Halal Food

[TenEightyOne]

As far as I know, it HAS to be one cut, otherwise it is not considered halal. One swift cut only...

No, if you check the Halal guidelines for abbatoirs that I linked a few posts ago you'll see. Basically a normal mechanical production line can be used with certain procedural alterations.

The idea (particularly in the British press) that halal production is some kind of occult back-yard carcass processing clan is ridiculous. I'm sure there will be some where standards could improve but that has nothing to do with their halal nature.

 

[Liquid]

I think that it's not how the animal has been killed, it's that this food, deliberately prepared by and for a religious ritual, is being served to the public and sometimes secretly.

It's not the halal process itself, although there are debates about its effectiveness as we've talked about earlier in the thread, it's about the disclosure that you know what you eat has been prepared this way.

Kind of like how Mother Theresa used to baptise the dying without their consent or without consideration for their religious views, it's improper to eat specifically religious food without full disclosure and consent.

And then further on from that, the availability of halal vs. non-halal food is always what the papers rage about.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I think that it's not how the animal has been killed, it's that this food, deliberately prepared by and for a religious ritual, is being served to the public and sometimes secretly.

I don't care if someone said a prayer over my steak or not, or what it was called when it was cavorting free in the sun.

Think of kosher Coca Cola, it's made in the same factory on the same production line as non-kosher Coke. Halal meat can be thought of in the same way, if you read the procedure you'll see that there is nothing that requires anything out of the ordinary in either the farming or the abbatoir. The differences are in the procedure and the position of the kill-knife. That's all.

As I said before, not all meat that makes its way into the food chain is farmed, prepared and processed properly. That applies everywhere though, not just to halal.

 

[LeMansAid]

As far as I know, it HAS to be one cut, otherwise it is not considered halal. One swift cut only...


oh, and aside from the actual slaughter, the way the animals are treated prior to this (regardless of the way of slaughter) I think is a whole different topic. Personally, if I was told that a certain butchers or takeaway had meat from animals that were cooped up in a small room for days before slaughter, I would never shop there again.

Maybe some have the misconception you do. The idea that it HAS to be only one cut would certainly lead to the barbaric "leave an animal half dead" treatment.

Though the points below, quoted from the guidelines posted by @TenEightyOne present a situation where "a" cut is required, and the animal dies either instantly or over whatever amount of time it happens to take.

b- Slaughtering is performed by hand using a sharp knife, the knife should produce a sharp and clean cut on the front side of the animal’s neck cutting through the skin, trachea, esophagus, and major blood vessels.
c- The slaughtering should result in maximum bleed out of the carcass
d- The animal must be completely dead from the act of slaughtering before any further cutting or processing.

So, pick your poison. Is the slaughtering barbaric due to it inefficiently needing an average of 11 cuts? Or because only one cut is allowed?

On your second point: all stages of production are absolutely on topic. In our contemporary real world, the production of halal meat introduces suffering that would otherwise not exist...... On topic.

 

[Blitz24]

Think of kosher Coca Cola, it's made in the same factory on the same production line as non-kosher Coke. Halal meat can be thought of in the same way, if you read the procedure you'll see that there is nothing that requires anything out of the ordinary in either the farming or the abbatoir. The differences are in the procedure and the position of the kill-knife. That's all.

Just noting, there is NO difference between "kosher" Coke and "non-kosher" Coke.

 

[Grayfox]

Actually the only reason they don't do that is the risk of cross contamination (though I know subway are well known for keeping everything split very well). If that was possible (and at some point I hope it really is) it'll be super awesome and everyone will be happy, like you said!

The subway next to my work has the veggies in one area, then the meat and cheese, then the meatballs in the last.

They could do Veggies, Cold meats and cheese, pig products, hot meats.
Each is separated from one another.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just noting, there is NO difference between "kosher" Coke and "non-kosher" Coke.

Just as there is NO difference between Halal chicken and none Halal chicken. It's about altering the production slightly in order to satisfy the religious requirement. Most modern religions are pretty sensible about adapting.

@LeMansAid, I don't see the suffering in that procedure (presuming that one is happy with the normal abbatoir process for all carcasses). The animal is stunned and a non-lethal cut is made. The animal is bled.

Apart from the nature of the initial cut, the religious status of the person who presses the button on the production line (tell me that's not modern!) and the words that are said... where's the difference? Very often it's exactly the same abbatoir. Sometimes all the meat is produced as halal despite being primarily for non-halal markets,

I still agree that it will be possible to find plenty examples of shoddy abbatoirs and examples of inhumane treatment of animals but they won't all be halal by any means.

 

[LeMansAid]

My main point the whole time has been the associated issue of live exports.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

Time for a few thought provoking rhetorical questions.

So, Halal Meat.
What makes this meat 'Halal'?
Is it the way the animal is killed, or is it the presence of a sticker that reads 'Halal'?
If your religion dictated you should eat only food that had been designated Halal, and the meat you had eaten was not genuinely Halal, as expressed in the ancient guidelines of Islam, would it matter?
Is denying access to pig products so as not to offend a group of people's unreasonable sensibilities a rational and fair course of action?
Why should we cater to any religion? If a religion is so intolerant towards us, why should we be tolerant towards them?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Time for a few thought provoking rhetorical questions.

So, Halal Meat.
What makes this meat 'Halal'?
Is it the way the animal is killed, or is it the presence of a sticker that reads 'Halal'?
If your religion dictated you should eat only food that had been designated Halal, and the meat you had eaten was not genuinely Halal, as expressed in the ancient guidelines of Islam, would it matter?
Is denying access to pig products so as not to offend a group of people's unreasonable sensibilities a rational and fair course of action?
Why should we cater to any religion? If a religion is so intolerant towards us, why should we be tolerant towards them?

Look a few posts back, there are the guidelines that enable a modern mechanised abbatoir to create halal meat. I think you'll see the main difference is the saying of a prayer, the pressing-of-the-button (or rather, who does it) and the position of the kill-knife for the first cut. You wouldn't know any difference!

 

[LeMansAid]

I do love that there's bacon in that name.

Among his many other discoveries, Homer Simpson found that food could be deemed "sacrilicious". Maybe there would be a way of differentiating after all.