helpless old ladies = terrorist?

[A2K78]

the TSA think so:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/99798.html

on a related/unrelated, their complicity is quite amazing:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/99523.html

 

[Eric Demory]

I never liked old women.

 

[Schwartz]

I understand that the old ladies could compare the TSA agents to Nazis because of her rage about the incident, but did the author have to call them Nazis? Nope. I don't think TSA workers deserve to be called such a harsh name by someone who wasn't effected by the incident. Although they could and definitely should have shown more sympathy when she started bleeding, the agents were just doing their job as instructed to. The TSA agents are always labeled so harshly and are called a**holes nazis, etc, but it is one of the hardest jobs to do, and they don't want to be "Nazis," they have to if they want to keep their job. And the truth is, without them attacks like 9/11 would be much more common.

 

[Azuremen]

I understand that the old ladies could compare the TSA agents to Nazis because of her rage about the incident, but did the author have to call them Nazis? Nope. I don't think TSA workers deserve to be called such a harsh name by someone who wasn't effected by the incident. Although they could and definitely should have shown more sympathy when she started bleeding, the agents were just doing their job as instructed to. The TSA agents are always labeled so harshly and are called a**holes nazis, etc, but it is one of the hardest jobs to do, and they don't want to be "Nazis," they have to if they want to keep their job. And the truth is, without them attacks like 9/11 would be much more common.

You realize the average TSA person has a high school diploma? They aren't trained very heavily and they are given quite a bit of power. On top of that, I've heard that some felons are even in the TSA (I'll have to double check this)

And the TSA doesn't prevent a damn thing. Just go research the amount of crap people have gotten through check points with random excuses, etc. Having the TSA created was far more of a win for the Terrorists after 9/11 than most anything else we did.

Also, have you flown recently? Or ever?

 

[Schwartz]

You realize the average TSA person has a high school diploma?

Nice random fact. What does their past schooling have to do with any of the issues in this thread?

On top of that, I've heard that some felons are even in the TSA (I'll have to double check this)

You have no evidence that this is true (so yea, double check this). Again, this has nothing to do with the issues in the thread.

And the TSA doesn't prevent a damn thing. Just go research the amount of crap people have gotten through check points with random excuses, etc.

While this may be true on the surface, how many times do you think just the thought of having to go through TSA checkpoints has detered terrorists from targeting airports and planes?

Having the TSA created was far more of a win for the Terrorists after 9/11 than most anything else we did.

You're saying that the creation of the TSA was a win for the terrorists because the TSA is a sign of fear we had that terrorists would attack again, correct? Yes, I agree with that.

Also, have you flown recently? Or ever?

I just got back from New York 3 weeks ago. And yes, I fly often.

 

[Northstar]

At least we know they don't discern when it comes to their victims.

Sadly, this isn't anything new.

 

[Azuremen]

Nice random fact. What does their past schooling have to do with any of the issues in this thread?
You have no evidence that this is true (so yea, double check this). Again, this has nothing to do with the issues in the thread.

Schooling often relates to their ability to preform critical thinking and problem solving on site rather than blindly following procedure, which is what leads to situations as posted above. The less educated someone is for a position like this, the more likely they are to just step through check lists blindly, which doesn't make anything safer.

As for the felons bit, here you go. They can, and do, hire felons depending on the offense.

While this may be true on the surface, how many times do you think just the thought of having to go through TSA checkpoints has detered terrorists from targeting airports and planes?

I'd imagine very little, since the expression "locks keep honest people out" is the best way to think about these kinds of things. Do you have any real evidence to support your claim that the TSA actually deters anything?

You're saying that the creation of the TSA was a win for the terrorists because the TSA is a sign of fear we had that terrorists would attack again, correct? Yes, I agree with that.

The TSA is a win for them not because of the fear we experienced, but because we have sacrificed personal freedoms and privacy under the excuse of security.

I just got back from New York 3 weeks ago. And yes, I fly often.

I am surprised given your attitude. More surprising is someone that can afford to fly often that actually thinks the TSA is doing anything useful.

Oh, and as for having to do nothing with this thread responses, they have entirely to do with your post and the general topic of any thread of this nature - excessive security measures.

 

[Schwartz]

Schooling often relates to their ability to preform critical thinking and problem solving on site rather than blindly following procedure, which is what leads to situations as posted above. The less educated someone is for a position like this, the more likely they are to just step through check lists blindly, which doesn't make anything safer.

Although I am nothing close to an expert on psychology, I don't necesarily think that your decision on weather to further your education by going to college has anything to do with whatever tells you to "blindly" follow a checklist. I'm pretty sure anyone (except for these fools of course)would stop the procedure if an old lady has blood running down her leg. You don't need a college education for judgement skills, that is a natural human skill. Although an education would make TSA have an over all better quality of workers. But of course that is how every job is.

As for the felons bit, here you go. They can, and do, hire felons depending on the offense.

Wow, why do they hire felons? That doesn't seem to make sense if they are dealing with a national security issue.

I'd imagine very little, since the expression "locks keep honest people out" is the best way to think about these kinds of things. Do you have any real evidence to support your claim that the TSA actually deters anything?

The only evidence I need is the fact that there have been no successful terrorist attacks on planes in the United States since 9/11. If I'm wrong, correct me.

The TSA is a win for them not because of the fear we experienced, but because we have sacrificed personal freedoms and privacy under the excuse of security.

Either way, its a win for the terrorists.

I am surprised given your attitude. More surprising is someone that can afford to fly often that actually thinks the TSA is doing anything useful.

I try to respect people's jobs and issues and understand their point of view rather than, for example read this story and automatically side with the writer and the lady just because he is persuasive. I try to be open to all ideas and viewpoints rather than hearing one bit and shutting the rest out. That seems to be the problem with media these days. The news stations are quite biased and censor stories or certain parts of them to make them sound the way they want to make them sound so the audience sides with the news station and watches/ reads more. I would much rather be able to have my own thoughts rather than be a "sheep" and think how the media wants me to. Too many Americans are "sheep" these days, and we are all becoming dumber because of it.

 

[terminator363]

When I was in Frankfurt last summer the people that checked you the gates were freakin' awesome! They laughed and had a good sense of humor! They were so careless yet so enthusiastic; guess what, they were Germans.

 

[Crispy]

The only evidence I need is the fact that there have been no successful terrorist attacks on planes in the United States since 9/11. If I'm wrong, correct me.

That may be true, but there weren't any (If so not constant attacks) before either.

9/11 wasn't so much of a "kill as many as we can" job. It was more aimed at creating a mass panic of America over the years. Things like TSA, the Patriot Act, and the Bill Passed by Congress a couple days ago, are all because of 9/11. This has caused America to go into pandemonium over terrorists.

 

[Schwartz]

That may be true, but there weren't any (If so not constant attacks) before either.

9/11 wasn't so much of a "kill as many as we can" job. It was more aimed at creating a mass panic of America over the years. Things like TSA, the Patriot Act, and the Bill Passed by Congress a couple days ago, are all because of 9/11. This has caused America to go into pandemonium over terrorists.

Yes, this is true, but what are you trying to get at?

 

[RTSolvalou]

If and when I go to the USA, I won't be going by plane until this TSA problem is disposed of.

 

[Azuremen]

Yes, this is true, but what are you trying to get at?

That the terrorists have effectively continued to succeed since 9/11 by making the people scared enough to sacrifice person freedoms and privacy.

 

[Schwartz]

That the terrorists have effectively continued to succeed since 9/11 by making the people scared enough to sacrifice person freedoms and privacy.

LOL I understand but I'm still not sure what point he is trying to make since we already established that that the terrorists were successful for those reasons earlier.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Whenever someone mentions to me something about America "winning the war on terror" since 9/11, I think of the fact that you now have to be x-rayed or have your genitals groped to take advantage of the liberty of free movement by plane.

The American government's reaction to 9/11 (Afghanistan, Iraq, The Patriot Act, and the TSA) has been nothing short of a shameful, complete disaster contrary to the principles laid out by the founding fathers.

Sad how many conservatives are able to rail against big government, but they openly support the government spying on them without merit and the creeping reduction of civil liberties taken on in "war"time.

 

[sumbrownkid]

If and when I go to the USA, I won't be going by plane until this TSA problem is disposed of.

Yeah you won't be coming over here anytime soon...

But truth be told, these types of problems with the TSA are few and far between.

As a Muslim myself, I've no trouble getting through TSA in only a few minutes. It is an annoyance, but I've yet to meet the Bowser of a TSA agent yet.

 

[Swift]

Why are we so afraid to profile people? If someone has been to the middle east, they should be given extra attention. If they are related to a person of interest they should have extra attention. Why is that a problem? I'm not talking what they look like, but where they've been and who they are related to.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^Counter argument to that is usually the slipper slope one.

But it can also be said, if people from the middle east are given extra attention for bombs, then shouldn't people from Latin America receive the same extra attention for drugs?

Besides, people are always gonna throw up the race card.

I personally don't have a problem with an extra screening (I like to show off my glorious body to random people).

 

[Azuremen]

Why are we so afraid to profile people? If someone has been to the middle east, they should be given extra attention. If they are related to a person of interest they should have extra attention. Why is that a problem? I'm not talking what they look like, but where they've been and who they are related to.

Last I read, Israel had a rather solid system for airport security, which used a mix of common sense and profiling, but more about just training security to think a bit more about things rather than checking a list.

 

[Swift]

Last I read, Israel had a rather solid system for airport security, which used a mix of common sense and profiling, but more about just training security to think a bit more about things rather than checking a list.

Yeah, why not? They system is obviously effective.

 

[Crispy]

Mostly because anyone in this country calls someone a racist because they called and African American person black, or a Middle Eastern Middle Eastern, or a white person white, you see what I'm getting at?

Anyone can throw the race card anymore, common sense has been replaced by the so called "Political Correctness". You know why a movie like Indiana Jones: The Temple of Doom wouldn't be released as a movie today because someone would call it racist by profiling Indians as eating Monkey Brains.

Sometimes profiling needs to be done to stop innocent people from being screwed over. In general, the TSA should quit the crap though. I stepped off the foot map and got groped, and swabbed by them. So good being young though, I was able to call them pedophiles and walk away.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

Mostly because anyone in this country calls someone a racist because they called and African American person black, or a Middle Eastern Middle Eastern, or a white person white, you see what I'm getting at?

That's a huge over-generalization and trust me, as a huge stand-up fan I enjoy humour that pushes the limit of what we deem to be socially acceptable.

 

[A2K78]

have you flown recently? Or ever?

I used to fly, but the TSA and nude scanners changed that....

The American government's reaction to 9/11 (Afghanistan, Iraq, The Patriot Act, and the TSA) has been nothing short of a shameful, complete disaster contrary to the principles laid out by the founding fathers.

This is quite true and why? Even in their day the republic still faced many outside threats e.g. unfriendly native american tribes, the presence of british troops on their borders and pirates, yet in no way did the founding fathers restort to erecting a security state(like the bloated one we have) because they knew it was essential to protect and preserve liberty among the colonies. Sadly though in the 21st century fighting terror have become an excuse for literally shreddng the constitution...the end result is an normalizing illegal practices e.g. assassinations, secret prisons, and torture, and a lurch towards the establishment of an actual dictatorship.

Sad how many conservatives are able to rail against big government, but they openly support the government spying on them without merit and the creeping reduction of civil liberties taken on in "war"time.

Take it from someone who formerly used to be on the side of the GOP, I agree with everything you say 100%. In fact just watching the past debates its depressing you literally have candidates(ron paul being the exception) calling for the establishment of nazi-like police state. The fact you have an idiot like Newt Gingrich declaring that america is permanenty in a state of emergency demonstrates this.

Speaking of the patriot act, a well written argument why its no different than hitler's Enabling Act:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/colmes2.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory36.html

 

[Crispy]

That's a huge over-generalization and trust me, as a huge stand-up fan I enjoy humour that pushes the limit of what we deem to be socially acceptable.

Oh that's just the best stuff! A lot of the time the people who do push the limits get ridiculed. I remember John Stewert was branded a racist for making fun of Herman Cain. Of course it was Fox News that called him that, and Donald Trump, so I'm not sure it really counts.

 

[A2K78]

Last I read, Israel had a rather solid system for airport security, which used a mix of common sense and profiling, but more about just training security to think a bit more about things rather than checking a list.

the problem with profiling though, its a form of government discrimination and when governments(no individuals) discriminate it become collectivism. Ultimately though its shame that the american government isn't focusing on the cause of terrorism(in the case of america its foreign policy) but rather inciting fear.

 

[Schwartz]

the problem with profiling though, its a form of government discrimination and when governments(no individuals) discriminate it become collectivism. Ultimately though its shame that the american government isn't focusing on the cause of terrorism(in the case of america its foreign policy) but rather inciting fear.

This is true, but I'd rather have this than terrorists attacks. Its a matter of finding a balance between rights and safety.