GTP_WRS Week 72 : Official Results

[ConRollins]

New picture from Firecracker:

As the curbing at this point is level with the red/white curbing, I believe it legal to drive on. But the photo clearly shows I had a few inches to spare to the fence.

I anxiously await the stewards decision.

 

[Windy_1238]

The replay shows that the car bounced off of something at that time. Maybe a second opinion on the replay is in order? 💡

 

[ConRollins]

The replay shows that the car bounced off of something at that time. Maybe a second opinion on the replay is in order?

That would be appropriate. Although I am not one to believe in invsible walls on city course where there are walls and fences. I believe the only invisible walls are found on the road courses to keep you from running miles into the grass or severely cutting corners like at The Test Track.

Again I'll await a stewards decision.

 

[Vagabond]

I anxiously await the stewards decision.

I'm not a steward I realise but it looks fine to me. All hard surfaces are track and if there's no collision noise or speed drop on the trace in the data logger then you're good to go. 👍

Edit:

The replay shows that the car bounced off of something at that time. Maybe a second opinion on the replay is in order? 💡

Use the data logger to check of there's a corresponding dip in the trace at the point you think there is an impact.

Although I am not one to believe in invsible walls on city course where there are walls and fences..

Unfortunately GT courses are littered with invisible collision barriers... all of them.

 

[Windy_1238]

I'm not a steward I realise but it looks fine to me. All hard surfaces are track and if there's no collision noise or speed drop on the trace in the data logger then you're good to go. 👍

Edit:

Use the data logger to check of there's a corresponding dip in the trace at the point you think there is an impact.


Unfortunately GT courses are littered with invisible collision barriers... all of them.

I bow out, it needs to be looked at by another. DQ'ing someone is too final and a sticky wicket.

 

[Cats_PJs]

I thought that would be dirty to bump the curb because it would be possible to use the side of it to carry more speed out of the corner.

I threw out my best lap that bumped the side of a curb in t1.

Not trying to cause trouble, just the way I see it, I'm usually wrong about these things.

 

[ConRollins]

I thought that would be dirty to bump the curb because it would be possible to use the side of it to carry more speed out of the corner.

I threw out my best lap that bumped the side of a curb in t1.

Not trying to cause trouble, just the way I see it, I'm usually wrong about these things.

I would agree with you on that Cats. I threw out an otherwise great lap early because a tire brushed the side of the curbing before turn 1. However:

All Surfaces are Track
No Contact with Walls or Invisible Walls
Any Contact, No Matter How Minor, Will result in a DQ

Nothing here about curbs. Unless the rulling commitee is willing to change the definition of a curb to be a wall or object, then riding atop or against a curb should be legal. As you can see, I am not brushing up against the curb, I am driving on top of it which makes it a horizontal surface which in my book makes it part of the "all surfaces are track" rule.

The question remains, however, as Firecracker states, did I hit an invisible wall. I checked this area many times before submitting and came to the conclusion that I did not. I could hear nothing from the interior view, or see on the data logger anything that would suggest hitting an invisible wall. The car does jerk slightly as the tire comes down from the ramp affect of the red/white curbing but I maintain this is a result of steering input in setting up for the jog in the track at that exact instance.

Still, I will abide and respect any stewards decision in the matter.

 

[Hydro]

I'll take a look too guys 👍
Invisible walls are such a pain in the 🤬, hopefully we haven't found a new one here.

 

[Speedy6543]

I have two photos, but don't know how to attach them to the post. Any help there will be good.

And I made such a nice guide about it.

 

[Arianrhod]

Wow, some amazing times up there as usual. I'm relieved to have still got on the podium for D2 - incredible times by transamguy and gooners. 👍 I think I need to spend more time working on my last sectors instead of relying on my first two so much. I hope one day I'll actually beat my handicap. Here's my replay anyway, as requested. I used the Mercedes SLS.

 

[Windy_1238]

And I made such a nice guide about it.

Ah, and you did with such clarity too!! Thanks for the guide, I didn't know where to find such things!

 

[Windy_1238]

Now let me try out my new found knowledge! thanks to Speedy!!

[/IMG]

Just seeing if I could download the picture.......Nothing else.

 

[ConRollins]

Well got home and started reviewing the replay for my own sanity and I am even more convinced now that it is a clean lap. I see no indication of bouncing off of anything and hear nothing while in the in car view.

All camera angles at several time points frozen around the spot show it to be clean also.

I stand by my submission.

 

[Windy_1238]

Well got home and started reviewing the replay for my own sanity and I am even more convinced now that it is a clean lap. I see no indication of bouncing off of anything and hear nothing while in the in car view.

All camera angles at several time points frozen around the spot show it to be clean also.

I stand by my submission.

You're probably right Ron, that's why I backed out of reviewing the replay with the meager knowledge and experience that I have with WRS.

 

[ConRollins]

You're probably right Ron, that's why I backed out of reviewing the replay with the meager knowledge and experience that I have with WRS.

Oh no! You gave away my real name!

Well let's just see what the experts have to say. I hold no grudges here mate. I understand we all have to call them as we see them. I'm just wondering if all those years fighting fires, well, if maybe a little too much smoke got in your eyes?

 

[Allibubba99]

I meant that my T3 was alot slower. I thought it was awesome actually! I was wrong.

Here is my replay.

Al

 

[Windy_1238]

Oh no! You gave away my real name!

Well let's just see what the experts have to say. I hold no grudges here mate. I understand we all have to call them as we see them. I'm just wondering if all those years fighting fires, well, if maybe a little too much smoke got in your eyes?

Maybe so Ron, and maybe too much exhaust fumes got in you're eyes?!! Gaeshi

 

[ConRollins]

Maybe so Ron, and maybe too much exhaust fumes got in you're eyes?!! Gaeshi

I am really laughing so hard right now. Thanks man, I needed that.

Let me see if I can put the replay up here from youtube:



Yep, that works.

 

[Windy_1238]

I am really laughing so hard right now. Thanks man, I needed that.

Let me see if I can put the replay up here from youtube:



Yep, that works.

Yup, Yup, Little Smoky but I still see same thing.

 

[MilleRSVR]

Congrats to all the Div. winners and podium finishers.

Attached is my replay.

 

[boediebouer]

Sorry for taking so long with the replay, but here is my PAL replay. BTW I used the AMG

Congrats to the winners!! 👍 👍


View attachment GTP_wayna week 72.zip

 

[Hydro]

Sorry about the delay in reviewing this one, I got to it really late, and by the time it was looking sorted out I just went to bed.
It was really this pic that stood out:

The left rear is very close there, and as the car was moving left to setup for the chicane it was looking like the tire may have hit the curb.
Coincidentally the data logger showed jumps in every line that would (I should say could) indicate contact with either an invisible wall or the curb itself.
However the data was from a fraction of a second later (the data logger actually does not include a laptime indicator ) and was actually due to the left rear tire going airborne for a brief second (as shown in the next pic) which caused a slight drop in speed, change in RPM, and changes to both G force readings - readings normally consistent with contact, except that in this case the lateral G's dropped and the RPM increased for a very brief moment - the reverse of what would be expected from contact.

It was quite a lesson in analyzing the data results, because at a first glance all indicators suggested the car had contact with something.
Fortunately it turned out to be a clean lap, and the original call stands : 7---1'45.742---GTP_ConRollins

Nice lap - I never would have thought to take a line that wide through the looping turn in T2 👍

 

[ConRollins]

Sorry about the delay in reviewing this one, I got to it really late, and by the time it was looking sorted out I just went to bed.
It was really this pic that stood out:

The left rear is very close there, and as the car was moving left to setup for the chicane it was looking like the tire may have hit the curb.
Coincidentally the data logger showed jumps in every line that would (I should say could) indicate contact with either an invisible wall or the curb itself.
However the data was from a fraction of a second later (the data logger actually does not include a laptime indicator ) and was actually due to the left rear tire going airborne for a brief second (as shown in the next pic) which caused a slight drop in speed, change in RPM, and changes to both G force readings - readings normally consistent with contact, except that in this case the lateral G's dropped and the RPM increased for a very brief moment - the reverse of what would be expected from contact.

It was quite a lesson in analyzing the data results, because at a first glance all indicators suggested the car had contact with something.
Fortunately it turned out to be a clean lap, and the original call stands : 7---1'45.742---GTP_ConRollins

Nice lap - I never would have thought to take a line that wide through the looping turn in T2 👍

Thanks Hydro. The data logger info highlighted was what led me to believe it was clean and stick to my guns. I reviewed and reviewed and then reviewed some more and was quite frankly ready to concede maybe I did hit the wall. I feel bad about the whole thing as it was so close I should never have submitted the lap. I am going to take a break , at least from week 73 (I can't drive those darn LMP cars anyway) to get my head together and just enjoy driving some of the new cars won through the Accademy Challenge. A couple of laps araound the ring with the Leaf should take sufficient time don't you think?

Again thanks for taking the time and being so annalytical, your dedication to this organization is really appreciated.

Oh, the wide turn is no more than "Oops, I overcooked it going in again"!!

 

[Hydro]

No problem 👍 I'd much rather spend the time verifying a lap than the other way around.
It really was a very interesting incident to look at. It was the lateral g's that tripped me up a bit. Contact with the wall would have seen an increase in that measurement, but it dropped so it had to be something else. I looked over the pics again and had a 'eureka' moment when I saw the tire off the ground - also explaining the RPM increase and speed drop.

Kevin was part of the review as well and we traded several second opions back and forth in order to figure it out. I think we both came to the same conclusion at about the same time
I'm putting my CSI hat away for a bit...

The wide turn looked so planned though. A perfect double apex - seriously, the entrance and exit was perfect - right up to the inside guardrail 👍

 

[Windy_1238]

No problem 👍 I'd much rather spend the time verifying a lap than the other way around.
It really was a very interesting incident to look at. It was the lateral g's that tripped me up a bit. Contact with the wall would have seen an increase in that measurement, but it dropped so it had to be something else. I looked over the pics again and had a 'eureka' moment when I saw the tire off the ground - also explaining the RPM increase and speed drop.

Kevin was part of the review as well and we traded several second opions back and forth in order to figure it out. I think we both came to the same conclusion at about the same time
I'm putting my CSI hat away for a bit...

The wide turn looked so planned though. A perfect double apex - seriously, the entrance and exit was perfect - right up to the inside guardrail 👍

Sorry I started such a controversy, but on the other hand happy for the favorable results! Also glad that I did not DQ the replay and really mess things up. It looks as if we all learned something from it!

 

[Hydro]

Sorry I started such a controversy, but on the other hand happy for the favorable results! Also glad that I did not DQ the replay and really mess things up. It looks as if we all learned something from it!

You didn't cause any controversy, it was a very close call and you really had no option but to ask for second opinions in order to ensure the correct call was made.

That would be appropriate. Although I am not one to believe in invsible walls on city course where there are walls and fences. I believe the only invisible walls are found on the road courses to keep you from running miles into the grass or severely cutting corners like at The Test Track.

Again I'll await a stewards decision.

I just saw this comment and figured I'd show you this: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6798928#post6798928

Invisible walls are such odd little things. As much as the obvious walls are present on tracks like the TGTT, you need to go off track quite a bit to hit them. The opposite effect is found at Spa in the final sector. You can go way into the grass following Blanchemont (who hasn't ) but you won't hit anything unless you actually make it all the way to the barrier.
It's the ones that extend out from the barriers in unexpected ways that drive us crazy. Hopefully we won't be finding any more new ones - that was the main concern in this review.

 

[Windy_1238]

HYDRO:
Thanks for the info on the ruling for week 55! Very informative. 👍 I will use and become familiar with the Data Logger soon!

 

[ConRollins]

The wide turn looked so planned though. A perfect double apex - seriously, the entrance and exit was perfect - right up to the inside guardrail 👍

Well let me put it this way, I just can't seem to hold the speed through that section hugging the preferred line so I just let the car drift out and as soon as I see the green BP flower signs, I crank it hard right and step on it. It does seem to give a lot of speed down the short straight, but hampers the entrance into the left hander. I think holding the insdie line through that section is faster. I just need to master it.

As far as invisible walls, I hear what your saying. I will put it this way and maybe we can agree to disagree on it:

An invisible wall is like you and I described at Test Track and Spa, and Nurb GT sections, etc.. Something to keep you from going off the end of the earth or severley cutting the course.

What we have at tracks like Tokyo, London, etc..are poor or lazy programming walls. There is a wall or a fence or a guardrail or something to define the track boundary. Because programming the driving physics to match the actual artistic rederings of the track is so complicated and variable, PD has instituted a "close enough for government" approach. After all, how do you handle a car getting into a catchfence along a city street? First the mirrors are torn off, then the door handles, then the rear bumper grabs..etc. Naw! Lets just leave it as a solid boundary and put it as close to the track rendering as needed without getting the car actually into something we would have to open up a whole bunch of progamming on.

So while you may refer to them as Invisiwalls, I prefere to lable them as misplaced walls. Same thing in the end I suppose, just a matter of semantics.

Oh, and I can't say it enough, you and the rest of the admins and moderators for that matter, are the greatest! Your tireless efforts, dedication, and personnal time put into this game so the rest of can play can never really be appreaciated as much as it deserves. But know that each and everyone of us appreaciates all of you efforts as much as we possibly can. Thank you.

 

[Hydro]

Actually, we do agree on the topic.
TgTT walls make sense. The london one illustrated is indeed poor programming, as it just shouldn't be there. The wall should be the object to hit as it clearly defines the track border. Edit: regardless, you can't have contact with either

Darn PD 'easter eggs'

 

[GTPorsche]

Since I've suddenly found some free time in my schedule, I need to get my replay uploaded, and here it is.