HELP....RUF yellow bird handling

[Scaff]

There are preference differences too. I liked driving the BTR with a DualShock2 and I managed to drive it pretty well. If only someone could answer my question found in post #19...

I did a 7.10.xxx on the Ring in my 394 bhp BTR today. R2 tires. Could someone tell me this thing: If a car has a lot of lift-throttle oversteer, I have to accelerate out of oversteering. But what will I do when it begins slipping on full throttle?

I have a copy of the Porsche Driving Book at home (published 1988) and it describes just this kind of situation.

Quick lift of the throttle puts the back out and if you don't catch it straight away then the back will push very wide, full throttle will just spin the rears and with the weight over the rear the fronts start pushing wide.

The Porsche drivers in the book are quite quick to point out that in a situation like this with a RR layout car the situation will be difficult to recover from, they then go on to say that the situation is one of driver error, as a car with substantial rear weight bias is going to do this with a rapid lift of the throttle.

Their answer? Don't get in the situation in the first place, lower the level of lift off (i.e. reduce throttle instead of a full lift) to trim the understeer and get the back rotating, but do not lift fully as the weight will pitch the rear out.

It may not be the answer you are looking for, but this is the Porsche advice on the situation, basically don't do it in the real world unless you like going backwards into the armco.

Regards

Scaff


BTW before anone mentions that this is about RUF's and not Porsche models, the fundimental basics are the same as we are discussing RR layout cars and as far as I know you can't get an RUF Driving book (and even if you can, I don't have one......yet ).

 

[Greycap]

Thanks Scaff, but I never reduced throttle, it just began sliding on full throttle. Maybe I was just going too fast...

Don't worry about me doing it in real life, I only ride a bike

 

[Scaff]

Thanks Scaff, but I never reduced throttle, it just began sliding on full throttle. Maybe I was just going too fast...

Don't worry about me doing it in real life, I only ride a bike

If it occured when you were on full throttle, then you were indeed going too fast, simple issue of the tyres just running out of grip when you asked them to do too much. Step over the mark by too big a margin (and this might just be 5 or 6 mph) and not a lot will bring it back.

And don't try it one your bike, gravel rash hurts too much.

Regards

Scaff

 

[xLuciferx]

Yay, finaly gettin my memory card back 2day!!! after all these weeks, ive missd it so much
Il post my settins l8a on so u can give it a try.
Peace

 

[viperpilot]

i've driven about 5rounds with the BTR (stock) on the ring and i have to say it handles great!! but the more power you add the worse is getting the handling. but nearly stock it's a dream to drive with the sliding rear!

 

[ekmatt9]

by any chance, are you Polish?
And about the RUF now, what you could do take TCS and put it to 3...understeer 0, and over steer 3...it works on mine

 

[Leonidae]

bah.. ditch the rufs and go for beetle '49! there you got superb handling no matter what tyres you have and what settings, tuning or how much throttle you have! and looks cool with chrome rims and sounds like racecar.. *lol* with meager 80 bhp +

 

[Greycap]

But if you want even sportier looks, go for the Karmann-Ghia!

 

[Leonidae]

true.. it has more power too if i recall right.. but the handling starts to resemble RUF's..

 

[Greycap]

true.. it has more power too if i recall right.. but the handling starts to resemble RUF's..

Yep, but that makes it a good training car before switching to the monster models. I practiced with a BTR though... and it IS hairy business when it begins sliding in the flat-out section between Flugplatz and Aremberg...

 

[Leonidae]

i think I'll rather do the ring in Mazda AZ-1 than any RR's.. the hell, I'll rather do it in that 3-wheel midget!

 

[panjandrum]

But if you want even sportier looks, go for the Karmann-Ghia!

Just a quick note to say that the 68' Ghia handles *nothing* like a '68 Ghia (or a '68 bug for that matter). I don't think PD drove the real vehicle in this case because it is so wildly far off.

 

[panjandrum]

Just had a very satisfying few Family Cups around the ring in the Yellowbird. For kicks I put much softer tires on it than I usually use (Racing Mediums) and tried to get far enough ahead that I could afford a pit-stop and still win the race. Worked great, but made the race too easy even at maximum difficulty (only a 7 point race with Stage 4 turbo).

Oh my god this thing is fast with that stage 4!

 

[Flerbizky]

That's a shame you sold it, if you ever get it again try it totally stock without driving aids. As has been mentioned this is one of the few cars in the game that really doesn't need any tweaking or additional power.

All I've done to mine is a oil change and N1 tyres and for me that is perfect. It does requrie a great deal of concentration to keep under control and there are few places where you can apply full throttle without fear of running wide or, worse, turning it around. I find when I accelerate out of corners I use only 80% throttle at most.

With N1 tyres you really appreciate the power it has - give it a squirt in second and it will light up the back without hesitation. To me this is what a super car should do, just watch the real Yellowbird Nurburgring video and you will see the driver spinning the tyres at will.

Around the ring I can do clean 8.25s at roughly 95% commitment, if I can get a clean lap at 100% I hope to be able to drop about 10s - my goal is 8.15 on N1s.

The BTR is a slightly less savage beast but has the same charcteristics and is good for learning on the smaller tracks.

HOLY BATMAN.... This is THE best advice I've read so far at GTP !.... AWESOME !..

I was just about to give up on the Yellowbird. The thing is still all over the place for me I guess - But it'll get better.. After reading the above, I went shopping for a BTR, Lightweight stage 1 & 2 + Cage, N2s (I'm still starting this, I suck, get off my back already ), Fully Cust. Suspension and nothing more (I actually DID install a wing on it - I usually don't, but it makes it look like an old version of the GT3RS 👍 ).. Took it to La Sarthe just to get a feel for it. And I'll be damned - it felt RIGHT in the way I'd wanted GT4 to feel right. Difficult, scary and fecking rewarding at the same time - catching a long slide in this arse heavy monster equipped with N2s makes you feel godlike!... Awesome...

Next up is the Ring !...

Ohh.. To keep this on topic - during my testing session, I increased the camber to 2.3 front and 1.5 rear and lowered it to 92 front and 94 rear and upped the downforce to 10 front and 12 rear as I found the rear horribly unstable down Mulsanne - The above DID help, especially through the kink !...

 

[panjandrum]

Yep, but that makes it a good training car before switching to the monster models. I practiced with a BTR though... and it IS hairy business when it begins sliding in the flat-out section between Flugplatz and Aremberg...

The BTR is indeed a great car also. Since you can add a wing (in about the fugliest way I've seen, UGH!), you can greatly improve "high-speed" grip. One thing I've found with wings in GT4 is they seem to improve handling at nearly any speed. I use a downforce of 20/30 on the BTR and then I can just rip around tracks.

 

[xLuciferx]

YAY, ive finaly got round to gettin u my settings 👍
This is for a fully tuned,apart from rollcage, Yellowbird with traction n anti spin off

F R
Spring Rate 12.8 13.8
Ride Height 80 80
Damper Bounce 7 7
" Rebound 8 8
Camber 2.0 1.0
Toe -1 1
Stabiliser 5 5

LSD
Initial 5
LSD Accel 48
LSD Deccel 18

O yeah, this is done for qualifyin tyres,i havnt got round 2 tryin it with any other tyres yet soz. Ne feedback wud be gr8ful 👍

 

[Powerslide]

I have learnt soo much from this car.

Initially played with DS2, and the car was uncontrollable. Since getting the DFP I went back to it, and since playing the Nurburgring autistically for a few hours (stock config with no driving aids and N3 tyres) I love it!

This is the perfect car for learning the wheel. My whole DS2 play style of slamming on Brakes/ Accelerator all at once has completely gone and am now modulating my throttle and brakes properly.

Not only is the car an absolute blast to drive once you get the drifting down-pat, it also teaches better driving habits for the game as a whole. For anyone who is trying to break their old DS2 play habits, get this car and drive it round the ring on road tyres with no driving aids. It will frustrate the hell out of you for a while, but once you get it, the whole game will change!

Love it

 

[Powerslide]

Almost forgot... My 'ring time on the above config is 8,23.xx (not great I know, but hey)

 

[Rac3rX]

RUF CRT "Yellow Bird

Ive Done and have a Replay Doing a 7:19:XXX @ the 'Ring with her, with a Abosolutly CLEAN Lap.

_________(Race)
SR_______12.4/11.8
RH_______89/92
SB________3/4
SRB_______5/8
CA______2.0/1.0
TA________0/2
ST________6/3

LSD
IT__________9
Acel________32
Decel_______29

1st___________2.828
2nd___________1.709
3rd___________1.217
4th___________0.918
5th___________0.724
6th___________0.585
Final__________3.668
Auto___________16

Breaks______6/8

ASM over______0
ASM under_____0
TCS___________7

Ballast
W____________26
F/R___________-17

Roll Cage______Y

NoS_______User-pref

Settings by Rac3rX

[Note]
Completly NEW set up as of Sept 13 2005.
This cars is FUN as hell to Drive!

Parts
I install everything, if there is a Supercharger or a Turbo as an option I use the one with more hp, UNLESS stated otherwise.

Downforce
The downforce should be adjusted according to the track, For Races where there is tire wear, reducing the Downforce will add life to the tires. Some prefer not to add a wing to some cars, that is user pref, unless the game doesnt allow a wing to be added.

Tires
I Tune with Race tires, For races with tire wear try to use harder tires on the wheels applying power they will lose tread faster, try to ballance the tire wear for the front & rear with diferent softnesses of Tire.

Oil Changes & HP Loss
get oil changes as often as possible, as the cars engine will loose hp with deminished oil quality, a oil change gets the HP back up, but with mileage the car will eventually drop a little Hp.

Camber Angle
Increases to the Camber can be made to improve handling in banked turns, & in other various places along the track, it should be adjusted to the specific track needs.

ASM
I leave the ASM “Over-steer”, & “Under-steer” at 0, but theses are adjustable to your own preference, and to what YOU are comfortable with.

TCS
I Tune with Race tires so if you race the car with street tires, or Hard Racing tires, you might need to bump up the TCS if you are loosing a lot of traction. (mostly for the High Hp cars)

IMPORTANT

Gear Tuning
When setting the gears, you must always go in the following order; Auto, Then the Final, then individual gear settings if posted. Doing otherwise will result in odd gear reactions or unreachable variables. IF ever you do get odly working gears & or gears unobtainable variables and you confirmed you followed these steps, PLEASE PM me, DO NOT post it in this thread.

Your Thoughts
Please post your thoughts and opinions on the settings you try, if you like them or hate them, we need to know, and your comments will help people get a general idea of the settings.


Rac3rX

 

[Brock5000]

Haven't done much lately and with my ps2 needing a reset after every drive playing with settings is a pain.

I've managed to lap the ring in 8:26.5xx stock with N1 tyres, which still had much room for improvement, however as an experiment I fitted the Yellow Bird with a roll cage. Wow, did this sure make for an intense experience!

Using the DS2 I found it incredibly twitchy with the roll cage, it took a huge amount of concentration just to stay on track, let alone slide into the high speed bends, and by the end of three laps my thumbs were worked to the bone! The second lap was the cleanest and, although I still had a few minor offs, I managed to post a lap time of 8:20.xxx - I was quite surprised to say the least! I suspect a flat 8:00 may be possible, but this would require a perfect performance which would be very draining to maintain. The difference is most noticable when turning in, where the roll cage helps to maintain the correct line with less understeer (assuming you have the car balanced coming into it).

So in summary, the roll cage does make the Bird faster, but also makes it tougher to control. I'd be keen to hear what DFP users make of this, as the smoother steering it delivers should make it a lot easier to turn in without having to 'jink' the steering as tends to be the case with the joypad.

 

[Rac3rX]

Ive Done and have a Replay Doing a 7:19:XXX @ the 'Ring with her, with a Abosolutly CLEAN Lap.

Here it is

Click Here for Ruf CRT Lapping the Ring Video

Using the Posted Set up, Its Good For All Turbos.

 

[panjandrum]

I finally put together a few GT4 videos you can find here:

http://www.macmaven.net/gt4movies.html

The RR Montage has some fun Yellowbird footage, and there is also a full lap on The Ring featuring the Yellowbird.

 

[christofire]

To add something that's not been mentioned much, I've found the 1.5 way LSD helped enormously in races.

I'm using the Yellowbird in the Supercar series (Pro Hall). With a stage 2 turbo (smallest power upgrade to get it in the series - 530bhp) it was tough, but just possible to win Seoul. Next up was New York, but I couldn't get the power down onto the long straights, or brake hard at the other end. Add one LSD and it's much better behaved on and off the power.

No other changes, apart from all aids to 0.

 

[Brock5000]

I must admit that I've not tried changing the lsd on the yellowbird, I will have to give it a go on a stock one and see how it affects my times on the 'ring.

One other thing that struck me about the bird (and indeed all RRs) is that I've often heard porsches being described as a car that you have to 'steer with the back wheels'. In other words, you have to position the car in the entry to a corner, so that you can drive it out using its power and inertia to control the arc, rather than steering it out with the front wheels.
This of course leaves little margin for error and if you get the line wrong on entry, it is very hard to correct without loosing a lot of speed and thus momentum. The common mistake is to back off and try to straighten the car up, but as we all know, this usually invokes snap oversteering and a spin.

 

[TeamQuick]

I must admit that I've not tried changing the lsd on the yellowbird, I will have to give it a go on a stock one and see how it affects my times on the 'ring.

One other thing that struck me about the bird (and indeed all RRs) is that I've often heard porsches being described as a car that you have to 'steer with the back wheels'. In other words, you have to position the car in the entry to a corner, so that you can drive it out using its power and inertia to control the arc, rather than steering it out with the front wheels.
This of course leaves little margin for error and if you get the line wrong on entry, it is very hard to correct without loosing a lot of speed and thus momentum. The common mistake is to back off and try to straighten the car up, but as we all know, this usually invokes snap oversteering and a spin.

Your very right!

Think of Porches like driving hammers (The Metal top is much heavier then the handle, think of it as the rear and the handle as the front), If you go in fast and brake hard, its like throwing a hammer side ways (Like a boomerang) The heavy rear end wanting to swing arround the corner (Massive oversteer)

The Trick is not to overdue your entry speed (No DF, meens longer braking distances required) and to throttle through the corner with ballanced throttle imputs, slamming the gas will toss the tail out, and your throwing the hammer again.

 

[Mr. Boy]

My only problem with this car is that it won't hit 211 mph. (The real Yellowbird did this.) Can't I hit that speed stock?

 

[TurboJ]

My only problem with this car is that it won't hit 211 mph. (The real Yellowbird did this.) Can't I hit that speed stock?

Nah, they've screwed up the gearing on the 'bird...

 

[TurboJ]

RUF CRT "Yellow Bird

Your Thoughts
Please post your thoughts and opinions on the settings you try, if you like them or hate them, we need to know, and your comments will help people get a general idea of the settings.


Rac3rX

Great setup! I tried this with my fully tuned CTR, and after just a couple of tries I got a time of 6.40.875 on the ring. Nice balance for the car, only trouble is keeping the front end stick to the tarmac at high speed....
If the front end "float" could get dialled out, I believe I could go below 6.30

Thanks for the setup man!

 

[Flerbizky]

Nah, they've screwed up the gearing on the 'bird...

How "off" is it topspeed wise ?..

I'm seriously pissed that I need to add a gear just to get an adjustable box...

 

[TurboJ]

How "off" is it topspeed wise ?..

I'm seriously pissed that I need to add a gear just to get an adjustable box...

Same here!
About the difference; the 'Bird in GT4 does 322 kph (201 mph) instead of 342 kph (211 mph) that it does in real life.