Health Care for Everyone

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DK
I heard a stat that the average US person drinks 2.3 sodas a day. How much would 1 soda (according to that stat) be in terms of litres?

Hard to say how they are measuring. Soda cans are available in 8 ounce (less than 1/4 liter) or 12 ounce (~1/3 liter) sizes. Bottles can come in 16 ounce (slightly less than 1/2 liter), 20 ounce (.6 liters), and 24 ounce (.7 liters) sizes. A liter is 33.8 ounces. A serving size, as determined by the government, is 8 ounces. So 2.3 sodas likely means 18.4 ounces, which comes out to be slightly larger than a British pint (16.9 ounces). But that seems off to be considering it an epidemic.

This regulation is addressing that at places like McDonalds and movie theaters you can get a 32 ounce, or 1 quart drink. That is slightly smaller than a full liter. I also know of some gas stations that will sell 64 ounce, or half gallon drink.

It should be noted that a serving of a soda has the same amount of calories and sugar as pure orange juice.



I also feel I should add that I am completely unaffected by this kind of regulation. I cut out added sugar in most things nearly five years ago. And since my health restricted diet started two years ago I have been on a fluid restricted diet, only being allowed 68.5 ounces of fluid a day. That includes fluids from things like soup, not just beverages. I try to use 16 ounce bottles at all times, allowing myself a max of 64 ounces (when not eating things like soup) in beverages so that it leaves me room for the water I use to take my medicine. If everything came in 16 ounce sizes it would make my life easier. But my health limits are not an excuse for force on others.


EDIT:. I just realized all our beverage container sizes are based on the 8 ounce serving size. Suddenly the odd measurements make sense.
 
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DK
I heard a stat that the average US person drinks 2.3 sodas a day. How much would 1 soda (according to that stat) be in terms of litres?

Probably 355ml assuming they're cans (12 oz). 16oz which is being proposed as the largest a cinema or restaurant can sell is 473ml.
 
I'm not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but if Bloomberg gets his way and bans large drinks, I'll just buy tow mediums if I feel the urge. And, in general, two mediums are greater than a large to begin with. Actually, this would make a great poll. Do you drink until your thirst is quenched, or can the size of the glass in which it is served hold you back?
 
I find it really hilarious that they're all focusing on soft drinks so much, but not trying to make cigarettes illegal to buy.
 
DK
:eek: That would keep you up for a while...
Plenty of caffeine free options if that concerns you. Of course, there's plenty of sugar-free options too, but that doesn't seem to have caught Bloomberg's notice.

And that kind of angers me about the stats these guys use. Americans drink 2.3 sodas a day? How many are diet? I probably count toward that average even though I drink exclusively diet variations.

Sam48
I'm not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but if Bloomberg gets his way and bans large drinks, I'll just buy tow mediums if I feel the urge.
So instead of paying an extra $0.25-$0.50 you pay an extra $1.49. Also, keep in mind that most mediums are 24 or 20 ounces. Larges are typically 32 ounces. The regulation would limit the size to 16 ounces. So two is equal to a large at this point. You are going to pay double.

ShobThaBob
I find it really hilarious that they're all focusing on soft drinks so much, but not trying to make cigarettes illegal to buy.
Bloomberg just made those pretty much illegal to smoke in the city and taxed them so high that they developed a black market being shipped in from out of state. No smoking in businesses, public buildings, sidewalks, streets, or parks. Basically you can smoke at home and that's it.
 
So instead of paying an extra $0.25-$0.50 you pay an extra $1.49.

If I lived in New York City and if Bloomburg got his way, then yes. As of now, no.

Also, keep in mind that most mediums are 24 or 20 ounces. Larges are typically 32 ounces. The regulation would limit the size to 16 ounces. So two is equal to a large at this point. You are going to pay double.

Ah, I didn't realize they did that as well. However, this of course relates to the question I asked in my previous post about portion size vs one's thirst.
 
Keef
What's worse, soda or sweet tea? Because I love me some sweet tea.
Sugar sweetened sweet tea can vary when homemade. But most pre-packaged kinds are about the same as soda. The only thing you are saving there is the added acid from sodas.

That said, since the wide availability of sweeteners based on sucrolose, stevia, and xylitol I can do sugar free tea without telling the difference. In fact, I take a 32 ounce cup, drop a large Lipton Cold Brew tea bag in it, and fill with water from my Brita filter, then add four or five packs of one of the above sweeteners to make myself tea for the day. Add a squirt of lemon and yummy.

By the way, The Daily Show weighed in on the beverage issue last night.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=Drink Different

And gave a call back at the end of the second segment.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=Moscow Mules

EDIT:. Bloomberg gets called out on announcing a ban on sugary sodas to fight obesity and the giving official support to National Donut Day on national TV. Doesn't see the problem.



Notice he nearly said the "we're forcing you to understand" line and stopped? That was actually a prepared speaking point! He probably got called out on it enough yesterday to change it. I can't believe he doesn't see it. And he compared it to cigarettes, only saying that cigarettes are actually better because we don't know if smoking one will cause cancer but we do know too much soda will cause problems.

Has the man gone to food shops in New York? Has he seen what passes for food on the streets? I knew guys from New York who worked with me and any time they went home they came back with boxes of crap like cannolis.
 
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I haven't read the whole thread but I'd like to contribute my experience of public healthcare today.

I've been having a weird feeling in my throat for a week now (hard to swallow, even touching it makes me feel like I'm being stragled) and finally decided to have it checked out. I woke up at 8 am to call the local health centre and 30 minutes later a nurse called me back (they have a callback system). After discussing the thing with her she booked a time for my personal doctor in 3 hours time. I walked down the street, waited in the reception for less than 5 minutes, went in, got prescribed some pills and a referral to get my blood drawn tomorrow. All this cost me nothing, and the goverment even supports me on the cost of the pills (I paid 7,50€ for them myself).

I know for Americans it's natural to oppose higher taxation since as far as I understand your way of life has always been about making your own luck and minimal interference from the goverment. We have mighty high taxes over here, but at least I'm glad the system has served me well all my life. It's still possible to have a insurance here which guarantees you private health care, and you can still go to a private clinic and pay for it yourself in case the queues for public health care are too long.

I can understand why people oppose public health care (cost too high, not working well enough, increase in taxes etc.) but I've never been able to measure the value of health with money. I'm glad if I come across someone who is hurt, I can always call an ambulance for them without having to worry about the costs and/or if he/she has insurance or not.
 
OK8
I've been having a weird feeling in my throat for a week now (hard to swallow, even touching it makes me feel like I'm being stragled) and finally decided to have it checked out. I woke up at 8 am to call the local health centre and 30 minutes later a nurse called me back (they have a callback system). After discussing the thing with her she booked a time for my personal doctor in 3 hours time. I walked down the street, waited in the reception for less than 5 minutes, went in, got prescribed some pills and a referral to get my blood drawn tomorrow. All this cost me nothing, and the goverment even supports me on the cost of the pills (I paid 7,50€ for them myself).

I know for Americans it's natural to oppose higher taxation since as far as I understand your way of life has always been about making your own luck and minimal interference from the goverment. We have mighty high taxes over here, but at least I'm glad the system has served me well all my life. It's still possible to have a insurance here which guarantees you private health care, and you can still go to a private clinic and pay for it yourself in case the queues for public health care are too long.

I can understand why people oppose public health care (cost too high, not working well enough, increase in taxes etc.) but I've never been able to measure the value of health with money. I'm glad if I come across someone who is hurt, I can always call an ambulance for them without having to worry about the costs and/or if he/she has insurance or not.
The only difference between your experience and mine is that I call the doctor of my choice, no matter the location, I would have had my bloodwork done on the same day because if the doctor doesn't have a lab in the office I can go have it done at any hospital or there are about three companies operating private labs, I would have a $20 co-pay at my doctor's office, and depending on the drug (I'm assuming an antibiotic) I would pay either $4 or $10 at the pharmacy of my choice (I've changed pharmacies twice in the last six months).

Oh, and you pay for your healthcare plan from your taxes with no choices. I pay for mine from my pocket, but get to choose which is the best for me. Through my work's group plan I have four options or I can pay more to have a plan not carried through work for whatever I choose.

And we can call an ambulance without worrying about cost or coverage as well. We do not leave people dying in the street or untreated due to financial reasons. In fact, in my state alone millions of dollars worth of care and drugs are voluntarily donated to the underserved or poor every year by doctors and pharmaceutical companies.
 

Yeah the bloodwork was just a technical thing since you have to draw the blood early in the morning, I could've done it there and then otherwise.

Given that I use health services so rarely I think it could be cheaper for me too if I just paid it out of my pocket and saved on the taxes, but it's hard to estimate, since tomorrow I might find out I have cancer and then it would get quite expensive really quick.

It's hard for me to compare the tax situation since I've never lived and worked in an another country but I don't feel like I'm strangled by the taxes. Maybe if I had my own company or made a lot of money otherwise, I might be more annoyed by it but with the jobs I've worked so far I get along fine. I'm much more worried about taxation on cars and fuel over here but that's another story.
 
I will say that our system has a number of issues, particularly for people with certain conditions that require prohibitively expensive treatments. But a large number o the issues can't be worked out due to our current regulatory structure. The hands of insurers are tied and doctors face challenges that prevent them from being able to offer more help.

The US needs reform, but it doesn't have to come in the form of a state-run system or by mandating that everyone buy into a plan with strict limitations. In a country with over $300 million people and a land mass that covers nearly all climatic conditions, has different natural resources scattered around, and has every form of geography to be found on Earth there is no one size fits all answer. It is the reasoning behind the concept of United States, that each reason will have their own unique wants and needs and no one is better fit to determine those than the individual states themselves.
 
I think there could be a happy medium. I think that happy medium could be an insurance company that was a non profit. Forgive me if something like that already exists, but when it comes to healthcare, I don't see a reason for there to be a middleman company with many millions (fake edit - billions) of dollars in profit.

What do health insurance companies provide that couldn't also be provided by a non-profit organization at extremely cheaper prices? I'm likening this to using a credit union. They provide nearly all the same services as a bank, (home, car, and personal loans and accounts) the employees get paid very similar amounts, and they're federally insured for the same amount. There just aren't any investors, so the services they provide can be done at much better rates. The maths are simples.
 
By the way, The Daily Show weighed in on the beverage issue last night.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=Drink Different

And gave a call back at the end of the second segment.
http://m.comedycentral.com/tds_video.rbml?id=Moscow Mules

EDIT:. Bloomberg gets called out on announcing a ban on sugary sodas to fight obesity and the giving official support to National Donut Day on national TV. Doesn't see the problem.



Notice he nearly said the "we're forcing you to understand" line and stopped? That was actually a prepared speaking point! He probably got called out on it enough yesterday to change it. I can't believe he doesn't see it. And he compared it to cigarettes, only saying that cigarettes are actually better because we don't know if smoking one will cause cancer but we do know too much soda will cause problems.

Has the man gone to food shops in New York? Has he seen what passes for food on the streets? I knew guys from New York who worked with me and any time they went home they came back with boxes of crap like cannolis.

The issue with Bloomberg is he is the opposite of Sheriff Joe Arpio but just as stubborn when the facts or general consensus is given to him. In other words he thinks he's always right. His line about how the founding fathers didn't fight for our freedom to have soda, is just asinine. People aren't saying something that black and white and for him to use that tag line on national television is an insult.
 
ShobThaBob
I think there could be a happy medium. I think that happy medium could be an insurance company that was a non profit. Forgive me if something like that already exists, but when it comes to healthcare, I don't see a reason for there to be a middleman company with many millions (fake edit - billions) of dollars in profit.
Keep in mind that non-profit in the US still means private, and not government run. And while I don't know of any non-profit insurance companies there are charities that help families pay for medical expenses and there are non-profit hospital systems. If you ever saw the movie Patch Adams that is based on a real person who founded a hospital that still operates today. The hospital where my first two surgeries were performed was non-profit, Kosair Children's Hospital, and the Kosair and Children's Miracle Network charities fund any procedures needed by families who can't afford them, even bringing them in from out of town and housing the family in the Ronald McDonald House. Spend a couple of summers in a children's cardiac ward and you get to know the families from out of town, with nowhere else to go, pretty well. We used that hospital because that is where the best doctors in the region were located. If I had to use the nearest hospital to us it would have been much smaller and my first surgeon wouldn't be the same guy that pioneered neonatal heart surgery and is now the head of the pediatric heart transplant center at the Cleveland Clinic. And after he performed my surgery he said that he had no clue how bad it would be. It was the worst he had seen to that point. If my parents couldn't have chosen to use the best in the field I probably wouldn't be alive today.

Now, the closest thing to what you describe is probably our Medicare and Medicaid programs, which are government run programs that help elderly and those who can't afford coverage. The problem is that they are full of issues, loopholes, waste, and all the other things government is known for. Most notably, they are so convoluted that most people have no clue what they need, what they qualify for, or what their coverage is.

What do health insurance companies provide that couldn't also be provided by a non-profit organization at extremely cheaper prices?
What do they or what should they? See, regulations have forced them to do so much they no longer act like insurance. If you look at car insurance, it covers you for some big, like a car crash. Health insurance that worked the same way would cover things like emergencies, surgeries, and chronic treatments but the patient would cover check ups, testing, and so forth, much like you pay for tires, oil, etc. But regulations don't let health insurance offer that kind of coverage, so it must charge enough to cover every single physical and vaccination. Imagine how much car insurance would be if they also had to pay for oil and tires.

I'm likening this to using a credit union. They provide nearly all the same services as a bank, (home, car, and personal loans and accounts) the employees get paid very similar amounts, and they're federally insured for the same amount. There just aren't any investors, so the services they provide can be done at much better rates. The maths are simples.
But credit unions aren't required to cover even your pocket change and every financial interaction you have, no matter how small. Insurance is. You see, government interference already forces insurance to do so much that it is prohibitively expensive for a non-profit to get involved. And this is what government dies best, regulate until it is impossible for something better to come along. A news reporter here did a story where he wanted to open a lemonade stand in New York City. All the licensing and fees meant it would cost him nearly $10,000 before he could squeeze his first lemon. Now, imagine what they have done to something like insurance. You probably need billions up front.

What you think is a good idea probably would work if government stepped back. But it is impossible due to the laws that exist now.
 
So, the basic gist of what you're saying is that the reason it couldn't work (or would be hard to do) is the extreme cost of startup. Once up and running, it 'should' work exactly like any other insurance provider minus the billions of dollars of profit going into the hands of investors. I think it's a very American response to an American problem. It leaves intact all the other avenues of profit that are spread throughout our medical system. There's no reason to liken it to car insurance, liken it towards current health insurance. It would provide all the same services as any other health insurance company, minus the part where there's incentive to charge more and provide less coverage. For people who are covered it would be loads cheaper. I don't see any legal reason why it wouldn't be possible, just financial.
 
ShobThaBob
So, the basic gist of what you're saying is that the reason it couldn't work (or would be hard to do) is the extreme cost of startup. Once up and running, it 'should' work exactly like any other insurance provider minus the billions of dollars of profit going into the hands of investors.
No. Not just startup, but operational costs. The day to day would cost too much without funding coming in. They would still have to charge for their services and even then they cannot maximize their functionality due to the regulations in place. As a private organization they would have to offer the exact same as the for profits while working with less funding. If they could offer the same as Medicare & Medicaid they could work with less, but the law doesn't allow it.

Because of my job I know that annual operating expenses for one charitable organization are over $2 million dollars, and it only covers approximately 30 of our 120 counties, and does not cover our largest population centers. Now, that is just for providing primary care medical services and drugs. So, if you take those numbers and factor in that a non-profit insurance company would have to pay the same costs plus profit to the doctors and facilities and covering far more than just primary care services and drugs, but also cover surgeries, follow up testings, and all the other very expensive things and then add on that they still have employees that need to be paid and you are looking at tons more money.

No, we need to find ways to allow insurance companies to operate cheaper, offer enough variety of options to work for anyone, and also find ways to not have the patients completely separated from the cost so that the medical industry has to actually work under the rules of a free market, which encourages offering more for less cost on all sides.

Then you can look at the most efficient way to setup a non-profit.
 
At first, yes, there would be less funding, but why would it be impossible to assume that the profit per person ratio wouldn't be the same after some time? And what regulations are there which would prevent them from offering the same services as any other insurance company?
 
ShobThaBob
At first, yes, there would be less funding, but why would it be impossible to assume that the profit per person ratio wouldn't be the same after some time? And what regulations are there which would prevent them from offering the same services as any other insurance company?

What is the point of it being non-profit if it still has to charge individuals premiums that are barely lower than the for profits? They can offer the same services but they still must break even. The costs of medical care are expensive and a non-profit can do nothing to minimize their expenses. And all of this assumes a non-profit would completely replace the for profits. Unless we outlaw for profits, which we cannot, a non-profit would need to offer something far better than the for profits. But the regulations wouldn't allow it. The for profits have already minimized their own expenses as much as possible.

We have tons of charitable agencies that work with doctors to offer free care to people. If it was cheaper and more effective to act as an insurance company don't you think they would? It costs them millions to offer minimal volunteer care and medicine, which means the service they offer has no up front expense to them. That is purely operational costs. An insurance would have similar, or more, operational costs and then have to pay for medical care for coverage of all forms of care.
 
I wish I had some numbers to work with to see how much savings it would actually be, because I don't have an answer to that. Nobody can deny that there are a lot of issues with the current system we have. Every cog in the wheel has something to complain about, and this seems like a solution that fixes a fair amount of the money bleed, doesn't delete jobs, and doesn't involve the government. A smaller overall cost would also lead to more small business being able to offer insurance through the company.
 
The biggest problem with your idea is that it doesn't address the actual problem, which is the cost of medical care. Most people don't know what their medical care costs, so they don't care where they go or what doctor they use so long as they get healthy. All that does is encourage costs to increase. Your idea just perpetuates this system.

I also think that we need to be sure we are clear on what you mean by non-profit, as that is not the same as charitable. A non-profit doesn't offer things for free, just at cost. So it still must charge enough to cover the costs of the medical care itself. If medical care is expensive then a non-profit insurance company will be too. The only way to avoid that would be government subsidies, but then you are right back to an Obamacare without a mandate.
 
Yes, that is what I am saying. I do know what a non profit is. This year, Metlife posted a 1.5billion profit for the first quarter. Medical care is expensive, and one of the reasons it's expensive is because you have a cog in the wheel that does nothing except pool money together and distribute it to people who need it. Looking at a giant problem like the cost of medical care is daunting, and addressing one issue at a time can lead to bigger changes over time. Americans also very badly want a free market medical care system. I personally don't think it's the best, but this A - saves billions and billions of dollars, and B - works within the confines of what Americans want and currently have. That's not a bad thing.

The biggest problem with my solution is that it doesn't save enough money? Metlife is one company, and 1.5b is a lot of cash.
 
Indeed. Health insurance is big business. In the US, it's a multi-billion dollar service. Small changes can go a long way towards making healthcare more accessible to everyone, and I don't see why it's seen as such a bad idea. It realistically will probably never happen because of the huge amount of upfront costs, but that it still won't be good because it won't be THAT much cheaper than normal insurance? It won't be night and day, but without an earnings breakdown showing profit from those companies it's really hard to say just how much would be saved. 100 dollars per person per year might not sound like a lot, but considering that could be done without involvement from the government or any radical changes I think it's a good thing. A few hundred dollars per person could mean the difference between getting coverage through your employer or not.
 
ShobThaBob
Yes, that is what I am saying. I do know what a non profit is. This year, Metlife posted a 1.5billion profit for the first quarter. Medical care is expensive, and one of the reasons it's expensive is because you have a cog in the wheel that does nothing except pool money together and distribute it to people who need it. Looking at a giant problem like the cost of medical care is daunting, and addressing one issue at a time can lead to bigger changes over time. Americans also very badly want a free market medical care system. I personally don't think it's the best, but this A - saves billions and billions of dollars, and B - works within the confines of what Americans want and currently have. That's not a bad thing.
First of all, MetLife doesn't offer health insurance, unless you count dental. Their primary product is life insurance. Humana is the fourth largest medical insurer in the US with 4.56% market share. Let's look at them for 2011, just because they are my insurer. http://www.gurufocus.com/StockLink.php?type=sec&symbol=HUM&date=2012-02-24&report=10-K
Humana had revenue of: $36.823 billion
Humana had expenses of: $34.488 billion
Humana had pre-tax income of: $2.235 billion
Humana had a net income of: $1.419 billion

Their benefit ratio was 82.1% or $28.823 billion
Their operating cost ratio was 14.8% or $5.395 billion

So, of Humana's figures, only about 6% is kept by them and the government. If they were non-profit you would save everyone $2.235 billion. We would all still have to pay in $28.823 billion to cover medical expenses, $34.488 billion if the staff isn't volunteer and the land, equipment, and utilities aren't donated. Considering Humana uses one of the few skyscrapers in Louisville I'm going to assume you can't find that many FTEs or property for free. And that $34.4 billion is only 4.5% of the total expense in the health care industry.

So your plan is to have a non-profit with operating expenses of at least $28.8 billion dollars, closer to $576 billion if it is to cover everyone. And it will ultimately save US citizens 6% in premiums. This is all assuming all insurers have similar profit ratios. This does not save on co-pays, deductibles, and elective and questionable procedures that aren't covered by insurance.

The biggest problem with my solution is that it doesn't save enough money? Metlife is one company, and 1.5b is a lot of cash.
Even if they did health care, it is small change in comparison to the actual costs of health care itself. You are trying to save single digit percentages from an industry that makes it possible to have thousands, even millions, of dollars in treatments for things like cancer and heart attacks for an average of between $1,000 and $1,500 a year per person. If they want to take 4% off the top for themselves then OK.

Now, I am not saying your plan doesn't save some money, although it is relatively very little, but you are going after the wrong pool of money. While you are chasing $1.5 billion (or $2.2 billion), I am looking at the bigger picture. I see three numbers: $28.8 billion in medical, $5.3 billion in operating expenses, and $2.2 billion in profit. I am saying we can save much more by finding a way to cut down on that $28.8 billion and on that $5.3 billion.

Ultimately, if we can find a way to get people more directly involved in the cost of their medical care and have insurance be primarily for calamity situations, like every other form of insurance out there, you have doctors having to worry about cost driving patients away when it comes to primary care and check ups and getting into price competition, lowering the $28.8 billion. Then if insurance is for calamity coverage you reduce the $7.5 billion (5.3 expenses + 2.2 profit) that insurance adds on to the cost. They will have less operating expenses and less total profit, but they may be able to actually have a better profit ratio if they do it right. Never mind that they just might be able to negotiate better costs if they can just focus on the big stuff, lowering all the numbers even more.

Now, do you see what I'm saying? Find a way to lower all costs. Your plan goes after one thing while making the only thing making medical care affordable to most of the US sound like the bad guys.

If you want to find someone to take away from, talk to the guys taking $816 million while doing nothing in the whole process other than setting rules that just keep making it more expensive.
 
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Thank you for clarifying, and I don't disagree with anything about what you said. Did you find anything regarding how many people are covered by them?

I don't disagree at all that a major overhaul is needed, but everyone will want to fights along the way about who is in charge of it, what it covers, and where the free market is going. I personally don't think that such a free market should exist when it comes to health care, and the rest of world seems to agree. The US is far and away the oddball out in that situation. However, giving Americans a non-profit option to health care is certainly better than throwing away billions, right? I haven't said at all that this is the trump card that fixes everything, but it does fix SOMETHING without stepping on any of the virtues that Americans hold dear to their heart (taxes, less government, and choice.)
 
That's part of what this would help with. It would give the buyers another option that would provide the same services, but for less money.
 
ShobThaBob
Thank you for clarifying, and I don't disagree with anything about what you said. Did you find anything regarding how many people are covered by them?
30 million. It is how I cam up with the very rough estimate of $1,000 a year per person figure.

I don't disagree at all that a major overhaul is needed, but everyone will want to fights along the way about who is in charge of it, what it covers, and where the free market is going.
It's called competition. The best or most desirable come out on top. It is the motivating factor of a free market.

I personally don't think that such a free market should exist when it comes to health care, and the rest of world seems to agree.
Why? As someone with devices inside my body developed as a way for a company to gain market share over other companies by offering a better alternative to an already existing treatment, and preparing to have a new device implanted that will take business away from surgeons, I am in full support of free market health care.

The US is far and away the oddball out in that situation.
That would sound like something to think on, if it weren't how we've been doing nearly everything for 236 years.

However, giving Americans a non-profit option to health care is certainly better than throwing away billions, right? I haven't said at all that this is the trump card that fixes everything, but it does fix SOMETHING without stepping on any of the virtues that Americans hold dear to their heart (taxes, less government, and choice.)
But you didn't say non-profit health care, you said non-profit insurance. We have non-profits that provide health care. Heck, we have for profit doctors that donate medical care and provide free or reduced cost services for those that can't afford it. I have never seen a medical bill that didn't have a number to call for assistance if you can't afford it.

ShobThaBob
That's part of what this would help with. It would give the buyers another option that would provide the same services, but for less money.
It's like taking aspirin for pneumonia. You'll feel better and some symptoms will fade, but the disease still exists.
 
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