Hey PD... Turn the smoke density back down!

[Megamarcx84]

First of all: Predicting is possible WITHOUT view of the person you are tandeming with. Because they will most frankly do the most logical thing and travel in the same direction.

The reacting only comes when there is a view of the other person, untill then, keep to your line and speed, and you will be fine 95% of the time. The other times the collision will not be your fault. (and tbh, if you really dont trust the guy in front of you, drop a bit of speed if it is possible...)

Exactly! With 6 or 7 people in the long tunnel on Grand Valley, it was easy to see people in front and behind me. The times you are actually 100% blinded are very rare.

Well call me a cynic, given my history of working fast food and customer service people rarely do the "logical thing"...what you're describing is more akin to "know the track, follow the line and hope for the best" which is not conducive to someone following in a tandem and trying not to slam in the person in front of them...for a 1x1 battle this is rarely an issue but for long drift trains, unless you're in front or 1-2 cars behind, the smoke is ridiculous and I end up either ramming those in front of me because I rely on track memory and line or basically hanging back until the smoke has dissapated a bit...on top of all this the framerates drop w/ excessive smoke further hampering visual efforts to maintain safe distance from those in front..

Maybe you guys have enjoyed that 95% success rate of drifting in smoke, but a 5% failure rate gets underneath my skin...and regardless of anyones abilities to overcome a deficiency of vision made by gt5s smoke rendering, something still needs to be done because it still isn't accurately portraying the amount and consistency of smoke that cars put out..

 

[twitcher]

Well call me a cynic, given my history of working fast food and customer service people rarely do the "logical thing"...what you're describing is more akin to "know the track, follow the line and hope for the best" which is not conducive to someone following in a tandem and trying not to slam in the person in front of them...for a 1x1 battle this is rarely an issue but for long drift trains, unless you're in front or 1-2 cars behind, the smoke is ridiculous and I end up either ramming those in front of me because I rely on track memory and line or basically hanging back until the smoke has dissapated a bit...on top of all this the framerates drop w/ excessive smoke further hampering visual efforts to maintain safe distance from those in front..

Maybe you guys have enjoyed that 95% success rate of drifting in smoke, but a 5% failure rate gets underneath my skin...and regardless of anyones abilities to overcome a deficiency of vision made by gt5s smoke rendering, something still needs to be done because it still isn't accurately portraying the amount and consistency of smoke that cars put out..

Very well said!

If I am in a train of lets say 10 cars, and I am #9 or 10 in the line, I can not 'anticipate" what all 8 or 9 people in front of me are going to do. If someone near the front of the train makes a slight mistake and scrubs off too much speed, it causes an accordion effect that becomes more intense the farther back in the line you are.

In a competition, if the lead car makes a mistake, which causes the follower to hit him, whatever. Lead car's mistake, follower wins, run over. But in a train, the object is not to win or lose, but rather to keep the train going as long and smooth as possible. Simply relying on everyone else in the train to not make a mistake as you dive into the grey nothingness is not really a great solution IMO.

 

[Lazy Liquid]

I was writing this one hour ago, and probably now there will be more posts in this thread, and maybe what ill say was already said in diferent words, but anyways...

I´m with Megamarcx84 and Twitcher in this one. Lets face, everyone here already drifted with everyone sometime(s), so this is not a thread to point who is good or bad to deal with drifting in the smoke. So any kind of free advice here is is completly unecessary (at least if you know who you´re talking to).

If the "smoke issue" was related only to see the track lines, no big deal, only zooming the map or turning on the racing line would solve the problem mostly. But in fact the problem is that in most of times you can not see who is in front of you after some distance. Because the smoke deepness don´t dissipate, simples as that.

I will give 2 pratical exemples:

1. Lets supose you are in a drift train with 5 people and you are the 4th car. You have the 3rd car´s view, but barely can see the 2nd and the 1st is even harder in most of time. If the 1st or the 2nd for any reason reduce the flow, probably ill not have enough time to predict that and at least ill hit the 2nd or the 5th will hit myself, because his situation will be even worse.

2. 5 cars in the track and they need to regroup after the section. The smoke will be so deep that after the first 2 stops, the others only will not hit by luck.

Both situations happens only because the smoke deepness is enough to hide most of any singnal of any car in front of you. Ok if these issues can be minimized with the minimap plus the racing lines, but i ask... is this the most natural and intuitive way?

Otherwise, i dont like the "slider" idea, for several reasons. What is right is the right... and the right is to fix the smoke deepness and spread depending the speed and wheelspin.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Are you guys... unable to maintain a certain speed through a drift? It sure sounds like you guys can't by what you're saying.

But I see a lot of people in this thread saying "learn to drift in smoke, the smoke in GT5 is just fine"...and that's what I have a problem with. The smoke in GT5 is NOT fine...it is easily one of the most unrealistic aspects of the game right now. IMO anyone that thinks the current smoke model is realistic needs to get their eyes and head checked.

You really don't know how wrong you are. Opaque smoke is the most unrealistic thing in the game? Don't kid yourself.

 

[Megamarcx84]

Are you guys... unable to maintain a certain speed through a drift? It sure sounds like you guys can't by what you're saying.

Maintaining speed is not the issue, its maintaining speed relative to those around you...what it sounds like to me is that there of those of you that engage in "fight choreography" ,you know pre rehearsed moves, and those of us who spar, move accordingly to those around us..absolutely if every maintains a certain speed and everyone around you has mastered the track then drift trains should be as easy as solo runs...I guess the difference is there are those of us that drift w/ people they're not as familiar w/ and so would appreciate a fairer chance to react accordingly

 

[Downhill Dino]

I'll have to say you've explained it quite well. 👍

 

[twitcher]

Are you guys... unable to maintain a certain speed through a drift? It sure sounds like you guys can't by what you're saying.



You really don't know how wrong you are. Opaque smoke is the most unrealistic thing in the game? Don't kid yourself.

First of all, I'm really not sure what your first comment is referring to. Who said anything about having trouble maintaining speed through a drift? Where did that come from?


And secondly, I know I am not wrong. To clarify though, I should have said the smoke is one of the most unrealistic aspects of the visuals of the game. For that, my apologies. However, if you go back an reread the paragraph you quoted, you'll notice that I said it is ONE of the most unrealistic aspects of the game (for argument's sake, lets say somewhere in the top 5), not the single most unrealistic aspect of the entire game...


Edit: removed some sort of rude stuff after realizing it was just a misunderstanding.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Oops. I'm watching TV at the same time so predictably my word recognition goes down. Sorry about that. However, I think it is by far a minor unrealistic feature.

First of all, I'm really not sure what your first comment is referring to. Who said anything about having trouble maintaining speed through a drift? Where did that come from? If you really think that's what people here have been saying, then your comprehension skills are a little lacking.

I was inferring. I inferred that because you guys had said that the smoke causes you to ram the person in front of you or ruin your own pace due to worrying about others' positions.

 

[Bluntified]

Yep, lack of flow. Some people worry too much about the cars around them that they don't worry about themselves. If everyone drove like they do on the road by worrying about themselves rather than solely on surroundings, they'd be better drivers on GT. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying not to watch other cars just focus on what your doing and everyone will be fine.

Note, this has to do with tandeming all together.

 

[Lazy Liquid]

Yep, lack of flow. Some people worry too much about the cars around them that they don't worry about themselves. If everyone drove like they do on the road by worrying about themselves rather than solely on surroundings, they'd be better drivers on GT. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying not to watch other cars just focus on what your doing and everyone will be fine.

Note, this has to do with tandeming all together.

In a perfect world, where everyone would drive the same cars with the same settings, and nobody missed a single cliping point or choosed the wrong gear at the wrong place or even never missed a manji tandem adjustment betwen a corner to another... yeah, i would not be worried with the whole train flow.

But fortunaly this is a real world with real person, where nobody drifts like robots, where the phone rings, your wife/girfriend/mom goes agro on you while you´re playing, your dog barks, and so on...

 

[twitcher]

Oops. I'm watching TV at the same time so predictably my word recognition goes down. Sorry about that. However, I think it is by far a minor unrealistic feature.

It's all good, I've done that before too. I guess we have a difference of opinion on that issue, but that's ok.

I was inferring. I inferred that because you guys had said that the smoke causes you to ram the person in front of you or ruin your own pace due to worrying about others' positions.

I think MegaMarc explained it pretty well. Basically, ya, if everyone in the train nails their line perfectly, then it's all gravy baby, you have nothing to worry about. His analogy of "fight choreography vs sparing" is a good way of explaining it.

 

[Bluntified]

In a perfect world, where everyone would drive the same cars with the same settings, and nobody missed a single cliping point or choosed the wrong gear at the wrong place or even never missed a manji tandem adjustment betwen a corner to another... yeah, i would not be worried with the whole train flow.

But fortunaly this is a real world with real person, where nobody drifts like robots, where the phone rings, your wife/girfriend/mom goes agro on you while you´re playing, your dog barks, and so on...

I know its the real world and stuff happens, that's what I use the grass on the side for, no one gets interrupted and I (or whoever) can do what I want to do. When my baby cries, I have time to pull out and get to her and everyone's still going. Plus, after like 5 laps or so its break time.

PS, when the phone rings, the wife answers

 

[Lazy Liquid]

I know its the real world and stuff happens, that's what I use the grass on the side for, no one gets interrupted and I (or whoever) can do what I want to do. When my baby cries, I have time to pull out and get to her and everyone's still going. Plus, after like 5 laps or so its break time.

PS, when the phone rings, the wife answers

Oh i forgot to mention: The freaking lag.
Yesterday i was at Nemesis Nightslide (16 cars simultaneously) and i got traped by frozen cars sometimes, ruining beautifull chases. It was simply impossible to maintain a fluid latency between all cars for every second. I´m not blaming the smoke for eventual crashes on this situation, but maybe a less opaque smoke could minimize the chance of acident when something goes weirdo in front of you.

 

[Bluntified]

The lag gets me too sometimes, we can't blame that on visibility though I gotta admit, I was in a room earlier and we were running deep forest, I don't know the track 100% for drifting and the smoke was crazy. I didn't mind it though, we just took it easy and maintained a speed.

 

[kidovey]

2. 5 cars in the track and they need to regroup after the section. The smoke will be so deep that after the first 2 stops, the others only will not hit by luck.
.

Oh my god after all this time you've finally found a food way to explain what you/we are saying in the last few posts and this simplifies it for anyone.

Another Example: 8 cars try and turn round in the tunnel at grand valley and don't hit each other!

 

[JR86]

The smoke is an issue on some tracks but the reason I prefer to lead tandems now was because back when I joined D1NZ rooms I waited to lead the drift train to show off my drifting and to also e able to see where I was going. Smoke is only an issue if your about 5 or so car lengths behind another car as thats where the smoke seems to be at it's thickest and at its most.

 

[calico]

Because, I realize that some people might like the smoke as dense as it is, and some don't. Best resolution to this issue, is to have the user set what level they prefer in the options. That way, everyone is happy.

Honestly, it seriously annoys me.

ShortAznGuy, do you have more pics?

Just have an on off switch then, then you can see all the track and all the car in front so no grumbles.
Some people are never happy may be have smoke off except for replays

 

[GTPLam]

lol the smoke in GT5 reminds me of the smoke grenade in Counter-Strike 1.6 when playing at a low resolution. The smoke texture is just unrealistic and it doesn't blend in well with the rest of the graphics almost like the contrast between the environment and smoke stand out too much between the two that it's so obvious. The amount of smoke is too sensitive as well compared to the smoke in GT4HD and GT5P

btw the graphics are so much better in GT4HD and GT5P considerably than in GT5

 

[MrSwagg]

There should be a smoke density option, 0-100%. That way everybody will be happy. I'm sure not everyone is happy having to follow nothing but a gamer tag because the smoke is so blinding lol.

 

[SPANK]

I say quit complaining!

 

[Megamarcx84]

I say quit complaining!

I say that's called giving up. Isn't complaint the main catalyst behind change in general? If people would've simply "stopped complaining" ,next week would've probably been GT5's release date..
Standard interiors, standard wheel changes, periodic updates, all resulted from complaints...are some complaints fruitless, yes indeed; but that shouldn't encourage everyone that has an issue w/ the game to simply bend over and apply the KY. We don't work for PD, so it's not like we can drop our issues in a suggestion box on Kaz's desk. We complain, and hopefully enough of us complain to make PD take notice and update the game, or at the very least make sure that GT6 is the best game possible.

I guess what I don't understand is, if there are those that don't have a problem w/ the smoke density as is, what is the major cripe about PD addressing an issue that other people may have? Is it sour grapes because you feel that if the smoke density is more transparent, that you'll lose your competitive edge or something?

 

[twitcher]

This ^^^. Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. It's disheartening how constructive conversation about how to improve an aspect of the game is automatically labelled as complaining.

"complaints" are how the fans of GT have managed to get many different aspects added to the game...going all the way back to the original GT. Aftermarket wheels, spoilers, real world tracks...the list goes on and on...all additions that started from fans "complaining"

 

[SPANK]

First people complain there isn't smoke now they complain there is too much. Enjoy the real aspect of the game....the physics

 

[Megamarcx84]

First people complain there isn't smoke now they complain there is too much. Enjoy the real aspect of the game....the physics

Isn't how light travels a form of physics?
And I think I (and others) have made it clear that this aspect of the physics represented w/in the game is what's preventing us from fully enjoying the other physical aspects of the game. Nobody is complaining about the amount of smoke, the complaint is about the transparency of said smoke. Its not realistic at all..it is quite blinding. If it doesn't bother you, that's great too; that means it will bother you even less when it is more transparent.

 

[SPANK]

Isn't how light travels a form of physics?
And I think I (and others) have made it clear that this aspect of the physics represented w/in the game is what's preventing us from fully enjoying the other physical aspects of the game. Nobody is complaining about the amount of smoke, the complaint is about the transparency of said smoke. Its not realistic at all..it is quite blinding. If it doesn't bother you, that's great too; that means it will bother you even less when it is more transparent.

Have you been behind a car putting of good smoke and try to see in transition?

 

[Megamarcx84]

Have you been behind a car putting of good smoke and try to see in transition?

I've been behind cars doing stationary burnouts that don't put out as dense smoke as GT5 does...

 

[SPANK]

Tire smoke depends on the size of the tire and the speed its traveling

 

[Lazy Liquid]