a slipstream and on my own I barely managed 48.9s. I did manage a 48.2 during the race as I was chasing down Mohit before his unfortunate spin.

Then in the race I ran a bit wide in turn 3 and 4 and Mohit got passed and I figured it would be the end of my chances at winning the race. His tires must have been wearing pretty bad because I caught back up to him before his first pit stop. After my first stop, I was about 10 seconds back I think and then suddenly I see him sitting sideways on the straight and knew at that point I was going to win the race because there was no way his tires would last on one more stint safely.

After the second stop for me, I exited the pits about 1.5 seconds ahead and I stayed in the lead until I caught lapped traffic, which I had some trouble dealing with and ended up giving up the lead because of it. I managed to keep up and mohit's tires were to the point that he couldn't defend the lead and the race was mine.

Before the road course race, I had changed my oval setup back to how it originally was, other than a slight change in the ride height. Going into that race I had no idea how my setup was going to turn out. It worked in my favor as I was able to keep more momentum in the corners which gave me an edge getting out of turn 4.

I really enjoyed this combo as it was the first time I was able to challenge and battle for the race lead and the first time competing where my pit strategy actually worked for me.

 

[Twissy]

Video of EU race, Bumper cam, the Oval race starts at around 49:20

 

[Vinal]

Completely forgot about the race

 

[snowgt]

I'm still bothered by the fact that I chose the wrong strategy in 2 out of 2 races.

In the road course I thought I'd be losing too much time on laps 7&8, so I did 6 lap stints, but when I think about it now, I could have lost nearly 10 seconds on these 2 laps at the end of each stint and still would have been faster. What was I thinking?

So I was moving between 3rd and 8th in the race depending on the others' pitstops until I realised that all the others were, in fact, NOT coming in anymore in the end. Gave up a pretty solid 4th in the first stint that way.

On the oval I made a mistake and started to drop back, so I wouldn't have been able to run the laptimes of the pack up front, so, basically I just had no choice other than to try to get new tires and hope the other guys would slow and have to pit eventually. Of course, even with new tires, I didn't get a hold of a larger pack, so there was no catching up the lap I lost with the pitstop.

I still love that strategy-element to these races even though it cost me badly.

 

[WRP001]

I still love that strategy-element to these races even though it cost me badly.

I agree 100%, it definitely adds some realism to the events when various strategies come into play.

I would have loved to see what would have happened strategy-wise had we skipped the oval and ran 32 laps on the road course instead... but I was out voted.

If you like strategy then the longer races are where it's at. The enduro on August 5 is a prime example. In our previous enduro races we've had drivers on all different strategies from 8-11 lap pit cycles and in addition to the 5 minute "driver change/pause" mid-race it really mixes things up. Adding fuel also comes into play in a big way and has to be accounted for when deciding on pit strategy. Doing the math and figuring out what's going on while driving is a real challenge. In cases like that it would be nice to have a crew chief in your ear telling you where you stand and what you need to do, but makes for a really cool experience. You should try it.

 

[mohitraina91]

Road Course Race Report:

Started 2nd behind Porsche. In between turns 3 and 4 on lap 1, Shawn put a wheel on the sand and lost some exit speed, so I quickly pounced and took the lead. From then on I kept driving at a steady pace, maintain the gap to Shawn by around 1.5 - 2 seconds. Near the end of the stint Shawn caught up, so I decided to pit in early on lap 8 to cover off anyone short pitting.

Came out of the pits and drove hard, and after everyone was done their pitstops I held a lead of 6 seconds. Started to get a bit to comfortable for my own good, and on the exit of turn 4 went on the sand, spinning my car. I managed to correct it real quick, but by then Shawn had passed me. He was 2.5 seconds ahead, but with much fresher tires increased that to 4 seconds.

I knew if I stuck to the conventional strategies I would never catch him, so I decided to pit super early on lap 15, hoping a few laps on fresher tires would put me back ahead of him with a small lead. It would've worked out, but when I exit the pits I got stuck behind Tim, who was on worn tires. The combination of cold tires and loss of downforce from the car in front meant I couldn't get really close to Tim to make a pass. By the time I managed to get by him 1.5 laps later, I had lost around 5 seconds, and as a result Shawn came out 1.5 seconds ahead of me after his pits.

I put in quali laps and managed to catch up to Shawn. He lost a little bit of traction on the exit of the hairpin to the downhill straight, which allowed me to draft him and pass him. I kept him behind for 3 laps, but when the guy behind you is the same pace, but on much fresher rubber, it's hard to keep him behind. I know I certainly didn't make it too easy for Shawn .

 

[WRP001]

It would've worked out, but when I exit the pits I got stuck behind Tim, who was on worn tires. The combination of cold tires and loss of downforce from the car in front meant I couldn't get really close to Tim to make a pass. By the time I managed to get by him 1.5 laps later, I had lost around 5 seconds, and as a result Shawn came out 1.5 seconds ahead of me after his pits.

Exact same thing happened to me in the EU race.

When you short pit you take that risk. I got behind Mamba on worn tires, luckily for only one lap though. Mohit, I think you were behind me for two laps. Anyway, I tried to short pit and leap Ren in the EU race, but after I was held up a bit Ren came out of the pits *just* in front of me. I pressured him hard with his cold tires and got him to make a small mistake, but he had fresher tires so I was likely doomed to get passed again. However, luckily for me, he made a small mistake allowing me to get away so it paid off in the long run.

On a track where it's tough to pass you have to short pit with care. Just like real racing. 👍

I know you aren't complaining about it Mohit, but so the new guys understand. There is no blue flag in this situation. The blue flag only applies to lapped cars. If you are on the lead lap and a leader short pits you are under no obligation to move over. You are not allowed to "block" in this series *ever*, and that certainly applies in this situation, but you are allowed to the preferred line even if you are "off pit cycle" when you are on the lead lap.

 

[mohitraina91]

Yes definitely,if you're fighting for position, and if you're on worn tires, and the guy behind you is on fresher tires, don't give in without a fight .


Yeah Tim I knew the risk vs reward scenario when I short pit, and I was watching your triangles really intently. It's times like these I wish I had an f1 style pit wall to help me exit pits in "fresh air" .

 

[snowgt]

If you like strategy then the longer races are where it's at. The enduro on August 5 is a prime example. In our previous enduro races we've had drivers on all different strategies from 8-11 lap pit cycles and in addition to the 5 minute "driver change/pause" mid-race it really mixes things up. Adding fuel also comes into play in a big way and has to be accounted for when deciding on pit strategy. Doing the math and figuring out what's going on while driving is a real challenge. In cases like that it would be nice to have a crew chief in your ear telling you where you stand and what you need to do, but makes for a really cool experience. You should try it.

I definitely would have, but I'm lacking the time since I have to compete in the Austrian GT Academy finals this weekend. Well, you gotta set priorities...

After that, I'll make sure not to miss too many others though...

 

[WRP001]

I definitely would have, but I'm lacking the time since I have to compete in the Austrian GT Academy finals this weekend. Well, you gotta set priorities...

After that, I'll make sure not to miss too many others though...

Congratz and good luck. 👍 No doubt you've got your priorities straight.

Although our enduro isn't until the weekend *after* your finals, right?

 

[mcfizzle]

Photo Dump from NA Race:

Turn 1 at the start

Me bump drafting GTP_orsche

Back Straight

Top 3 at finish with lapped car in front

Turn 1 Start

Lap 1

Stalking Hydro

The result, went off before the hairpin

The end result, spin due to dirty tires in hairpin

Trailing GTP_mamba at the chicane

Tim making pass for position on lap 22

 

[ConRollins]

That was a lot of fun (once again).

In the first race I was behind Ray and Shawn had just lapped me. There were other leaders behind, so going into the hairpin (I think) I took an outside line and braked a bit early to give them room. Instead of the leaders, though, it was Con behind me for position. I suppose my early braking threw him off and he just barely tapped me. Had I recognized it was for position I would have defended in a more predictable manner and not thrown him off. Fortunately, I don't think it affected him too much. I was on old tires so I spun, then when I tried to reenter the track, the old tires didn't grip and I looped it again. Race over for me.

In the oval race I had a good battle going with Manu for awhile, but I was running behind or outside of him for most of it, and my tires were shot about 5 laps from the end. I think if I would have pitted about 5 laps earlier the fresher tires could have gotten me another position or so.

Anyway, I had a lot of fun tonight. Looking forward to next week!

Congrats, Ray, on taking the D5 crown, and to Shawn on the overall win.

I want to appoligize for that little tap. I thought you hit the brakes a little early, but still I should never have tapped you. I waited for you to get back on the track to give you your position back, but when you looped it, I went on by.

My race was off to a bad start from the beginning. I usually drive with active steering as it stiffens up the wheel movement. I didn't read close enough where it was not allowed. Without the steering assist, it was so easy to turn the wheel, it made the car feel loose. After a couple of off track excursions, I was so far behind, I thought I would change pit strategy to 1 stop. That didn't work so well. I was loosing so much time by lap 12 my race was already over. Then in the closing laps, I had absolutely no front tires at all and practically ruined Zippy's and someone elses race comming to the start finish line when I spun comming out of the last turn.

So I thought I would tighten the car up a little for the oval race. Hugh mistake! The car was good for about 3 laps and then was plowing so hard it would barely turn. I was loosing about a second a lap to the leaders. I decided not to pit. If everyone else pitted it would pay off, but as it turned out only a few needed to pit so I was doomed.

Congrats to all you guys for being such clean racers and to Shawn for his dominating performance.

 

[gman1647]

I want to appoligize for that little tap. I thought you hit the brakes a little early, but still I should never have tapped you. I waited for you to get back on the track to give you your position back, but when you looped it, I went on by.

No worries at all. It was a racing incident. Had that little tap occurred on lap two instead of at the end of my stint it wouldn't have caused me to spin. I hope you didn't think I was trying to accuse you of unsportsmanlike driving or anything. I just didn't realize we were racing for position, so I approached that corner differently. I would definitely call it a racing incident with fault on both of our parts.

Even though I brought up the rear, I did have a fun time. Looking forward to next week.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

My race was off to a bad start from the beginning. I usually drive with active steering as it stiffens up the wheel movement. I didn't read close enough where it was not allowed. Without the steering assist, it was so easy to turn the wheel, it made the car feel loose. After a couple of off track excursions, I was so far behind, I thought I would change pit strategy to 1 stop. That didn't work so well. I was loosing so much time by lap 12 my race was already over. Then in the closing laps, I had absolutely no front tires at all and practically ruined Zippy's and someone elses race comming to the start finish line when I spun comming out of the last turn.

So I thought I would tighten the car up a little for the oval race. Hugh mistake! The car was good for about 3 laps and then was plowing so hard it would barely turn. I was loosing about a second a lap to the leaders. I decided not to pit. If everyone else pitted it would pay off, but as it turned out only a few needed to pit so I was doomed.

There aren't a lot of advantages to being slow but the silver lining is that you don't take a lot out of the tires, so I was able to decide early on that I'd do a one-stopper. I pitted on something like lap 13 and likely could have gone one more. At the end prior to the encounter with Con I probably had two more laps of tire left before I absolutely and positively would have needed to pit. Post-crash, the spin and drag lit up all four tires bright red and it's a good thing there was nothing left of the race because there was nothing left of my fronts. During the race I was finding, slow as I was, that I could use the end-of-the-lap chicane complex to close up on the guy in front or gap the guy in back, at the cost of tire life. That complex and turn 1 seemed the hardest parts of the course on the tires. From the way Shawn whistled by me twice, I knew the leaders were two-stopping and so felt I had optimized my strategy.

The oval, disaster as it was in a tail-happy car, was interesting as I was able to pass Tim a couple times in turns 3 and 4 because he was pushing wide (Con's issues on that front were not unique). I'd promptly lose that track position to him in turns 1 and 2 because my car was so loose I couldn't keep my right foot planted there.

 

[WRP001]

The oval, disaster as it was in a tail-happy car, was interesting as I was able to pass Tim a couple times in turns 3 and 4 because he was pushing wide (Con's issues on that front were not unique). I'd promptly lose that track position to him in turns 1 and 2 because my car was so loose I couldn't keep my right foot planted there.

It was a disaster for me too and an experience that made me glad I'm a road course racer.

I had no tread left on the front right. In the EU race I had pitted once and basically went from the lead pack to a lap down and there was no way to make up 30 seconds. I got my lap back on the leaders, but still finished poorly. So in the NA oval race I wasn't going to pit no matter what. I ended up running on the rims the last few laps and couldn't get the car to turn even after shifting down to 3rd. I had one encounter with the wall each lap of those last couple laps. Someone passed me a millisecond before the finish line, which would have been sweet justice for my ineptitude on the oval, but turns out they were a lap down. Maybe it was you?

 

[ConRollins]

No worries at all. It was a racing incident. Had that little tap occurred on lap two instead of at the end of my stint it wouldn't have caused me to spin. I hope you didn't think I was trying to accuse you of unsportsmanlike driving or anything. I just didn't realize we were racing for position, so I approached that corner differently. I would definitely call it a racing incident with fault on both of our parts.

Even though I brought up the rear, I did have a fun time. Looking forward to next week.

Not at all on the unsportsman issue. It's just a cardinal rule in racing never ever ever run into the back of someone unintentionally. For some reason a lot of drivers think it's ok to tap some one to get them loose so a pass can easily be made, but I believe that to be dirty racing. I agree with you that it was a racing incident, but I am still a little disappointed in myself for tapping you.

 

[ConRollins]

It was a disaster for me too and an experience that made me glad I'm a road course racer.

I had no tread left on the front right. In the EU race I had pitted once and basically went from the lead pack to a lap down and there was no way to make up 30 seconds. I got my lap back on the leaders, but still finished poorly. So in the NA oval race I wasn't going to pit no matter what. I ended up running on the rims the last few laps and couldn't get the car to turn even after shifting down to 3rd. I had one encounter with the wall each lap omanf those last couple laps. Someone passed me a millisecond before the finish line, which would have been sweet justice for my ineptitude on the oval, but turns out they were a lap down. Maybe it was you?

I think it was the Gman. I know he went by me like a bat out you know where somewhere in the clossing laps. I could see you up ahead and thought I had a chance at one point of catching you, but my tires were just too shot to do it.

 

[WRP001]

Not at all on the unsportsman issue. It's just a cardinal rule in racing never ever ever run into the back of someone unintentionally. For some reason a lot of drivers think it's ok to tap some one to get them loose so a pass can easily be made, but I believe that to be dirty racing. I agree with you that it was a racing incident, but I am still a little disappointed in myself for tapping you.

Nobody in this series should think tapping someone to pass them is legit regardless of how light the tap is or how much faster they are. That is 100% dirty. I hope when you say "a lot of drivers" you aren't referring to anyone in this group. If you know of someone who has or does use that tactic bring it to our attention and it will be dealt with swiftly.

In the many races (approaching 100) I've run in this series nobody has ever intentionally tapped me to make a pass. I've been punted completely off track a few times, but never on purpose and the driver has always waited for me so gained no advantage. The OLR requires a concession like that for the offending driver specifically to prevent that type of tactic.

All of us make braking mistakes from time to time, especially when we are in a tight pack. I know for a fact that I tapped a car in front once or twice yesterday between the two races (EU and NA) and I was lightly tapped a few times myself. But none of these incidents ended up with anyone spinning or off track and in no case was an advantage gained. Well, I ended up off track rather than completely punt Hydro when I missed a braking point, but you get what I mean.

Just don't take advantage of that kind of mistake and don't make it a pattern and you'll be fine. I don't think there is a single driver in this group that has never accidentally tapped someone, even the aliens, so don't be hard on yourself either.